Deadly Creatures Review

By Dan Whitehead Published 18 February, 2009

Buggin' out.

Version tested: Wii

It doesn't speak too highly of the innovative thinking in the games industry that a simple cosmetic makeover can spark talk of originality and freshness. Deadly Creatures is a third-person action-adventure, with a heavy emphasis on melee fighting. It just happens to have a tarantula and a scorpion as its heroes, instead of a cyborg space marine ninja avenging the murder of his twin brother who was also a wizard.

To begin with, at least, the change in perspective is compelling enough to make up for the rather threadbare construction. Alternating between the tarantula and scorpion, you explore your desert environment, occasionally fighting against each other as well as local predators, munching on crickets and grubs to top up your health afterwards. Each objective met, and each enemy slain, earns you points which unlock new moves when your total hits certain preset points.

The scorpion is able to dig through cracked earth and slash through dry weeds. The spider can jump over lower obstacles and travel from one web to another in a bungee-cord fashion. Both are able to stick to walls, provided there's a gentle slope up to them, and this freedom from the horizontal makes exploration an entertaining prospect during the early stages.

The mo-capped animation on both lead creatures is appropriately creepy and realistic, and scuttling them through the well-rendered, dusty micro-universe they inhabit throws up plenty of grim surprises. A family of spiders skitters from a crack in the belly of a forlorn garden gnome. A subterranean insect lair is illuminated by the glow from a lost mobile phone. In one particularly memorable scene you realise that you've crawled into a coffin, and must travel up, over and through the desiccated bones of the poor wretch whose final resting place you've accidentally invaded.

'Deadly Creatures' Screenshot 1

The game throws up some lovely scenery, it's just a shame it falls apart once things start moving.

The game even boasts an unusual, and rather effective, approach to storytelling. As you're scurrying about around this small patch of desert, you sporadically encounter a pair of humans voiced by Billy Bob Thornton and Dennis Hopper. They're clearly up to no good, and while you're often encountering their story from afar - and almost entirely through audio rather than visuals - it spins into a fairly clever yarn with some great moments of humour. There's more than a touch of the classic Tales From The Crypt comics to the way their grisly saga unfolds, and you'll look soon be looking forward to each new eavesdropped snippet of dialogue.

Sadly, by the time the game reaches the halfway point of its ten short stages, the quirky concept is no longer enough to make up for some fairly grievous problems with the game engine. The camera is a wayward thing, making the game's topsy-turvy levels a chore to navigate, especially in close quarters, while the free-look system feels sticky and awkward. The way ahead is often obscured just beyond the limitations of your view, and you're frequently reduced to holding down the 2 button to call up a giant arrow directing you through the game. On more than one occasion, both spider and scorpion dropped through the scenery and became trapped, forcing a restart.

Collision detection is also inconsistent, and with enemies that flicker, lurch and break through the solid geometry of the level with worrying frequency, the core fighting elements only become more frustrating as your foes become tougher. Reactions to your motion commands feel sluggish, and many of the later combat moves are practically worthless, requiring charge-up periods or combinations of buttons and movements that the game rarely gives you time to employ.

'Deadly Creatures' Screenshot 2

Telling a story through eavesdropping creepy crawlies is a weird idea, but it works.

As the combat breaks down, the game starts taking cheap shots wherever possible. Enemies unleash block-breaking attacks that take off huge chunks of health, or use combo strings that leave little room for retaliation. Played on anything more than the easiest setting, the combat soon becomes incredibly annoying as the simple bugs of the early stages give way to rats, lizards and hornets that hover out of reach, only offering themselves up for damage for short periods of time. Helplessly flailing as your health is whittled down yet again by attacks you're seemingly unable to avoid or repel, the novelty of the setting soon wears thin. Boss battles, on the other hand, are simplistic affairs based around flashing weak spots and QTE sequences.

This brief and clunky Adventure Mode is all the game has to offer. There are no multiplayer options, no additional entertainments to unlock. Gobbling up the squirming grubs that litter the stages will grant you six galleries of concept art - ooh, thanks - but that's not nearly enough incentive to justify the exploration required to find all 405 of the squirmy blighters.

Deadly Creatures has an intriguing premise, and makes a strong first impression with its shudder-inducing animation and cute environmental details. That may be enough to curry favour with Wii owners starved of action games, but over the long haul the scariest thing about these critters is how shoddily constructed they are.

4 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
Picture of Dan.

About Dan Whitehead

Dan has been writing for Eurogamer since 2006 and specialises in RPGs, shooters and games for children. His bestest game ever is Julian Gollop's Chaos.

Read more articles from Dan by visiting the Dan Whitehead archive page.

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Comments (142) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Svecke #1 3 years ago

    Aw, I really wanted this to be good... ._.

  • Eraser #2 3 years ago

    This is a real shame. I was hoping for this to be good.

  • Charlie_Miso #3 3 years ago

    That bad eh? Bummer.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #4 3 years ago

    I was never too interested in this in the first place but it's still a pity that it's not living up to what this could have been. Sounds like this needed a bit more time.

  • Darren #5 3 years ago

    The game sounds really intriguing and different but it's a shame the developers weren't able to pull it off.

  • MyPointIs #6 3 years ago

    But it has too may bugs!

    Well ... duh!

  • figaro7 #7 3 years ago

    You can adjust the sensitivity of the wiimote in the options if you think it doesnt respond well enough... Theres also 450 grubs but thats prob a typo, it looks like you wrote this review just as quick as you whiped through this game, its far better than a 4, at least a 7.

  • Tonka #8 3 years ago

    What I thought. And the mo-cap video is most definitely a viral.

  • DonnieDarko333 #9 3 years ago

    No way! The first eurogamer review I totally disagree with! It's worth at least a 7 or 8, very very harsh!

  • dingo75 #10 3 years ago

    First game I could consider buying a Wii for (with Mad World at the horizon)!
    Think you are too harsh this time EG.
    I think they should get extra points for being a Third Party non-shovelware product!

  • Krelle #11 3 years ago

    Couldnt care less about the score. (In fact, I havnt checked yet.)

    But dont put animals with lots o legs on frontpage :c Very ivul.

  • Xerx3s #12 3 years ago

    Wait, run this by me, people who have never played the game are telling someone who has played the game that he is wrong? lol?

  • andrewwd #13 3 years ago

    The first half of that review had me wishing I hadn't sold my Wii. This sounds like it could have been brilliant.

  • MORZTAN #14 3 years ago

    I saw this coming from 3.7 miles away. This game has looked nothing but horrible. How anyone could expect it to be even remotely good, is beyond me.

    Now. Wait for The Conduit's 6/10...

  • dr_faulk #15 3 years ago

    I hate when reviews of unkown games stary off positive, cause I know there's a bag of disappointment at the end.

  • rhubarbandcustard #16 3 years ago

    wiiLOL

  • Nikanoru #17 3 years ago

    Well... if I look at the Eurogamer review <a href=http://www.metacritic.com/game s/platforms/wii/deadlycreatures?q=deadly%20creatures> waaaay at the bottom there</a> I think I'm gonna disregard that score and buy the game anyway. Although of course I fully support EG's right to score independently of what anyone else thinks. Good to have some perspective.


    I saw this coming from 3.7 miles away. This game has looked nothing but horrible. How anyone could expect it to be even remotely good, is beyond me.

    Wow, really? TBH it's beyond me how anyone could hate it so much just based on screenshots and impressions. Is it because "lol you're a bug in this game, it must be bad"? Or is it something else?

  • Rirekon #18 3 years ago

    @Xerx3s; About par for the course around here :(

    Pity about the game though, it looked like it could be really good fun.

  • Raya #19 3 years ago

    Haven't you realised yet it's EG and a Wii review. That means instant point removal. The site that said RE4 on Wii had poor controls!

    Seriously I don't trust EG's reviews any more. They're far too busy making puns and are wildly off compared to other review sites in general. Metacritic seems the best way to get an idea on a game (7/10)
    Edited by 1 at 18/02/09 @ 09:31

  • Xerx3s #20 3 years ago

    Raya: I've got your tin foil hat here.

  • mikeck #21 3 years ago

    This sounded very promising at the start of the review, but it does sound like another game that just gets it wrong halfway through, shame, looked like an intriguing title too. I'm sure one of my Wii-owning mates will get this, so I'll give it a go at some point.

  • MORZTAN #22 3 years ago

    @Nikanoru

    "Is it because "lol you're a bug in this game, it must be bad"? Or is it something else? "

    It's 24 years of gaming across practically every platform released. You get a nose for these things :)

  • jaguarwong #23 3 years ago

    It's always intriguing to read a review that makes complaints that you don't see in others.

    The majority of reviews of this game have described the combat as nothing less than satisfying, a couple saying it carries the game all by itself, so it's odd to read the opinion that's it's unbalanced/broken.

    Though I don't see this as a sign that EG is adopting the same bad attitude towards Wii games that other sites (I'm looking at you 1up) have - it's just that this review is a little out there on it's own right now. (Edge gave an unfavourable write up but for different reasons I believe.)

    Like I say: Intriguing.

  • ZuluHero #24 3 years ago

    Another sham! Even with EG and EDGE with their stupidly inconsistent views, this game is still averaging 72% on meta.

    I really enjoyed this game. The atmosphere, SFX and production values are really good, and the level design is really clever. I loved the way that the levels all twisted and turned interlocking with themselves and each other, giving the player the very distinct feeling that they are one of these creatures. I also liked the way that they progressed logically with the plot, starting out in the desert with very little evidence of human impact on the environment - to more and more discarded and lost artefacts the closer you get to the human settlement. Of course being at the vantage point of a lowly spider or scorpion – a lot of the human stuff isn't immediately apparent. And it leads to a lot of, "What the hell?!" moments – shortly followed by an, "Ahh - i see!", and it really helps to drive you forwards, as each interesting thing you find makes you want to reveal what it is – even if it turns out to be the most mundane human object.

    The story, although simple, is told in a very interesting way (and tbh too many games these days have stupidly convoluted plots and scenarios), and Billy Bob and Dennis Hopper really help to make the world more believable, even with their hackneyed hillbilly accents. There are quite a few different stories going on here, that all culminate toward the end. The Spider, The Scorpion, The humans - hell even the snake...

