Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - Chaos Rising Preview

Mild chaos, turning heavier with a risk of thunder.

Almost universally well-received for its clever integration of RPG elements into the strategy mix, Dawn of War II was a high point for Warhammer's forays into the world of games. As such, when it's time to sit down with the game's associate producer, Jeff Lydell, and talk about an expansion pack, it seems reasonable to ask how the team plans to top its previous performance.

As it turns out, it's not a hard question. The team at Relic, reckons Lydell, are not only very receptive to feedback from players, but also their own harshest critics. "Every time we release a game, we know where the strong points and weak points are," he says (surely begging the question why they release games with weak points, but shh). "When we see how people react to the game, that validates which of those weak points is most important."

With Chaos Rising, the first expansion for DOW2 (it's an "expandalone", Lydell insists on saying repeatedly, despite my pointing out that he's in England now and we like to treat the language with respect), Relic has cast aside the "more of the same" recipe you might expect for an expansion. Instead it's approached the game with a shopping list of things to add and improve.

Take the Chaos race itself. Much beloved of Warhammer aficionados, the Chaos chaps are among the best bad guys in this sprawling fictional universe. Their non-appearance in Dawn of War II was a bitter disappointment to some, but Relic's thinking in reintroducing them in Chaos Rising goes beyond simple fan service. It's a narrative thing, says Lydell - and it's all about one of those weak points the team wanted to fix.

'Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - Chaos Rising' Screenshot 1

"The Chaos are quite a personal enemy," he explains. "They're not like the Orks, who just want a fight, or the Eldar who are devious and sneaky, or the Tyranids who are just hungry. The Chaos want to kick you in the shins and then laugh in your face."

DOW2's Tyranids, of course, were more of a force of nature than anything else. As a result, Lydell reckons, "they didn't really resonate with people". By comparison, the Chaos provide a meaty narrative for people to get their teeth into: they don't just want to hurt you, they want to force you to mess up (and then hurt you).

From a storytelling point of view, Chaos Rising is hinged on one of the epic science-fiction ideas the Warhammer 40,000 universe rests on. An entire planet, which was previously a bustling metropolis world, emerges from a warp into which it had disappeared some time previously. When it reappears, it's covered in thick sheets of ice - and infected with Chaos. Needless to say, it's not long before the Blood Ravens, stars of the original game, are sent off to investigate.

'Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - Chaos Rising' Screenshot 2

From the very first mission, Chaos Rising starts setting out its stall and showing off how much Relic has learned and improved since the launch of DOW2. The inclusion of Chaos provides one of the biggest new features, the Corruption meter, a meter on each of your character pages which can, if filled to certain levels, unlock various traits for your squad members.

Filling it up, however, is predicated on how you play the game - whether you act in an honourable, Space Marine style way, or let your anger and impatience get the better of you and barge through with wanton disregard for your surroundings, for example.

This is a much more subtle and important system than DOW2's rather underwhelming Tyranid infestation meta-game. Corruption is a self-selecting difficulty system in its own right, with players forced to actively choose between doing the "pure" thing (which may be a lot harder) and doing the "corrupt" thing (which is probably much easier).

"We quite often make keeping pure a difficult thing to do," Lydell explains, "so you get to choose how hard or how easy things will be, but there's a fair bit of middle ground in there. Somebody who isn't really paying attention will end up in the middle of the meter - if you want to be very corrupt, or very pure, you have to work at it."

The reasons why you might want to be very corrupt or very pure lie in the traits unlocked by the Corruption bar. Essentially bolt-on abilities for your characters, independent of its levels (the level cap, by the way, rises from 20 to 30, with each of the skill trees extending correspondingly), these are interesting abilities which all have unique trade-offs in their power. You might, for example, get a powerful new attack - but when you use it, it drains your own health.

The Corruption meter allows Relic to add even more customisation to the game's RPG-style character sheets, but without adding too much extra complexity, since the decisions you make regarding Corruption come through the flow of play rather than being left for you to puzzle out on the character screen itself. It also hints strongly at Relic's other big change in Chaos Rising - a fundamentally new approach to how it creates missions.

This is another aspect where the team knew it had a weak point that needed addressing. "When we started hearing feedback about the Dawn of War II campaign being repetitive, the missions being repetitive... We just thought, okay, that's got to be one of the key things we try to improve," Lydell says.

'Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - Chaos Rising' Screenshot 3

To that end, while the length of the single-player campaign is quite respectable - "it's about the same length as the first Company of Heroes, around 15 hours" - the structure is quite different to DOW2. There are only 15 missions - significantly fewer - but each is more complex, boasting several key decision points (which often influence your Corruption score, depending on how you tackle them) and a host of sub-objectives which build to a climax. From Lydell's descriptions, it's a far cry from DOW2's somewhat-pedestrian structure of fighting through a dungeon and then beating a boss in every single level.

It's in this regard that the "expandalone" moniker seems more reasonable. You don't need a copy of the original Dawn of War II to play Chaos Rising, and owners of the two games will even be able to play against one another in multiplayer - but those who simply buy the "expansion" are unlikely to be disappointed given the enormous campaign being promised.

Moreover, Relic is considering those who come to the game fresh, without a DOW2 save from which to generate their Blood Raven squad. There'll be default settings which allow you to jump in with pre-generated characters, although Lydell does caution that the learning curve will be a touch steep for newcomers.

'Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - Chaos Rising' Screenshot 4

Of course, no expansion would be complete without some extra units to play with in multiplayer - yet on that front, Lydell remains tight-lipped. The Chaos race, of course, will be playable, and we know that the Space Marines are getting their hands on a new unit in the form of the Librarian, a caster class with a very unusual skill-set of customisable spells. As for the other units, Lydell is happy to let Warhammer 40,000 fans speculate away.

Less than a year on from the launch of Dawn of War II, the game still looks fantastic and is warmly liked by the strategy gaming contingent - and Relic seems determined to strike while the iron is hot, delivering a follow-up which goes well beyond what most gamers expect from an expansion, while not quite being a sequel in its own right either.

For Warhammer fans, the hook is obvious - the Blood Ravens go toe to toe with the Chaos forces on an unstable ice planet. For strategy fans, Relic promises a more compelling foe, a vastly improved campaign structure, more depth and exciting new units, all on top of what was already a great game.

Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - Chaos Rising is due out for PC next year.

Comments (41) Latest comment 2 years ago

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  • RandomTerrain #1 2 years ago

    Wow, this looks brilliant, I wonder if my laptop could handle it. I enjoyed the first game, and this looks much improved.
  • Schiraman #2 2 years ago

    Honestly I found DoW2 a big disappointment compared to original DoW, so what I'd like most from an expansion is a move back towards the game's roots (bigger battles with bigger armies, less RPG and more RTS, etc.). Doesn't sound this is what I'm looking for though :(
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/09 @ 08:29
  • Evolution #3 2 years ago

    @Schiraman

    Agreed, it worked with Company Of Heroes but I don't think it's right for Warhammer 40K.
  • systems #4 2 years ago

    @Evolution. I agree with your agreement with Schiraman.
  • disussedgenius #5 2 years ago

    The original was certainly weird - tonnes of promise at the beginning but got progressively more and more underwhelming as it went on. They just seemed to have blown their load in the first few missions.
  • Gregolution #6 2 years ago

    I looked forward to Dow 2 after playing the first for years but honestly it was utter rubbish, they ruined a great game.
  • Chaser #7 2 years ago

    What we need is a proper "Epic" scale W40K RTS...

    ps. and bring back Squats... *ahem*
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/09 @ 09:34
  • magicpanda #8 2 years ago

    I found the jump from DOW 1 to 2 quite odd and dislikeable as well. However I went back to it recently with an open mind and it's become one of my favourite games. I think it's better than the original.

    That said, a very large scale Warhammer game wouldn't go amiss. :) Give it to the Creative Assembly, the Total War guys.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/09 @ 09:38
  • anomagnus #9 2 years ago

    stop saying 'the' Chaos!!! Its simply Chaos

    @ evolution, schiraman and systems

    I couldn't disagree more with you. DOW 1 didnt fit at all with the 40K version of Space Marines. They're a strike force, of limited numbers. They don't set up bases, and take up entrenched positions, and no chapter, with the exception of the Black Templars could have taken the losses that the blood ravens would take over a campaign.

    This felt exactly right for 40K, a space marine strike force, small numbers, doing what they were supposed to do, over come huge odds.

    Personally, i love DOW2, it was exactly what i wanted. Nearly every member of my squad was a hero, which is what marines are, pre built, almost factory made heroes, rolling of the assembly line.

