Xbox 360 Kinect

By Richard Leadbetter Published 14 June, 2010

Kinect Sports, Kinect Adventures, Dance Central, Your Shape, Joy Ride.

New name, new games, and a new beginning for Microsoft's motion controller: Kinect. In the immediate aftermath of the Cirque de Soleil "Project Natal Experience", we had a chance to get hands on, or hands-off as it were [we did that joke last year - Ed], with a small selection of titles set to launch with the camera.

Skip ahead if you want to read about a particular game:

Kinect Sports

First up, an opportunity to get to try out Kinect Sports. This is Rare's attempt to take on the almighty appeal of Nintendo's Wii Sports franchise, so it's not surprising to see Avatars take centre-stage in this multi-event epic - Rare designed them.

During the Project Natal Experience we saw various flavours of mini-game from football through to the hurdles, plus some javelin action to boot. At the playtest, the selection of available events is more limited.

A family of... actors gets stuck into the Kinect line-up.

Hurdles is present and correct though and available both for single-player and also in a two-player split-screen 'versus' format. The objective is simple: run on the spot in a frenzied manner, and leap when you see an upcoming hurdle in order to maintain speed and win the event.

The key to maintaining speed isn't how quickly you run on the spot but how many calories you burn. Not a lot of people know this, but the Kinect APIs in the recent Xbox 360 SDKs include a module that measures the number of calories you burn based on the motions you make.

Within this section of Kinect Sports, then, exaggerated running on the spot, arms pumping in the air, makes for faster motion than simply concentrating on getting your feet to move as quickly as possible. It is exhausting. Which is perhaps the point.

For the more laid-back, Rare's take on the motion-control classic bowling is also on hand. Move your arm to the left or right to collect a ball then simply... bowl. It feels more advanced than Wii Sports, to make the obvious comparison: for a start, if you really want to be zany and wacky, you can hold the ball out in front of you and simply toss it forwards for some "interesting" results. [Couldn't do that in 2006. Sold! -Ed]

Going for the more traditional bowling technique feels more refined. You can put spin on the ball quite tangibly. However, for some reason the ball occasionally seems to "jump" for no reason during a bowling motion. Perhaps the player, stooping down to bowl, leaves the camera's field of view?

Kinect Sports.

The final section of the Kinect Sports demo is something rather more off-the-wall. Using motion control you're able to "conduct the crowd" and bring them to various states of euphoria exclusively through use of gestures. It's an interesting vision of how using the fully animated Avatars can create something new.

At this point it's worth pointing out that while elements of Kinect Sports may well be gesture-controlled, the impression you get when playing is that it's very close to full 1:1 tracking. For example, if you feel like running down the entire course in the hurdles game with your hands in the air then this is reflected in your on-screen Avatar.

Lag is present in Kinect Sports, as it is in all of the titles we see, but Rare's on-hand technical and communications expert Nick Burton pegs the game latency at 150ms, defined by the time taken for light to reach the camera and until the display information leaves the 360 output (in other words, you can add TV lag on top of that).

Burton says that lag categorically hasn't been an issue during development, and perhaps with some time it won't be in gameplay. Successfully leaping over a hurdle doesn't seem quite as easy as it should be, and it's interesting to note that dodging obstacles isn't quite as easy as we expected it would be either.

Kinect Adventures

Which brings us on nicely to Kinect Adventures, the full game from the team led by Natal creative mastermind Kudo Tsunoda. Yes, the old Ricochet demo is back, but this time it is integrated into a full game consisting of 20 different "adventures". So, mini-games. We get the chance to play three of them. Ricochet itself remains much as the same as it was when we played it last year, albeit with graphical changes.

However, what's curious about the game is that the 1:1 mapping between human motion and character movement on-screen isn't quite as smooth as I remember it. At gamescom last year the on-screen Avatar was uncannily mapped to your actions. Here the skeletal structure seems somewhat more rigid, almost as though the number of control points has been dialled back.

The obstacle course section sees your Avatar on a moving trolley, and you're tasked with moving out of the way of oncoming barriers, whether by side-stepping, ducking or jumping. Collecting bonus tokens is the name of the game and that often involves striking a pose to match the way that the pickups are arranged as they hurtle towards you.

Kinect Adventures.

All pretty good fun but, like Kinect Sports, you often feel as though you're jumping or ducking too late, and that you need to "buffer up" your commands in advance. You can blame lag for this, of course, but I think the issue here isn't just a technological one - it's biological too.

Let's assume for a moment that both Kinect Sports and Kinect Adventures do indeed have 150ms latency. One reason for the feeling of lag will be that the human body simply doesn't react as quickly as our fingers do. It takes us longer to physically jump than it does for someone to push a button with the intent of jumping. All this is over and above whatever latency gesture recognition might add, of course.

One element about Kinect Adventures which really must be applauded is its implementation of split-screen two-player. It's literally drop-in, drop-out in a local flavour. If you're playing the game solo and someone wants to join in, all they need do is "jump in" to the scene and start playing. The game automatically changes into a split-screen configuration and will return to the solo view if one of the players then decides to duck out of the camera's view.

The final game in the three-level demo of Kinect Adventures is River Rush. You've caught a glimpse of it in the now-infamous Parade video of Kinect in action. One or two players take on rough waters collecting tokens, dodging obstacles and leaping to different parts of the level. Weave or step left or right to move the onscreen dingy and jump to send it flying into the air.

All very straightforward, all very fine. It's worth pointing out that Kinect Adventures uses Unreal Engine, so along with Rare's Kinect Sports it's the best-looking title.

Dance Central

The most effective Kinect game at this evening's hands-on event, though? Harmonix's Dance Central has got "massive hit" written all over it.

The idea is extremely straightforward: choose the track of your choice (Lady Gaga has a sizeable representation), then mirror the on-screen dancer's moves. These individual moves are buffered up with explanatory directions to the side so you can effortlessly move from one step to the next. It's easy to get into, great fun to play and because it's essentially a massive exercise in gesture control, there is no discernible latency.

Dance Central.

