Where does my money go?

When you spend £40 on a game, who gets it? Eurogamer investigates.

Where does the money go when we buy videogames?

It's a question we don't often ask ourselves. When big-budget, blockbuster games are released on any given Friday, we fork out our cash like we put out the rubbish. Whether it's Halo, FIFA, Call of Duty or World of Warcraft, the path our 40 quid takes from wallet to record-breaking sales headlines is a mystery. What percentage goes to the shop selling you the game? How much does the publisher get? How much does the game creator end up with?

There are no simple answers. Different publishers arrange different deals with different shops for different games. Some, such as Grand Theft Auto IV, are made in-house by publisher-owned studios. Others, such as the Slightly Mad Studios-created Shift 2: Unleashed, are developed by independents. And some, like Rare's Kinect Sports, are produced by console manufacturers. But Eurogamer has compiled a rough guide based on information provided by various publishers and developers that can be applied to the sale of most boxed console games in the UK.

If you bought a game in the run-up to Christmas and it cost £39.99 to buy, approximately £7 (17.5 per cent) went on VAT (that figure increased to 20 per cent as of 4th January), while £10.50 (27 per cent) went to the shop and £12 (30 per cent) to the publisher.

The rest goes on what's called cost of goods: the nuts and bolts of videogame publishing. 65 pence (two per cent) goes on distribution, £1.75 (four to five per cent) on marketing, and an £8 (20 per cent) licence fee goes to the platform holder (Microsoft, Nintendo or Sony). All these costs are paid for by the game's publisher. If a third-party is behind the game, approximately £3 goes to the developer, or 25 per cent of the publisher's revenue after deductibles, although developers are often paid in a series of advances as they meet milestones.

The waters are muddied by the various complex deals signed between publishers and developers. If a game is sold digitally, perhaps on Xbox Live, PSN or Steam, there is no need for it to be pressed onto a disc or sit in a warehouse waiting for that magical ship date when it's sent across the world in cargo planes and trucks to the shops that sell it.

If a game is created in-house, the publisher need not pay a developer at all - but bonuses can apply. This is the case for Activision's Call of Duty series, which is produced by internal studios Infinity Ward, Treyarch and more recently Sledgehammer Games, and Electronic Arts' FIFA 11, made by the EA Canada team in Vancouver.

1

Activision's Call of Duty series is one of the most profitable of all time.

Bonuses often relate to sales and an average review score. This, explains Philip Oliver of YooStar 2 creator Blitz, is why Metacritic has become so important to publishers and developers.

"They will work out the budget for the next Call of Duty, $35 million, and they'll go to the project director and say, 'You better bring it in for less, and I'm going to bonus you on how much less, versus the Metacritic quality,'" Oliver says. "Metacritic is used as benchmarks for quality. It takes the guesswork out of answering the question, 'Did you do a good game or not?' They can use it to say, 'We'll go on that score. If you get above 85 per cent, we'll pay you a bonus of X.'

"We've had several development contracts like that. Yes it does get used."

For independent developers, securing a good deal with a publisher ensures their continued existence. It is essential to their survival.

"We have a great relationship with THQ," Oliver explains. "It's mutually respectful. There are other people at companies, and maybe even THQ for all I know, that almost want to get it as cheap as I absolutely possibly can, and the minute you sign the deal, I'm going to squeeze you on getting more than I paid for. That's their job.

"In fact, a producer did say that recently to us, that that is his sole job, to get the money he's spending down and to get the content he's buying up.

"That doesn't help for a long-term relationship. Long-term relationships respect the other parties need to make a profit."

The fact remains that developers, the creators of the games we love, receive less than 10 per cent of the increasingly bulging revenue pie. The financial reward for creating successful games can obviously be gratuitous: We hear stories of John Carmack's garage packed with Ferraris, Cliffy B rubbing shoulders with US talk show hosts and COD creators Vince Zampella and Jason West signing with talent agencies and think, well, it can't be that bad. But for so many game creators, 10 per cent is as good as it gets. And sometimes, they can end up with nothing.

"If the product never sells more than it takes to recoup the development budget, there are no royalties paid because all those royalties are going back towards what the publisher funded in the first place," Andy Payne, managing director of Mastertronic Group, tells Eurogamer.

Is this situation, this business model, fair?

"If you look at that equation, everybody is taking their fair share," Oliver says. "That leaves you where you are. It's a fact of life."

Payne agrees. "Everybody thinks everyone else is making money out of them. Everyone," he says. "There are a lot of pockets there to fill. It's little bits and pieces. People think it's outrageous because they don't understand what else is in the value chain. There's not much else at retail you can do to cut links out of that chain."

VAT is, of course, an immovable object. But shops decide how much games cost to buy. Could that be cheaper? Unlikely, Oliver and Payne agree. And publishers are set in their ways because of the cost of production. To produce Call of Duty, Activision pays a horde of computer scientists, artists and animators a salary over the course of two years of development - a huge, undisclosed amount.

"Publishers will try to get as much as they can out of a game," says Eidos life president Ian Livingstone. "That's what they're in business for." And, the better and more popular the game, the "more likely" a publisher will be able to "command a large piece of the pie". "It's supply and demand," the business brains behind Lara Croft says.

2

Black Ops had numerous pre-launch offers and incentives available, including trading in rival EA's Medal of Honor.

Publishers and shops engage in an endless tug of war over the cost of games, as Oliver explains. "When EA's selling out its games, it's going to have its sales manager on one end of the phone saying, 'This is the wholesale cost of my product.' If you're a little guy and you're dealing direct with this sales person, really you're going to have to pay what EA says or just not take it.

"If you're Tesco or somebody with buying power, you can negotiate a percentage off. But EA isn't going to move much because it knows however much it moves it's always moved that much. If you knock five per cent off for me this time, you've just knocked five per cent off every product going forward. It's going to be difficult to get back from this place.

"So they won't negotiate much. They'll say, 'Other people are taking it. If you don't want the stock, that's fine. We'll sell it to other people.' They have to act pretty hard-nosed, one, to keep their profit margin, and two, to not set a precedent for the future."

