Threat Level
Satoru Iwata's warnings of a threat to the industry ring hollow.
Published as part of our sister-site GamesIndustry.biz's widely-read weekly newsletter, the GamesIndustry.biz Editorial, is a weekly dissection of an issue weighing on the minds of the people at the top of the games business. It appears on Eurogamer after it goes out to GI.biz newsletter subscribers.
Nintendo's Satoru Iwata is one of the most successful executives in the games industry - or, indeed, in any industry, having steered his company from the brink of irrelevance to global market leadership in the space of a few short years.
He's also a rather wonderful speaker, whose event keynotes, even when they haven't been laden with the announcements craved by the press and gamers, have generally been full of warmth for the games business and its creative process, and wisdom regarding Nintendo's rise to power and future strategy.
As a rule, I find it hard to disagree with Iwata when he speaks. It would take a fair bit of persuasion for me to want to drop my chips on a different square to a man on such an extraordinary winning streak.
However, while his widely reported talk at GDC in San Francisco this week unquestionably called the present state of play in the games business accurately, it's tough to agree with his conclusions - or the stark warning they seemed to present.
A core theme of the talk was a theme which has been widely explored in many different places, including these columns, over the past couple of years - namely the downward price pressure faced by videogames as cheaper competition bubbles up from the bottom of the market, in the form of smartphone and online titles utilising everything from cheap price points to freemium or ad-supported models.
Iwata's concern is that the existing retail games market is somewhat over-saturated with titles, whereas the app store markets are "drowning", with tens of thousands of options available to consumers.
The low prices of those titles reflect lower development budgets, he conceded, but he fretted that they still suggest very small revenue flows, painting a nightmare scenario of game developers being unable even to pay themselves wages with the money they make.
"The people who make business decisions on the mobile side are smart people, and the price points they've reached aren't arbitrary."
It's not a huge logical stretch that he's making, of course, but Iwata generalises too much. For a start, you couldn't tell it from the rhetoric, but he's talking about a threat to the business model Nintendo has adhered to in recent years, not a general threat to game development or the wider industry.
For another thing, he laid the blame at absolutely the wrong door in his speech - accusing the proprietors of app stores of cultivating this kind of market in order to sell smartphones with no interest in game quality or revenue streams.
Of course, that's true in an absolute sense - Apple (and Google, and Nokia, and RIM, and Microsoft's mobile side, and everyone else running an application store) doesn't really care about games in the way that a massive software publisher like Nintendo does.
However, neither has the company exactly had to push developers to lower price points. It created an open pricing model - developers themselves set the pricing, and they've almost universally settled low.
Why? Is it because, as Iwata's talk seems to suggest, they're all intent on running lemming-like off the edge of a cliff (not that lemmings actually do that, but you know what I mean), hurtling headlong into bankruptcy for the want of a decent cashflow spreadsheet?
Is the smartphone gaming market really a financial disaster in the making, one whose repercussions threaten to engulf the rest of the industry? Iwata didn't put it in quite those terms, but that's the logical endpoint of the argument he was making.
However, that simply isn't the case. The people who make business decisions on the mobile side are smart people, and the price points they've reached aren't arbitrary - they're based on exactly the same projections regarding costs, unit sales and supplementary revenue streams that every other successful business in the world employs.
On a platform that's wonderful at generating large-scale sales of low-priced content and absolutely excels at post-purchase revenue through DLC, in-app purchasing or advertising, as well as having a low cost of development, it just happens that the required price tag for profitability is relatively low.
Iwata doesn't like that, and that's fine. His company's business, like the business of a great many people reading this, involves selling more expensively developed software at more expensive price points, and they don't like seeing downward price pressure or the spectre of customer attention being grabbed by cheaper experiences.
It's a clear and obvious threat, and plenty of people have observed that the 3DS, as an extremely relevant example, is going to have to face up to some tough competition from iOS in the coming years. That doesn't, however, mean that it logically follows that the smartphone gaming business isn't making money, or is a threat to gaming as a whole.
If anything, this is an exercise in picking your battles. I'd draw your attention to another story that's been bubbling away this week - the release of the first gameplay videos from EA's upcoming Battlefield 3, along with some pretty strong rhetoric about taking on Activision's Call of Duty franchise.
These are multi-million-dollar games in their development phase which have the potential to turn into multi-billion-dollar games at retail - and there's seemingly plenty of space for them to duke it out in the market.
Meanwhile, we're being inundated with fresh information about gigantic, sprawling RPG title Dragon Age 2, and teased with the first trailer for another dragon-sporting RPG epic, Skyrim. Some of the first hands-on previews of Sony's The Last Guardian, five years in development, have hit the internet in the past couple of days. Killzone 3 and Bulletstorm are doing just fine in terms of sales, and Nintendo itself is about to drop the undoubtedly gigantic Pokemon Black and White on the UK.
Is the top end of the market in crisis? No, it's not. Break-out hit titles are still doing what break-out hit titles have always done - selling lots of units and making lots of money - and they're doing it in a host of genres and demographics from "core gamer" right out to the kids market.