    The camera is no way as bad as the reviewer makes out. Given the fact that we are dealing with tiny creatures here that can crawl around on walls and ceilings (as well as floors), it copes remarkably well. The only bug that i found (and not the good creepy crawling kind! :p) was that sometimes the camera would get snagged on the environment, but this was only during combat due to the auto-lock on, and was few and far between...

    The only other thing that lets it down is its length, the game must have taken me about 5-6 hours and i completed it in about 2 sittings. Even though, i was enthralled throughout, and found myself struggling to put the pad down and go to bed, promising myself to do so st the "next save point".

    A 4 is a travesty. A 7 is more realistic.
    Edited by 2 at 18/02/09 @ 10:03

  • the_dudefather #25 3 years ago

    more games were you play as animals please

    where are my 'savage bear em up' games?
    Edited by 1 at 18/02/09 @ 10:10

  • jimboton #26 3 years ago

    I may be wrong, but I think at least part of the problem is that the game simply proved too challenging for EG's staff dwindling patience. These days they are much more confortable with the likes of Fable II or even [link url=
    http:// www.eurogamer.net/articles/mystery-p-i-portrait-of-a-thief-a mazing-adventures-the-lost-tomb-review]Mystery P.I. Portrait of a Thief[/link]

    In one particularly memorable scene you realise that you've crawled into a coffin, and must travel up, over and through the desiccated bones of the poor wretch whose final resting place you've accidentally invaded
    Thanks for the spoiler Dan!

  • DanWhitehead #27 3 years ago

    That's not a spoiler, it's in one of the very first levels.

  • Fidjit #28 3 years ago

    @Dan - mocapping invertebrae is still some way off I'm afraid :p

  • Xerx3s #29 3 years ago

    There have been many games that have big plot twists in the first levels.

  • Rob #30 3 years ago

    Interestingly enough, I emalied the Eurogamer folks early yesterday asking why they hadn't reviewed this. I got no reply, so took a punt and went out and picked it up (it's cheap in Asda right now)...

    IMO, it's an easy 7-8. I'm actually very impressed by the graphics for a Wii title, and it's obviously had a lot of care and attention spent on it by the developers. The title screen alone can occupy me for ages, especially if you let it run. I'm at Chapter 5 right now and really don't see a lot of their complaints. The camera does occasionally struggle sure, but it's certainly nothing to go mental over given the fact that you can crawl anywhere. I'm also finding the combat to be particularly rewarding - the motion controls that are used, are used well, and the game really doesn't reward recklessness. How telling that the reviewer took to 'hapless flailing' instead of rethinking their strategy for that particular enemy? Also, lots of games give away artwork as an unlockable, why is it such a crime in this title all of a sudden?

    Summary: It's their opinion of course, but that review strikes me as being cranked out in a hurry and really criticises some aspects of the game way out of proportion. I'd certainly not hesitate to recommend it to anyone with a Wii anyway.

  • Wastelander #31 3 years ago

    I don't recall an Ocean game on the 48k but there was " Spider: The Game" on the Playstation ;)

  • Dan234 #32 3 years ago

    @Garo

    Sigh... another Wii failure :(
    What's next? Conduit 5/10? Mad World 6/10?

    There's something wrong with EG's review if almost everyone else is giving it either a 7 or 8.

    The scenery is brown enough, maybe the insects should be armed with huge autofiring guns.

  • Fletche #33 3 years ago

    Really don't understand this review. Never had a problem with the camera, not once have I had a non-response to my actions with the motion controls. The battles are fun and stratigic the further along you get and there is none of this flailing around in panic. Atmosphere is excellent and everything looks great. The review just sounds like it is written from someone who was simply not very good at the game. Easily a 7, never going to change the world and is fun and entertaining, only downside is that it feels a little empty at times.

  • JayScott #34 3 years ago

    @ rhubarbandcustard

    Once again an insightful and intelligent comment on the game/system being discussed. You post like a ninja.

    Anyway, this has received pretty decent reviews around the place, and seems worth a second look at least. I quite enjoy the Wii's original IP work, even though there's not that much of it (outside of mini games etc). Will probably grab this.

  • Agent_Llama #35 3 years ago

    Am definitely going to pick this up at some point when I have less pressing games to occupy me (ie. the delightful Chrono Trigger). From the comments it sounds like Dan was in a baaaad mood when he reviewed this, rather like Ellie's misguided 100 Classic Books review...

  • Sean.Aaron #36 3 years ago

    I'm really disappointed in this review; it's clear from the quality of the writing and the content that it's a rushed collection of negative first impressions from someone who clearly didn't click with the game or give it enough time.

    The character animations are impressive; the analogue control is put to excellent use with the full range of movement seen. My tarantula or scorpion can creep as cautiously as the protagonist of any David Attenborough creepy crawly on tv.

    Combat is quite satisfying due to the variety and AI of the opponents. The fact that you have to use different strategies for different opponents is a good thing and keeps the game from being a tedious series of button-mashing contests. Any camera issues are few and far between and glitches rather than repeated bugs. I've had one occasion of camera snag that lasted for several seconds; replaying that section I couldn't reproduce it.

    Definitely one to considered based upon more than one review; I'll probably do my own by the end of the week as I'm at the halfway point now.

  • Rob #37 3 years ago

    One other point I just want to make:

    "There are no multiplayer options"

    Are Eurogamer seriously suggesting that every game should now include some kind of multiplayer option even if it makes absolutely no sense at all with regards to the main thrust of the title? It's absurd comments like this that lead to 'box-ticking' game design/development of the worse possible kind.

  • schnide #38 3 years ago

    **Nintendo Wii in underpowered game shocker**

  • JayScott #39 3 years ago

    **Wanker internet poster in schnide dig at Wii shocker**
    Edited by 3 at 18/02/09 @ 11:52

  • Eraysor #40 3 years ago

    Some of the ideas in this game are brilliant. I hope the sequel improves it enough for me to buy it.

  • schnide #41 3 years ago

    @JayScott

    You're totally right to call me on this! Which part would you dispute first exactly, that the Wii's underpowered, or that it's a surprise to anyone?

    Oh hang on, I see you've made a habit of replying to anyone who criticies the Wii. I think it's safe to deduce that you are, in fact, a Wii owner. Little bit touchy about your Gamecube with a magic wand add-on are we? A nice game of pretend bowling not calming you down?

  • rhubarbandcustard #42 3 years ago

    JayScott:

    WiiLOL - Two seconds to post, but a whole mornings worth of Nintendo fanboi angst


    Wii - shaming the gaming community since 2006

  • canIdoyabombsforya #43 3 years ago

    Oh well, back to Mario Kart online then, who's going to beat Mick from France in Feb Comp 2 ?

  • FogHeart #44 3 years ago

    Another communal crotch flaying/borked resi controls moment?

    I think I'm going to start taking their Wii reviews with a pinch of salt. If the purpose of a low-scoring review is to warn their readers off buying a game, looks like they're failing at their jobs.

  • JayScott #45 3 years ago

    *sigh*

    No, I just find it vaguely irritating that the wii bashers - and whatever, there's a BUNCH of shit on the console, I'm aware of that (as there was on the PS2) - don't even take the time to contribute in any meaningful way to the discussion about the pros and cons of the console or various software released for it. But feel free to continue to be wankers if you like. I own all three major consoles (and both principal handhelds), and all of them have a bunch of shit released for them. But all three have quality experiences as well. Listening to the way you cocksuckers invade every wii comments thread with BRILLIANT stuff like 'lolwii' you'd think the console had arse-raped your mother to the tunes of wii music with a wiimote while your father watched.

    @ rhubardandcockstard

    No, no fanboy angst, just irritation at your absolute inability to contribute meaningfully to discussions, and your continued obsession with clogging up threads with bullshit posts like that. And no, I'm not going to hit ignore, because I honestly believe it's your responsibility to improve your posting, not mine to ignore you.

    Anyway, I'm off to play Chrono Trigger.
    Edited by 4 at 18/02/09 @ 13:06

  • Progguitarist #46 3 years ago

    Another Wii turd and still the machine has strong sales. Its amazing with a little promise and a lot of suggestion can do.

    Great review by the way, having played the game at a friends house I couldnt agree more.

  • FogHeart #47 3 years ago

    Forget it, JayScott, there's no winning here. We've seen enough posts like yours where the only reply is something along the lines of :-

    "I don't need to put forward any reasoned arguments.....



    ...it's a WII game."

  • schnide #48 3 years ago

    You don't acknowledge that the Wii is in a unique situation? That it's absurdly underpowered, and that if it didn't appeal to the mass-market with it's dumb-downed simplicity then it would be dead in the water? The PS2, despite some comparions, wasn't in anywhere near the same situation. It's continously incredulous that this is the situation we're in as gamers.

    You call us wankers and cocksuckers, and then say it's my job to improve my posting? Personally, I'd rather just ignore you. You know, like gamers are ignoring the Wii because the games just aren't good enough to compete.

    And if my mother takes an arse-raping she's got far more self-respect than to get it from Wii Music. Besides, isn't that game too busy fucking Miyamoto's reputation in the arse?

  • stevetuck #49 3 years ago

    i bought the game :) find it quite fun tbh... shame street fighter 4 got here this morning

    cheesy jpop

  • Dan234 #50 3 years ago

    It's continously incredulous that this is the situation we're in as gamers.

    There are two other consoles, I'm not sure why the third one which you don't own and evidently has games you're not interested in is such a problem for you unless you're part of some kind of hardcore gamer Stasi dedicated to uncovering casual gamers.

  • Colonelkurtz #51 3 years ago

    Wow, that's a low character considering you actually gave the idea and execution some praise. Considering Alone in the Dark got an 7 i'm gonna avoid this like the plague.

  • schnide #52 3 years ago

    I have a fondness for Nintendo. They used to be a company I really respected.

    Who said the Wii has games I'm not interested in? Unfortunately, the ones I am interested in have last-gen graphics and rely on a motion sensor that doesn't sense motion properly.

    The Wii's a bit shit when you compare it to what you could be playing, and I struggle to understand why people have such a hard time admitting that. I'm not going to use the F word but seriously, how about you just stop taking it personally and accept it?