Oliver believes publishers could shake things up a bit, however, by selling games at half the price and, therefore - theoretically - shift twice the number of units. But, "It's going to take a brave, maybe even a stupid publisher to reduce the price when they know the consumer is going to pay it."

In some cases we've even seen the publisher raise the traditional RRP. One recent, high-profile case was Activision's Call of Duty: Black Ops. "If I brought out the next Modern Warfare and I know I'm going to sell 15 million copies at $50, am I going to take the punt?" Oliver wonders. "I already know that, and I can bank on that. Am I going to take the punt to drop the price significantly, hoping to get those extra sales, when it's not price that's driving the buying decision? I either want that game or I don't want that game.

"Last year they put Modern Warfare 2 up by five or 10 dollars, saying, 'If you want it, you'll pay it.' And they did."

Payne says publishers could reduce the cost of games by slashing marketing spend - "the best marketing is your mate telling you it's the best game ever" - but Rod Cousens, CEO of Formula 1 creator Codemasters, won't budge. "Essentially, on that model, there's a real risk of losing money," he says. "You pay £12-20 million to create the game. Maybe more. It can be a high-risk business. It's not an equitable deal."

What of Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, the companies that invest billions into the research and development, manufacturing and distribution of consoles? Could they reduce the amount they charge publishers to release games on their platforms?

"That wouldn't be for me to say," Payne says. "Work that one out for yourself."

Oliver is more blunt. "With the console manufacturers, there is no negotiation there. They're hardly going to allow you to negotiate on those costs of goods knowing if they negotiate once and they change the price once, they're always going to have changed the price."

There appears to be a stalemate, then, with the various players deadlocked as they stubbornly stick to established modes of thinking. But nothing lasts forever. Can, and indeed will, videogame prices go down?

It's a difficult question to answer. The industry is in a state of flux, with self-publishing and the digital space now almost as important as the sale of boxed games and bricks and mortar. The emergence of mobile devices such as iPhone and iPad as profitable game platforms has torn up the rulebook. And the problem the second-hand market poses demands an investigation all of its own. But we can speculate about the future of the 40 quid you hand over in exchange for videogames in shops - if indeed shops continue to exist.

"The whole market seems to be polarising," Livingstone says. "The triple-As, the real blockbusters, seem to be selling more. At the other end of the arc of sales there are niche titles that continue to sell well and budget titles will sell well. But the whole middle-ground seems to be challenged. That's where there will be a lot of price erosion. The middle ground will be compromised. Triple-A games will continue to command a premium price."

3

Remember when this cost £70?

While it's likely that triple-A games will continue to demand a premium price, in truth games have never been cheaper. Who can forget £70 N64 games, the GoldenEyes and Lylat Wars of the cartridge era?

"As a box I'm not sure it changes other than you get margin erosion and you get lifecycle management through the history of the game," Cousens says. "Don't forget the cost of software has been pretty static for the last 15 years. Mortal Kombat on the N64 we put out at 70 quid when I was at Acclaim, and we didn't have any trouble selling the volume we did.

"Typically it's been £40-50, and yet the cost of development has probably gone up by a factor of five to 10. And you've got a fragmented hardware base to sell to now, so it's more challenging."

Today, supermarket price wars force the cost of videogames down to quite astonishing levels - even at launch.

"Argos or Tesco have said, 'Buy the latest blockbuster from us and it's cheaper,'" Oliver says. "They're making no money on it. It's a loss-leader to get footfall, and hopefully you'll buy other stuff while you're there."

A whopping 63 million console and PC games were bought in the UK last year. In 2010 the UK games market was worth £2.875 billion. It is a huge pie, but increasingly fragmented. These days savvy gamers shop around online for the best prices and specialists routinely slash the price of new videogames at launch while supermarkets undercut each other. There are some astonishingly good deals to be found out there. Gamers, even in these bitterly tough economic times, have never had it so good. But at what cost?

Comments (89) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • joe90 #1 1 year ago

    What about when you buy a second hand game :)
  • Korben #2 1 year ago

    Good article, keep it up!
  • tannerd #3 1 year ago

    VAT on a £40 game is £6

    34 * 1.175 = 39.95
    39.95 - 34 = 5.95

  • Raznilof #4 1 year ago

    The last sentence speaks volume, there's a cost involved. Studio's have withered by the busload and there's really only one solution to making sure that a particular game or studio you like continuous; Support; and especially support the DLC. I bought the Metro Ranger pack with no intend to play it (yet). I bought the game cheap and was pleasantly surprised by it, at least through the DLC I figured I could support them a bit.

    It's an irony that many people seem to think that "their" action really doesn't hurt/count much, but in these times the reverse is actually true.

    I'd be very much interested in mad-hacker's question being answered too. My guess, based on what is partially in the text already: A developer is paid advanced royalties and until a game breaks even,the developer doesn't receive anything. Your 10 pound sale is valid but by the time the developer may no longer exist.
  • actionfitz #5 1 year ago

    @joe90
    when you buy a second hand game, 100% of whatever profit margin there is goes to the retailer.
    thats why when you walk into Game or Gamestop these days, 80-90% of the shop floor is dedicated to preowned software / hardware, why Game managers will argue with you to get you to take a preowned copy priced £2 cheaper than an original, to the point you 'lose it' with them and go next door and buy your game from HMV (a little personal experience there hehe).

  • mkreku #6 1 year ago

    "Typically it's been £40-50, and yet the cost of development has probably gone up by a factor of five to 10. And you've got a fragmented hardware base to sell to now, so it's more challenging."