"Iwata is dead right on one point - one answer to this is to innovate and to progress the science of games design."
The threat of smartphone and online downstream gaming has never been to those games, and it's disingenuous to suggest that that's the case. Certainly, any new form of entertainment - especially a cheap one - is never going to be welcomed by the existing media, but are shooter fans really going to eschew Bulletstorm because they're too busy with Angry Birds or another iOS treat? That audience exists. It's there. It's being served. It's not going away.
Rather, the threat is to the segment of the games space that can't quite justify itself in the face of 99p App Store offerings. It's not, ironically, Nintendo's key titles that are most likely to suffer, although the company will have to join the rest of the industry in re-examining how it handles development and pricing in the face of this new pressure. Rather, it's the countless shovelware titles which have made their way onto the DS and Wii that are seriously going to suffer when consumers cast a critical eye over where their gaming money is being spent.
It's a rough shout for the developers who are involved in working on those kinds of titles - because, let's face it, nobody joins this industry dreaming of making short-cycle shovelware - but ultimately, if your £35 Wii title doesn't entertain consumers as much as a 99p iPad application, then it's not some wicked conspiracy that's putting your job at risk. It's pure economics.
If another company can make a solid income out of entertaining consumers for a fraction of the price that you're charging, then in a purely evolutionary sense, they're fitter and they're going to survive.
Iwata is dead right on one point - one answer to this is to innovate and to progress the science of games design. Make better games, and do it in smarter ways that reduce cost and risk, so that you can tap into developers' creativity and pursue break-out hits rather than safe mediocrity.
That's going to be vital in the years to come - because with the absolute best online, smartphone and tablet titles being priced much cheaper than the absolute worst console games, the ability to launch something mediocre and make a return is going to dissipate rapidly.
Iwata's true concern is that with it will go a fairly sizable chunk of Nintendo's third-party catalogue and licensing income. How he steers his company through this challenge will be a major test of the creative thinking and business intellect that he has demonstrated so often in the past.
If you work in the games industry and want more views, and up-to-date news relevant to your business, read our sister website GamesIndustry.biz, where you can find this weekly editorial column as soon as it is posted.
You may also like...
-
Going Hardcore in Diablo 3 66
-
Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Review 123
-
Judge recommends US Xbox 360 ban 152
-
Japan chart: My Little Sister Can't Possibly Be This Cute takes top spot 68
-
App of the Day: This Could Hurt 3
-
Growing Paynes: How Remedy's Hero Went Rockstar in Max Payne 3 37
-
Diablo 3 Review 242
-
Inside Xbox team set up on their own 31
-
Sony developing Shadow of the Colossus movie 39
-
Wii U Darksiders 2 graphics "at least as good" as PS3, Xbox 360 versions' 55
-
Street Fighter 25th Anniversary Collector's Set announced 40
-
Diablo 3: Blizzard nerfs monk in first hotfix 49
-
Face-Off: Max Payne 3 146
-
Dragon's Dogma Review 126
-
Diablo 3 fastest-selling PC game ever, biggest PC game launch in history 70
Comments (51) Latest comment 1 year ago
Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!
Comment below viewing threshold Show
I look at some of the launch 3DS titles and would happily pay £30 for them. Problem is I'm not willing to pay £200+ for the kit needed to do so.
Everyone and his dog has a mobile phone of one sort or another, so the cost of entry is not an issue in that market. Factor in the cost of software and traditional handhelds are looking more and more like a luxury item too far.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Comment below viewing threshold Show
What this all might mean in the longer run is that the market will get segregated. There are the indie or small titles like the ones on iOS devices and then there are the big budget games like COD.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
It will be very interesting to see the retail price and the uptake of that game. Hudson Soft's Sudoku Master for the DS sold for £20 in 2006 and probably did very well. I wonder how well it would do now at that price point when I happily play a solid version of Sudoku on my phone for free.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Comment below viewing threshold Show
GOOD!
Comment below viewing threshold Show
[link url=http://gdc2011.nintendo.com/
]http://gdc2011.nintendo.com/
[/link]
It's the whole thing, no edits or anything else, same as the live.
Now then. The article starts by claiming Nintendo was almost irrelevant before Iwata. Portable gaming hello? First party games like Mario always selling millions even on the home console market despite "third place"? Massive profits for Nintendo? Do some research, guy, you weren't born yesterday.
He then continues into claiming Iwata generalised too much. How did he generalise when he praised Apple (and pretty much every other major company) and pointed out the success of great games like Angry Birds?
His speech was mainly directed to developers. The content is king moto was the core, and means developers should make games stand out from the flood of shovelware. He didn't say you'll never succeed because of Apple or anything of the sort. He just said, try hard enough, and you will stand out and succeed even if your price is higher than $1 due to the costs involved.