It's ironic that the game with perhaps the least Kinect technology in direct evidence during gameplay is probably going to be the biggest hit, but the bottom line is that the genius is all in the implementation, and Harmonix has got that just right.

Dance Central occasionally diverts from its "mirror my actions" gameplay to instrumental breaks, where the on-screen dancer disappears to be replaced by the player in the form of Kinect's depth map, rounded out and smoothed off, then filtered with a range of psychedelic effects. When the break is over, you're also treated to a range of stills taken from the camera, showing the best of your freestyle groovin'.

It's a nice diversion from the core gameplay, and those "action stills" crop up in other titles like Kinect Adventures and Kinect Sports. Rare's game even offers the chance to upload the "player view" camera feed to YouTube - the first time I can recall that an Xbox 360 title has been allowed to communicate in such a manner with a third-party website outside the Live domain.

Your Shape: Fitness Evolved

Just like Dance Central, the Kinect hardware is also tailor-made for the next game on the roster, Your Shape: Fitness Evolved.

There are definite shades of Wii Fit here. The player follows the movements of the on-screen guide in a series of yogic movements, punctuated with mini-games that include clearing the screen of blocks by punching and kicking them.

The visuals are clean and attractive and the transposition of player motion into on-screen action looks great. Lag is clearly in evidence, but it's not exactly an issue for a game like this, and only really apparent during the faster-paced mini-games.

Joy Ride

Probably the weakest of the titles at the event is Kinect's Joy Ride. It's a cartoon-esque, Crazy Taxi-style driving game that uses a control system extremely similar to the old Natal Burnout demo we saw at E3 and gamescom last year.

Hands are held out before you to simulate holding the steering wheel just like the old demo, but there are some new additions: nitros are engaged by pulling back on the "wheel" and then thrusting forward, while physically leaning left and right allows you to exaggerate the turning motion, almost like a conventional power drift.

It's also possible to gain "mad air" and perform various car-based stunts through the contortion of your body and indeed there are game modes and environments specifically designed to put this system through its paces.

Kinect Joy Ride.

However, Joy Ride is clearly showing some issues. First and foremost, from a technical perspective the game appears to be having problems locking on to certain people. While I "interfaced" with it easily enough, poor old Johnny Minkley completely failed to get the motion sensor's attention, leading to three reboots and even a quick glance at the "NUI" (natural user interface, apparently) debug tool to check that the Eurogamer TV chief's skeletal data was being processed, which it was.

Joy Ride also highlights something else of interest that needs work: menu navigation. During the Project Natal Experience shenanigans we got a glimpse of the new Xbox 360 front-end optimised for use with Kinect - it consists of a range of on-screen buttons with the user's hand controlling a glowing sphere, highlighting each option.

In that context, it looked as though a gestural "prod" was used to activate the button. Joy Ride (and indeed Rare's Kinect Sports) also uses the same basic idea, but instead of prodding you leave your "hand" in position on the button and wait for it to engage. It feels clunky and unresponsive, and you also find your hand having to rest in odd, uncomfortable positions simply to activate a menu option.

It's not exactly a major problem in the greater scheme of things, but you still get the sense that developers are finding their feet with these mechanisms. It's interesting to note that in Kudo Tsunoda's Kinect Adventures there is no "prod" - instead you progress through (single "button") menus by making a "zip" style motion, helpfully mirrored on-screen with an appropriate on-screen graphic.

Jump in?

The overall verdict from the handful of games we see is, by and large, positive. These are not core games for traditional gamers - indeed, the only game we've seen that could make that claim is the Star Wars title glimpsed at the Project Natal Experience (and sadly missing from this event). But the impression you get from the best of the games is that they are infectious family fun: they're genuinely entertaining and you want to get involved.

This need to participate is the magical ingredient that made the Wii such a hit, and Microsoft has definitely tapped into that same rich vein, but provided its own unique appeal that provides a sense of involvement that goes well beyond the fun offered by the Wiimote waggle controls.

Whether that sense of entertainment can endure, and whether developers will overcome the many and varied technical challenges of the system remains to be seen, but based on this initial playtest the signs are looking good.

Xbox 360 Kinect is due out this November along with a range of first- and third-party software titles.

Picture of Richard.

About Richard Leadbetter

Rich has been a games journalist since the days of 16-bit and specialises in technical analysis. Commonly known around Eurogamer as the Blacksmith of the Future.

Read more articles from Richard by visiting the Richard Leadbetter archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (121) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Dolly #1 2 years ago

    poor mans cowboys and indians

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #2 2 years ago

    "So did you get a chance to actually play it or are you just re-reporting the official PR?"

    We played it at an event after the premiere. Why not read the piece?

  • jonsaan #3 2 years ago

    I can't help but think Nintendo will be laughing heartily this E3. They are on to the next thing and everyone else is playing catchup with a market they have already sewn up and moved on from.
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/10 @ 10:55

  • Gambit1977 #4 2 years ago

    Surely if it's 1:1 you will actually have to 'hurdle'?

  • Monkey_Puncher #5 2 years ago

    *sigh*

    Was hoping for something more than Wii 1.5.

    Certainly no really innovation shown in any of these titles.

  • Mkwone #6 2 years ago

    You might be able to tell the difference between a review and an advert but you can't tell this is a hands on. :p

    In terms of the product it's self it's pretty much what i expected... and feared, if Kinetic is to become a must have i need more than mini games to convince me. Hopefully the rest of E3 will provide 'proper' games using it

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #7 2 years ago

    "I read it. But given the reliability of games journalists in general, skepticism is a pre-requisite."

    Well, by the time you posted your comment it had been online for about half a minute, so forgive *my* scepticism.

  • Bagpuss #8 2 years ago

    Please,please,please, let this be a miserable flop at retail, perhaps then MS will realise that what is needed is a new next gen Xbox...
    NOT THIS FUCKING GIMMICKY SHIT.......

  • I\'mListening #9 2 years ago

    While I wasn't really expecting much from this I have to say I feel massively disappointed with what has been shown. This caters more to the needs of my four year old son than for me. Shouldn't it be the other way round? I'm the one supporting console and software manufacturers. Motion control (or any new hardware development) should be aimed at GAMERS, and not just the average Joe off the street who, like as not, has no real interest in gaming.