    Yeah. And you conveniently forgot to mention that the market has increased by a factor of 100. Seriously, year after year after year we hear how the games sales break new records. Yet, year after year we also hear developers and publishers whine about how little money they're making. You collectively made £2.875 BILLION last year, I am sure you'll be OK. Maybe you need to cut down to just one solid gold Humvee this year..
  • Xboxfanuk #7 1 year ago

    If game publishers want to save money, lower the cost of games AND having bigger margins the answer is simple, digital distribution. Day and date launches of console titles at £30-40, with a gradual decrease over a set amount of time. The other is new pricing models like free-to-play or episodic.
  • Centrifugal #8 1 year ago

    Shockingly revealing. I'll feel a little bad whenever I buy a 2nd hand game now.
  • afray #9 1 year ago

    17.5% of the total is not VAT. VAT is 17.5% of the pre-tax price, so about 14.9% of the final price goes to the tax man. At the new rate it's about 16.7% of the final price.
  • actionfitz #10 1 year ago

    @mkreku

    " You collectively made £2.875 BILLION last year"

    Would just like to emphasise the 'collectively' bit of that statement. Like the article says, out of all the games released in that time, that £2.875 BILLION figure was mostly taken home by the EA's and Activisions.
    There are many studios with hugely talented people making games that either haven't sold due to the gameplay being too niche or suffered a poor marketing drive or had potential sales figures halved by the retailers aggressive promotion of preowned copys.
    For most of the developers in the industry, breaking even - meeting basic sales targets and milestones - is about all they can hope for. The ability to continue to pay wages and to make another game.
    Plenty of Developers (in house teams included) are one under-performing game away from unemployment.
  • bad09 #11 1 year ago

    "Yeah. And you conveniently forgot to mention that the market has increased by a factor of 100. Seriously, year after year after year we hear how the games sales break new records. Yet, year after year we also hear developers and publishers whine about how little money they're making. You collectively made £2.875 BILLION last year, I am sure you'll be OK. Maybe you need to cut down to just one solid gold Humvee this year..

    I don't get this either. Sure the cost of development increases but so does the market, and that potential market is huge as games are literally everywhere now. Yet we constantly hear how tough it is making games.

    Good read although I think that retail amount you give is only right for big chains with muscle to get a cheaper price. For example I know for a fact on MW2 (and probably BLOPS) many indies made just 3-4 quid per copy as the buy price for them was £41-42 and only stocked it to stop customers going to other stores.
  • Jonny5Alive7 #12 1 year ago

    At this stage of a console's life cycle you tend to see prices come down quite a lot. Whenever Sony & Microsoft finally release their next consoles the cost of the games will go up again. Its always the same.
  • Biggles #13 1 year ago

    What about Steam and online distribution in the PC market? There seems to be a totally different pricing strategy going on there, would that perhaps be worth talking about in a follow up article?
  • midnight_walker #14 1 year ago

    When I spend £40 on a game, Satan will be skating to work.
  • IkariW #15 1 year ago

    One thing that really gets me quite angry is this common view that developers are loaded and should stop whinging about money.
    Lets get one thing straight here, most developers are paid average wages, and are struggling to keep revenue coming in.
    If you are looking at 'in-house' developers, well, like someone mentioned they are just one average selling game away from the dole que.
    If we are talking about independents, well, not only do they have the pressure of making a game that will sell, but also paying the teams wages with the income from hitting milestones from publishers. This 'unrealistic' view that ALL developers are loaded and driving to work in Aston Martins is a joke, and is put forward by people who have no understanding of the industry at all and are usually external to it.

    The argument of 'Yeah but the games industry is bigger now so theres more money' doesn't hold water either, development costs have gone through the roof! What were once high end big developer/publisher games are now 'Expected' by the games playing public.
    Some of the big game teams have upwards of 500+ people working on their games, but if you only have 30-50 people developing, you are still expected to produce the same quality game, the pressure and work loads are sometime life breaking!

    Industry is bigger - yes, costs have shot up - yes, so it kind of equals itself out. The days of the mega rich developer are long gone, its all publisher led now, they hold the purse strings, not the developer.

    When you think about it, game costs have not really changed that much over the years, but the content has changed beyond recognition. I remember paying 50+ pounds for Street Fighter 2 back in the day for gods sake, now you can get games like Vanquish, Castlevania and many others for under £20 new! I struggle to think of a media that has kept its price but increased its content as much over the last 20 years.

    I think that the games playing public need to wind their neck in a little bit too, and stop moaning about the price of software, its still competitively priced and is better value than its ever been. Gamers have never had it so good in my opinion, more competition makes it more challenging for developers, but usually, they relish the challenge, all they want to do is make great games for you and get paid every month.

    Just an opinion of course.
    Edited by IkariW at 22/06/11 @ 14:39
  • tomjoadsghost #16 1 year ago

    So, if you buy a new, non-preowned game thats been reduced to £17.95 (which i know is the sweet spot for many of us) im guessing its *not* proportional but how does the split work.
  • StooMonster #17 1 year ago

    Eurogamer: When you spend £40 on a game, who gets it?

    Doesn't it all go to Satan? After all computer and video games are the work of the devil.

    3:)
  • Viz1 #18 1 year ago

    Wow good say, but big opinion...
  • IkariW #19 1 year ago

    I did kind of ramble a bit...apologies, just rattles my cage when I hear people complaining about software prices sometimes.
    ;)
    Edited by IkariW at 10/01/11 @ 09:42
  • the_sas_man #20 1 year ago

    This article needs a pie chart
  • StooMonster #21 1 year ago

    @the_sas_man: +1 to that, it was the first thing I thought about when reading it.
  • raffmonkey #22 1 year ago

    I heard somewhere that there is no vat on games under £18 and that's why many online prices are £17.99.
  • midnight_walker #23 1 year ago

    I heard somewhere that there is no vat on games under £18 and that's why many online prices are £17.99.

    Not quite. There's no VAT applied when you import something that's worth less than £18. I don't think Jersey counts as importing though.
  • StooMonster #24 1 year ago

    IkariW: its still competitively priced and is better value than its ever been

    I agree.

    Compare cost of DVD or Blu-ray or cinema ticket to game and how many hours of entertainment you get out of each, or any other leisure activity ... on a per hour of entertainment basis gaming is pretty cheap.
  • Paulie_P #25 1 year ago

    I love this myth of every N64 game being £70.

    Goldeneye was never £70, it was £50 at the most. Lylat Wars was £60 because it included the rumble pak!