What the frak is wrong with that? Iwata's points are merely twisted around in the usual Nintendo can do nothing right crap gaming outlets have relied on for the past decade. And yet you have readers believing this sensationalist troll instead of going to hear what was actually said. Sad. It was an inspiring speech directed to developers. Nothing more, but certainly nothing less.
He then went on to say they haven't done as good as they should in the online space (so no, it's not sour grapes), and outlined the ways 3DS is better, not only in content delivery, but also in having ways for developers to promote their unique content with built in screenshots, trailers, and links to the official sites, which is a first for a console store (although Wii was close with the Nintendo Channel, having all these in the same space, for ALL available games is best).
Do you people think the AAA type output that YOU DO love so much (considering the ratings on this website) can be sustained as free/$1 appslications? Do you think you'll enjoy Gameloft's Dead Space on iOS as much as Dead Space 1 & 2?
Iwata wasn't defending Nintendo's business, he was defending the majority of the industry including Microsoft and Sony, but in your rush to attack Nintendo you fail to consider the full implications of your "article".
Yes, $1 games made with no budget by one guy in his basement being successful is great (it is) but that doesn't mean $30-$50 games (again, the majority of the industry YOU TOO enjoy) will disappear because consumers can and do see the value of full price games, a prime example of that being Nintendo games' sales that remain consistently high even on their least succesful hardware.
It is up to developers to make something that the customers will see as worthwhile, rather than have say, 80% of EA and Activision laid off so that they can focus on 10-man-made iOS apps. And then have those laid off open yet more iOS app studios to add to the hundreds that have already opened. Do you think each and every one of them will get an Angry Birds to live off of? They won't.
Regardless, Nintendo is safe thanks to their quality output. Third parties aren't and therefor should listen to Iwata. Content is king.
Edited for spelling, formatting and another point here or there...
Comment below viewing threshold Show
have to say, Iwata's GDC tantrum (which is what it was), demonstrated a lack of understanding of basic economics and was an open beg for the industry to turn on apps. After buying Nintendo products without fear that they were on the edge, Iwata's speech made me feel, for the first time, that Nintendo must be in more serious financial issues than thought. It sounded too much like a desperate plea from a dying man. That at the end of the day is a terrible performance to give for the share holders.
This was extremely poor judgement.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Comment below viewing threshold Show
You're one of the few people I've seen online not hurting your knee against the table after Iwata's speech. The industry IS headed towards irrelevance if devs. don't pick up the ball. Nintendo will always do fine, one way or another. They freaking saved the industry twice over, what with the Atari Crash and again with the Wii.
What we as gamers are facing is a changing definition and industry model -- milking the customer to no end. Sure you can buy $1 games, but every single hit basically has in-game purchasing enabled. That's no design for innovative software.
It's a shame people aren't listening to the words out of his mouth. One of the most misunderstood incidences in the industry I've yet seen (other than the PS3 pricing debacle).
Comment below viewing threshold Show
That said, I don't think most 'core' gamers see an iPod as a substitute for a DS or PSP as it's difficult or impossible to pull off a lot of game types with just touch and swipe.
Plus, if the likes of Apple don't figure out a way to make their smartphones into better gaming devices then people will inevitably get bored, there's only so much you can do with such simple mechanics and on such a small budget.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
In fact he went on to talk about the market having the potential to expand even further than it has already, which would be going against the concept of the market being under threat, don't you think?
Now, if the rise of the app store threatens cheap shovelware, then that most certainly does not threaten Nintendo as they are not the shovelware peddlers on their consoles. That title goes to the likes of Ubisoft with their Imagine Babiez or whatever other nonsense they've been putting out on Wii and DS, and I don't see how the loss of stuff like that would have a negative impact on Nintendo. If anything, it would improve the overall quality of the respective gaming libraries of the Wii and DS.
Then again, the app store is laden with even more shovelware than the Wii and DS combined, so that's cheap shovelware being threatened by even cheaper shovelware. If they take each other out leaving the quality games on all platforms, then I say that'd be all the better.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
I think the overarching point Iwata was making is he realises it's no good anymore picking a market. We're all wising up to quality, and for the most part the message is to get what you pay for - a £30 3DS game needs to deliver months of fun, whereas a 59p app can afford to keep you entertained for a week or two.
It's interesting that almost everyone misunderstood the speech Iwata made, as if collectively the gaming media wants to kick Nintendo in the balls... now, I'm not saying that's the reality, but I think by and large in the media, the point wasn't simply missed - I get the impression people didn't want to get the point. And that makes me sad, because a lot of what Iwata said was good, sound, rational stuff and what the conference he was speaking to wanted to hear.
But I suppose there is truth in that old line, isn't there? Never let the truth get in the way of a good story... or a damned good witch hunt...
edited for a stupid typo. I r hurp de durp.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Comment below viewing threshold Show
The horrible truth is that a developer can make about as much money off a single (high end price range) app sale as they would from a retail sale. And the game app is cheaper to make. And it has the potential sell lots more on a casual platform.
For the platform holders, this is a horrible development. The only ray of light is that iPhone and Android are only competing with the handheld consoles.
