Conflicting Goals

Kinect's pricing speaks of a company torn between market expansion and monetisation.

Published as part of our sister-site GamesIndustry.biz's widely-read weekly newsletter, the GamesIndustry.biz Editorial, is a weekly dissection of an issue weighing on the minds of the people at the top of the games business. It appears on Eurogamer after it goes out to GI.biz newsletter subscribers.

With the price for the system finally nailed down, the last major piece of the jigsaw in place, it's reasonable to pose the question - what is Kinect designed to do for Microsoft? It's a question made all the more important by the fact that the company itself doesn't seem to be entirely sure.

The line it most often rolls out is that Kinect will extend the lifespan of the Xbox 360 hardware, envisioning the combination of Kinect and the Xbox 360 S as essentially "Xbox 360.5" while the console's apparatchiks eagerly take up the chant of "five more years". On the other hand, its showing at E3 and various other events and statements suggest that it's all about market expansion, taking the battle for the hearts and minds of downstream gamers right into Nintendo's heartland.

Those are not necessarily conflicting objectives, of course, but it's crucial to understand that they're not actually the same objective either. Refreshing and expanding upon the console's capabilities could satisfy existing customers for a few more years without launching a new platform, without necessarily widening the demographic appeal of the system. Equally, it could widen the appeal to new audiences, but leave existing owners unimpressed and still keen for a platform upgrade within a normal timespan.

Up until this week, it looked for all the world like Microsoft's hope was that Kinect would expand the appeal of the Xbox 360, allowing it to continue strong hardware sales by breaking into new demographic groups. Appealing to core gamers - the vast bulk of the console's existing installed base - wasn't off the radar entirely but was certainly a significantly lower priority.

Those priorities made sense, for the most part. If Kinect could really convert some of Nintendo's audience over to the Microsoft camp (that, in itself, is a much bigger "if" than either Microsoft or Sony care to admit when flogging their respective motion control setups), then the console's sales would get a boost. Core gamers would, for the most part, remain glued to their controllers, but there would be plenty of games made for them as well.

The challenge to PR and marketing would be to avoid Nintendo's pitfall of appearing to pander to a new, casual audience at the expense of "long-suffering" fans, but Microsoft - with franchises like Halo, Gears of War and Forza Motorsport in its stable - would be far better positioned than the traditionally family-friendly Nintendo to see off those kinds of accusations.

The endgame here, should things turn out most favourably for Microsoft, would be that an "Xbox 3" would launch within a reasonable timescale, but Kinect's appeal would continue to drive Xbox 360 sales in the downstream market for several years. This is exactly the kind of arrangement Sony has enjoyed with its consoles, with the top end of the market moving to new hardware but an immensely profitable long tail continuing to thrive on the old platform.

In the wake of the confirmation of Kinect's retail pricing, however, things make a bit less sense. For this strategy to succeed, Kinect needed to appeal to the downstream market - people considering a Wii purchase next Christmas, who could now get a bit more bang for their buck with an Xbox and Kinect pack, or those whose taste for gaming has been whetted by the Wii, the DS or perhaps even Facebook or the iPhone, and who are now interested in trying a new and widely well-regarded platform.

Needless to say, at £129, Kinect is not exactly priced for that market. That's an early adopter price - a price which would entice upstream gamers keen to add the latest gadget to their console, but not one which will drive platform sales to any significant degree. For all that Microsoft would argue that the Xbox 360 is a superior piece of hardware to the Wii - and nobody is disagreeing with that, although I'd add the caveat that the value of hardware is largely defined by the value of its software to each individual consumer - the reality is that downstream consumers will find the concept of buying into an ecosystem whose motion control peripheral costs as much as some consoles do fairly unattractive.

That's not, in itself, a mistake on Microsoft's part. There's nothing wrong with launching a product at a price point aimed at existing consumers and early adopters; companies do this all the time. There was a clear choice to be made here - Microsoft could try to use Kinect to monetise its existing installed base, or it could try to use it to expand the market and drive platform sales. These two things are, for the most part, conflicting objectives - there's some overlap, but to be in with a shot at success, the company needs to pick a lane and stick with it.