    The only £70 game I remember for the N64 was Turok and that fell in price pretty quickly.
  • coolbeans #26 1 year ago

    @IkariW

    Fantastic post. I couldn't have written that better myself.
  • arcam #27 1 year ago

    on a per hour of entertainment basis gaming is pretty cheap.

    But that's not how price works. Nor does it matter about development costs, or how much games used to be. Games prices are set at the amount that makes maximum money. If raising or lowering prices would bring in more money, that's what publishers would do. Just like scaling up or down production costs.

    No need to feel sorry for games makers with spiralling development costs and low expected RRPs. Games makers choose how much they spend on these things, and if things could be done more profitably they would simply change their methods.
  • KingOfTheC #28 1 year ago

    Surely a game which is discounted and sold 9 months later is the retailer taking the hit?

    I think the article puts it as the £40 being divided up between them all to make it clear to us where it all goes, but in the end the money that goes to the publisher and developer will be decided when the game is sold, by the publisher, to the retailer, just like any purchase. The price that this game goes on to eventually sell is essentially irrelevant, it is just retailers selling their old stock at a price, because any revenue (even a loss) is better than just scrapping their old stock.
  • StooMonster #29 1 year ago

    arcam: But that's not how price works

    Theory of price is an entire academic subject itself, but most people go with the definition that price is whatever people are prepared to pay ... as demonstrated by Modern Warfare 2
  • TVoJ #30 1 year ago

    As someone has mentioned, I'd love to know what happens to everybodies shares when a game goes on sale at 19.99 two weeks after release.
  • beroscoe #31 1 year ago

    People who say "digital distribution" is the way forward, are really not looking at the bargains consumers currently get in the gaming lifecycle. Most 1 year old games currently go on Amazon for between £10-£15, wheras log onto services like Xbox Live and the same games cost you between £20 and £30, almost double. I'd love to see which part of the chain takes the "cuts" in these scenarios....
    Edited by beroscoe at 10/01/11 @ 10:14
  • IkariW #32 1 year ago

    I don't think developers are asking for 'sympathy' or anyone to feel sorry for them. But a little understanding could go a long way.

    I also think prices could have justifiably gone up over the years, because believe it or not, the 'methods' of making games has changed, dramatically, mainly due to the fact that the amount of content expected in games has increased ten fold, not to mention the amount of people needed to create it.

    Its true games are priced to make money, of course they are, but that price hasn't changed for years even though content has dramatically increased. Considering the amount of time/effort/expertise/talent and down right determination that goes into making them I say that games are good value.

    If they didn't make money, there wouldn't be a games 'industry' and I for one am very glad thats not the case, what a dull place the world would be.
  • Zephro #33 1 year ago

    Why does this article even have the PC tag? Seriously no mention of Steam and it's totally different pricing structures? Digital downloads, we are told, are now dominating the PC market and "disrupting" the traditional orthodoxies. Yet no mention of them except in passing? Pah!

    Also no I don't remember ever paying £70 for a game. A) because no shop ever charged the RRP of N64 games B) Because PC games back then never went over £30 brand new, back then when PC games were a much larger share of the market.

    EDIT: Presumably what happens when it goes on sale is that the shop/distributor loses out on their slice. They bought it for a wholesale price from the publisher already.
    Edited by Zephro at 10/01/11 @ 10:17
  • bf #34 1 year ago

    Nothing really new but an interesting read all the same, until I hit this line "And the problem the second-hand market poses demands an investigation all of its own". The only "problem" relating to 2:nd hand sales is the gaming industry's, and associated press, inability to understand how trade functions and has functioned since the dawn of time.
  • Syrok Verified Community Coordinator, Tarsier Studios #35 1 year ago

  • arcam #36 1 year ago

    @StooMonstar, IkariW

    Sorry my post was poorly written, don't know why I used the word sympathy. All I really meant was that development costs have only gone up because developers have chose to increase them - it's perfectly possible to make games with much smaller budgets, but the games industry has decided that bigger budget games will make them more profit.

    Likewise with games prices - it's not external pressures bringing down the price of games - it's that publishers make more money with games at RRP £49.99 than they would if they were £59.99 or £24.99.
  • BlitzwingHaz #37 1 year ago

    People asking about the shares of a game when the price gets dropped, surely its the shop taking the hit? When the shop buys the game they've already paid the distributer, its up to them to try and sell it on. Unless you're talking about platinum releases.
  • arcam #38 1 year ago

    Unless a shop has made a serious error and ordered way more stock than they can handle with no way of returning it, it's the publisher that does the discounting.

    The publisher's price to retailers drops over time in much the same way the retailer's price to consumers does.
  • butler` #39 1 year ago

    very interesting article EG, something I've always wanted to know some specifics on.

    Personally I can't believe how big of a chunk the platform holders take as a licence fee :s
  • GamerG #40 1 year ago

    Actually the VAT on a £39.99 2010 purchase is £5.95 not £7!!!!
    Edited by GamerG at 10/01/11 @ 10:57
  • butler` #41 1 year ago

    @beroscoe "People who say "digital distribution" is the way forward, are really not looking at the bargains consumers currently get in the gaming lifecycle."

    Let's not forget that digital distribution is in its infancy...
  • Stoatboy #42 1 year ago

    @arcam: But as you can see developers are getting 3 quid out of the 40. The most developers can possibly reduce the cost of the game by is £3 (a tad more what with VAT and other scaling costs) and that would mean working for absolutely nothing. We can make games cheaper but the vast amount of the price is coming from elsewhere. You could get 2 thirds of a game and save a quid, but is this really where the money should be saved to drop the price of the end product by a fortieth?
  • GamerG #43 1 year ago

    While this is interesting it doesn't explain what happens when games get discounted, who loses out? Do the publishers get the same if the game is sold for £20 or £40??
  • arcam #44 1 year ago

    @Stoatboy

    I'm not convinced about the £3 figure. Most developers are on salary, they don't get a percentage of the revenues (except some as a bonus idf they're lucky).

    Anyway, I'm not suggesting the price needs to be dropped. Quite the opposite, I'm saying the current price is probably the sweet spot that makes everyone the maximum amount of money.

    Do the publishers get the same if the game is sold for £20 or £40??