But then there is the emergence of products like Google TV, the possibility of Apple TV running apps one day, onlive and the possibility that soon, a new TV Will contain more processing power than an Xbox 360.
This is all really bad news for Iwata. But it is pretty awesome for gamers and for third party developers. And when everybody can self-published, everybody will be indie devs.
Again, teh internet puts the middleman out of business.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Yes many publishers are now finally making a profit this gen...but look how many billions were lost by many publishers for the first few years of this generation. Will they make those losses up? Doubtful IMO.
...and look how many quality devs have been wiped out this gen.. Bizarre Creations being the latest casualty. Hardly a sign of success.
Then we have the low end apps. How much money does the average one make? Sure we get the success stories like Angry Birds....but most games/apps make under 10k...and as more devs flood that market, that average is likely to fall lower and lower.
Neither strategy is safe in the long run.
Iwata will have been talking from a selfish point of view to a degree.... but it doesn't mean he's wrong.
Of course if you truly think Iwata is wrong and Nintendo will end losing billions and go 3rd party......then other devs should be very scared of not supporting them...
...after all, most claim they don't release quality games on Nintendo hardware as they can't compete. So by their own reckoning..
...they're screwed if Nintendo ever start releasing games on other machines.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Cliffy B said it best in his address; games either go big or go indie. Nintendo is doing neither.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
I think the top end of the market is crowded, but then - Nintendo don't need to worry about that. Mario, Zelda, Metroid et al sell, and sell well clearly. So maybe, being GDC and the audience Iwata was speaking to, it was more of a stark warning that quality will always have more of an impact - and it does, it does, it so so does. Eight years later we get BG&E in HD, and what is sadder is I love it more now than I ever did. It was quality when it came out, it is quality now, and we remember that.
Apps costing between £1-£8 are fine and there is a place for them - Angry Birds, PvZ et al are fantastic games but again, these are QUALITY games with very small budgets. The price point tends to reflect the budget. But equally in that lower bracket, there's more competition and its becoming muddied by shovelware and crap. Even there, it's quality that people will remember - I love PvZ still. There are lots of things I've downloaded that my brain just simply forgets - it filters out what isn't good enough, so I'm left with enough room to remember what is quality.
Here's my take. I've forgotten FFXIII by and large, just remembered that it bored me - but I remember Grandia, the original one, the whole thing (I'd pay for it to run on my 360 or PS3, with or without HD). I've forgotten Black Ops, but I vividly remember Crysis (even though my PC at the time threw massive hissyfits trying to run it). I remember SSF4, I've kinda almost forgotten about SoulCalibur 4 bar the big wobbly tits and that alien who wanted the Soul Edge to roger the universe to Super Happy Finish. I've forgotten EQ2, but I defend to the death that WoW did things much better (although I am quick to conceed that it's not always consistant on quality). I've forgotten Resident Evil 5, because the awesome that was Resident Evil 4 just refuses to accept its existance. We REMEMBER quality.
People think making fast money from gaming is easy - MMOs, quick cheap tower defence games, generic FPS #23471D-7. What the developers wanted to hear I think is that someone out there values quality over quantity, and gets that there is a market for a good product even when the naysayers claim otherwise. Which probably made Iwata's speech quite a standout moment.
But then, he was right to remind people about budgets, because eventually technology WILL level out. And then it will be harder to differentiate - you won't be able to buy talent, talent will make money. Again, tied into the idea that "Quality matters". It will be harder to make a splash by just throwing bags of money at the problem.
Is the idea that "Quality Matters" really so hard to absorb? Okay, Nintendo have let a lot of shit through their doors but then, so has Sony and Microsoft and Apple... if we're going to generalise, let's be honest and target everyone equally. There's a lot of shit out there.
And I, for one, prefer quality. Which is why even though BG&EHD is already completed on my 360 and I have all the achievements, I for one still don't care. Best 800MSP I've ever spent in all honesty. Quality matters.
Let us hope that in five years, Nintendo stand by that argument...
Comment below viewing threshold Show
"They freaking saved the industry twice over, what with the Atari Crash and again with the Wii."
The industry would have recovered after Atari regardless of whether it was Nintendo or Sega that was there are the time. As for the Wii, yes it captured a lot of non-gaming public attention and they bought one to play Wii Sports or Wii Fit, but how many other games have they bought for it, and more worryingly, what was the quality of software that they did buy?
The reason why there is so much dross on the Wii is because any family orientated party game would sell well, whereas a well crafted "traditional" game would sell a very low number. Hence, now with games only costing 59p on the App store, people are more inclined to take a punt rather than spend £40 for an equally dismal experience.
I think that Nintendo should be worried as they've been the advocate of cheap gaming this generation but they have just been undercut in a way that they know they cannot compete with.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
First of all, I think everyone should just go listen to Iwata's keynote because I seriously doubt the author did.