Instead, like a terrible driver, Microsoft is weaving all over the road. The price point is a clear stab at monetisation. The E3 demonstrations suggested market expansion. More importantly, the "free" game being packed in with it is aimed squarely at the downstream end of the market, and the company's own executives are vague about when more hardcore games will turn up sporting Kinect functionality.

This, I suspect, is a symptom of Microsoft's internal corporate structure. The company is famously competitive and factional internally, with tales of its office politics and intrigues being legendary within the technology industries. It's simultaneously a great strength for the firm, and a massive weakness. In this instance, it seems that two opposed camps have struggled over the direction for Kinect - and indeed over the Xbox 360 in general.

After the expensive land-grab of the original Xbox, strong voices calling for monetisation of the 360 installed base emerged, while others called for market expansion to remain the priority, recognising that the console's position is far from cemented (having been outmanoeuvred in the downstream space by Nintendo and still facing a clear threat from Sony in the upstream space). The Xbox 360 S is something of a victory for the latter camp, finally integrating previously expensive components like the WiFi adapter into the system.

Kinect, however, feels like a product designed by the latter grouping - aimed squarely at market expansion - but with a price tag slapped on it by the former, with a clear eye on monetisation. As a result it finds itself in a no-man's land, not terribly interesting to the kind of people who already own an Xbox 360 and are willing to invest further in the platform, but far too expensive for newcomers to the system. Some seriously good marketing and PR could still give it a decent Christmas, but it will have to be genuinely eye-opening stuff to overcome the challenges created by the price point.

Supporters of Kinect will point out that Sony's Move hardware, too, quickly ramps up in price when you start adding additional controllers - and they're quite right. This, however, is not a zero-sum game. Both systems could be successful. More relevantly, both could be utter failures - the existence of a significant market for either technology has yet to be proven. An error on Microsoft's part cannot be excused by pointing out a similar error on Sony's part.

Indeed, it's entirely likely that early 2011 will see price cuts for both Move and Kinect - and herein lies yet another marketing challenge laid down by the platform holders for their communications teams. If Kinect, and indeed Move, have a tough Christmas, and then cut prices sharply in the New Year, how will the companies involved prevent the stench of failure from surrounding that price point?

Priced £50 cheaper, Kinect would start to make sense - an add-on that enhanced the appeal of the Xbox 360 at a price point which didn't massively inflate the cost of entry to the platform. As it stands, Microsoft has balanced the success of its much-hyped system on a knife edge. Thankfully, there's no question about Microsoft's ability to afford an expensive failure - but after over a year of hype, a flop for Kinect would pose serious and troubling questions about the firm's entire strategy in the console market.

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Comments (58) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Smoped #1 2 years ago

    These are the questions we all have been asking. I'm willing to let Microsoft's marketing geniuses to prove me wrong, but right now it looks to me like we're headed for a bit of a trainwreck.
  • barkertron #2 2 years ago

    I just want to see more games... it worries me a bit that so far there's still not been anything beyond the rather lacklustre showing at E3. The only thing that everyone seems to be enthusiastic about is the dance game (and maybe EA's fitness thing) - but what else is there? I really want to be excited by this, because I think the technology is ace - just give me something I want to play!
  • Gambit1977 #3 2 years ago

    I keep remembering the once £130 hd-DVD add-on being £10 on shelves...it's a massive gamble at the price it's at. We all hear about Sony and nintendo passing up this tech, it's maybe a generation too early. Interesting to read a positive spin on Sony and their console Market. Is there room for so much motion and 'casual' games? Time will tell, but I think Nintendo may just brush it off with eas
  • busboy33 #4 2 years ago

    If the goal is market expansion (which it seems to be based on the software revealed so far) then the price is too high. I know alot of "core" gamers that would spend $50-70 just for the voice-and-guesture controls for the dashboard and for Netflix . . . but $150? No.

    I don't understand the "monetization" side of the equation, although I do think the author is dead right in spotting these as the two competing interests at work. Isn't the Xbox division making a profit within Microsoft? If this is thought of as a "new consile launch" then the focus needs to be on marketshare, especially if they are steadily making a profit as they go. They have the luxury to aggressively expand and not worry about running at a deficit.

    Instead, they go after the higher price point, which by definition is going to hampert the adoption rate, hurting software support and any future plans.