  • Rob #53 3 years ago

    Seems like not everyone inside Eurogamer has the same opinion of this one...

    http://ww w.eurogamer.it/articles/deadly-...

  • JahB #54 3 years ago

    There are two other consoles, I'm not sure why the third one which you don't own and evidently has games you're not interested in is such a problem for you unless you're part of some kind of hardcore gamer Stasi dedicated to uncovering casual gamers.

    it is a problem for owners of the other 2 consoles, because it drastically reduces the number of potentioally good games released. the development of a wii game (even though dev cycles are short) wastes the time of people that could actually be out there, making good games.

    you want an example? shigeru miyamoto. the man used to make some of the best games around, and now all he does is turn out crap, largely due to the fact that he's working on a very weak piece of hardware that comes bundled with what is probably the worst control system we've ever seen on a console. just imagine a new mario or zelda game on a machine like the 360/PS3 - pure win. but instead, we got Wii Music.

  • schnide #55 3 years ago

    @JahB

    +1

  • ChrisS #56 3 years ago

    A 4 is incredibly harsh. And the combat's not actually that difficult - it's a case of learning attack patterns and responding accordingly, not just about flailing away. It's too short, and it's a pity there's not more aside from the story mode, but I'd be looking at giving this at least a 6 if not a low 7.

    Re: the camera issue, I think in general it does remarkably well considering the complexity of some of the level layouts (as the spider you can climb up walls and upside down, for example). But when it does go wrong, it does spazz out quite spectacularly.

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife #57 3 years ago

    just imagine a new mario or zelda game on a machine like the 360/PS3 - pure win. but instead, we got Super Mario Galaxy, one of the best reviewed, best selling, most fun game experiences this generation.

    fixed

    ;)
    Edited by 1 at 18/02/09 @ 15:03

  • Dan234 #58 3 years ago

    The Wii's a bit shit when you compare it to what you could be playing, and I struggle to understand why people have such a hard time admitting that. I'm not going to use the F word but seriously, how about you just stop taking it personally and accept it?

    I research the games I buy before I buy them and more often than not, I like them. Is that taking it personally? What am I supposed to admit to? What games should I be enjoying? Please help me here...

    When one website gives a game 4 and most give it 7 or 8, something's evidently up with the review which gives the game 4, especially when their reasons for marking the game down are not shared by the other reviews.

    it is a problem for owners of the other 2 consoles, because it drastically reduces the number of potentioally good games released. the development of a wii game (even though dev cycles are short) wastes the time of people that could actually be out there, making good games.

    you want an example? shigeru miyamoto. the man used to make some of the best games around, and now all he does is turn out crap, largely due to the fact that he's working on a very weak piece of hardware that comes bundled with what is probably the worst control system we've ever seen on a console. just imagine a new mario or zelda game on a machine like the 360/PS3 - pure win. but instead, we got Wii Music.

    Putting controller complaints aside (you either find it intuitive, or you 'unlearn' the pre-existing ideas you have about using controllers, or you hate it and refuse to use it), it was a concious decision of Nintendo to expand the market because if they didn't they'd have been bankrupt by now. Unlike Microsoft and Sony they can't carry on in the same direction and burn cash from other business units to get there. Their only choice was to expand the market and make a profitable console on hardware sales alone, and this they did.

    And given that Nintendo only make games for Nintendo consoles, no matter what Miyamoto does it doesn't affect you because you've got a different console as you're not interested in Nintendo's new direction.

    Maybe you could explain how Mario Galaxy should have turned out 'on a machine like the 360/PS3'. Obviously the great legendary games developer is past his prime and it's up to you to pick up where he left off. Let's hear your ideas.

  • JeffGerstmann #59 3 years ago

    OHHH MY GOOOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I HAVEN'T READ THE REVIEW AND I DON'T THINK I WILL BE ABLE TO

  • schnide #60 3 years ago

    When one website gives a game 4 and most give it 7 or 8, something's evidently up with the review which gives the game 4, especially when their reasons for marking the game down are not shared by the other reviews.

    You are talking of a Wii conspiracy to take the piss out of yourself, and I claim my £5.

  • electrolite #61 3 years ago

    @rhubarbandcustard

    Having seen a foot-stamping, dummy-spitting post of yours on a previous Comments thread, your 'shaming the gaming community' thread is actually beyond irony into a whole place that would need a new word to describe

    @schnide

    "You know, like gamers are ignoring the Wii because the games just aren't good enough to compete" Careful with the generalisations chief. Sure it's had a bad few months since Smash Bros, albeit nowhere near as bad as some of the anti-Wii obsessives make out but there is good stuff on it. I'm 32, been playing games for over 20 years and am more than happy with it, especially as it didn't need me to buy a new TV to get the best out of it (a factor in the machine's success often, bizarrely, completely overlooked)

    @JahB

    "it is a problem for owners of the other 2 consoles, because it drastically reduces the number of potentioally (sic) good games released" How exactly? People keep saying this, and yet there are still floods of games being released for 360/PS3. A couple of years ago it seemed possible that this would happen, but it simply hasn't, thankfully

  • JahB #62 3 years ago

    @Dan234:
    I don't find the controls intuitive, and it has nothing to do with unlearning old stuff. From a technical standpoint, the Wii's motion sensing ability (and with that its entire control system) is of very poor quality, and even if you love your Wii you can't possibly deny that.

    As for Mario Galaxy - ingenious design, but please don't tell me that the everything that had to do with motion-sensing didn't feel painfully tacked on. The unfortunate truth here is that that Mario Galaxy would have been a lot better than it was, had it been designed for a proper console. You're asking me how it would have turned out on 360/PS3? Imagine Mario64, quite possibly the best platform game ever made, and then add to that the technical possibilites available today. I'm well aware of the fact that Miyamoto works for Nintendo only, but imagine Nintendo had made a console like the other 2 did. Nintendo would have less money by now, but their catalogue would quite probably be second to none.

    I hear you on Nintendo's marketing concept, but I don't quite agree; yes they had to come up with something new, but they weren't forced to sell the audience that kept them afloat for the past 20 years down the river for it. Even with the weak technology present in the Wii, they could have tried to churn out some quality games. But they didn't, and gave us piles of shovelware instead; and following this trend, you get games like Deadly Creatures. Which also might have been quite good, had it been done on a high-end machine.

  • Binny #63 3 years ago

    The game is bloody good guys, I'm currently playing it. Eurogame have no idea - shit review for a Wii game as usual. Eurogamer is prob one of the worst for reviews on the web, if you want to get the correct idea about this game then check out more experienced game site like, IGN, Gamespy etc.

    Honestly the person that reviewed this only sounds like he has played the first level. Fucking moron

  • Stompy #64 3 years ago

    @anonymous anti-Wii troll #232,109: "The unfortunate truth here is that that Mario Galaxy would have been a lot better than it was, had it been designed for a proper console. You're asking me how it would have turned out on 360/PS3? Imagine Mario64, quite possibly the best platform game ever made, and then add to that the technical possibilites available today."

    I believe that the Gamecube was arguably more graphically powerful than the PS2?
    I also believe that Super Mario Sunshine, on the Gamecube, can be said to be a graphically improved Mario64 in a new setting etc.?

    Yet consensus has it that Galaxy>Sunshine in all areas.

    Nintendo did the whole powerful console thing. It failed pretty miserably. So now they are courting new 'casual' gamers or older ex-geek gamers who don't need the hassle anymore. Sorry that you are not one of them, and enjoy your achievement points.

  • smelly #65 3 years ago

    1) Lack of adverts for this game any where on this site
    2) Not a fps game

    - yip score was expected.

  • JahB #66 3 years ago

    Nintendo did the whole powerful console thing. It failed pretty miserably. So now they are courting new 'casual' gamers or older ex-geek gamers who don't need the hassle anymore. Sorry that you are not one of them, and enjoy your achievement points.

    oh yeah, i forgot. were the SNes and the N64 (both very powerful consoles in their days) miserable failures as well? And what hassles are you speaking of? Plus, your description of Nintendo's target audience is very charming, but unfortunately just another way of saying this:

    So now they are courting new 'casual' gamers or older ex-geek gamers who can't tell quality from shovelware.

  • Dan234 #67 3 years ago

    @schnide

    You are talking of a Wii conspiracy to take the piss out of yourself, and I claim my £5.

    No I'm not, I'm talking about a poor score without sufficient justification. The majority of reviews give it 7-8 (see Metacritic). As someone else comented, EG.it liked it enough and gave it a 7.

    @JahB

    I don't find the controls intuitive, and it has nothing to do with unlearning old stuff. From a technical standpoint, the Wii's motion sensing ability (and with that its entire control system) is of very poor quality, and even if you love your Wii you can't possibly deny that.

    Well haven't had any problems with e.g. Wii Sports, Metroid Prime 3, World of Goo, Mario Galaxy, Boom Blox, etc...

    The unfortunate truth here is that that Mario Galaxy would have been a lot better than it was, had it been designed for a proper console. You're asking me how it would have turned out on 360/PS3? Imagine Mario64, quite possibly the best platform game ever made, and then add to that the technical possibilites available today.

    Still confused. You mean you wanted Mario Galaxy but in HD? The same game with twice the vertical resolution and a standard controller would have made you happy?

    I'm well aware of the fact that Miyamoto works for Nintendo only, but imagine Nintendo had made a console like the other 2 did. Nintendo would have less money by now, but their catalogue would quite probably be second to none.

    Quite possibly. And maybe also deleted because nobody publishes them any more.

    I hear you on Nintendo's marketing concept, but I don't quite agree; yes they had to come up with something new, but they weren't forced to sell the audience that kept them afloat for the past 20 years down the river for it. Even with the weak technology present in the Wii, they could have tried to churn out some quality games. But they didn't, and gave us piles of shovelware instead; and following this trend, you get games like Deadly Creatures. Which also might have been quite good, had it been done on a high-end machine.

    Very few Nintendo games are shovelware, although Animal Crossing and Wii Music could have been done far better. The shovelware games are from third parties, but this developer has evidently made an effort here and most of the reviews show that. If it had been on the PS360 it would probably have not seen the light of day given the cost of development on these machines, especially the PS3.