    I'll admit that it suffered from a narrative problem that the two biggest threats, the tyranids and orks don't have much story, you do need a strong opponent and narrative, and i hope thats what we'll get from chaos rising
  • Skurmedel #10 2 years ago

    There was Dark Omen, which well was not 40k but just Warhammer, but it was kinda fun, with the unit formations and what not.
  • UncleLou #11 2 years ago

    Finally more single-player stuff.

    Absolutely adored DoW 2's campaign (as opposed to DoW 1, which I thought was just plain boring in single-player), so this is a day one buy for me.
  • Evolution #12 2 years ago

    @anomagnus

    I do agree with you to some extent, Space Marines in comparison to other races have a lot less numbers and don't do the whole open battle thing as much (maybe the Eldar as well), but even a small game of the tabletop version would have you commanding more troops than DoW 2.

    I could have been fine perhaps if the missions weren't so dull, and the story so uninspiring. I am hoping this will be better, and it sounds like they are trying to improve it, but I can't help feeling it won't be different enough for my tastes though.
  • Eraysor #13 2 years ago

    DoW2 was pants compared to the originals. The fact you could only use four squads ended up making it horribly repetitive.
  • Seoh #14 2 years ago

    I loved both DoWI and II admitidly both very different beasts. I felt that II was more warhammerey tho as you actually had to tactically position your troops and think. In I it was too easy once you got up to high tier units.

    Very much looking forward to the expansion, with any luck if you get corrupted enough you can become a full fledged chaos marine.
  • Jockie #15 2 years ago

    Not a Warhammer person outside of PC gaming really, but I far preferred DOW II to its predecessor. I got bored of the Command & Conquer style RTS thing years ago, only Company of Heroes was really capable of making me enjoy those kinds of games again. I much prefer hybrid or tactical style RTS' to the old skool, build up a big army, drag a box over them and click on the enemy base style.

    For those of you after big battles, the 3vs3 multiplayer gets pretty spectacular as the games go on.
  • chudders #16 2 years ago

    I would have preferred a bit of variety in the campaigns with which race you play, I actually find Space Marines quite sterile and lacking in character and would rather mess about with Eldar, Orks or Tau. Similarly, I find Chaos to be the least interesting of the races not currenly included in DoW2's roster.

    I'm too old to be talking like this.
  • sneetch #17 2 years ago

    I completely agree with the too few troops comments, I personally would have been happy if they'd let me bring all my troops all the time. Which would have ended up with, what, 6 or so units? That's hardly too difficult to control?

    I never finished the first one, it just got a bit samey and lacked the tactical edge. You move up tac troops under cover of the devastators, move devastators under cover of tac troops, realise that simply moving all four troops as a blob works just as well due to the short range of your troops. Sigh. Play something else.

    I am hopeful about this, but not hugely hopeful, I do serve the Emperor (or possibly the EmpOROR, going by the voice work) but I'll be a bit wary this time.

    (it's an "expandalone", Lydell insists on saying repeatedly, despite my pointing out that he's in England now and we like to treat the language with respect)

    I unreservedly support this request.

    The Emperor protects.
  • Byzanite #18 2 years ago

    I think if you went into DOW2 with not having played DOW1 its a great game. First time I played it I was still well into DOW1's RTS style; base building, etc, and seeing it removed from DOW2 like that was a big dissapointment. But, having started playing a 2nd time some months later I can see that it is a good game, going into it with less thoughts of DOW1.
    Having said that it would be nice to see the RTS style back in a DOW 40k game :)
  • jonfon #19 2 years ago

    Agree with Evolution really. DoW2 didn't really feel like 40k at all to me (I played first edition for years when it came out). Any tabletop games I played you had a lot more units than the single player game had. I think I'd like a more Epic Warhammer 40k game really at this stage rather than more of that. (plus I really don't want to play as Marines yet again).

    And as a game the SP campaign was just dull. Play as the same bunch of marines all the way through (I always liked the weirder armies which generally came out in White Dwarf rather than the more normal ones) and the missions all seemed to be "Get to other end of map while hitting some objectives along the way and then beat up the boss". They were almost like dull MMO instance "dungeons" or something.