[link url=http://gdc2011.nintendo.com/
]http://gdc2011.nintendo.com/
[/link]
It's the whole thing, no edits or anything else, same as the live.
This is what you should get from Iwata's speech instead of this "fear" bullshit you spew. It's a mere humble warning from a speech intended to empower the actual developers into putting their best work out there to stand out from the crowd. Regardless of their intended market, be it $1 or $50. Just like Nintendo keeps demonstrating is possible with their own titles, just like the examples he brought up, including Angry Birds, a game on a platform you pretend he dissed.
He never implied downloadable games in general, Apple, or any one company are bad for the industry and he admitted Nintendo should step their game up in this field also, starting with the 3DS eshop offering developers more tools for the promotion of their content (which is king) by including trailers, screenshots and links to official websites within the same interface, a first for a console estore.
By attacking Iwata and in turn Nintendo for his empowering speech, you're siding with the quantity over quality mentality third parties fostered on Wii (that Iwata criticised for when he mentioned their games are from their c and d teams so it's natural they don't sell as much as Nintendo's top tier products) and move on to do the same with facebook and iOS despite its negative (mostly for them, as Nintendo games sell regardless thanks to their quality) effects on the former. You're attacking the industry you too love, unless you're ok with replacing Dead Space 1 & 2 by Visceral with Dead Space iOS by Gameloft (imagine what willl happen if Gameloft has nothing to copy from next time).
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Here's an idea, Satoru; put Super Mario World on the app store for 59p. One week only. You'll clean up. Low price points can seem odd, but they obviously work for talented and/or lucky developers.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Just help me out a sec so that I can make a better judgement on who's opinion/interpretation is possibly more valid:
I know Satoru Iwata is the CEO and somewhat successful strategic mind behind at least some of the profitable success of a multi-billion dollar, profitable games company.
But beyond clicking a controller, shakin' a Wiimote and writing [seemingly misinformed] articles to earn a crust as a games journalist, what's your background of hands-on achievements and expertise in relation to this industry again?
Thought so.
Science-fiction or science-fact? As much as I love dipping into Eurogamer, quite often these articles turn out to be nothing more than science-fu**ed.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
If we see more titles (i.e shovelware) switch from full price retail to 3DSware download (i.e lower priced), and if they price Virtual Console titles really low (£1-3), then I can't imagine Nintendo wouldn't be able to win over the app-store generation yet and keep their casual crown.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Super Street Fighter IV on PS3, on launch day was 30 Euros everywhere in high street shops like Game and gamestop
Super Street Fighter IV on 3DS, on launch dat will be 45 Euros, in HMV, Gamestop and Game
why is this?
I know this isn't the same as Iphone prices, but it's another case of Nintendo games bein overpriced compared to (Superior) versions on other formats
Steel Diver is particularly worrying, everyone thinks it looks like an Iphone title that would go for a fraction of the cost Nintendo is asking for on 3DS
Super Mario Galaxy and Zelda Skyward Sword will undoubtedly earn their higher asking price, but many Wii and 3DS titles are clearly overpriced, the balls in your court Iwata, what are you going to do about it?
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Why would you call SSFIV on other systems superior anyway? On 3DS it has all the same gameplay, similar graphics (levels aren't animated, but hey, it's all in 3D) and a host of minor additions like the spot and street pass stuff, the easy play mode, etc. Not to mention it's portable. I'd say it's as good as anywhere overall and it's only one's particular preferences that may make it appear lesser rather than an objective analysis of the different versions.
As for Steel Diver, so you don't like how it looks. Not every game will appeal to "everyone". That doesn't mean it's good business to reduce its price until "everyone" is willing to try it. Do that and those who didn't like it won't buy the sequel anyway, while those who did like it will not buy it for more than $1, and will expect your other games to be $1 as well. In the end you won't even cover the development costs since, despite how it looks to you, and despite its success or failure, it was still a game made by a full team that was paid for their work, rather than a bedroom indie a la Angry Birds. Not to mention retail costs.
Anyway, retailers will also try to take advantage of what's bound to be an explosive start and rip people off however they can as they do for any system. The system will sell out with higher demand than supply, and people will want games for it. Do yourself a favor and give it a year for things and prices to normalise, not to mention for it to get a better library with the titles Nintendo mentioned were held back to provide a good launch window for third parties (which so far seem to have failed to capitalise on that anyway).
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Frankly, its very clear to me, that after taking Nintendo to such heavily fortified middle ground, they are now quaking in their boots, at the wind of change outside. Nintendo thought they could change the game, hide and keep collecting their loot, but at last, their lack of vision and stupidity are going to bite them in the ass.
Nintendo stepped into the game industry at a good time originally. However, had they not done so, games would have still bounced back purely because of the tech evolutionary nature of PCs and Macs. PCs drive other industries as well as games, don't forget, and they've always had some sort of entertainment on them, while doing all that other stuff.