  • deadmonkeyuk #10 2 years ago

    The biggest problem Kinect has for me is it simply looks like a HD version of what we have all seen already. I was not interested in the Wii except for a few drunk parties.

  • mcmonkeyplc #11 2 years ago

    Good stuff. I'm actually looking forward to seeing what they show today. More proper games please! Also the only reason I really want it is to control my xbox dashboard.

    I know, it's childish, but it looks awesome! Minority report control! Wooooooooo!

  • IronGiant #12 2 years ago

    So basically it's not very good, still has technical problems and will only be decent for exercise or dancing. At least C&VG had the balls to say as much.

  • RodHull #13 2 years ago

    Where in the name of shitting crikey is Killer Instinct? They've even renamed Natal Kinect which can only be explained by the need for KInect. You know it makes sense!

  • RedSparrows #14 2 years ago

    God, you people are boringly predictable.

  • Dizzy #15 2 years ago

    Will drive girlfriends wild. Good stuff. The calory meter could be an amazing draw for some people. I am actually glad that we don't get "traditional" games using this tech because I think they would struggle to work.

    PatAU.. go back to the NeoGAF emo thread about this.

  • INSOMANiAC #16 2 years ago

    So in a nutshell, its shit

  • peteb #17 2 years ago

    Apparently the developer of Your Shape: Fitness Evolved wanted it to be called simply "Your Shape" but they were forced to add the additional "Fitness Evolved".

  • sneetch #18 2 years ago

    @PatAU
    As for reading time, I can skim read quick

    Perhaps you should try reading it more carefully as your "skim read" technique seems a bit faulty.

  • Goodfella #19 2 years ago

    Fitness Evolved? lol.

    Oh God, now I've got an image in my head of Masterchief doing aerobics, arrggh!

  • Widge #20 2 years ago

    EG Twitter feed sounds positive. I can't check this out while at work.

    MUGWUM, have you had a go at Sports Champions? How would you weigh up Kinect Sports against that. I feel Sports Champions looks a little devoid of fun.

  • DavidBoring #21 2 years ago

    "The overall verdict from the handful of games we see is, by and large, positive."

    really? text reads like a 6/10 r even 4/10

  • laharl80 #22 2 years ago

    Microsoft already have an effective solution for the lag issue.
    They've been using it since their E3 conference last year.
    All you need is pre-recorded footage of whatever game you want to play.
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/10 @ 12:18

  • Praetorianer #23 2 years ago

    One thing I'd like to hear, Mr. Leadbetter. Would you pay for it=is it worth the 100 something €s?

  • rotmm #24 2 years ago

    @MattDamon, "PatAU - What a dick"

    A succinct review of the poster PatAU which, while not giving a final score out of 10, leaves the reader in no doubt of the overall quality (or lack therefore) of said poster.

    Well done.

  • JayKwon #25 2 years ago

    I love gadgets. If they don't make me play Fable or Gears or whatever major game this way, but make new games especially for Kinect, I can see myself buying this.

  • spiritsnake #26 2 years ago

    running on the spot to burn calories,hmmm why not just run outside in the fresh air and get some vitamin D while you're at it!!!
    i was waiting for some ground breaking games with natal,not this already done a million times shit!!!

  • Dolly #27 2 years ago

    Seriously, when will a minority report game be out for it? I want to pretend I'm Tom Cruise, beating off scientology haters with my hands.

  • Widge #28 2 years ago

    Interesting point from the EG Twitter is that you have to factor human lag into things such as jumping actions. I’m guessing thats the time taken to bend knees and spring.

  • JohnnyWashnGo #29 2 years ago

    What happens when my dog runs in front of the TV during one of these active gaming sessions?

    Do I get a 'here comes a new challenger' type screen because Kinect has discovered another warm body in front of it or does it ignore the canine intruder?

  • Dolly #30 2 years ago

    More importantly JohnnyWashnGo, can I throw my dog sideways across the room and have Kinect recognise it as a Hadouken?

  • Spydy #31 2 years ago

    Not sold. Shovel-ware aimed squarely at families who by and large will already own a Wii. Very disappointed.

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #32 2 years ago

    Wonder if the wife will get one and decide to lose a few pounds, she could do with losing a few.

    Hurrggh! Must have been temporarily possesed by Les Dawson there.

  • el_pollo_diablo #33 2 years ago

    They really should make a cat chasing game purely for dogs.

  • lucky_jim #34 2 years ago

    Every article on Natal (sorry, Kinect) seems to make me less and less interested in it. This one's no exception. I know it's not really aimed at me, but it's a pity because the original specs (before they ditched the dedicated processor) sounded to me like there could have been applications in "core" games too. Without the processor, either the game will suffer, or the accuracy/lag will suffer: basically, something's got to give if you're getting the 360's processor to do all the work.

  • Lexx87 #35 2 years ago

    It sounds totally god awful.

  • Bremenacht #36 2 years ago

    Haha! Who now dares claim that Rare have 'lost it', or that they've been reduced to becoming Microsoft's 'Nintendo Emulation Division'?

    Take that, doubters!

  • Liamario #37 2 years ago

    I like how the article tries and pretends that it's not that bad every step of the way, when in reality, it has leaped about as mush as a paralysed high jumper
    Edited by 2 at 14/06/10 @ 17:19

  • Haloboy #38 2 years ago

    I just want a wife slapping game that ensures I won't get prison time.

  • fknetwork #39 2 years ago

    Not that impressive so far but I am holding out hope for the main event later today, will be watching live, if kenex still doesn't impress I won't be happy!

  • cen4pgb #40 2 years ago

    So far looks likes its has the potential to match the Wii's ability in party games.

    Now we need a list of more hardcore games that are going to use it. Personally I suspect much of said list will provide augmented normal controls rather than full motion.

    And looks like need for one less remote while playing DVDs. If its not over sensitive.

  • Haloboy #41 2 years ago

    Oh alright I'll settlle with a prison arse slapping game that ensures my wife is not part of the staff.