    What the hell is going over there? I never really liked Allard, but its like the entire division has lost its mind ever since he left.
  • deez #5 2 years ago

    And also, from what I've heard, it's shit anyway. I love my xbox but kinect is really turning in to a mess, no games, laggy by all accounts, and top dollar for the experience. I really struggle to see it's much better than the eyetoy right now. It will prove to be a huge white elephant, and as a result I expect we'll see a new xbox announced in 2011- this thing will not extend the life of the platform...
  • UKLL #6 2 years ago

    Whatever it speaks of it reaks of failure.

    Poor pricing, crap games (so far anyway).
  • Geordiemp #7 2 years ago

    Will probably buy one in 2011 when its 50 bucks and there are some games.

    Not getting stung early on this one.
  • rotmm #8 2 years ago

    Price is the problem. At £60-£80 I'd probably have picked it up, if only to have the latest gadget.

    At £130? It's gonna have to have some very compelling experiences at that price, and I can't see myself being easily compelled.
  • coolbritannia #9 2 years ago

    Sorry how much does 2 wii controllers and nunchuks cost?
  • Geordiemp #10 2 years ago

    ^^

    Problem with the wii is you buy the system. A few months later you may add extra nunchuck / controller.

    People never look at the lifetime ownership cost.

    When you bopught your xbox, did you look at it and say £ 300 for live subs over its ownership ? no, cos its got Xparty chat man the xbots rant...funny is it not ?

    Move will do the same £ 50 in, then you add to it over time.

    Its called a small entry fee which is a good business model and works with most consumers, even if they shell out more eventually.......
    Edited by 2 at 24/07/10 @ 09:56
  • brseg #11 2 years ago

    The initial price point sucks, but I think people are overdoing the idea that MS is betting the farm on kinect. Its a step into the casual/family market (which the Wii will dominate for this gen), and even if its a moderate failure they'll learn from it ready for the next-gen consoles. It begins to remove the notion that xbox=hardcore and nintendo=family/casual.
    It will take time for kinect to get half-decent games, thats if devs bother at all. But yeah, 130 quid is nuts.
  • rotmm #12 2 years ago

    @brseg,

    I kinda agree about MS "dipping toes" into the casual market in prep for next gen, but I still think the pricing is a major, major issue.

    In reality, the only way developers are going to invest in anything other than shovelware for Kinect (and Move for that matter) is if there is a large market for them to sell into. At £130/$150 I doubt that Kinect will sell to more than 10% of the current 360 owner-base, and maybe a few million more with bundles by the end of 2012.

    That's a 10 million consumer market, which is not worthy of much in the way of investment by any publisher of note.

    And if it's seen as a failure this gen, no way will MS get any publisher support for whatever upgrade of it they are looking to include with their next gen machine.
  • lucky_jim #13 2 years ago

    @Gambit- I remember the HD-DVD add on being £3 at Blockbuster!

    As a "core gamer" (I hate these terms, but it'll do) who doesn't have the money or the desire to invest in a PC and continuous upgrades, I'd love a proper new platform. In terms of the whizzy stuff I like, consoles have (imo) fallen further behind PCs than at any time since the original Playstation came out. All the "Mii-too" control methods that Sony and Microsoft don't cut it with me, a new console is overdue- the consoles need their five-yearly catch up with PCs. I reckon we're two years away from one, not five. Kinect and Move will hopefully fail and force their hands.
  • metalangel #14 2 years ago

    I paid $200 for a 32X back in 1995. Kinect will be a similar disappointment (except I'm not buying it)
  • Machetazo #15 2 years ago

    "Instead, like a terrible driver, Microsoft is weaving all over the road."

    This! I also agree completely with the notion that there may be an internal split, in strategists, between some who push expansion, and those that emphasise existing and early adopter potential. The outcome to date, typically being that the expansionists may get their product, but no real marketing support.

    Microsoft's lack of consistency and clear direction disappoints me. Plus, the reality that when they do try to branch out, the result is unattractive. One of the pressing reasons towards me trading my first machine was because I couldn't support the approach I could see them adopting.
    The pricing's ill-placed, and the message muddled. Best to stay away, at least until the dust clears.
  • Bagpuss #16 2 years ago

    The high price is a great thing.....

    If it was a huge hit because of a low price, the 360 would drag on for another 3-4yrs........now, at its high price, it will be nothing more than a luxury add on for a small percentage of 360 owners....