That smell of fear coming from Iwata is intense. Sorry but some of you place too much in these people like some kind of god, which they are certainly not. Nintendo have been milking the shit out of gamers (pubs and devs too) for years, and of course there were no such moaning complaints, when times are good. Even while Iwata makes some points about app stores, its still Nintendo that's going to be selling 3DS ports of Star Fox 64 and Ocarina of Time for high prices, which shoots his argument to crap. Like someone said, if Nintendo had balls, they'd sell these 10 year old N64 games for £2, and see what happens.
Now, tell me, if Valve can do this on Steam, why the hell can't Nintendo???
The likes of a level playing field for entrance to this industry, is what Nintendo don't like. To defend their crap, it to put the gates up to the likes of John Blow etc. We all love and want quality games, but Rome wasn't built in a day. And on top of that, every institution, needs new blood, to bring new ideas. Right now, we are seeing a transition, where more original new ideas are coming from indies than Nintendo.
Overall, this industry will maintain the distance. Core gamers and indie developers will be there long after the big money bells and whistles have possibly gone out. Lets face it, if their are less big boys on the block, there'll be more potential money to be made by smaller devs.
As for Nintendo going third party, once upon a time I thought this idea was madness, as a strong Nintendo gamer, but judging by their problems tackling better console tech, online gaming, demos etc, I think it might be better for them. They just have far too much to do and get right, and core gamers especially won't wait for them. The lure of casual success and Pokemon may prevent this from happening though, as 3DS runaway success will prove.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
/contempt
Anyway, this is all part of the cycle one way or another. As gaming has matured and become mainstream / financially and culturally influential, the pressure of centralizing and homogenizing that culture has increased. As a rule people are sheep and will tend to let their flock tell them what to like, which must then reinforce a progressive myopia of tastes; so every culture must eventually stagnate, and then must spawn some form of counter-culture. Cinema has been through it a few times, though it's never exactly the same - and we're already getting close to a point where cinema will be barely twice as old as videogames, which is freaky to me. And there is always a status quo who's job it is to resist any change, that's kinda what they're there for.
Personally videogaming just hasn't had the same spark this generation, in the mainstream arena. Not that the indies are representative of the "good ol' days" either exactly, but by contrast there is room there to take real chances. And over half of the games that subjectively make it onto the "great" category have not been "full releases", one way or another.
So there does seem to me to be a clear fallacy of omission in Iwata's framing, or at least a simplistic bias. For this is certainly not a logistical phenomenon only, or like some perversion of the 'legitimate order' of things. Enough people are tired of the same old shit - whether they are able to be conscious or autonomous about it or not - and are therefore well primed for being seduced by another culture where it's OK to try something different again!
And you touched on an interesting finer point there digitalash - and as much as I can be grateful to Nintendo for holding down a space where it's also OK to be a little different, it's kinda become it's own little differently stifling orthodoxy - it's not like N has much to worry about except... more so than anyone else they've been able to perpetually resell their ancient "classics" for anything between 20-60% of the original asking price, and those games are much more likely to suffer in comparison to newer simple games.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
WRONG!
Your points are an incoherent mess. What (full, new) game did Valve make and sell for the usual iOS price? I'm pretty sure the upcoming Portal 2 is a standard price title, as it deserves to be for what it took to create, as Nintendo's latest titles deserve, whether you personally like or loathe them.
And why would Nintendo destroy the perceived value of classics like Ocarina of Time or StarFox by offering them for the same price as $1 quickware nobody will remember tommorow? So that people find the next proper entries overpriced, and so that they end up unable to afford to develop a proper entry again because, despite your tastes and trolling they take a ton of cash and top talent to be created rather than one guy in his basement? That doesn't sound smart.
Also, these are enhanced ports. The VC versions on Wii are much cheaper (since the usual retail costs aren't involved) and very much in line with the pricing Valve, who you love so much, uses for things like the original Half-Life on Steam.
Yeah, I don't think you'll be head of an industry leader and pioneer any time soon, friend. You just lack the insight. And once again, go listen to Iwata's keynote because I seriously doubt the author did.
[link url=http://gdc2011.nintendo.com/
]http://gdc2011.nintendo.com/
[/link]
It's the whole thing, no edits or anything else, same as the live.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Comment below viewing threshold Show
[Applause]
Comment below viewing threshold Show
The PS1 Grandia is on the Playstation Store, runs on both PS3 and PSP. Is that the one you are thinking of?
Comment below viewing threshold Show
I never claimed to be the all seeig eye of the games industry, I'm just adding my opinion which you don't have to agree with. I also wasn't born yesterday as far as games go. I grew up on Nintendo product, but also listen to much of their spiel over the years, as well as their actions in response to the industry changing.
I'm just one of the customers in the street, who been playing games and industry watching for ages. I don't expect Nintendo to really change their japanese spots, which is why, personally while some of their games, I decided to move on from them. Bitter pill, perhaps, yes, but overall they are full of crap, and few in the industry fear saying so, purely out of respect for their efforts.
Sorry Ag, but you are seriously full of crap, if you think that Nintendo are so god like that the only time they can sell a game, vastly overpriced for so long. If they are now feeling the burn from indies, that's tough shit, drop and discount some of your games, simple as.