  • smelly #68 3 years ago

    (last post was a joke btw for those of you following along)

    BUT WTF IS UP WITH YOU PEOPLE?

    Are you lot RETARDED?

    A THIRD PARTY releases a game - which is reviewed badly here (but reviewed highly on other sites).. and that is apparently PROOF that the CONSOLE is shit? (And some of you are even saying it means nintendo make shit games?!?)

    OMFG! Do you fanboys not realise how FUCKING STUPID you sound sometimes?

    The last ounce of intelligence i've given to gamers has walked out and left the building. I'm now adamant that gamers truely are the dumbest f*cks in the world and gaming really does damage your intelligence (or at least thats how it feels when reading threads like this)

    I mean when i was a lad we used to argue if the amiga was better than the ST and stuff.. But it never went to this level of stupidity where people were using arguments which were completely against all forms of common sense!

  • UncleLou #69 3 years ago

    it is a problem for owners of the other 2 consoles, because it drastically reduces the number of potentioally good games released. the development of a wii game (even though dev cycles are short) wastes the time of people that could actually be out there, making good games.

    This sounds pretty much like what PC gamers say about the 360 and co., followed by abuse and cries of elitism.

    It's amusing how it's suddenly become an accepted argument for some now that "next gen" console gamers seem to find themselves in a similar situation.

  • schnide #70 3 years ago

    @Dan234

    I'm going to pick up on the control issue. Please explain the need for Wii Motion Plus.

    Not just the need for it, but the fact that Nintendo are officially releasing it themselves.

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife #71 3 years ago

    To provide 1-to-1 control as opposed to a pointer and motion control.

    It's really very simple.

  • Dan234 #72 3 years ago

    I'm going to pick up on the control issue. Please explain the need for Wii Motion Plus.

    @schnide

    Not just the need for it, but the fact that Nintendo are officially releasing it themselves.

    Because the Wiimote can't detect rotational motion when the camera doesn't have view of the sensor bar. Motion+ has three rotational sensors which fix this.

    As to why they didn't include it in the first place, the price and size of gyroscopes in 2005 made them difficult to include.

    As to why they're including it now, evidently some kinds of games would play better with more rotational precision when the Wiimote isn't pointing at the sensor bar.

    As to why Nintendo they're releasing it themselves, I suppose only the manufacturer can roll out an upgrade like this with any degree of success.

    Hope that helps.
    Edited by 1 at 18/02/09 @ 21:01

  • schnide #73 3 years ago

    So it wasn't good enough the first time around, basically? That's as I thought too.

    Presumably on that rationale you'd also think it justifiable if they released an upgrade because the Wii can't throw a decent level of graphics up on the screen by today's standards.

    As to why they didn't include such hardware in the first place, presumably it's because the price of decent components made them difficult to include and still sell the console to families.

    As to why they'd be including it now, evidently some kinds of games would play better if they could be more immersive, and it would also help if traditional gamers didn't rip the piss out of Nintendo these days prompting the games media to write articles on why Nintendo's abandoned it's previous fanbase.

    Would that be okay with you if they did that too?

  • electrolite #74 3 years ago

    I love this....

    "traditional gamers" Define please?

  • kewny #75 3 years ago

    Mmmmmm......... was interested in getting this after seeing some game vids, but after some of the lackluste reviews I am not too sure now. Think the EG review is pretty harsh really though. Look at the review for TR:underworld - scored pretty well on EG even though the game is short and the camera is even worse than this game. Yet this game gets a 4 when it is at least trying something different. Reviews on this site really are all over the shop, with little consistancy shown (as the fear2/killzone2 review debacle also demonstrated last week).

    What is all the fuss about madworld ? I have read some previews and seen some gameplay footage and think it is a bit meh to me - horses for courses I suppose.....

    How much was it in asda by the way ??
    Edited by 1 at 18/02/09 @ 17:35

  • smelly #76 3 years ago

    >"traditional gamers" Define please?

    I'm 34. I've been playing games since i was 8 years old. So that's 26 years i've wasted playing games. And I had 10 year stint making games too as a programmer.

    So I guess you could define "traditional gamer" as me. And I love nintendo games, and find fps games boring and mainstream.

  • Svecke #77 3 years ago

    Aha, seems like this game isn't a lost cause after all, after reading the comments. I shall pick this up forthwith.

  • smelly #78 3 years ago

    @Svecke: I just read a 9/10 review on another site.. So it seems to be a "marmite" game - or maybe not the type of game the reviewer himself enjoys (he does seem to review a lot of wii games lowly).

    That's not to say his opinion is "wrong" - everyone has different opinions and that's why a review is never really gospel.

    A bad review of a game i end up liking doesnt piss me off .. a good review of a game i end up hating does piss me off!

  • smelly #79 3 years ago

    Case in point:

    Gamespy : 9/10
    ign : 8/10
    Gamesradar : 8/10
    Gamespot: 7/10
    EG: 4/10

    So there you go.. Go read the other reviews and make your decision ...

  • Der_tolle_Emil #80 3 years ago

    That still doesn't mean that this review is 'wrong'. It is a person's opinion after all. Reviews don't necessarily have to be more 'right' than someone just playing the game. Saying that EG's score of 4 has to be bogus just because a lot of other reviewers think it's a better game is like trying to tell someone on the forums he has to like Halo3/Killzone2/ just because so many other people think it's good.

    I've read the same complaints about this game in other reviews which means that he isn't making stuff up. Judging wether those problems are game breaking or not is up to the reviewer and since I doubt nobody here actually knows the guy I don't have the slightest clue why so many people here think they know better what Dan likes and what he doesn't like. Just again, it's like arguing on the forums wether tearing is bad or not - we all agree that it is yet some people aren't bothered by it at all when others actually refuse to buy a game because of it.

  • smelly #81 3 years ago

    @Der_tolle_Emil:
    >That still doesn't mean that this review is 'wrong'.

    Did you EVEN read my post where i said (and I quote)


    "That's not to say his opinion is "wrong" - everyone has different opinions and that's why a review is never really gospel. "
    Edited by 1 at 18/02/09 @ 19:00

  • Der_tolle_Emil #82 3 years ago

    Of course I read your post. I wasn't necessarily replying to you actually; I admit it does sound like this though - poorly written post by me there. Actually I meant all those guys who crawl back to Metacritic and try to prove their point :)

  • Stompy #83 3 years ago

    "So it wasn't good enough the first time around, basically? That's as I thought too."

    "Mommy, why is my dingle bigger than it used to be?"
    "It wasn't long enough the first time round, son."

  • electrolite #84 3 years ago

    I just wondered how Schnide would define it. I'm very curious....

  • smelly #85 3 years ago

    I've just read loads of different reviews.. watched a few vids.. and still cant decide whether or not to buy it.

    The fact it's cheap (25 quid) is stearing me towards a "try it out and see for myself" decision

  • Dan234 #86 3 years ago

    @schnide

    So it wasn't good enough the first time around, basically? That's as I thought too.

    I could have responded with anything and your reply wouldn't have changed, would it?

    Presumably on that rationale you'd also think it justifiable if they released an upgrade because the Wii can't throw a decent level of graphics up on the screen by today's standards.

    If people would buy it and developers would support it. But as my other reply above hinted at, would Mario Galaxy be any better with double the vertical resolution? It seems when I ask this question it never gets answered.

    As to why they didn't include such hardware in the first place, presumably it's because the price of decent components made them difficult to include and still sell the console to families.

    That's right, because the objective was to expand the market and sell the hardware at a profit as it was the only realistic way the company could survive. As with the DS Lite.

    As to why they'd be including it now, evidently some kinds of games would play better if they could be more immersive, and it would also help if traditional gamers didn't rip the piss out of Nintendo these days prompting the games media to write articles on why Nintendo's abandoned it's previous fanbase.

    Would that be okay with you if they did that too?

    Not quite sure that I understand your question...
    Edited by 1 at 18/02/09 @ 21:12

  • smelly #87 3 years ago

    >So it wasn't good enough the first time around, basically? That's as I thought too.

    So when the next xbox or next playstation comes out - you'll use the same argument "they had to make a new version because the last version wasnt good enough first time around"?

  • merkdot #88 3 years ago

    looks interesting, but I will wait for it to hit £15 or so before I buy I think.

  • FooAtari #89 3 years ago

    @UncleLous
    "it is a problem for owners of the other 2 consoles, because it drastically reduces the number of potentioally good games released. the development of a wii game (even though dev cycles are short) wastes the time of people that could actually be out there, making good games.

    This sounds pretty much like what PC gamers say about the 360 and co., followed by abuse and cries of elitism.

    It's amusing how it's suddenly become an accepted argument for some now that "next gen" console gamers seem to find themselves in a similar situation."

    So so true. One rule for one argument, another set of rules for another argument. It's actually quite sad.

  • FooAtari #90 3 years ago

    JahB & schnide - what a great commedy duo.

    Talking of graphics schnide, which are clearly of very high importance to you, I assume you have a cutting edge PC? In comparisson the PC makes the 360/ps3 look a little dated, like you claim Wii games look compared to the PS3/360

  • Sean.Aaron #91 3 years ago

    Having re-read the review I have to say the writing is better than I thought on first pass, but the conclusions about the combat I cannot agree with; nor the description of the game as "clunky." The combat is not that difficult to get to grips with; the enemies like rats and lizards aren't cheap any more than any other enemy in any arcade or console game since time began is: it's down to pattern recognition and developing a strategy to tackle them using the attacks at your command. For some enemies the longer envenoming attack is effective; not so for others. I cannot understand why this was apparently a difficult lesson to learn. I might well slate Megaman 9 for the same reason and that would be equally missing the point.

    Bottom line, the scoring is poor and the conclusion undeserved.

    I've written my own review for my blog, so do check it out.
    Edited by 1 at 19/02/09 @ 00:08

  • Sid-Nice #92 3 years ago

    My wife caught me red handed masturbating over a scene in a porno movie featuring lesbian cheerleaders; it took me a few days before I actually had the courage to look her in the eye. On New years Day my neighbour spotted me playing on the Wii; I didn’t realise the blinds were open; still I’ve managed to avoid contact with up till now. The embarrassment is killing me.