    Of course not. That would mean retailers were selling the game for less than they bought it, which only happens very occasionally. The publishers drops the price to encourage sales to retailers, same as in any business.

    Edited by arcam at 10/01/11 @ 11:10
  • TelexStar #45 1 year ago

    @Ikari“One thing that really gets me quite angry is this common view that developers are loaded and should stop whinging about money…. *snip*”

    Good post but I disagree on some points here; Firstly, I don’t think the idea that developers are loaded is a common view at all. On the contrary, I think most people realise it’s publisher led. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that most casual gamers don’t even know who the developers are as they only recognise the likes of EA or Activision etc on their game box. Perhaps when they’re ranting at who they think is the developer, it’s actually the publisher.

    ” When you think about it, game costs have not really changed that much over the years, but the content has changed beyond recognition. I remember paying 50+ pounds for Street Fighter 2 back in the day for gods sake, now you can get games like Vanquish, Castlevania and many others for under £20 new! I struggle to think of a media that has kept its price but increased its content as much over the last 20 years.”

    Yes, and people/businesses largely paid the same amount for Windows NT back in the early 90’s as they do for Windows 2008. It’s called “relative value” and the principle has applied to technology as a whole for 40 years (CRT televisions verses LCD TV’s etc).

    You make it sound as if we should somehow be thankful to developers for weaving some kind of magic to produce the amazing visual feasts we enjoy today. The fact is that games development is set at the bounds of technological advancement and again, this is relative to us (the consumer). On paper, Super Street Fighter 4 is leagues better than Street Fighter 2 but when set in the context of what was achievable in the eras they were released in, they’re comparatively the same.

    ” I think that the games playing need to wind their neck in a little bit too, and stop moaning about the price of software, its still competitively priced and is better value than its ever been. Gamers have never had it so good in my opinion, more competition makes it more challenging for developers, but usually, they relish the challenge, all they want to do is make great games for you and get paid every month.”

    I agree with you here. I think back in the days of the SNES, MegaDrive, N64 etc, we never enjoyed some of the price drops or supermarket wars that we see today (Vanquish at £10 for example). For me though, this is just all part and parcel of the competition that’s out there. Just as it’s the job of publishers / distributers to squeeze as much margin as they can, so it’s the same for consumers… to a certain extent, we HAVE to “moan” and “complain” to ensure publishers know that paying 70 quid for a game is too much.
  • gjgjg #46 1 year ago

    I don't have facebook so this is me pressing an unaligned 'Like it' :)
  • FortysixterUK #47 1 year ago

    It's still a disgustingly expensive situtation ( for all involved by the looks of things).
    The majority of my software purchases will be when a given title has gone sub £20.00, with a few " A " grade titles geting bought on release, the only thing for me that is slowly changing is less and less day 1 purchasing.
  • RawNinjaKid #48 1 year ago

    I remember 64.99 for the first SreetFighter II release on the SNES!!

    Nowadays, I rarely pay £40 for a game. More waiting for platinum or reduced prices for me.
  • joe90 #49 1 year ago

    @actionfitz

    my comment was a poor attempt at satire.
  • sneetch #50 1 year ago

    I bought Vanquish for 18 euro just before Christmas, haven't had a chance to play it yet I just picked it up because it was a good price and I'd like to see more games like that, I'd like to know if that meant the devs got even less or did they get the same as they would anyway and did GameStop take the hit?

    Edit: GameStop not GameSpot
    Edited by sneetch at 10/01/11 @ 12:03
  • dwalker109 #51 1 year ago

    Anybody who claims that games are too expensive clearly wasn't around in the 1990s. It's as simple as that. Modern games are almost unrecognisable in their sophistication, and paying, say, £35 for Red Dead Redemption at release? Well, that's just awesome.
  • Zephro #52 1 year ago

    Still don't see this 1990s nonsense. PC games were always around £30-35. Yknow due to being on CDs and floppy discs.
  • arcam #53 1 year ago

    I'd like to know if that meant the devs got even less or did they get the same as they would anyway and did GameSpot take the hit?

    The devs get what the publisher chooses to give them. They don't get a royalty every time their game passes through the tills.

    If the publisher were selling Vanquish to retailers at the usual price, retailers would be buying games for £25 and selling them for £18. Obviously they aren't doing that. The publisher is selling them cheaper to the retailer, and so the retailer can sell them cheaper to the customer.

    Gamespot are quite likely to make more money per sale from Vanquish at £18 than they did when they were selling the game at £39.99, if the publisher's price is low enough.
  • IkariW #54 1 year ago

    @arcam

    Hey, fair point, I guess its all about how much risk a publisher is willing to take. Its perfectly possibe to make smaller, cheaper games that can be great games, no argument there, its great if developers get the opportunity to make them.
    Cheers for the comment.

    @ TelexStar
    Fair points, certainly can't argue with you on your points. As for the 'Being thankful' to developers, that certainly wasn't what I was trying to get across, probably more to do with my poor written English than anything else. ;)
    I think what I was trying to say concerning relative value was that, on average, games development today takes a lot more effort to get the same results relative to the same product years ago. For example, games over a decade or two ago 'rarely' took over 12 months to develop, today, thats common place, most 'big' games average 18 months or so even with large or very large teams.

    So the cost of development has gone up, mainly due to content, but the price has remained similar, which I'm saying is a good thing and not something we should be overly concerned about.
    But like I say, great reply comment and well considered, many thanks.
    Edited by IkariW at 10/01/11 @ 12:12
  • Pasco #55 1 year ago

    TelexStar:
    "On paper, Super Street Fighter 4 is leagues better than Street Fighter 2 but when set in the context of what was achievable in the eras they were released in, they’re comparatively the same."