Perceived value, whatever, more like perceived greed. Ocarina of Time came out in 98', the same damn year and month that Half Life hit PCs. I can get Half Life for peanuts now on Steam (what I meant when I mentioned Valve earlier), even via a sale, but Nintendo's game while awesome (I own a copy), could surely go for a similar price and still clean house. especially if sold as DLC on3DS. Now, I'll hold my toungue, and see what price it goes for, but it won't surprise me if its bad unreasonable news.
The industry is now a nice place, of rich haves and poorer maybes and have not product. This is an vast full circle improvement on the way things used to be, as even back in more closed exclusive club days, there were still plenty of crap product that got Nintendo's so called gold quality nod of acceptance (even the rosiest flower bed, has shit in its soil somewhere, but overall, it all feeds the circle of life positively). Sure, the sea of apps is tricky to navigate, but that's what word of gamer mouth, game mags, websites, shows, podcasts and the likes of Google are for, to aid the buying consumer. Many like to fly blind, but that's life.
Forgive me if I can't feel sorry for Nintendo and their millions (can't ever recall the sacking anyone), when smaller devs are trying to realise their dreams with more heart and creative fire, while others just simply bite the dust or end up out of work (this happened to a friend of mine). If Iwata wants a GDC standing ovation, try looking at things from the other side of the coin, and step outside that moneybin with a big N on the side, faithfully guarded by a retired Captain N und zapper. The small guy always has it much tougher, and all Apple, Steam, XNA etc have done is even things up. All industries have risk and bad product, this isn't news.
Don't like the butt hurt, Nintendo, the doors to less pain are clear. If you can't beat em, join em (with optional lube, lol), or shut your mouth and move the hell out to other greener pastures. Stop living in your myopic japanese bubble where, your stuff is overpriced, like Bandai (who in japan and u.s, are well known for overpricing there product, especially their anime).
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Comment below viewing threshold Show
I don't see why not. It might not seem fair to the people green-lighting the next sequel that'll cost the GDP of Venezuela to produce, but increased availability and visibility of cheap alternatives can undermine their perceived value. Those things can obviously still be profitable and I do take your point in context about more direct comparability, but it's all video games, and if I can keep myself amused with Shatter and Bejeweled until Dragon Age gets knocked down to a tenner with all its horse armour bundled in, why wouldn't I?
Comment below viewing threshold Show
You are out of your mind to think that Nintendo would be good to go 3rd party. Take Sega as an example as a former hardware maker, struggling to figure out what the masses want, whereas they used to create their own demand with the unique hardware (often arcade) created to line a sweet combo with the software.
Regarding the topic at hand, your assessment of Nintendo's classics is, as you put it, "as one user's opinion", and thus fully discardable. That said, I think you need to be schooled on some fundamentals of this issue.
- Creative software is made not just by creative people, but by a stable cash flow
- Revenues from rereleased past titles funds future sequels, etc., an essential part of cash flow
- A caveat to pricing -- a large internal factor that raises the price of games is paying for unwanted content, bloating the title to contain something for everyone, despite 'everyone' not desiring a buffet of features
- Most indie games are made by people who quickly exit the industry (as if they were part of it to begin) since game development is most often not financially soluble
- These short-term developers are dictating the industry's future model that is based on short-term profits seen only over the last 2-3 years
- The structure of the industry once broken will be extremely difficult, if not impossible to rebuild
- Without industry structure, current games as they are enjoyed cannot continue to be created
- Nintendo is a gigantic driving force of the industry, and if the company falls, the industry will lose a creative baseline which will likely lead to a glut of market-tested titles that throw core gaming into irrelevance
- The scary and often undiscussed thing about Steam and Apple is that they are the sole determiners of what content reaches people.
- This aforementioned is very difficult to do in the current industry model, as competing companies fill in the gaps of game content.
- If Steam and Apple decided a title isn't going to see the light of day, that's it for that game in terms of mainstream relevance.
- Regarding Steam, their product is not their titles, but their platform, hence the mark down. the sale is to lure people, and they can do that the easiest and most effectively with owned IP.
- The "overpricing" of games is merely perception, as games have risen in quality and quantity.
- Too many games competing for users' time makes buyers think deeper about what they should purchase and why
- Thus those wanting to play everything commonly perceive games as being priced too high, despite the millions spent in production and marketing trying to sway self-entitled masses
Nintendo's profits have nothing to do with your argument, unless you're somehow jealous of a corporation. And FYI, Nintendo's sequels are most always very new games painted over with a coat of familiar mascots.
In terms of relevance to the industry, Nintendo is a balancing force unswayed by trends, cementing gaming as a safe and fun activity for all. Mobile and current casual gaming has no intention -- no brains -- to keep games as a relevant form of entertainment.