  • Retro_ #42 2 years ago

    I've been reading some seriously damming reports on this, the Eurogamer report is rather kinder but reading between the lines you can clearly see that all is not well with this product, who would of guessed it.... oh ok, nearly everyone!

  • theiceman #43 2 years ago

    Meh Meh Meh Meh Meh Meh Meh Meh Meh Meh Meh

  • Darren #44 2 years ago

    Oh god... it's the Wii all over again, isn't it, only for the Xbox 360? I just cannot get excited about Kinect and it's sad to see a once talented developer like Rare turning their back on core games to make stuff for the casual market. :?

    I wish Microsoft every success with Kinect but I think it's come far too late in the Xbox 360's life to make any major impact. Are the existing fan base, who are mostly core gamers, really interested in this kind of thing? Don't the casual gamers already have a Wii that does pretty much the same thing?

  • kangarootoo #45 2 years ago

    @PatAU

    You clearly have issues all of your own. Did a games journalist bully you at school or something?

  • des #46 2 years ago

    "I've been reading some seriously damming reports on this"

    Not everyone was given hands on with Kinect ...the rest is "Why did i have to leave my basement for this,what is this Cirque de Soleil show???"

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #47 2 years ago

    Unfortunately, MS seem to have invested so much effort into this and it just doesn't look to me like its going to deliver.

  • Zerobob #48 2 years ago

    "What happens when my dog runs in front of the TV during one of these active gaming sessions?

    Do I get a 'here comes a new challenger' type screen because Kinect has discovered another warm body in front of it or does it ignore the canine intruder?"

    Well what about other PEOPLE?! Must Natal be used only when alone, or when everybody in the room is sitting dead still?

    I mean, we didn't need a vast array of poorly implemented motion control games on horribly ageing hardware, but lots of people still found the need to buy the Wii, and never used it after the first week of purchase. I don't see this gimmicky 'flash in the pan' approach to selling poor games with poor controls (apart from possibly Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess, neither of which strictly require the Wiimote) as healthy for the industry...

    ...and now we have Microsoft trying to pull the same old trick, when they have got soooo many things right with the X360. I don't think this is a step in the right direction at all. I see it as one horrible step further than Nintendo into researching how to make worse games with worse controls that have no depth to keep you playing them. I think you simply need some type of controller when playing games, and I don't see myself eating these words.

  • rotmm #49 2 years ago

    @cen4, "Now we need a list of more hardcore games that are going to use it. Personally I suspect much of said list will provide augmented normal controls rather than full motion."

    I think that's kinda missing the point. Hardcore gamers like most of the people who comment here are well catered for already on the 360. Natal/Kinect is not designed for us (though there may be the odd "augmentation" like you said) but rather for the rest of the family and/or non-regular gamers.

    When I have a few people around and they want to play a game, it's pretty much Rock Band that comes out and even that has to be set to no-fail mode. A Wii-like experience would probably be welcomed for those situations.

  • macmurphy #50 2 years ago

    @ luckyjim. 'This one's not really aimed at me.'

    I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. Who is it aimed at? Everyone says 'I know this is aimed at families' but who will really buy one of these over a Wii? You can knock the Wii for a lot of things, but it does have a very solid lineup of fun party and family games. So anyone looking to buy a system for the casual gamer will have a Wii, or will buy one - they also know the market leader is a safe bet and will have a steady supply of decent games. We're left with everyone else who already owns a 360 - if it is their sole machine they are probably not into casual games anyway. My nephews (11/12) had a Wii but sold it on to buy a 360 because they never playerd the casual Wii fare and wanted FIFA and Forza - they both think Natal looks rubbish.

    I quite like a bit of Wii Sports with my family at Christmas and so already have a Wii as my 'fun and family machine (though lately with MHTri and Galaxy 2 it's been getting all the love, but that's another post). So why the hell would I invest in Natal? If it was £50 I might take a punt but it seems to me like they have got their pricepoint all wrong - you would want a good couple of games for it so I'm guessing you'd be looking at £150 all in. Who will buy that, or rather is that realistically a pricepoint where most people can justify the purchase? I'd love to try Natal but I just can't afford that.

    I think the poster that said Natal should be included with the next X-box said it right, Natal should come with the next generation and be part of a unified strategy to win over the casual market whilst not alienating it's hardcore following. This just looks like a cobbled together cuff 3 years after the horse has bolted that appeals to the square root of fuck all. I have a 360 and I love it, but this really does have 32x written all over it.

    The Wiimote, fo all it's waggly stupidity, also has 12 buttons (not counting on/off and home, counting dpad as 4) and an analogue stick. So when you want a tight, rewarding control scheme the possibilities are there - the aiming capability adds even more control for FPS's. I might be wrong but I fail to see how Natal can ever offer anything other than gimmicky aerobics fests, unless they introduce a separate controller.

    Good luck Microsoft, and I hope I'm wrong, but apart from the Minority Report control options (which give me a lazy lob on but aren't worth £100) this looks pony.

  • Stuz359 #51 2 years ago

    I can't help but feel disappointed. THey have basically shown off a motion control device and simply ripped off Nintendo's software. I was hoping for a little more ingenuity from MS.

  • killyourtv #52 2 years ago

    looks and sounds shite

  • Rirekon #53 2 years ago

    The only real question, which I didn't see mentioned in the hands on, was what enviroment were you playing all this in?

    1. A large sterile white room with no obstacles within several feet of you
    or
    2. An off-white room with patterned floor, fabric sofa with various coloured cushions, and a bit of clutter surrounding you along with some friends rolling around laughing at your attempts

    If the answer is 1 then I'm holding out zero hopes for this working in "real life", if on the other hand it was something approaching 2 then I'll gladly take back some of my reservations.

  • Haloboy #54 2 years ago

    Looks like a kick the shit out of PatAU game would sell well at least.

  • theiceman #55 2 years ago

    Looks like MS has Dis-Kinected from it's hardcore fanbase. Oh well!!

  • Beano #56 2 years ago

    E3 2010 will be interesting ... I wonder how MS and Sony's casual gameing efforts will look when Nintendo announce Wii Party for Q3/Q4 launch?