    Not a good example. Even on paper Street Fighter 4 is the same thing Street Fighter 2 is with a new class of super moves and an additional charge move. Graphics-wise Street Fighter 2 had huge sprites and lots of parallax scrolling, even with line-scrolling which wasn't the norm at the time. Street Fighter is practically the same thing in 3D. Two fighters with relatively static viewpoint. In a time when everyone else is using physics engines, cloth animation, complex face-expressions, interpolation between animation stances... Street Fighter 4 uses none of that. Disregarding if it is a good game or not, Street Fighter 4 is a lazy approach to a fighting game at this time. The only thing that sets it apart from SF2 is online-gaming.
  • chrisjm #56 1 year ago

    i remember the megadrive days, and ps1 days of articles asking this question.
    but where's the pie chart!!
  • sneetch #57 1 year ago

    Thanks arcam I feared as much. If the publisher decided to put a copy of Vanquish in every copy of The Mail on Sunday and receive a penny per copy they probably have that right... of course in a year or two it might purely be them clearing stock but so soon after release it's probably a publisher deal
  • geeza2020 #58 1 year ago

    "If you bought a game in the run-up to Christmas and it cost £39.99 to buy....." - You're a mug :-)
  • Notallowedhere #59 1 year ago

    Those asking how discounted games work. Publisher and Retailer have a contract that normally stipulates details of discounting returns and writes downs specific to the number of units that the shops have on the shelves & in the warehouses at a specific time.

    Esentially the publisher gives money back to the retailer where it can ofset decrease in price and loss of margin. Depending on contract with dev team the royalties are fixed or flexible % of the original selling point. Realistically the publisher takes most of the hit and thats bad news for Devs who will be less likely to sell on new games to publishers if previous games have been unpopular.
  • jefranklin18 #60 1 year ago

    I would be interested to see what the breakdown of margins are for digital distribution. PSN (and presumably Steam although I have no experience of that) with its use of real money will be easier to breakdown, although I doubt that information is published.
  • higganos #61 1 year ago

    Nice article, always wondered who got what in this matter. I have a question, however. Last year I bought a 4gb 360 slim for 150 notes which is the RRP (as far as I'm aware?). I also received FIFA11 for free as a bundle. Who on earth is paying for this 40 quid game that I got for zilcho?
  • Rev.StuartCampbell #62 1 year ago

    "Games prices are set at the amount that makes maximum money. If raising or lowering prices would bring in more money, that's what publishers would do."

    That assumes that publishers aren't idiots. Sadly the evidence doesn't bear that assumption out.
  • DarthMartious #63 1 year ago

    Here's the most revealing comment in the entire article: Oliver believes publishers could shake things up a bit, however, by selling games at half the price and, therefore – theoretically – shift twice the number of units. But, "It's going to take a brave, maybe even a stupid publisher to reduce the price when they know the consumer is going to pay it."

    Now there's nothing wrong with making money, but when we're dealing with an industry that bleats on and on about how piracy is destroying it, an industry that is doing everything in its power to stomp on legitimate consumers - especially consumers who wish to trade their games second-hand - and STILL admits that games are overpriced YET won't do anything to change the status quo because it's more than happy to sucker-punch consumers speaks volumes about the regard it holds us in.
  • rock27gr #64 1 year ago

    Just like to clarify that cartridge based games used to be more expensive due to the large cost of memory at the time. So in the end it cost MORE to manufacture a console game then, not less.

    As others have pointed out, PC games that didn't have this problem used to cost the same as now.
  • TelexStar #65 1 year ago

    @Pasco "Not a good example. Even on paper Street Fighter 4 is the same thing Street Fighter 2 is with a new class of super moves and an additional charge move."

    I’d argue against SF4 being "just the same" as SF2. SNES/Megadrive iterations of Street Fighter 2 were *very* different from their arcade counterparts. The arcade machines ran versions of the game that were far smoother and more refined, allowing for subtle differences in timings of moves/reversals etc. Primarily because the hardware was far more capable of running it than the home consoles of the day. This is evident in the fact that arcade boxes were used for serious competitive tournaments. Today however, the differences between arcade SF4 and console SF4 are much smaller (if any at all?).

    In addition, Capcom didn’t simply pull the guts out of SF2 and pour pretty graphics over the top. Instead they created the game from the ground up, which includes a hell of a lot of work in tweaking the balance etc. So yes, while on the surface they’re both 2d fighting games, they both equally underwent lengthy cycles of development to get them right and makes them two very different games (that albeit look very similar in terms of design).

    I’d also wager that were SF4 just a re-hashed game from the 90’s then it wouldn’t have received the very high critical and commercial success it did. This alone speaks volumes against the other games you mention that are using "physics engines, cloth animation, complex face-expressions, interpolation between animation stances...".

    For arguments sake though, perhaps a better example would have been something like Prince of Persia verses Assassins Creed: Brotherhood?
  • sirtacos #66 1 year ago

    Great article! Multiple sources, some actual investigative work and the subject matter is worthwhile. Shit, I can't even remember the last time I questioned where the money I pay for a game goes. Nice, EG.
  • bad09 #67 1 year ago

    "Now there's nothing wrong with making money, but when we're dealing with an industry that bleats on and on about how piracy is destroying it, an industry that is doing everything in its power to stomp on legitimate consumers - especially consumers who wish to trade their games second-hand - and STILL admits that games are overpriced YET won't do anything to change the status quo because it's more than happy to sucker-punch consumers speaks volumes about the regard it holds us in"

    Well said sir, well said. Sadly I don't see it changing any time soon.
  • mkreku #68 1 year ago

    I don't understand.. I used to buy my games on cassette for my Commodore 64, and they cost 49-149 SEK in the late eighties, early nineties. Now games cost 349-699 SEK.. and yet people claim prices have not gone up? I'm sorry, but prices have more than tripled during my time as a gamer!
  • UKPartisan #69 1 year ago

    The sad fact of all this is safe genres sell. The days of pure innovation on a commercial level seem to me at least, to be dead. I don't think we'll ever see another Wizball, Elite or Master of Orion. Another Dungeon Master or Alter-Ego. With everything now decided via boards and commitees, with profit the watchword. I can only envisage a continuation of the dumbing down of video/computer gaming in the name of profit. The small ray of hope there is, comes from Indie releases. Those who dare to be original. In the 30 years of my gaming life, I can quite frankly say the last few years have been rubbish.
  • smelly #70 1 year ago

    Qiuote : "Jesus. That Metacritic situation really is absurd. "

    Yip - ever wonder why publishers tack on stuff like online play into games which dont need it, etc? Well it gets them higher review scores...