  • schnide #93 3 years ago

    @Dan234

    You're right, I concede that much - whatever your reply, it was very unlikely to change my mind. Wii Motion Plus to me is a concession that it isn't good enough and there's a history of this kind of thing in the industry. The N64 memory expansion pack, Sega CD, GBA SP.. it's worrying Nintendo didn't think to include these functions. As a gamer, I'd expect them. But Nintendo wasn't looking at people like me who'd like these things, which is why they've alienated me and thousands like me and instead have 6 year olds and fat housewives playing on their latest console.

    Before anyone thinks I'm losing sleep over this, I'm fine, but it means I'm instead playing on a Microsoft console each night because Nintendo gave up the fight (and Sony screwed up too of course, it's just not wholly relevant to this discussion).

    Super Mario Galaxy would probably be exactly the same game with double the vertical resolution. That a console can run a game which doesn't need the latest standard of graphics doesn't excuse the fact it can't run the games that do.

  • schnide #94 3 years ago

    @FooAtari

    Graphics are not clearly of importance to me. Graphics are at a certain standard each generation and the Wii falls far behind. The PC will always be able to look the best because their is no standard hardware limit - if you have the cash, you have the best graphics. Paying less for a console guarantees I can run whatever's released for my platform. Do you want to play out the console vs PC debate here or do you want to stay on topic?

  • schnide #95 3 years ago

    @electrolite

    In this context, traditional gamers would be anyone who was interested in gaming before they picked up a Wii and for those who weren't, didn't only do so because of the control system. If you want to call this snobbery, then call it snobbery. To me, not being interested in immersing yourself in alternate worlds because you can't get your head around how a joypad works means you're probably never going to get the most out of gaming anyway. It's the same issue that means ITV are flooding the channel with celebrity-endorsed shit, the same reason that London theatre is dominated by musical adaptions of Hollywood movies which never needed to be retold, the same reason that Adele and Duffy were invested in because they sound like Amy Winehouse. When commerce chases the easy buck, standards get lowered and quality gets diluted.

    I love gaming, it's my passion, and when I see stories about how Miyamoto's patented a system that will play the game for you, I despair about what might happen to gaming bastions like Zelda. That's a franchise which deserves better than a gimmicky control system and a graphics engine which can't do it justice.

  • xagarath #96 3 years ago

    Any moron calling themselves a "traditional gamer" or "core gamer" can safely be ignored, guys. Surely you should've learned this by now.
    Let them go back to their identical brown FPSs.

  • electrolite #97 3 years ago

    It's not snobbery, necessarily, it's just as unwieldy a definition of 'traditional', 'core', or 'proper' gamers as all the other attempts. I'm 32, I have a girlfriend, I work shifts as an ATCO, I've been playing games for over 20 years and have found plenty to amuse me on the Wii, whether single-player stuff when I have a few hours, or puzzle games when I'm pushed for time, or party games/Mario Kart online for multiplayer fun.

    You've done better skirting around it than most people but usually when that kind of label is attached it means '360 owner', and usually offers no acknowledgement that anyone with any interest in games has and plays on the Wii (which I think you have fallen into), which maybe being slightly older, goes entirely against my experience. I was getting bored of FPS's at the end of the last-gen and this one has only made it worse, especially as now companies only involved in gaming for a few years are telling me I need a new TV as well as their console to get the best out of it. And there are more like me out there, to assume all Wii owners are wannabee-Harry Redknapp's is very unwise.

    As for the 'immersion in virtual worlds' bit, I'm not interested in that because for a lot of games that means a gaming-standard storyline and script, which are frankly sub-The Fast and The Furious shit. For all gamings pretensions to Hollywood, this remains the case.

    The last point is-compare Nintendo's output at this stage of the Wii's life (27 months), to that of the N64 or 'Cube. It ain't much different. It's drowning under a sea of third-party crap that even the PS1/PS2/Spectrum would be embarrassed about, but actual first/second-party games haven't dipped much.

    And lastly, re. the 'system that will play the game for you', none of us have any idea what that means yet, so to be complaining about something that in real terms doesn't exist is pointless

  • schnide #98 3 years ago

    @xagarath

    Yes, that's totally true. There's also no such thing as a traditional voter, traditional loyal customer or even market analysis. Blur the boundaries, everyone's different and the same. Let's not be smart enough to make distinctions or differentiate without causing offense, and then ultimately top it off by claiming those boundaries don't exist while at the same time pigeonholing them into one. Morons of the world, unite!

  • schnide #99 3 years ago

    @electrolite

    Just because the terms are hard to define doesn't mean that you shouldn't try or that the boundaries don't exist. Gaming is a relatively new medium and has had very little analysis applied to it. The most that has will have been done by marketeers and ultimately their only interest is in how they can make more money. I'm 29, also have a girlfriend and have been playing games for around the same time - I'm the one my friends ask when they want to know about games. My mate who has a Wii has bought 10 games for it and hardly plays it. I would say you have to try harder to find games of quality on the Wii, but YMMV.

    Yes, I'm a 360 owner because I consider myself discerning (hence using the word 'snobbery' and saving anyone else the trouble) and that system offers the best value for money against quality of games. I hate Microsoft with a passion but still made that decision.

    As for the 'immersion in virtual worlds' bit

    That was more pretentious that I could have made it sound - what I ultimately mean is escapism. The 360 or PS3 could bring out motion sensing next week if it wanted to, but the Wii will never be able to run GTA.

    And lastly, re. the 'system that will play the game for you', none of us have any idea what that means yet, so to be complaining about something that in real terms doesn't exist is pointless

    It nevertheless points to a worrying trend, and if you like waiting until the shit hits the fan then you must absolutely love living in the UK.

  • Dan234 #100 3 years ago

    @schnide

    Wii Motion Plus to me is a concession that it isn't good enough and there's a history of this kind of thing in the industry. The N64 memory expansion pack, Sega CD, GBA SP.. it's worrying Nintendo didn't think to include these functions. As a gamer, I'd expect them. But Nintendo wasn't looking at people like me who'd like these things, which is why they've alienated me and thousands like me and instead have 6 year olds and fat housewives playing on their latest console.

    Before anyone thinks I'm losing sleep over this, I'm fine, but it means I'm instead playing on a Microsoft console each night because Nintendo gave up the fight (and Sony screwed up too of course, it's just not wholly relevant to this discussion).

    The PC will always be able to look the best because their is no standard hardware limit - if you have the cash, you have the best graphics. Paying less for a console guarantees I can run whatever's released for my platform. Do you want to play out the console vs PC debate here or do you want to stay on topic?

    You can't pay less for a console and have it all like on the PC. Manufacturers have to decide on which features to include and fix a price point which guarantees the most sales, then later add accessories which add life to the machine before the market is ready for a newer generation. Surely thinking as you do (you want a machine with everything) the PS3 would be your console but you have a 360 and have to buy things like the Wi-fi adaptor and HD DVD drive separately. So is the 360 underpowered or isn't it?

    The right answer is you found a console which gives you the features you find important at the price point you find acceptable, not that the 360 is the solution to everyone's problems. The Wii and the PS3 also have their own feature lists and price points.

    There's also no such thing as a traditional voter, traditional loyal customer or even market analysis. Blur the boundaries, everyone's different and the same. Let's not be smart enough to make distinctions or differentiate without causing offense, and then ultimately top it off by claiming those boundaries don't exist while at the same time pigeonholing them into one. Morons of the world, unite!

    Then why do you claim you're a traditional gamer? You're only claiming that because you played games from a certain period on consoles from a certain period using controllers from a certain period, claiming that previous machines were underpowered and the Wii is underpowered and dumbed-down and has a gimmicky control system. Then you talk about 'not being interested in immersing yourself in alternate worlds because you can't get your head around how a joypad works' when a joypad basically hasn't changed since the Atari 2600 and is hardly immersive.

    If you were interested in immersing yourself in an alternate world you'd probably be charitable enough to find the Wiimote (at least in its Motion+ form) interesting in some way or another, but as you don't I suspect what you're more interested in doing is immersing yourself in one kind of game using the one kind of controller you've always used, which you're entitled to do, but that doesn't really mean that you have found the one true path and everyone else with a different console and controller is mistaken.

    and if you like waiting until the shit hits the fan then you must absolutely love living in the UK.

    If you're talking about the economic crisis, I don't think anyone's going to get off lightly.
    Edited by 2 at 19/02/09 @ 12:50

  • schnide #101 3 years ago

    @Dan234

    You can't pay less for a console and have it all like on the PC.

    Yes I know. What did I say that counteracted that?

    Manufacturers have to decide on which features to include and fix a price point which guarantees the most sales, then later add accessories which add life to the machine before the market is ready for a newer generation. Surely thinking as you do (you want a machine with everything) the PS3 would be your console but you have a 360 and have to buy things like the Wi-fi adaptor and HD DVD drive separately. So is the 360 underpowered or isn't it?

    I'd like a toilet seat made of gold, but it just ain't on the cards baby! You oversimplify. The Wii is fundementally hamstrung, its processing is grossly underpowered for this generation (something that now you seem to be blindly ignoring) and even it's only major selling point isn't as good as it should be. If the PS3 was easy to program for so that the 360 didn't keep beating it in the EG comparisons, I'd have bought a PS3. Begrudgingly, in my most humble opinion, the 360 is the best games machine. The Wii is a toy and the PS3 is a multimedia machine that hasn't come into it's own yet. I was holding out for a long time on which of the two current gen machines to buy because I wanted the PS3 to realise it's potential, but I got bored of waiting.

    The 360 isn't underpowered because no add-on you can buy changes the way that games can be played. The Wi-fi adaptor is a mere practicality, and I don't have a TV for Blu-ray. The 360 is grossly underpowered as a modern movie player, just as it's grossly underpowered as a sat nav device or an esspresso machine. I want to play games, that's what gamers do, and the 360 does that best. By that rationale, the Wii isn't underpowered if you want a game of bowling with PS2 graphics.

    The right answer is you found a console which gives you the features you find important at the price point you find acceptable, not that the 360 is the solution to everyone's problems. The Wii and the PS3 also have their own feature lists and price points.

    Agreed. My main argument is that my answer is the same as for the majority of gamers. As in traditional gamers, by my definition. Which brings us on to..