  • axman303 #57 2 years ago

    150ms lag + 100ms typical LCD TV lag = 250ms. So, what you see on screen will be one quarter of a second behind what you're doing with your body. Great. So basically, this will be next to useless for any games that require fast reactions.

  • theiceman #58 2 years ago

    @ ClubHeaven

    Don't forget TENA for the ladies when they piss themselves laughing at us trying to look cool using the bloody thing!

  • roz123 #59 2 years ago

    Looks like alot of people are suffering from post-natal depression this morning

  • theiceman #60 2 years ago

    @ roz123

    PMSL
    +1

  • Negotiator #61 2 years ago

    So looking good even at this stage, as developers become more used to Kinect the slight issue eurogamer had with some of the games will disappear. This is just the beginning and the promise of a star wars game is starting to excite me.

  • DavidBoring #62 2 years ago

    "Joy Ride also highlights something else of interest that needs work: menu navigation. ...It feels clunky and unresponsive, and you also find your hand having to rest in odd, uncomfortable positions simply to activate a menu option."

    no minority report then ?
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/10 @ 12:35

  • theiceman #63 2 years ago

    Everyone here is in need of ANTI-NATAL care here....

  • Ptarmigandalf #64 2 years ago

    "the time the light takes to reach the camera". Yup, I'm convinced that's the main cause of the lag... >:(

  • onezeonx #65 2 years ago

    First off I haves 360 AND a PS3 :D

    I think Microsoft have messed up alittle here!
    Sony has Move which is basically like a Wii but alot better and has actual controls

    This will enable Sony to target casual gamers but also hardcore if they select the right games and good controls.

    Microsofts problem is the fact there is no controller and there for alot more limited for anything other than having a laugh and mess around type games!
    This hands on shows it's nothing more ATM and Nintendo and Sony must be laughing.

    Sonys Move will be crap to start with but has more gaming potential IMO

  • IronCladChicken #66 2 years ago

    Mmmm - I think they really needed to have sorted out the lag.

    @Darren
    'it's sad to see a once talented developer like Rare turning their back on core games to make stuff for the casual market'

    The gamer market had been shrinking for a good while before the Wii was released - That with the average gamer age getting older year on year (I think it's around 32 atm) - For the market to continue and grow gaming REALLY needs new blood - & if casual gaming can helpdraw in non-standard demographics (which it seems to be doing) then it's a good thing for the industry and the hobby.

    However I think you are right - This does seem a bit late in this gens lifecycle for something like this to be released (though I guess with Microsoft - a company that originally released the XBox as a PR exercise) - It could be seen as a beta for the next variation?

  • the_inchworm #67 2 years ago

    I guess I'm in the minority of thinking this sounds utterly excellent, then.

    One of the things that most people dislike about exercise is that it's boring. Running on a treadmill is dull. Lifting weights is monotonous. To me at least, anything that makes exercise fun is great. I actually want smaller mini games that I can dip and out of to make an 'interactive workout' that I wouldn't find soul-crushing. Hell, I'd be happy enough just playing ping pong with this thing for hours on end.

    Certainly I wouldn't look to the Kinect for an enriching RPG experience, but jumping around swatting balls like a loon and getting fit having a good time is a very strong argument to me. My only concern is that, unlike the Wii, this system is able to interpret my gestures as I intend them. If it can I will evangelise this to the ends of the Earth.

  • edhe #68 2 years ago

    So there are all the 3rd party games still to be announced - cool.

  • Repsode #69 2 years ago

    I must say I'm a little confused here. From the looks of this Microsoft is going directly for Wii owners with the exact same stuff those owners have been playing for around 4 years now. Maybe Microsoft (and Sony) hope that those people will behave like the typical gamer and go "OOOH SHINY. DO WANT" and I'm not sure they're going to get that response.

    Most will likely look to the software rather than the hardware and ask "What do these motion control systems have that my Wii doesn't?"

    I have a feeling that segment's upgrade criteria might be different from ours and by merely jumping on the bandwagon and little else MS and Sony might not have done enough to woo them.

  • EmiliasHorse #70 2 years ago

    I thought the hands on was rather positive then I read the comments.....hmmmm. While I agree these are not the sort of games I wanted on Kinect I think it is a nice starting point. I imagine the wife would be just as chuffed with this as she is with the Wii ....with one HUGE bonus of her boosting my achievement score while I get to drink more beer.

    So sold it hurts.

  • Number1Laing #71 2 years ago

    Last year I read some article where one of the guys working on this said that MS assembled a top-notch team of experts in the field and it felt like the Manhattan Project to him, just a bunch of all-stars cranking away at revolutionary technology.

    I don't doubt for a second that Kinect is revolutionary tech. But this is what we get out of it? Wii game clones? EyeToy clones? Come on Microsoft. Nobody wants this junk on the 360. The idea of paying all these people and doing all this research so you can rip off the Wii's popular titles feels... wrong.

    Oh, and 150ms lag is a dealbreaker, I don't care what anyone says.
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/10 @ 13:03

  • cen4pgb #72 2 years ago

    @rotmm

    Don't be so foolish, yes this is mainly aimed at the casual market, but its silly to think that MS won't try and get hardcore games to implliment it in some way.

    MS will try and encroach the hardcore market here, though most I suspect as I said before will augment a normal controller with it rather than replace it in te HC market. Why ignore so much of your customer base?

  • des #73 2 years ago

    "Oh, and 150ms lag is a dealbreaker, I don't care what anyone says. "

    There are console FPS that have higher lag than that,some are pretty hyped too.

    EG has an article about that.

    Edited by 1 at 14/06/10 @ 13:18

  • higganos #74 2 years ago

    I seriously CANNOT WAIT for this to come out. SERIOUSLY. Day 1 purchase for me. DAY BASTARDING 1!

    I don't care how much it costs. If it's £1000 it's still getting bought. Shitting bought insta-buy.

    Best gadget ever. Best shitting product ever made. MS can have my money, let's face it, they deserve it. Yes siree. Thanks Microsoft! Lovin this shit!

    JOB DONE.