    Also ever wonder how games review websites get funded? Well developers are desperate for good reviews - doesnt take a genius...
  • RawNinjaKid #71 1 year ago

    Pure innovation never dies - there's always less of it, then you imagine.

    However, I understand that we are not in a "hot" industry cycle at the moment, despite its growth.

  • KDR_11k #72 1 year ago

    Generally the grunts making a game are salaried and where the money goes only makes a difference to them if their company ends up going bankrupt. A few key people might get royalties but as much as some like to hype up those key people in the end games are a massive collaborative effort and Warren Spector cannot make the game's camera not suck, that's the grunts' job.
  • Stoatboy #73 1 year ago

    @mkreku: Prices may have tripled since the Commodore 64, but since even the largest games back then would have taken up a few hundred K tops and these days they're generally nearer to 5 gigabytes (and that's with compression) you're getting close to 20, 000 times more data for your money, which is a bit of a bargain really.
  • Rev.StuartCampbell #74 1 year ago

    "The days of pure innovation on a commercial level seem to me at least, to be dead. I don't think we'll ever see another Wizball, Elite or Master of Orion. "

    Depends where you're looking for it. The App Store has it coming out of its arse.
  • secombe #75 1 year ago

    As many have mentioned, the glaring omission here is what happens when the price drops. I've not paid £40 for a game in this generation, even on the high street most games are heavily discounted within a few weeks (even if just for a short period before going back up).

    FIFA 11 was £19.99 in Game/Gamestation for a week or so recently, Fallout: NV has been £20 pretty much since two weeks after release. I can't imagine they are losing £12 a copy, so something must be going on.
  • alcides #76 1 year ago

    who in Britain pays 40£ for a game?
  • espibara #77 1 year ago

    Take home message wait for the magic sub £20 mark.

    Will never buy a game on release week .............patience is a virtue.
  • HermitArcader #78 1 year ago

    Post deleted at 09:17:39 22-12-2011
  • FutileResistor #79 1 year ago

    The publisher has always scammed the dev. Whether you're talking about books, films, CDs or games it's the same.

    Your game costs $1 million to develop (funded by the publisher in the form of an advance against royalties).
    Your publisher gets $10 (net sales) for every copy of your game they sell.
    You (the developer) get 15% of net sales.
    If your game sells 500,000 units how much money do you get in royalties?

    The math is simple. 15% of $10, multiplied by 500,000 equals zero. Dan Marchant on the myth of developer royalty.

    One of the best pieces of writing on this, the classic Steve Albini essay on how record companies screw artists.

    Hollywood Accounting? So many examples. One of the most high profile recently was the Lord Of the Rings lawsuits. J.R.R. Tolkien sold the film rights to the Lord Of the Rings Trilogy for 7.5% of future receipts. After taking in £3billion worldwide, The Tolkein Trust had not received a penny from Time Warner and had to sue to get their money. Peter Jackson sued New Line Cinema (the Time Warner susidiary which handled LoTR) for fraudulent accounting resulting in millions in lost royalties. The best book is Fatal Subtraction: How Hollywood Really Does Business.

    Unscrupulous businessmen screw naive artists, it's an old story. Trying to get your money to the dev/author/artist is going to be difficult if some kind of publisher is involved. The only artists who get a good deal are those who have become famous enough to have some clout and thus able to cut themselves a good deal, but only after being screwed in their first few pieces of work. In games, it is even more difficult because like film, whole teams are involved in a game, and most gamers aren't even aware of who developed a game making it difficult for even talented teams to cut good deals.

    Unfortunately any developer wanting to release a title on 360 and/or PS3 has to get in bed with a publisher. Even the lowest budget retail title on the 'HD' consoles costs a few million dollars.

    The last few years has seen a lot of interesting indie stuff happening because of digital distribution disintermediating the publisher but it will be a while before the cost of making HD assets falls to the point where indies can make complex 3D games with the kind of graphics we associate with AAA titles.
    Edited by FutileResistor at 11/01/11 @ 08:10
  • FutileResistor #80 1 year ago

    Pure Innovation is dead?

    It's purely economic. If the editor's note at the bottem of this article is accurate, 80% of games released do not make a profit. Cooking Up A Blockbuster Game

    Of the games that enter production only 4% make a profit. Of the games that make it to release only 20% are profitable. From this we can also deduce that 80% of games which enter production are cancelled.

    These are mind-blowing stats and explains pretty much why we have very little risk taking in the console market. One poor selling game can take down a dev. A few poor selling games can take down a smaller publisher.

    It also explains why we will not be getting the PS4 and Xbox 720 anytime soon. Even with the current level of graphical fidelity in games not actually being HD, developers are struggling to keep costs down. A hike in graphical fidelity is the last thing devs need right now.

    As Stuart Campbell says, innovation and risk-taking is happening on the mobile front and also the PC indie scene where one-coder or a small team can take the risks which a huge team on a HD title cannot.
    Edited by FutileResistor at 11/01/11 @ 08:14
  • Rev.StuartCampbell #81 1 year ago

    "These are mind-blowing stats and explains pretty much why we have very little risk taking in the console market. One poor selling game can take down a dev. A few poor selling games can take down a smaller publisher. "

    Absolutely. And the underlying reason for this is price. People will NOT risk buying an innovative original title at £40, so the same six games get made over and over again. And because the big studios have a huge resource advantage, they can make the biggest, shiniest versions of those six games, so they hoover up the vast majority of the money that's floating around.

    It's one thing when the industry proudly trumpets that it made £Xbn this year, slightly less impressive when you realise that about 50% of that entire sum went to two games: CoDBlOps and FIFA 11.

    Games aren't expensive because they cost a lot to develop, they're expensive because the big studios want to hold onto their lion's share of the money.
  • _tangent #82 1 year ago

    Interesting article. Personally i think the problem lies in the way our ecomomy deals with new ideas rather than with the games industry itself. It's far too expensive to realise innovation commercially; far too much value is placed on start-up investment. Take programs like Dragon's Den for example which, whilst a bit of a caricature of the real world, demonstrates just how much ownership investors with money can demand from entrepreneurs without.