    Which means MS will bring forward the realease of a new Xbox by 18-24mths.......E3 2012 unveiling and Christmas 2012 for said new console, me thinks.

  • monkfishjoe #17 2 years ago

    @barkertron

    'Child of Eden' looks promising, but I agree - not enough variety or interest in the games at the mo.
  • coolbritannia #18 2 years ago

    To Johnny casual this is the window to minority report hand controls though, I keep saying it, but as much as M$ push the gaming angle, it's as a gadget that this is going to sell. Move hasn't had anywhere near the press coverage Kinect has had. Bit of an own goal on M$'s part though as all that press was for Natal... I also think as much as they're pushing it now, this is nextbox tech they're releasing early to try and generate more revenue, which could backfire if early word of mouth is that it's over priced and has no games. Mind you, turns out that hasn't hurt the PS3.
  • witchdrash #19 2 years ago

    This pretty much sums it up, and as stated earlier showing stats of how getting the same functionality out of a wii or ps3 is more expensive isn't really the point, people look at, say the move, as £30/£50 in, the fact you need to buy a lot more to get the same functionality isn't really the point for that much people are willing to take a punt on the fact it will get good, at £129 relatively few existing people will purchase the kinect on the promise of future gaming greatness, and add in the cost of the whole kinect bundle and suddenly the Wii looks like a better prospect for new people coming in, doesn't matter the Wii is crap, casual gamers have proven that being shitty last gen tech with a mostly poor game base isn't really all that important, price is.
    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 11:22
  • Drpwnage #20 2 years ago

    Agree completely with the article, Kinect appears destined to fail at that price point, offering nothing to entice core-gamers to spend £129, let alone persuade potential Wii owners they should part with twice as much money for a 360/Kinect bundle.

    From the promise of E3 2009, Kinect has just plummeted in attractiveness, there has been nothing interesting shown apart from the Harmonix Dance game (even though it doesn't appeal to me). Laggy jumping or not Kudo Tsunoda may well be looking for another job by summer 2011......

  • ParanoidZombie #21 2 years ago

    I disagree with the article. If Kinect is meant to attract newcomers = people who don't have a 360 yet. => Those people will most likely buy the 299€ 4gig bundle, whose price is fairly attractive compared to the 199€ wii and the 349€ ps3. Now that you can plug 16gig USB keys and that the noise problem has been solved, this SKU is the real deal and is the "future of the brand" IMO.
  • Rubarack #22 2 years ago

    This is absolutely bang on, £130 isn't an unreasonable price for upstream consumers, just an unreasonable price for Kinect. At that price people will expect a significant enhancement to their gaming, not something fundamentally indivisible from the eye-toy. Needing a separate power brick is a serious blow as well. Comparing it to Move and 2 sub-controllers is missing the point, at that level Move is capable of things Kinect could never even dream of. The real comparison is with Kinect vs a Move with 1 full controller and one wand. At this level Move is comfortably cheaper and comfortably superior. But even then as stated here Move is far from guaranteed success.
  • dhughes147 #23 2 years ago

    @metalangel, your right about the 32x, I paid £180 for one and then neven bought a saturn. After the HD-DVD add on, kinect and possibly a blue ray player too late, as people are thinking about upgrading their console, people might start thinking they've given enough money to microsoft and move elsewhere.
  • TheJuriel #24 2 years ago

    "Priced £50 cheaper, Kinect would start to make sense"

    Pretty much summarizes it all. I know I was stunned at the price they ended up with.
  • metalangel #25 2 years ago

    @dhughes: Yup. In my view, as soon as you start requiring any addon that doesn't come with the most basic console sku (and I can't believe I just said that) you immediately cut out a vast proportion of potential customers. The 32X is a great example, I also have the Sega CD which had some amazing titles once you looked beyond the FMV stuff that was in vogue and being erroneously used to sell the platform (a bit like motion control, perhaps?). I'd go so far as to say that serious hardware addons have only worked in Japan, where stuff like the PC Engine CD systems and increasing powerful system cards were very popular.