    /saunters off to bank with MS advertising cheque...

    Edited by 1 at 14/06/10 @ 13:21

  • ignatiusjreilly #75 2 years ago

    OK, so everyone negged PatAU to hell and back but there is something to what he's saying, no? We all know previews have a tendency to be positive, but this did seem like something of a managed message.

    "The overall verdict from the handful of games we see is, by and large, positive." "but based on this initial playtest the signs are looking good."

    You only have to read the internet today to see that the general impression is a long way from positive. Journos' and bloggers' Twitter accounts seem to giving a much more honest impression than the published pieces today. I don't expect EG to report "total fail", but this does seem as though it is trying very hard to stay positive.
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/10 @ 13:21

  • malmer #76 2 years ago

    150ms lag isn't bad at all. Actually it is very good.

    Halo has between 100 and 150 ms.
    GTA IV has between 133 and 200ms.
    Killzone 2 has between 150 and 183ms

    So 150ms lag is not even anything to discuss as a problem, unless you're going to stop gaming all together.
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/10 @ 13:30

  • Bitkari #77 2 years ago

    You only have to read the internet today to see that the general impression is a long way from positive. Journos' and bloggers' Twitter accounts seem to giving a much more honest impression than the published pieces today. I don't expect EG to report "total fail", but this does seem as though it is trying very hard to stay positive.

    To assume dishonesty on the part of Eurogamer, simply because they're not following the popular narrative established by an army of Angry Internet People is more than a little silly.

  • Bitkari #78 2 years ago

    Well what about other PEOPLE?! Must Natal be used only when alone, or when everybody in the room is sitting dead still?

    There are many videos about showing whole families using this stuff, with a couple of active players, and other people hot-seating (or should that be hot-standing?!) from their couch as needed.

    I suspect then, that it's fairly safe to assume that this will cope with many people.

  • HisDudness #79 2 years ago

    Yeah I have to say, this reveal is getting absolutely panned elsewhere. Anyone seen this yet?

    I'll let you draw your own conclusions...

  • ignatiusjreilly #80 2 years ago

    @Bitkari

    It's not really dishonesty, it's just not being too harsh on a product that you know is such a massive deal for Microsoft. All sites do it.

    Like I said it's the reason previews are generally positive even when we can tell the game is rubbish. The review will usually tell a more honest story and I suspect that'll be the same here. There's a general unspoken agreement in games sites not to be too hard at the preview stage, and there are nearly always improvements made afterwards so it's not really fair to cast a harsh judgement atthis stage.

    But I think many of us suspect that just as with us commenters, there were a few "WTF" thoughts running through Johnny Minkley's head that didn't make it to the finished article...

    edit: Actually, having read Techcrunch's write-up, Eurogamer could have probably just published WTF in 50pt letters and got across the vibe of the event just as well ;) Funny read, I recommend it.

    "If my mind could have been re-boggled, this would have been the time for it. Keep in mind that this whole time, the entire cast of fauns (plus their yellow, meditative leader) were perched on the boulders beneath this constantly rotating room, swaying and pouting and pointing at objects of interest."
    Edited by 2 at 14/06/10 @ 13:59

  • thesnowman #81 2 years ago

    I never expected this to be aimed at me or more serious gamers. However I can already see that Kinect would get a lot of play time in our house with my wife, 4 year old boy and 1 year old girl playing something like this. My wife plays guitar hero, but would never dream of picking up a controller, but I can actually see her playing the sports, fitness and dancing games. I do hope the second generation of games up the ante somewhat thou.

  • mingster #82 2 years ago

    The fact you are posting in this comments section meens Kinect is not aimed at you.
    It's trying to steal the wii casual gamer crowd of grannies, women and young children.
    Nothing to see here for you please move on.
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/10 @ 14:08

  • jag10 #83 2 years ago

    http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=b9OBBY21n3w

  • jag10 #84 2 years ago

    OMG! kinect was a PS2 game for eyetoy LMAO!

    http://www. eyetoy.com/index.asp?pageID=68

  • Marshall2008 #85 2 years ago

    Did you not get to try out the Star Wars game as reported by Joystiq?

  • rotmm #86 2 years ago

    @jag10, "OMG! kinect was a PS2 game for eyetoy LMAO!

    http://www. eyetoy.com/index.asp?pageID=68"

    OMG! No it wasn't LAMO!

    OMG! It seems you suffer from dyslexia LMAO!

  • mossychops001 #87 2 years ago

    ^^
    http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=OpnvR_j5nBc

  • TitusCrow #88 2 years ago

    PatAU I think has been harshly judged here today, there is nothing wrong with a healthy dose of scepticism, especially in these days in games. Coming from where I'm standing as a owner of PC, 360 and ps3 ( didn't get a wii yet though played it at my little cousins ) I think this brings little to the market for the average hard core gamer.

    I am very unimpressed with this at the moment, the lag sounds none to great and the price point is rather hefty. I can only assume they wish to punish early adopters before a round of price cuts before Xmas so as to appeal more to the mainstream.

    I think this is a shameless cash in and "me too" moment after seeing the success of the Wii. Though the mass market penetration they are hoping for certainly won’t come at this price point. There needs to be a relevant reason or 3 to get this and at least 2 killer apps that are more than party and social ware for this.

    I can see the potential but I think it would have made sense to put the money for this launch and the R&D into the next gen Xbox which could have launched with this onboard and immediately obtained saturation of the new player base, which would have the nock on effect of making it far more appealing to develop for.

    I will need to be dragged screaming into this one; I suspect so will may other hardcore gamers. The only way to do that is make stuff for this device we just can’t do without... I wait to see.

  • ignatiusjreilly #89 2 years ago

    Did you not get to try out the Star Wars game as reported by Joystiq

    From the looks of it, not even the person on stage playing it was trying it out. It seems they were merely waving their arms around in time to pre-recorded video, or at least the the onscreen actions had little to do with what the player was doing...

  • Jlmadyson #90 2 years ago

    Sounds like awesome impressions. Will see how the price turns out then.

  • Les #91 2 years ago

    " It feels clunky and unresponsive, and you also find your hand having to rest in odd, uncomfortable positions simply to activate a menu option.