    The fact is, there would be no publishing industry without games development, but the same is not true in reverse. Games development wouldn't look like it does today, with huge budgets and massive marketing campaigns, but it would certainly still exist - think, a far greater number of small independent studios earning a reasonable living, rather than a small number of incredibly financially powerful players and a transient soup of smaller companies who struggle to make a living for a few years then either get bought by one of the larger publishers or developers or go out of business.

    When an industry and the companies within in it reach a certain size, the barrier to entry becomes almost unassailable. Big companies invest millions in marketing to corner the attention of the buying public, and can afford to pour money into proven but derivative game mechanics, focussing on expensive, cinematic special effects in order to satisfy the binary, fascile appetite for short-lived, frenetic entertainment and instant gratification which characterises modern consumerism; it's an expensive risk for a company to posit a new gaming model - or even produce a game based around a less instant-appeal gaming model (RTS vs FPS, for example) - than it is for them to just rehash COD again, which yields action-blockbuster-esque thrills for a tiny investment of time and effort on the part of the gamer. Ultimately, it comes down to financial mathematics. Genuinely new ideas might be good or bad - they're untested. The likelihood that they will be commercially succesful can't really be objectively measured, because there are no objective measures when it comes to taste and personal preference. However, if a game mechanic has been tried and tested and has been shown to appeal to the buying public, the financial mathematics are suddenly calculable: all you have to do is produce an extremely well excuted and highly polished implementation of the proven game mechanic (and these things ARE objectively measurable) and you can have a reasonable expectation of commercial success. In other words, it's a focus on style over substance. Style, in the context its used here, can be guaranteed - good graphics, great sound, cinematic cut scenes, archetypal characters, simple and intuitive controls etc. But substance - the idea itself - is a total unknown. There are no metrics to guage the quality of RTS as a concept over RPG, or FPS over point and click, and there is no way to calculate how succesful a new idea will be. Obviously i'm polarising the argument here by using genre to symbolise innovation, but the same argument applies to any unconventional or genuinly innovative game mechanic - spend the money on big budget special effects and kids will play it in droves; spend it on implementing some concept which will initially feel alien to them, and you run the risk that they'll be turned off enough not to bother.

    Which i guess brings me (sort of) to my final point, that we, the consumer, are part of the problem. We've been weaned off forms of entertainment which require any sort of effort to appreciate. This has happened in all creative industries: hollywood in cinema, pop in music. We're used to instant gratification - we're taught to expect it. Something new and different might well ultimately represent greater entertainment value, but only if people are prepared to put the time into acclimatising to it. And when your game is sitting next to the latest COD on the shelf, what developer is prepared to take that risk?
    Edited by _tangent at 11/01/11 @ 12:23
  • Aradiel #83 1 year ago

    I often see references to N64 and other cartridge games being £70, but I never experienced that. I never saw an N64 game costing that on release unless it came with extra hardware - and I pre-ordered Ocarina of Time!
  • albinac #84 1 year ago

    so 27% or €10.50 goes to the shop, why?. why does the shop earn almost as much as the publisher if they make such a huge profit on used games and they do very little to help sell new games,they are a big part of the problem with games prices and i for one would like too see them gone if only to lower the price a small bit . the retailers should be cut out of this buisseness so us gamers are not robbed blind twice, new and used games that is.the games companies should sell dirrectly to the consumer weither it be digital or physical and that way the games companies can make a little bit more money but not to the extent where they charge the same price as before like they are doing now with digital(shame on you games companies)but it is understandable considerring their situation with the retailers at the moment.
  • Ryze #85 1 year ago

    Woah there! I've bought quite a few games over the past couple of years, but I've not spent £40 on a game since the GTA IV launch in 2008.

    In fact, that cost me around £37.
  • AgentCool #86 1 year ago

    As others have said, games are generally cheaper now than they were in the 90s whilst simultaneously being far more complex and expensive to develop. I remember when Sonic & Knuckles was released in 1994 and virtually every shop wanted £44.99 for it. You'd be hard pressed to pay that much for a standard release these days. In fact, adjusted for inflation, that amounts to around £67 in today's money. Kids these days don't know how expensive gaming was back then!

    Renting was a big deal back then as well but, unfortunately, my local rental store wanted £10 to keep Sonic & Knuckles for two nights!
    Edited by AgentCool at 12/01/11 @ 13:54
  • Phishfood #87 1 year ago

    It makes me wonder how Capcom got Super Street Fighter IV out for £24
  • respectyourelder #88 1 year ago

    in my opinion if Sony, MS and Nintendo, as well as the big publishers are really that commited to cutting out retail costs and cutting down Second hand sales, the solution seems pretty simple to me:

    make all games, the major ones at least, available digitally, and make the price of digital downloads cheaper to account for the lack of a box/shipping, savings from cutting out retailer etc. Not necessary the equivalent value to what they'd actually save, allow them to make a little profit on it after all, but a £10er cheaper would be a good start. with most retailers only selling 2nd hand games about a £5er cheaper than brand new they'd be on to a winner straight away.

    I know that would sell it for me. I thought the idea of MS selling XBOX 360 Classics digitally was a great idea, until they turned out to be actually dearer online than they are in the shops... missed a trick there IMO.

    Its obviously a pretty radical way to go, and it would no doubt piss the retailers off, but Game etc wouldn't miss the chance to stock the biggest games just because an inhouse competitor is selling them cheaper im sure. I think Miles @Sports Interactive said as much on the podcast. I'm sure theres a hole in my logic somewhere but it seems to kill two birds with one stone from a publisher perspective.
  • respectyourelder #89 1 year ago

    @Aradiel Yeah i remember getting OOT for £50 i think it was, just after release.

    Saying that, i'm pretty sure N64 games were dearer at launch, but i don't remember them costing £70.

    reading that bit of the article makes me wonder how i ever justified the cost of those games to my mum at the time!