    I see a similar thing happening now in software with DLC: as soon as you have something that doesn't come in the original box (even if it is freely downloadable) you have created a division between have and have nots. And there are always more have nots.
  • Devange #26 2 years ago

    the only kinect game I'm interested in is the dance game (a bit) but way more in Child of Eden.
    I think I'll wait till it drops 30 euro at least.

  • sneetch #27 2 years ago

    A big factor to consider is that everyone who owns a Wii for example has at least one controller and nunchuk. Everyone who owns a 360 does not have Kinect. If I were considering developing a game for Kinect I'd have to consider that the size of the kinect install base could seriously limit the number of copies I could sell. This will mean that I'd be inclined to steer clear until the base gets larger, no games until the install base hits a certain size, the install base won't hit that size until there are games though.

    At this price I think MS are going to have to break out their wallet big time in order to get people to develop.
  • a8a #28 2 years ago

    The problem is really in the initial investment people will have to make. PS Move and Wii controllers might add up when you start to add additional pieces of hardware, but very few people would buy multiple units to begin with. If you spend £50, and are so happy with the hardware that a couple of months down the road, you decide you want to spend another £50 so your friends can play with you, youre clearly already a pretty satisfied customer. Microsoft, on the other hand, is asking you to make the entire investment up-front, where there is no guarantee that you will like what you get. In order to convince people to do that, theyre going to need some real killer apps and a whole lot of excitement in the press.

    If theyre expecting the casual market to buy into XBox for the first time because of Kinect, theyre crazy. That's a £300 price point, without games. How much is a Wii these days?

    Edit: Oooh, not quite £300 apparently, Amazon are selling them for £250 with an arcade slim console. Or rather, RRP: £249.99. Price: £249.97. You save: £0.02. Don't fall over yourselves to order people!
    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 13:55
  • Ryze #29 2 years ago

    Not interested at £130 with a casual minigames collection.

    There's nothing there to improve shooting games, which I don't buy due to hating using the thumbstick to aim.

    There's nothing else that appeals to me at that price.

    No chance.

    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 13:54
  • Kami #30 2 years ago

    I've said it before, this is the danger when you use bleeding-edge tech and software, the pricing becomes ESSENTIAL to get right. Let's be frank with each other here, when the PS3 came out - was that pricing a reasonable ask? For the majority of consumers, the answer was a resounding "No!" and Sony suffered for it.

    This is not to belittle the tech or software at hand because, ironically I suppose, I think it has a bright future ahead of it. I like it. You're reading this, so you'll probably have a reasonable idea and like the concept too. But for most people, they'll only see an expensive item that uses ideas from years ago - they won't know, understand or care about what else Kinect brings to the table, for the price they're asking the main use is an idea from years ago and it just won't add up.

    I assume even at the price Kinect will be retailed at, there'll be substantial losses to recoup and like most new "hardware", it's the software that is where this needs to work. Taking into consideration the only examples we've seen so far have been... well, a little off, doesn't bode well. You can't announce a price with that kind of cloud over your head, especially not one of this size. You may as well stick a lightning conductor on your mast!

    I know some will lap this up, but then, some people lapped up the iPhone 4 and when Jobs told them to just hold the phone differently to stop the reception issues, a large chunk of people defended him. Fanboys and fangirls will simply stick their fingers in their ears to these problems and buy it blindly - as they always do. And that's fine, because the market quite likes that kind of fanatical early adopter - so yes I can believe the confidence of an initial sell-through. We'd be a bit thick to think it'll be a bust from day one. That issue will creep in once the early fanatical adopters are done and it's up to the average consumer to decide if it's worth the asking price...

    And that may be a big ask.
  • FairgroundTown #31 2 years ago

    I agree that the pricing seems mad... and then I remember how many Wii Fit BBs Nintendo have sold for £70 each - mostly to people who have never bought another BB-compatible game.

    (Not knocking the BB - I bought it, and one other BB-compatible game (Family Ski) and it is fun... but it was very expensive fun if I think about it rationally.)
  • Skywise #32 2 years ago

    I think MS at first believed their own market expansion stories, but now they've reconsidered and just don't want to lose money on Kinect.