    It's not exactly a major problem in the greater scheme of things"

    Of course it is. It's poor design. We have a solution that works (physical buttons on a controller) and it's being replaced by something that's worse.

  • rotmm #92 2 years ago

    @TitusCrow, "PatAU I think has been harshly judged here today, there is nothing wrong with a healthy dose of scepticism, especially in these days in games."

    He's not being judged for being sceptical of Kinect, he's been judged a dick for asking an unneccessary question that would have been answered if he had actually read the text, and then a few posts later pretending that he had actually read it.

    Being a sceptic is a good thing. Going out of your way to look like a prat is not.

  • JJrabbit #93 2 years ago

    I might be repeating something that's already been said, so apologies if I have. However, a quick skim through of the comments show some disappointment because it caters to a younger market. Whilst true in this case, I'm looking the E3 reveal of Kinect from a more potential/technical POV. Naturally the games they demo will be Wii-like games. However, as long as the tech is successful, then I'm sure there will be hardcore game titles using Kinect as a form of input further down the line. In fact, I'd prefer not to have hardcore games solely relying on Kinect, but use it in a more subtle way at times when it's intuitive.

    It would be nice to have a demo of AAA titles using it, but as long as it works as it should then I'll still be keeping an eye on this.

  • Les #94 2 years ago

    "I don't expect EG to report "total fail", but this does seem as though it is trying very hard to stay positive."

    Exactly. Nothing appears to work that well at this point. I think it's a bit naive to use the same "well, it's not the finished product"-preview stance here as many of the issues experienced might not be fixable at all. E.g. the camera not picking up a player is a completely different issue than excessive pop-up or screen tear in preview code.

  • Collymilad #95 2 years ago

    So MS are pulling a Nintendo then? Or at least trying to.

    Hopefully Sony don't do the same with move.

  • brigadier #96 2 years ago

    Oh fuck off.

  • laharl80 #97 2 years ago

    You have to hand it to Microsoft.
    They have managed to unite PS, Xbox and Ninty fanboys.
    We all hate what they came up with.
    Looking around other sites, its the same everywhere.
    You could probably count the positive comments on one hand.
    The destructoid response is particularly funny.

  • Shikasama #98 2 years ago

    I wish people would get over the 'lolwii' crap and think for a minute. This is frankly an amazing piece of consumer technology. It is a much bigger jump than hamfisted 3dtv.

    On top of that, even if you don't like THESE games (and Microsoft don't expect the people on this website to) if you bothered to actually read the fucking thing before posting your portents of doom you would notice that the implementation of Kinect has been, by and large, very good. The cross title integration is very good. the motion control seems to be working well, if not brilliantly.

    You lot make me hate the internet.

  • andromeda #99 2 years ago

    "Please,please,please, let this be a miserable flop at retail, perhaps then MS will realise that what is needed is a new next gen Xbox...
    NOT THIS FUCKING GIMMICKY SHIT......."


    well said sir.

  • BlinxHDD #100 2 years ago

    The positive conclusion doesn't match up with the impressions and it sounds like the tracking's not good for the type of games I like to play.

  • Dolly #101 2 years ago

    Insert cock motif


    (is probably my favourite anagram of Microsoft Kinect)

  • onyxbox #102 2 years ago

    The way I see it...

    Eye Toy was fun for about a couple of days, and MS are on the wrong train of thought if they think Natal/Kinect would be any more fun by adding some stereoscopicness and infra red stuff.

    Nintendo knew this when they made the Wii, they understood there needs to be something with buttons on it and that it needs to track things like twists of wrist ect. and pointing at stuff on screen.

    Natal/Kinect can't do these things and is a step back from the Wii in many regards.

    As for Sony... well they have just taken the Wii design and refined it, which is much better idea IMO... Copy a successful idea (Sony/Wiimote ripoff) or copy a failed idea (MS/EyeToy ripoff)?

  • ronuds #103 2 years ago

    Well, no games I really want to play, but I'm sure someone will like them.

    Not surprised at the negativity in here, though. You guys don't like anything. What we think and say here means nothing in the overall scheme of things, but I wish there was a little more maturity shown about it.

  • irrelevanthuman #104 2 years ago

    I am not especially interested in new ways to control games(particularly if they are poorly implemented),I am interested in gameplay,pure and simple and it appears to be lacking here somewhat.I want to see some new titles I can get excited about by all the main players.
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/10 @ 17:04

  • drumbaby #105 2 years ago

    Sounds like £20 worth of kit, or however much an EyeToy should cost.

  • Douche #106 2 years ago

    Fucking hell - is everyone so pissed because it is a monday?

  • Chufty #107 2 years ago

    So did EG just re-reivew Wii Sports, Mario Party, Let's Dance, Wii Fit and Mario Kart?

  • darc #108 2 years ago

    I hope Your Shape will incorporate some kind of resistance training (eg. optional free weights or resistance bands) a la Wii Active in addition to doing the whole Wii Fit thing. I've enjoyed Wii Active much more than Wii Fit, but often the WiiMote/nunchuck prove a little inaccurate. Kinect is the next logical step, if they do it right.
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/10 @ 18:41

  • vizzini #109 2 years ago

    Anyone hoping this kit will sell or be allowed in people's houses; without a positive or indifferent opinion by core gamers are very optimistic.

    Dishwashers, Fridges, Kettles, Vacuum Cleaners, etc still don't get green lit by naïve tech consumers in most homes; they get approved by people that know technology more often than not. A negative reception from knowledgeable consumers can kill almost any tech product.

    If core gamers have taken a dislike to this motion control solution then Microsoft at least need to turn that negative into an indifferent opinion; possibly by addressing any technology shortcomings.

    Core gamers I know were initially indifferent to the Wii & guitar hero accessories, but at least acknowledge they were well conceived original ideas.

  • secombe #110 2 years ago

    Subtle implimentation could be interesting, I'm thinking head tracking in Forza as an example...as long as it just supplements traditional control methods

    Loads of mini games though? Welcome to several years ago, in fact they appear to have gone out of their way to make this look as Wii-like as possible.