    There's also no such thing as a traditional voter, traditional loyal customer or even market analysis. Blur the boundaries, everyone's different and the same. Let's not be smart enough to make distinctions or differentiate without causing offense, and then ultimately top it off by claiming those boundaries don't exist while at the same time pigeonholing them into one. Morons of the world, unite!

    Then why do you claim you're a traditional gamer?

    I was being sarcastic. Of course all those things exist.

    A joypad basically hasn't changed since the Atari 2600 and is hardly immersive.

    This is not an argument. The wheel has been the same shape since the stone age but you don't see F1 cars skidding around corners on granite tyres.

    If you were interested in immersing yourself in an alternate world you'd probably be charitable enough to find the Wiimote (at least in its Motion+ form) interesting in some way or another, but as you don't I suspect what you're more interested in doing is immersing yourself in one kind of game using the one kind of controller you've always used, which you're entitled to do, but that doesn't really mean that you have found the one true path and everyone else with a different console and controller is mistaken.

    The Wii in principle has merit - but the GRAPHICS HARDWARE ISN'T POWERFUL ENOUGH AND THE CONTROL SYSTEM ISN'T REFINED ENOUGH FOR THE WII TO BE CONSIDERED A CURRENT GEN GAMING SYSTEM. If I shout louder, do you hear?

    and if you like waiting until the shit hits the fan then you must absolutely love living in the UK.

    If you're talking about the economic crisis, I don't think anyone's going to get off lightly.

    I mean the way that apathy is a way of life, it's a general principle people seem to live by here. I had ID cards specifically in mind when I wrote that, but that's off topic. My point is that it's absolutely not wrong to object to something because of the potential ills it might bring just because it hasn't happened yet. Life must be easy for you if you think that way. Look at how Facebook recently went back on their new t&c's because people objected before the problems were caused. Presumably you'd have waited until your private photos were sold by Facebook, and then defended them for doing it.

  • Sean.Aaron #102 3 years ago

    "The Wii in principle has merit - but the GRAPHICS HARDWARE ISN'T POWERFUL ENOUGH AND THE CONTROL SYSTEM ISN'T REFINED ENOUGH FOR THE WII TO BE CONSIDERED A CURRENT GEN GAMING SYSTEM. If I shout louder, do you hear?"

    Um, no, because you're not making any sense. A gaming generation need only be defined by the fact that it's current; I was unaware of any special set of criteria a games system had to have in order to be considered "CURRENT GEN," so as long as you're going to be a pontificating windbag, how about enumerating them for us?

    By the way, what your friends do isn't something you can safely use to infer what the entire world does -- this is a lesson best learned early, like before you learn to type on internet forums, so please stop stating anecdotal evidence as universal fact.

    The Wii is not necessarily powerful enough to run games appearing on the PS/360, I don't think anyone disagrees with that statement. So what? And the motion controls are definitely sensitive enough to function well, just look at Let's Tap! for proof of that. The primary issue with the gestures is that some 3rd parties haven't realised their limitations (3D positioning was never an advertised feature, so not relevant) and acted accordingly. The fact that Deadly Creatures allows for adjustment to gesture detection is a revelation and very welcome, so that the player can determine how much they want to move the controller before triggering an on-screen action.
    Edited by 1 at 19/02/09 @ 13:54

  • schnide #103 3 years ago

    @Sean.Aaron

    The PS2 is still on the market. Is the PS2 is current gen, too? The Wii is essentially a Gamecube with a wand interface. Gamecube is last gen.

    No, what my friends do is not something I can safely use to infer what the entire world does and anecdotal evidence is not (necessarily) universal fact. I meant to imply neither, and retract any comments appearing otherwise.

  • Sid-Nice #104 3 years ago

    I've been a wanker for over 40 years; I don't see myself as a traditional wanker or hardcore wanker, don't get me wrong as I'm certainly dedicated and my life time ambition is to leave the earth's atmosphere to become a floating wanker. I didn’t realise that I had a problem until I became a fan of Microsoft consoles; now I’m the biggest wanker in the world.

  • YenRug #105 3 years ago

    @ schnide

    The Wii in principle has merit - but the GRAPHICS HARDWARE ISN'T POWERFUL ENOUGH AND THE CONTROL SYSTEM ISN'T REFINED ENOUGH FOR THE WII TO BE CONSIDERED A CURRENT GEN GAMING SYSTEM. If I shout louder, do you hear?

    I think I can safely say what I'm hearing, someone who's made the mis-conception that similar graphical technology was the only defining feature in previous generations of hardware, when the period of their release is really the only measure. Try getting over the fact that the biggest selling system of this generation, so far, isn't the one with the biggest pair of socks stuffed down its pants.

    Try accepting that you are one type of gamer who mainly gets his jollies out of how flash things look on the screen, because it sure as hell doesn't mean you are the only gamer that matters.

    I'll be 39 in a few months, I've been playing videogames since the mid-70's (yes, they did exist then, they didn't magically spring to life when the Xbox did with it's superior graphics, last gen), you eventually get to a point where you are more interested in whether graphics do a good enough job to play the game, rather than what latest rendering/shading/lens tricks it pulls off. Personally, I find the FPS genre to be absolutely boring, barring the odd exception, so the predominance of them on the PS2 and Xbox, leading onto them being dominant on the PS3 and Xbox 360, actually put me off those systems.

    I bought a Wii because it's giving me enough games to play and enjoy; yes, I get PO'ed every time I see the latest mini-game fest/shovelware crap put out, but I at least have enough brains to recognise that I'm not the target buyer for those games. Yes, I also would like to see more mainstream games put out on it, especially ones that do exploit it's capabilities (strangely enough, it can actually do some pretty good graphics, they're just not in HD), but I don't see the point in repeatedly knocking a system down because of the things it can't do; if you've got a point to raise, make sure it's about what a game's not doing, which it should be capable of, not what it could never do.

    It's like how some reviewers keep on mentioning, "whilst it's never going to look as good as a PS3/Xbox360 game..."; no shit, Sherlock, we didn't know the Wii could only output only SD resolution from the day of its release, not at all! You've made your choice, no matter how much you keep on bleating about it, it's not going to change the fact that there's a system on sale which doesn't have as good graphics, even though it keeps on outselling the one you chose. Accept it, move on and just hope that Wii2 does have HD graphics and a Wiimote that does detect every single little movement of your hands.

  • schnide #106 3 years ago

    @YenRug

    Sorry, I stopped reading what you've written after the first few paragraphs. Bells, whistles and graphics do not a good game make.

    Being able to throw more stuff up on screen means that you can provide more of an experience (in most genres, since I have to caveat everything I'm saying for all you enraged Wii owners). You will never be able to play Fallout 3, GTA or anything else similar to that on the Wii. Ever.

    There's no game on the Wii that you couldn't do on the 360 or PS3 if an inadequate motion sensor peripheral was released.

    If you're happy playing cut-down versions of 360/PS3 games, Super Mario or games to stop your fat sister going to the gym, then by all means buy a Wii. In the meantime, the Wii still cannot be taken seriously as a games console for much if anything outside of that.

    You pays your money, you takes your choice. That my opinion on it seems to strike a nerve with so many - may I presume - Wii owners probably says as much about you as it does me.
    Edited by 1 at 19/02/09 @ 14:43

  • schnide #107 3 years ago

    Oh and by the way, who's disputing the success of the Wii?

    My point is, and always has been, that it isn't gamers who are buying the majority of them and the reasons for that are those stated by me and professional journalists (I use the term loosely, of course) whose work you come here daily to read.

    If you need to quote sales figures as a measure of success for your console then perhaps I can interest you in eating shit, because after all, 38 billion flies can't be wrong.

    (Although you rarely see them playing Wii Music..)
    Edited by 1 at 19/02/09 @ 14:44

  • merkdot #108 3 years ago

    when the next generation consoles do things besides graphics that couldn't be done, then it's safe to differentiate. But the top 20 games on the 360/PS3 are still shooter sequels, GTA sequels, 3D fighting games, platformers sequels re-done in hidef, tomb raider clones, or Morrowind games, all being copies of ps2-era gameplay.

    clearly, and undisputably, the leap from "PS2-era" to "HD-era" is nowhere near as significant as the PS1->PS2 leap, which brought multitudes of new gameplay types to the table, and before that the 2D->3D leap which was obviously the largest shift.

    there's an argument I appreciate (but don't 100% agree with) that some of the games on the Wii are more defacto next-generation games because they couldn't be done on the older systems due to peripheral constraints.

    but to stay on-topic and point out the obvious, Deadly Creatures clearly isn't one of them.

  • schnide #109 3 years ago

    @merkdot

    Even if the best-selling games available for the more powerful systems are hard to differentiate, at least those machines have the potential for doing more.

    Either way, sensible counter-arguments. About time too.

  • Sean.Aaron #110 3 years ago

    "You will never be able to play Fallout 3, GTA or anything else similar to that on the Wii. Ever. "

    I don't understand the point of this. If I wanted to play those games I'd buy the system they're running on. I don't, so I don't really care. If you like you can feel like a snob about the 360, but the fact is that anyone who has a Wii and really wants those kinds of games will get a second console; people that don't give a toss see you as a preening fanboy tosser saying "Look at me! Look at me!" in front of a mirror.

    Seriously, get a fucking life.

  • merkdot #111 3 years ago

    schnide: perhaps if the industry could break out of its "HD console games are graphics first" mould, then it could happen. But while the generation that first put the Playstation on the map insists on graphics being the primary feature of the modern full-price game, there is no practicable chance of anything interesting happening, due to the memory limitations of the HD consoles.

  • Dan234 #112 3 years ago

    Yes I know. What did I say that counteracted that?

    Because you appear to want it all, apart from the price.

    The Wii in principle has merit - but the GRAPHICS HARDWARE ISN'T POWERFUL ENOUGH AND THE CONTROL SYSTEM ISN'T REFINED ENOUGH FOR THE WII TO BE CONSIDERED A CURRENT GEN GAMING SYSTEM. If I shout louder, do you hear?

    Yet above you said 'Graphics are not clearly of importance to me' and go on to contradict it immediately with 'Graphics are at a certain standard each generation and the Wii falls far behind', when the fact is that Wii graphics about as good as they can be on SD televisions.