    For 80 euros launch price I would have bought it, but since it seems destined to crash I'll stay well clear of it now :)
  • gnrlstuart #33 2 years ago

    atm, £130 is an audacious sum to be expected to fork out.
  • Xboxfanuk #34 2 years ago

    My wife wants a Kinect. I am not bothered but I think Microsoft could be overlooking the biggest market builder for Xbox and that is "gaming girlfriends". Their boyfriends/partners are core gamers, but they aren't interested in guns and such. However with Avatars they brought it into the right direction, they needed to bring some first party games for Avatars. But instead Microsoft has done very little with them. Also games like You're in the Movies and Scene It were high trumped and both have gone away without building on it.

    The core and casuals love Avatars and love being able to find games they both love. Why has Microsoft not seen this.
  • Xboxfanuk #35 2 years ago

    My wife wants a Kinect. I am not bothered but I think Microsoft could be overlooking the biggest market builder for Xbox and that is "gaming girlfriends". Their boyfriends/partners are core gamers, but they aren't interested in guns and such. However with Avatars they brought it into the right direction, they needed to bring some first party games for Avatars. But instead Microsoft has done very little with them. Also games like You're in the Movies and Scene It were high trumped and both have gone away without building on it.

    The core and casuals love Avatars and love being able to find games they both love. Why has Microsoft not seen this.
  • Bremenacht #36 2 years ago

    What's particularly poor on Microsoft's part is that they seem to believe that this type of motion control can only appeal to the type of people who would already have or want to have a Wii. Rather than attempt to get it integrated (to any degree) into core titles at an early stage, like Reach or Gears (or any serious title), they've gone straight for the casual's pockets. They'll not find much money there, seeing as Nintendo's already hoovered up most of the casual cash.

    I believe someone like J.Allard would have had the guts to risk annoying core players in order to win them over to different - or perhaps additional - controls for the top titles.
  • 43n1m4 #37 2 years ago

    Looking at many different forums on the internet, and it's the same story - most people find it too expensive. MS seems to forget that their existing customers are going to adopt the new tech first - and at present they haven't been thrown a bone. Child of Eden looks fun, but not nearly 'core' enough to impres core gamers on a large scale. On the other hand, new customers will be able to buy an xbox360 with Kinect for just 300$ - but its gonna require large scale marketing in order to reach them outside the mouth-to-mouth and viral marketing which is much more effective, but requires the help and aid from core gamers. The very same people who has been neglected almost completely, if you look at the release games for Kinect.

    I'm not saying Kinect will fail. In fact I don't hope so, as the tech seems impressive (and especially considering the potential in RPGs, strategy and similar genres). But MS has made some serious mistakes trying to sell us their add-on. It seems like they have overestimated the hardware and underestimated the consumer. And releasing it at a 150$ pricepoint, while the world is still recovering from the financial crisis just seems like poor sense of judgment. I hope the price drops 40$ and the gaming experience lives up to the potential eventually, but I have slided from 'must buy at launch' to a more cautious 'let's wait and see', which MS can't be too happy about.

    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 19:35
  • theonlyix #38 2 years ago

    LOL. If you can produce for example, 100 000 units at startup, who would you sell them to?

    1. Your fanbase who can continue to market your console so that batch 2 will sell to EVERYONE

    or

    2. Casual gamers who might buy the thing, use it for a while and then forget it.


    Dont worry, Kinect is too good NOT to succeed.
  • busboy33 #39 2 years ago

    @Xboxfanuk:

    I think you're right that there is a market on "gamer girlfriends". The two people I know are both family men, and they can get it with the "cover" that the wife can play with the exercise stuff and the little kids can play with Skittles. It's definitely a solid avenue to plug, and would undoubtedly be one of the best approaches to get current owners to adopt it.

    But is that going to be enough to make all this worth it? It's a line of attack, sure . . . but at the moment it seems like the ONLY line of attack, and I don't think that's going to win the day.
  • Vanmunt #40 2 years ago

    to be honest I think it looks total shit, but I like playing games sat on my ass drinking tea... but if those dancing and yoga games are really good then it could sell loads, as dancing is the fasted growing leisure persuit!
    Edited by 1 at 24/07/10 @ 22:35
  • d00dl #41 2 years ago

    I think it will be a success but the initial price point is not there. Kinect is not a console in itself so charging nearly as much as a 360 Arcade or Wii is simply daft. They should bite the bullet and drop it to £99 with game before launch and let the retailers make the packages and bundles as they see fit, as pointed out by trebell. A 360 arcade with Kinect should be closer to £200 with a couple of Kinect games and an entertainment pack.