  • drxym #111 2 years ago

    The way Natal / Kinect has launched was all very predictable. Of course its for mini / party / fitness games because its virtually impossible to make it work with existing titles. It has no physical controls, suffers significant latency and even the act of making exaggerated motions increases times even further over discrete button presses.

    What strikes me most about the launch lineup of games (see http://i46.tinypic .com/2u8exlg.png here for image) is if you masked out the XBox logo you could be looking at 15 Wii shovelware titles. About the only one which I think will be any cop is the Harmonix Dance game.

  • makeamazing #112 2 years ago

    Subtle implimentation could be interesting, I'm thinking head tracking in Forza as an example...as long as it just supplements traditional control methods

    Yes that could be very cool, but not for the touted cost of £100 or whatever it is.... thats why they really need to bundle it, but it doesnt sound like that is happening? (or did i miss that?)

    I thought the Eyepet thing was really cute (though the girls hands didnt seem to match the onscreen actions, the fitness thing was cool (not my thing but interesting), and I thought the dancing was probably the best (though not my taste), with regards to the Natal stuff. But i do question how much of the Wii market will move over if this is not bundled.

  • Grayvern #113 2 years ago

    There's is a place for this in gaming.

    But if control schemes become more important than:

    The intensity of action in a first person shooter

    The quality of a racing games tracks.

    The addictiveness of an arcade game.

    The tension between narrative, emergence, and gameplay systems and how they combine to tell stories in virtual worlds.

    then it will be a sad day for videogames. That is my worry. All a control device can ever do is limit the boundaries of games.

  • freakzilla #114 2 years ago

    Other than Dance Central its all garbage.

  • kimchibaka #115 2 years ago

    I'm really struggling to see how much of the 360 core market this will appeal to or how it'll be a success.

  • CalmHorizons #116 2 years ago

    Les:
    "Of course it is. It's poor design. We have a solution that works (physical buttons on a controller) and it's being replaced by something that's worse."

    You've summed it up perfectly for me mate.

    It would be like replacing the PC desktop mouse with Laptop touch pads because they are more futuristic and shit.

    edit: A year from now "Kinect," will simply be referred to as Natalgate.
    Edited by 1 at 15/06/10 @ 01:58

  • LHH #117 2 years ago

    The party games weren't my cup of tea but that Dance game did look like a seller - the missus and her daughter would absolutely love it.

  • Nazo #118 2 years ago

    Can't help but feel the piece reads a bit like "bad point, bad point, bad point, it's great honest! bad point, bad point, it's looking really promising!" so a healthy dose of scepticism is warranted.

    Blaming the lag on 'body lag' is just incredible, I can't remember ever noticing such a thing in real life. If I catch a ball or jump over a hurdle I just do it, I don't have to pre-plan the action. Surely the point of Kinetic was that it was supposed to feel natural? If it doesn't then it's a fail. Why is it problems with Wii's controls are put down to failings in the Wiimote and Kinetic's are problems with the human body?!


  • Calgon #119 2 years ago

    Ok first thing is first, its a far more impressive peice of kit from a technology point of veiw than the other platforms offerings IMO, it does work, they are constantly improving it and since some of it is done software side rather than on chip now theres potential to shave off CPU cycles and minimize input lag right up untill they ship it.

    So the potential is definately there for Kinect to exceed most of the cynics expectations and genuinely offer something new to even core gamers. To get to that point it looks as though MS are going to sell this to the casual market first, I think thats a gamble really since theres a good few million core gamers with 360s already and core gamers are getting put off by the direction Wii went on the whole.

    I dont know how much difference that will really make, afterall people are still buying Wii's even though most of these casuals are probably told by their gamer mates "its crap and gimmicky this motion control lark" but I guess they were sucked in by the initial Wii buzz too at first(not likely to fall for it again).

    I think MS really do need to get the core audience interested before they launch, sell it to core gamers then they can get the casuals/none gamers in on the fun after theres enough out there. I dont think it would be that hard for MS to do just stop overselling the controller free concept and release a simple controller that does everything the core gamers want bundled with Kinetic(probably wouldnt cost them much). They want triggers or buttons to give some physical feedback? Just something palm sized with an LED on it, a trigger, maybe a couple of buttons, vibration motor, maybe even a gyroscopic sensor(1 analogue stick ontop maybe? )and thats got alot of core gamers more interested. That would nullify most of Moves advantages on its own and allow for more possibilties for core games that the competition will struggle to match.
    Edited by 1 at 16/06/10 @ 05:43

  • Gecks #120 2 years ago

    @PatAU,
    "Now natal/kinect has been praised to high heaven since it was announced as being 'revolutionary' and not once until today did anyone get to try it, and those people were still journalists who are about as reliable as gamestop/eb store managers. "

    e3 is trade-only. EVERYONE there is a journalist/biz-type, so i guess the 3DS is all smoke and mirrors to?

    fair enough it looks like microsoft pre-recorded some or all of their presentation, but then i imagine this sort of tech doesn't really work well on a stage, with all that lighting and movement, rather than a typical lounge. i'm sure nintendo are wishing they'd pre-recorded the zelda demo, after wireless interference fucked with their remotes...

    as always, the real info comes from the hands-on reports from the press, which i believe is sort of the reason we're here, but you've pre-judged that as being bullshit anyway, so what can you do?

    PS the kinect and move look pointless to me, but then - as a lot of people are already saying - it's not really for us. the 3DS stole the show for me.
    Edited by 3 at 16/06/10 @ 15:23

  • CallousB #121 2 years ago

    Kinect certainly appears to have some compelling content for the casual market..although as almost every idea appears to be a direct copy of something on the Wii/DS..it's hard to know if those consumers will be awed and pay that extra chunk of cash..or stick with what they have/know.

    I think the biggest irony with Kinect (as a "platform";) is it actually has far,far less core content than the Wii had at launch.

    I can understand Microsoft wanting to take a big slice of Nintendo's cash cake...but considering how willing current 360 owners are to spend money on core content...you'd think Microsoft would have thrown them a few bigger bones.