    What would you say to someone who said 'Video quality is not important to me' and then go on to immediately contradict it with 'Freeview (digital television through a TV aerial) falls far behind digital television through Sky'?

    And, have you tried the Wii's control system on a game which uses those controls well? Or are you doing the equivalent of slating the PS3 because Lair is difficult to control?

    I mean the way that apathy is a way of life, it's a general principle people seem to live by here. I had ID cards specifically in mind when I wrote that, but that's off topic. My point is that it's absolutely not wrong to object to something because of the potential ills it might bring just because it hasn't happened yet. Life must be easy for you if you think that way. Look at how Facebook recently went back on their new t&c's because people objected before the problems were caused. Presumably you'd have waited until your private photos were sold by Facebook, and then defended them for doing it.

    This seems very off-topic, but...

    1) I don't live in the UK.
    2) ID cards aren't modern, they seem to have been favoured mainly by dictators in the 30s.
    3) Just on the television today in Spain there was the story of a poor man who had his ID card stolen, a mortgage taken out with a false ID card using his ID card number, the person who faked his ID still hasn't been found meanwhile the person in question can't get any credit and has been trying for nearly 10 years to get social security to clean up his records, his name taken off credit blacklists, and remove the part of his monthly salary embargoed to pay the mortgage that the other person was not paying. You can see where the shiny modern parts are (automatic embargo of all current accounts belonging to someone with ID card number 123) that aren't necessary any good.
    4) I don't have a Facebook account and don't want one, one of the reasons for not wanting one is privacy. If you think Facebook offers you privacy in its current form you must be barmy.

    You see, you can assume all kinds of things about people and they all turn out to be false.

    Anyway, it appears that you're happy with what you've got. So why do you need to preach to everyone else?

  • merkdot #113 3 years ago

    in fact, to touch on the earlier casual/core argument, it is my opinion (shared by some of my more free-thinking friends), that the "Playstation Generation" are very firmly amongst the casual set.

    Sony successfully created a whole new market made up of customers that just wanted impressive and acceptable electronics, with the games to match. Hence the popularity of Gran Turismo for example (to my knowledge, the biggest selling first party exclusive title in terms of sales per SKU).

    sadly for fans of interesting/unique/experimental/novel (choose your adjective) gameplay that this 'Playstation Generation' would probably find irreverent, the option is just a scattershot of games spread across Wii, WiiWare, DS, XBLA, PSN and PC.

    so the expert System Warriors, who have honed their "debating talent" (i.e. splitting hairs, ignoring arguments and generally being unpleasant) are happy to sit and snipe and generally pick on anything they don't understand or doesn't fit the formula of "graphically intense racing and shooting".

    to me, Gears of War, Halo, Killzone, whatever, these are just like pop music. The Girls Aloud of videogaming. Brainless casual fodder. Sure, you can discuss the expert arrangement of the gameplay (tune) by the real studio pros behind the game (band), and appreciate the graphics (tits), but let's not kid ourselves that this is groundbreaking or even slightly cerebral.

  • Sean.Aaron #114 3 years ago

    "Anyway, it appears that you're happy with what you've got. So why do you need to preach to everyone else? "


    This X1,000,000...

  • YenRug #115 3 years ago

    @schnide

    Well, that's really odd then, because I thought your whole argument has been about how superior the graphics are on the PS3/Xbox360 and why all these games should be on there, instead, and how much better they would be. I only commented on the sales figures, because it's what really seems to irk you the most about this "inferior" gaming system (that loads of people seem to be enjoying playing), you're wondering why so many people would buy it in preference over your choice.

    But, I guess, that is the key word, isn't it? Preference.

  • schnide #116 3 years ago

    Because you appear to want it all, apart from the price.

    You seem quite eloquent a writer but also keep missing my points. I know that consoles aren't as powerful as PCs, but what I get for less money is the safety of knowing my system won't need to be upgraded within a certain time. Which is exactly what I said.

    Yet above you said 'Graphics are not clearly of importance to me' and go on to contradict it immediately with 'Graphics are at a certain standard each generation and the Wii falls far behind', when the fact is that Wii graphics about as good as they can be on SD televisions.

    You're missing the point again. I don't buy a game for it's graphics, but graphics allow a certain level of.. I've said this elsewhere. A 360 or PS3 can do better things on an SD or HD television. It's not just resolution and nor did I ever say it was.

    What would you say to someone who said 'Video quality is not important to me' and then go on to immediately contradict it with 'Freeview (digital television through a TV aerial) falls far behind digital television through Sky'?

    I'd say that doesn't contradict it as long as they're not buying Sky purely because the Freeview signal isn't as good. What's with you lot making blanket assumptions? Graphics quality is not important to me, but the games that rely on it are. The Wii is not as capable graphically as the 360 or PS3. This is fact.

    And, have you tried the Wii's control system on a game which uses those controls well? Or are you doing the equivalent of slating the PS3 because Lair is difficult to control?

    I've played Wii Sports, Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Marvel Alliance and Splinter Cell.

    2) ID cards aren't modern, they seem to have been favoured mainly by dictators in the 30s.
    3) Just on the television today in Spain there was the story of a poor man who had his ID card stolen, a mortgage taken out with a false ID card using his ID card number, the person who faked his ID still hasn't been found meanwhile the person in question can't get any credit and has been trying for nearly 10 years to get social security to clean up his records, his name taken off credit blacklists, and remove the part of his monthly salary embargoed to pay the mortgage that the other person was not paying. You can see where the shiny modern parts are (automatic embargo of all current accounts belonging to someone with ID card number 123) that aren't necessary any good.

    I'm not arguing for them, I'm arguing against them. I am one of the only people.

    You see, you can assume all kinds of things about people and they all turn out to be false.

    I apologise for any incorrect assumptions I made about you.

    Anyway, it appears that you're happy with what you've got. So why do you need to preach to everyone else?

    I wasn't preaching. I made one comment and people were outraged, so it's turned into this.

    But after all, who here doesn't like to mass debate?

  • schnide #117 3 years ago

    @YenRug

    Well, that's really odd then, because I thought your whole argument has been about..

    how superior the graphics are on the PS3/Xbox360

    Well, we know that much.

    and why all these games should be on there, instead, and how much better they would be.

    Is there anything the Wii can do that the others can't, bar the control system?

    I only commented on the sales figures, because it's what really seems to irk you the most about this "inferior" gaming system (that loads of people seem to be enjoying playing), you're wondering why so many people would buy it in preference over your choice.

    It irks me that a company which used to be so respected is now making games like Wii Fit and Wii Music. I don't like it, I don't have much individual power over it, and I don't have to buy it.

    That still doesn't stop the Wii being woefully underpowered and the control system not being as good as it should have been in the first place.

  • Sean.Aaron #118 3 years ago

    "It irks me that a company which used to be so respected is now making games like Wii Fit and Wii Music."

    Why? I say this as someone who owns the former and plans on buying the latter when it comes down to a more reasonable price.

  • electrolite #119 3 years ago

    @ schnide

    I can see where you're coming from, I just think it's a defunct argument. You've made your choice based on your criteria and I understand that. Other people have done the same but you seem to really struggle with it. As this debate continues, I can see you trying to get your head around it but just aren't quite there, and heading down the I'M SHOUTING road ain't gonna help. I realised many years ago that trying to get people to change their minds about something based on my own personal criteria was pointless

    I think 'The Last Broadcast' is the greatest album ever, I'm from Manchester, it came out when I was 25 and doing lots of drugs, it spoke to me, it wouldn't do the same for everyone. I think 'Goodbye Lenin' is one of the funniest films ever, other people would just see German with subtitles and run a mile. I chose not to buy an Ipod because I like to be able to drag and drop music, and copy back and forth from my PC easily. Others (many) disagree.

    If I wanted to be able to play Fallout 3, GTA IV I'd buy a PS3. I probably will when I can justify a new TV as well, or in the unlikely event they drop the price and put the PS2 BC back in (i.e. around the time Gordon Brown solves the depression). But for now, the Wii has shed loads of games I play and more I haven't got to yet (especially as I ditched the GC pretty quickly).

    Can you imagine if Nintendo had gone the same route as the other two in pursuing HD graphics? I think I'd have given up. It would be the most depressing, colourless generation ever. The bigger the differences between machines the better IMHO. True, we could do without the endless stream of horse whispering games and board game compilations, but I don't see the benefit in having another version of Fallout 3, or Kane and Lynch, or GRID on the shelves, however good or otherwise those games are

    FWIW, I agree with you on ID cards (while ignoring the ridiculous comparison with Nintendo's trademark)

    @merkdot
    Found myself nodding my head in agreement a lot there

  • dryden555 #120 3 years ago

    depends on the price -- if it were a bargain title I would buy it anyway because the idea is novel.

  • schnide #121 3 years ago

    I'd agree with merkdot, as a very general rule Playstation owners are more casual, 360 more hardcore and Wii owners I wouldn't say are really interested in games at all. I've spent far too long on these forums today so if this stirs up yet another shitstorm with you then either bite your turn or call me some naughty names.

    Killzone is hardly the Girls Aloud of gaming though.

    Anyway, I'm hardly struggling. I made one single statement about an inanimate object and people responded by calling me a wanker. It launched into a debate and I'm justifying my position.

    There's no ridiculous comparison with Nintendo's trademark and ID cards - it's explaining a principle and that principles matter on issues whether political or cultural. Patronise me all you like, but I'm not the one who has a problem with other people having opinions, and if people want to question mine I'll quite happily defend them.

  • electrolite #122 3 years ago

    "I made one single statement about an inanimate object and people responded by calling me a wanker. It launched into a debate and I'm justifying my position. "

    By 'struggling' I was referring to your difficulty in understanding other peoples positions, you have yours, fair enough, and you argue it pretty well, but it's pointless. You're seemingly completely blind to the idea that you might not be 'right', that other people may not want the same console as you, for the same reasons you wanted it. You're still at it in this last one, re "Wii owners...aren't really into games at all". I understand why people want a 360/PS3 ahead of a Wii, which is why you won't see me barging into 360 game threads like you did with your first couple of posts in this one. You just either can't, or won't understand why anyone else would think differently. Comparing an unused patent to something as serious as ID Cards just makes you look frantic (and being honest, you've actually got more chance of influencing the latter).