    If MS take a hit on it they will get the traction they need over the christmas 2010 period. Do it MS or risk bungling what could indeed be a big game changer. No comment on Move but the cost of a new PS3 + Move + Move Game will need to be around £250 and not £300. I think MS are counting on £300 so are positioning the Arcade + Kinect @ £250 which is still way too much.

    I will be buying Kinect regardless as I always keep my promises to my daughter. I only wish that my little sunshine will appreciate that I threw a possible £30 - £50 in the bin just to get her one in time. Guess I better put in my preorder for that zavvi dance central bundle!
  • Moz #42 2 years ago

    Not convinced the price point is as big an issue as everyone thinks.

    Kinect and Move are both the best proposition for giving you a singular console that suits the whole family. Where as families have been buying a Wii plus a 360 or PS3 they'll now just get a 360 or PS3 and their respective motion controller add on.
  • gjgjg #43 2 years ago

    hmm, initially it sounds expensive, and unless the line up improves i wont bbe buying. but after considering the move option its only 30 more:
    ps-mote will be 50, the ps-nunchuck will be 25-30 and the pseye is already 20... so considering how much more knct can do, it isnt that badly priced afterall!

    again with out the software its irrelivant, no sale!
  • Nighthawk_08 #44 2 years ago

    @gjgjg

    Ps move starter pack £49.99. (ps eye and ps move). Ps navigator £24.99. That's a few pennys less than £75. Not £100 at all. And don't bang on bout if I want to get my friends round and play splitscreen/party games. There shit so it won't be happenin. I play online or solo and need one setup. Face it xbots, kinnect looks awful, not because it ain't clever. But because there isn't one game announced so far that's got any1 exci
  • bdgr #45 2 years ago

    didn't Sega try to improve and expand the Mega-drive with the 32X add-on?!! And look how that turned out for them!
  • Arwin #46 2 years ago

    Apparently pre-sales are good enough though, though to be fair I only know about the US where it is relatively more attractively priced - perhaps European prices are speculating on the EU going down further. No matter all my other reservations about Kinect though (which are very, very extensive), it's always easier to bring the price down than back up. They're probably expecting the hardcore to partly fund the Arcade bundle that they want to sell to the new crowd, for whom $299 for the Arcade bundle is reasonably acceptable at least in the U.S.

    Think about it - as a gamer I'm not interested much in what Kinect has to offer, but how big is the market for a $299 full body dance trainer or a $299 personal fitness coach/trainer? Wii Fit sold a tonne, and that was with a Wii-Balance board. Total cost of ownership for both the Wii and the board end up very close to that $299. Demand for sports titles like EA Active's version on the 360, which I have to say is one of the very few titles that looks markedly superior on the 360, may just be big enough all by itself to fulfill demand for a fair while. I personally don't even have room enough to set up Kinect, from the looks of things, and Move interests me a heck of a lot more. But Kinect may well succeed in an entirely different market, and it's pricing not as bad as it may look.

    That said, Microsoft will have to be very careful though - their games marketshare could be under serious threat.
  • GamerG #47 2 years ago

    New buyers will probably be paying £249 for the console and kinect, the £129.99 price is irrelevant to them imo
  • Ryze #48 2 years ago

    @trebell


    It has an expensive, early adopter launch price. The bundle you showed was too expensive.

    £80 with Dance Central and I'd get it on day one. Until I get that price or better, I'm not buying.

    I did the same with the PS3, as it wasn't worth £425 to me. I waited until I could get a BC model for £200. I got it for £215 last year, with HDMI and a PSeye - so I now have a head start on my Move setup.

    Cost of entry: £35

    I wont get a NavCon until I have 5 or more games that need it.
  • Vyggo #49 2 years ago

    Hmm, seems they deleted my comment that it's kinda weird that a professional business writer talks about the price of a seperate controller when talking about market EXPANSION. You can argue that the bundle is also too expensive- which I don't think it is- but the whole premise of the article is just wrong.
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/10 @ 19:04
  • Codger81 #50 2 years ago

    If Kinnect can put together a quality catalogue of software I'd consider buying it, but I certainly won't buy it speculatively.
  • Kamata #51 2 years ago

    This is a new product with a peak price for early adopters and techfreaks. Once MS have tested the waters the price will drop.
    The bigger picture will be marketed and Kinect should fly off the shelves. It completes the High Def (family orientated) home
    entertainment experience.