All profit and no perspective is a highly flammable mix, as evidenced by the Goldman-Sachs debacle that occurred just 3 years ago. The Wild West duke-out is for young industries, and we gamers have just been blindsided by a raging pack of 3-year-olds who want more cookies. The wisest form of action would be to withhold some of the jar, wouldn't it?
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Firstly, Carnival Games is not "shovelware". Shovelware means lazy ports and as far as I know Carnival Games was a Wii original. And secondly, it made money because it was in fact really good. It was an excellently put-together, thoughtful and polished recreation of a funfair, and people like funfairs, and it was enjoyable to play (plus it was sensibly priced). The fact that it had no grey space marines in it does not - whatever a certain section of EG users might think - make it automatically shit.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Comment below viewing threshold Show
You made a lot of good individual points there, but for most of the people who you might then consider "legitimately" a part of the games industry, it's been for so many just a job, and not that stable or even rewarding (financially or creatively) in the first place. And it's become even less stable recently yet without becoming any more rewarding, for many reasons, but among them is a progressive discounting of the creative side relative to demographics and marketing in the business model. Though within their own fortress Nintendo is certainly among the companies more exceptional to that.
I'm really not trying to argue this as a one-side-or-the-other thing - it's that very wedge in these comments that agitate me in the first place - but taken as a whole your points come across like a defense of the status quo; as the oligarchy spoon-feeding us what it deems worthy is how things should be. Which of course I find disagreeable.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Well, I'm glad you appreciate some of my comments.
The issue I have with your posts is that there is no logical connection between criticisms of the industry and personal gripes.
Bringing up employee satisfaction has nothing to do with the current business model. On the individual level, yes. On a business and corporate level, no, because there are 200 other applicants waiting to fill the next guys' shoes. And certainly the willingness of individuals entering the indie scene is motivated in part by dissatisfaction in a corporate system. But. Many amateur developers aren't willing to mortgage their homes to complete a game, thus an unsustainable flow of games, especially as better and better production values are expected.
Whether you like the current system or not, it works to the degree that publishers can fund console games at all. The ratio of consumer demand to development/publishing costs will shift business to the small guys (best scenario) or unscrupulous business practices (DLC/Micro-transactions up the wazoo). The ball is in console developers' courts to step up the innovation -- something only possible with funding and convincing the public with enough innovation that games are worth your attention.
Iwata's point was the call for innovation to crush small-scale, disposable casual games. All the indie goodness people hold up is the cream of the crop; meanwhile, cash-ins litter the landscape, drastically altering the image and concept of games in peoples' minds.
The ultimate issue is over whether consoles will be given the chance for recourse in their practices. The long-term view points to possibility. But that will only happen with systemic changes which take time, trial and error. Simply, the current scramble for short-term profits won't allow such a transition.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Agree 100%. So many 'core' people seem to fail to grasp the difference between good and bad casual games, because "they look all casual and stuff".
Comment below viewing threshold Show
But yelling about it won't change anything - you may as well try to hold back the tide. The economics of the situation are clear-cut. You have to roll with the punches, and it will be up to Nintendo to re-invent themselves, just as pretty much everyone else will be forced to do, except maybe Microsoft, because, well, they're Microsoft.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Will Nintendo be able to reinvent themeselves, probably not going to be a problem for them. Nintendo system sells because of their software more than hardware. They will role with the new order and still develop systems that will get gamers to purchase their hardware. Developers on the other hand best be prepared for the new order and be careful how they proceed with development. In that respect, this is exciting times for developers. There are so many systems to make money off of and there are so many people will to pay. Going to 99 cent route might not be the best way for a lot of developers but instead developing really good games priced correctly where everyone can succeed and find success. This is what I believe Iwata is talking about and I totally agree.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Is it online anywhere, or is that hoping for too much?
Comment below viewing threshold Show
<a href="http://gdc2011.nintendo.com/
">http://gdc2011.nintendo.com/
</a>
It's the whole thing, no edits or anything else, same as the live.
It's definitely worth it, I doubt you'll reach the author's conclusions. For the most part it was an empowering speech directed to the developers. He wasn't trying to convince consumers to go for Nintendo products, he was merely sharing with developers the philosophy that he believes has made Nintendo and others (including Angry Birds) successful. Then there was just a hint of promotional stuff with a few Skyward Sword scenes and 3DS pimping, but nothing much, nothing that took away from this whole thing being for developers rather than consumers.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
The Delusion that the iPhone has lowered the ARP of games is complete bullshit, it's just that they come out at their ARP and rarely if ever fluctuate, i.e. before there was a wide variance and now there's almost none, the ARP is virtually unchanged.
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Comment below viewing threshold Show
Comment below viewing threshold Show
The money to be made in mobile is all in the legal scam apps that are ad-ridden, serve little purpose other than to take your money, and link to other similar apps. Just like premium SMS before it. Sorry, but that's the way it is.... The seemingly lazy and useless apps are rolling in cash while the guys making legit good games are struggling. Having said that, I think the 3DS will do just fine. Apple's app store is only one example and the Android app store is absolute rubbish.