    It passes the time though

  • Stompy #123 3 years ago

    The question here is: "What makes a 'next-gen' console?"

    Some people think that whatever the answer is, it does not include the Wii.
    Let me speculate that what makes a 'next-gen'/current console is this: it inspires waves of argumentative dross from adults who should know better. (In particular, they should know better to leave their old Speccy/C64/Amiga/ST arguments in the playground, but because they've spent too much time playing games rather than growing up they can't let go of the old rivalries).

    This means that, yes, the Wii is NOT a 'next-gen' console. The people playing it are, by and large, either too casual to even know that people talk about this shit online; too ex-'real'-gamer to actually care because they've broken out of this stultifying cycle of sectarianism; or are just fucking having fun rather than trying to find more evidence of tearing in Killzone 2 compared to Gears of War 2.


    To me, the Wii is a current console because great games are being made for it right now, just like how some folk duo from Minneapolis are a current band because they're still touring or recording. I'm really looking forward to stuff like House of the Dead and MadWorld. "But those are genres that have been done before!" you might cry. So? Was Super Mario World shit because it was 'another Mario game'? (Yes, to a few extra-hardline Sega fans...) In response, you might shout that "the graphics are not HD". Let's go back and remake Bubble Bobble, the first GTA, or Space Invaders into HD. Do these suddenly become current gen games? Let's demix Gears of War into a HD text adventure with 3d screenshots as pictures. It's still HD. Is it current gen? I don't think you can define current gen in terms of graphics. Nor do I think you can say current gen is 'innovative', it's obvious that gaming is rarely so. So, what is it? I think you will find that my definition of "argumentative dross" holds pretty well in comparison to either graphics or innovativeness.

  • schnide #124 3 years ago

    Call me a wanker for other people's opinions and I'll ignore you. Call me a wanker for having mine and I'll argue them out.. for as long as I find it interesting.

    I understand why people read the Sun, think We Will Rock You is the best night out you can have in a London theatre, and why there's nothing wrong with buying Coca Cola. If seeming arrogant is the consequence of being discerning and not dumbing down, then you can accuse me of it all you want.

    And incidentally, I don't find The Last Broadcast to be the best album ever, but it's better than any of that Oasis shit any day of the week.

  • Stompy #125 3 years ago

    "If seeming arrogant is the consequence of being discerning and not dumbing down, then you can accuse me of it all you want."

    If seeming nerdy is the consequence of belonging to an established fan community and speaking Klingon, then you can accuse me of it all you want.

    Just because you think you are being 'discerning' does not make up the flaws in your argument (see my previous post, just above yours). In what way is the Wii not current-gen?

  • merkdot #126 3 years ago

    I'd agree with merkdot, as a very general rule Playstation owners are more casual, 360 more hardcore and Wii owners I wouldn't say are really interested in games at all.

    I never said this. 360 is exactly the same as PS3 in my eyes. Only XBLA saves it.

  • schnide #127 3 years ago

    It's a current gen console with last gen processing power and graphics. Does that suit you better?

    merkdot, I didn't mean to take your comments out of context - I used them as a basis for mine and built on it. Again, apologies.
    Edited by 1 at 19/02/09 @ 17:17

  • Dan234 #128 3 years ago

    You're missing the point again. I don't buy a game for it's graphics, but graphics allow a certain level of.. I've said this elsewhere. A 360 or PS3 can do better things on an SD or HD television. It's not just resolution and nor did I ever say it was.

    I'd say that doesn't contradict it as long as they're not buying Sky purely because the Freeview signal isn't as good. What's with you lot making blanket assumptions? Graphics quality is not important to me, but the games that rely on it are. The Wii is not as capable graphically as the 360 or PS3. This is fact.

    I know it is, I've never said it was otherwise and I knew that when I bought it.

    I think you're splitting hairs saying you're demanding a certain level of graphics from games instead of demanding a certain level of graphics from consoles. You can't have one without the other.

    I've played Wii Sports, Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Marvel Alliance and Splinter Cell.

    Not familiar with the last two so I can't comment, but I like Mario Kart with the Classic Controller (and Nintendo give me this option in the same way as the PS3 gives the customer the option of using a SixAxis) and I really have no problems with Wii Sports and SMG. In fact, I never thought I'd end up finding Wii Sports Golf the most addictive out of all the sports games and it's because of the level of control that's offered to me. I remember pressing rubber keys on golf games on the Spectrum and remember playing them with the mouse on the PC and it was all a bit meh. Yet I find myself coming back to Wii Sports Golf two years later when I've got half an hour.

    I understand why people read the Sun, think We Will Rock You is the best night out you can have in a London theatre, and why there's nothing wrong with buying Coca Cola. If seeming arrogant is the consequence of being discerning and not dumbing down, then you can accuse me of it all you want.

    If the 360's and Wii's sales figures were reversed, what would your argument be? You would evidently still want the console with the 360's capabilities, would you say that x million people can't be wrong?

    It's a current gen console with last gen processing power and graphics. Does that suit you better?

    How about the PS360 are current gen consoles with last gen controllers?

    When the next gen arrives and everything will have (more or less) converged, there won't be a problem. Or will there... if you have a 720 in the future which only comes with a Wiimote style control with an add-on classic controller you buy separately and dashboard which uses avatars, would you find this unacceptable?
    Edited by 1 at 19/02/09 @ 20:11

  • merkdot #129 3 years ago

    the new HD systems by MS and Sony are little more than what a PC gamer might experience by upgrading their graphics card.

    aside from a few nice little extra online features here and there, the improvement has really only been the move to HD, which does precisely NOTHING for gameplay.

  • electrolite #130 3 years ago

    "I understand why people read the Sun, think We Will Rock You is the best night out you can have in a London theatre, and why there's nothing wrong with buying Coca Cola. If seeming arrogant is the consequence of being discerning and not dumbing down, then you can accuse me of it all you want. "

    I appreciate this, I haven't called you a wanker, arrogant or anything else. I don't think you are....except, actually thinking about it, there is arrogance in your belief that the way you think is the discerning way of thought, absolutely right and unquestionable. It still seems to be the case that you're pursuing all your arguments based on this and literally ignoring any kind of disagreement

  • Sean.Aaron #131 3 years ago

    "Wii owners I wouldn't say are really interested in games at all."

    You're right, that's why I have two of them and 24 games in disc format alone on them let alone the dozens of VC and WiiWare titles.

    Jesus wept.

  • schnide #132 3 years ago

    @electrolite

    Literally ignoring any kind of disagreement? I think you'll find I've conceded more points on here than anyone else.

    Nevertheless, it's been good (mostly) sensibly arguing it with you.

  • schnide #133 3 years ago

    @Sean.Aaron

    I like how you edited out "as a very general rule.."

    But anyway..

    You're right, that's why I have two of them and 24 games in disc format alone on them let alone the dozens of VC and WiiWare titles.

    Sean, what you do isn't something you can safely use to infer what the entire world does. This is a lesson best learned early, like before you learn to type on internet forums, so please - stop stating anecdotal evidence as universal fact.

  • merkdot #134 3 years ago

    As a general rule, you shouldn't attempt to pigeonhole a 45 million-strong installed base into one box.

    Personally I believe that the Wii market is a complete mix of Nintendo hardcore/total casuals/'second-system' owners/collectors. Its universal popularity is its strength and its weakness, but its numbers are so strong that any well-produced and marketed 'traditional' franchise should do well, and we already know this is true from sales of Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Guitar Hero and Resident Evil 4.

  • schnide #135 3 years ago

    As a general rule, you shouldn't attempt to pigeonhole a 45 million-strong installed base into one box.

    That's why I said a very general rule, and if you need me to clarify it let me go as far in guessing that the majority of those owners will be the total casuals you cite. That's unless you're trying to say that Nintendo have unearthed millions of new hardcore gamers - but until we have proof, we can agree to disagree.

  • electrolite #136 3 years ago

    @schnide

    Nice 'mostly'.

    I'm ducking out of this one, I think Merkdot's articulating what I wanted to say better than I was. Have a good weekend and that

  • merkdot #137 3 years ago

    Personally, I could not care less about anyone unearthing 'new hardcore gamers', I think I've already covered my contempt for the group that calls themselves this. It's effectively a group of users that buy a lot of recycled/rehashed Western-focused games that were more than likely perfected on PC 10 years ago.

    Personally I think that niche gaming is far more important.

  • Dan234 #138 3 years ago

    @schnide

    Sean, what you do isn't something you can safely use to infer what the entire world does.

    Well most of your posts seem to have been along those very lines.

    I'm going to finish off posting a link to an interview with Maddox, because he's always right...

  • Sean.Aaron #139 3 years ago

    That interview was so right on I just read it a second time for entertainment value.

  • schnide #140 3 years ago

    @Dan234

    Are you going to back that up? Regardless, I was giving Sean's advice back at him, but thanks for contributing.

    And that interview's a joke, right?

  • Sean.Aaron #141 3 years ago

    @schnide:

    "That's why I said a very general rule, and if you need me to clarify it let me go as far in guessing that the majority of those owners will be the total casuals you cite. That's unless you're trying to say that Nintendo have unearthed millions of new hardcore gamers - but until we have proof, we can agree to disagree."

    The problem with your "general rule" is that the Wii still has the most software sales of the three systems, so if Wii owners generally didn't care about games this wouldn't be true.

    Kind of makes everything else you say difficult to take seriously.

  • gudnikristinn #142 3 years ago

    Wow, kinda crazy this debate you guy´s got going on. Did you guy´s see the IGN article about a Silent Hill remake coming to the Wii and PSP exclusively, Have you guy´s seen the trailer for Monster Hunter 3,Madworld,Overlord:Dark legends,Muramasa,FF:crystal chronicles("something";)bearer,Broken sword remake(best game ever),dead space extraction, fatal frame 4, cursed mountain,dragon Quest X....trust me ive got more.

    Anyway the Wii is easily justifiable as your sole system for even the most hardcore.
    It´s just a matter of taste in games, for me GTA4 doesn't even come close to Broken Sword: shadow of the templar directors cut(still cant get over them doing a remake.....and i also regularly jizz in my pants thinking about Monster Hunter 3.