    Who wouldnt want to wave at the television without a controller and get it to respond? It's truly next generation.
    If MS market this device as they should, i dont think people will even think of the price.

    I can only see MS going from strength to strength in the console business....their online component is just light years ahead of the competition. If Kinect fails, which i believe highly unlikely...they still have an incredible business model.
  • BlinxHDD #52 2 years ago

    "Who wouldnt want to wave at the television without a controller and get it to respond?"

    Anyone that wants a responsive, consistently reliable controller.
  • Zero Beat #53 2 years ago

    Every demonstration I've seen of Kinect where the body's mapped to a Wii Mii, it makes spastic movements or bends unrealistically, moves too late or even predicts the player making a much larger movement than they do, swatting an arm 90 degrees when the player just flicked their arm slightly. There's too much interpolation filling in large tracking gaps resulting in little finesse, fidelity.
  • irve77 #54 2 years ago

    I agree completely.
    MS need the Kinect to sell out over christmas and at that price it's going to be a struggle unless they really throttle the supply.

    even the £250 console bundle is overpriced compared to the £150 that most places charge for a Wii ( £130 in some others !)

    I would have bought it at £50 just for navigating menus and it recognising me when i sign in and for a fitness trainer to help get rid of the old belly . but at £130 it's just not justifyable.

    Anyone watching sony's E3 conference when they announced the move for $50 and then the complete silence when they mentioned anouther $30 for the sub controller knows that these late entries are overpriced.

    MS' problem is that it's believeing it's own hype .. Everyone else sees Kinect as a cut down version of the Natal system annouced last year and at double the price anyone wanted.

    In the end MS is failing both groups for "core" the games don't entice and for "casual" the price is too high

    it's a lose lose ! or epic fail as the kids would say

  • Geordiemp #55 2 years ago

    Ps2 eye toy

    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=OpnvR_j5nBc
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=OpnvR_j5nBc
    [/link]

    Watch last section, using hands and feet.

    The moves eye (Eyetoy) could do dance central, and is probably just a short timed exclusive between harmonix and MS to promote Kinect.

    Ps3 Move getting dance central full body tracking would kill Kinect, which would be a good thing for gamers.
  • sjmlondon #56 2 years ago

    We might be overlooking the fact that most blokes / hardcore gamers who use this forum are more than happy playing Gears, Battlefield and Halo using their existing controllers sitting on the sofa. However, if Microsoft get the advertising right there are going to be a load of kids at Christmas wanting Kinnect so they can stand in front of the tv playing with that tiger or reinacting Britain's Got Talent with one of the dance programmes.

    Calls of 'Daddy, Daddy, Daddy' might shift a few units quite a few regardless of price and an extra £250 Xbox/ Kinnect bundle makes sense so the kids can play upstairs, mum can do her interactive yoga / fitness, whilst daddy plays Halo Reach in the lounge.
  • vizzini #57 2 years ago

    sjmlondon: Calls of 'Daddy, Daddy, Daddy' might shift a few units quite a few regardless of price

    If the Wii had sold its first 2million units that way then I might agree, but they had to launch with a cube title in Zelda Twilight Princess; and make the Wii version a Widescreen exclusive, to sell the consoles at launch to core gamers; who in turn showcased Wii sports to everyone they knew.

    Without core gamer adoption first, I fail to see how a ₤130 camera is going to get the opportunity to sell to the casual market, by any chance of positive experience or word of mouth selling.

    Maybe I've underestimated the effectiveness of Microsoft's rather lame “I'm a PC” and “it was my idea” campaign; they've used to sell their latest O/S. But I still think this is going to be a monumentally hard sell.
  • ozzzy189 #58 2 years ago

    Are they really so blinded by their own arrogance ? Do they really really think this thing will sell at the price listed ? If so, this has epic fail written all over it. Sega 32X ? Megacd ? Seems there are lessons to be learned from other people's mistakes here. Not interested, certainly since that chip was removed to save money and was reported to affect the whole response time, and the price is a joke, right ?