    Maybe I just outgrew Warhammer in general though, WAR didn't do a whole lot for me either really (I did like DOW 1 though). I'd still give a "design a big army and then fight an epic battle" game a go though, just as an attempt to recapture my youth :)
  • thesombrerokid #20 2 years ago

  • hiddenranbir #21 2 years ago

    Price for this expansion? The DOW expansions were rip offs.
  • BobsUncle #22 2 years ago

    I hope it's not full of bugs like the first one.
  • Rubarack #23 2 years ago

    One of the reasons I'm a fan of Relic is they don't release games with bad parts, not ones that would be relatively simple to fix. Tightening the narrative focus of DoW2 would take a whole new game (or ugh Expandalone) but it was as polished as you could reasonably expect.

    Unfortunately I'm not over-enamoured with this as a sequel idea. Yet another Space Marine campaign, this time fighting different coloured Space Marines. Something different would be much more appealing.
  • Gastrian #24 2 years ago

    Too few troops? Too unlike WH40K? Back in the good old days a devastator squad set you back easily between 400-500pts and considering most standard games were between 1500pts to 2000pts (3000pts was considered an all day affair) thats anything from a quarter to a third of your points gone in one unit.

    In a PROPER game of 40K you only had a handful of marines. 40K games seem bigger now purely because GW halved the points cost for the armies across the board so you'd need more troops and have to buy more models. Honestly in DOW1 you could go through half a chapter in a single battle and Space Marine commanders get chucked out of the chapter for losing less than a company (1/10th of a Chapter)
  • YourMessageHere #25 2 years ago

    I honestly cannot garner enthusiasm for DoW2 - I loved DoW, and the reduced scale was a huge turnoff to start with. Add to that the fact that I don't really go a bundle on Marines, Orks or Eldar, so aside of Dark Crusade, singleplayer was rather underwhelming and aggravatingly limited, and they made Tyranids MP only. On top of that, my favourite armies, Tau and Imperial Guard aren't in it. About the only thing going for it, really, was the lack of piss-annoying Chaos or Necron armies. Chaos are simply space marines with spiky bits by and large - yes, it fits the fiction, but purely from a gameplay perspective, they seem like a cheap respray job, rather than a distinct army.

    Never mind, eh? There's always the next expansion pack I suppose.

    Not sure there's a lot of point in trying to transfer the logic of tabletop WH40000 to DoW - it always was a different beast. DoW always traded on having large armies. I would like to have had a form of the original DoW that didn't do base-building and let you pre-build your army, just to get away from the RTS formula and maybe a little closer to tabletop, though.
  • stevetuck #26 2 years ago

    Burn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.
  • Rirekon #27 2 years ago

    Give me my Hive Tyrant character in Last Stand damnit!
  • sneetch #28 2 years ago

    @Gastrian
    Too few troops? Too unlike WH40K? Back in the good old days a devastator squad set you back easily between 400-500pts and considering most standard games were between 1500pts to 2000pts (3000pts was considered an all day affair) thats anything from a quarter to a third of your points gone in one unit.

    Yeah, but back in the good old days didn't a devastator squad have 10 marines? It wasn't that hard to have 4 squads (40 marines) and a medic, librarian, chaplain, commander and/or lieutenants. Maybe even a vehicle or two.

    Contrast that with DOW2 where you have about 10-12 marines including your commander.

    Sure they're different things but the first DOW seemed much more like the tabletop game to me.
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/09 @ 15:06
  • i_saw_dasein #29 2 years ago

    "Begging the question" doesn't mean "to raise a question". "Beg the question" is a specific logical fallacy where what is being asserted is not supported except by the statement itself. "He is unattractive because he is ugly" is an example of begging the question.

    "Respect the language" and all that right? :D
    Edited by 1 at 01/12/09 @ 15:12
  • Shinji #30 2 years ago

    Good point. In my defence, while I wrote the line about respecting the language, the "begging the question" bit was inserted by a cheeky sub-editor. I shall ask Tom to make sure that the scoundrel is whipped. :)
  • mull #31 2 years ago

    Loking forward to more SP content with this. The campaign in DoW2 really tailed off and had far too many repeated missions. This sounds like a much better balance.
  • Ryuken #32 2 years ago

    Good to see they know the faults of the vanilla DoW II campaign. It started off great but after day 20 or so there were almost nothing but the same filler missions. They weren't as bad as Dark Crusade's or Soulstorm's skirmish filler material but more variety should have been implemented.

    Really curious about the multiplayer additions, DoW II was the best RTS of the year because of its multiplayer, despite using both Steam and Live. Good thing that great gameplay always wins the day. Last Stand was pure brilliance as well, could have used a proper review on EG I reckon.
  • BigJonno #33 2 years ago

    @Chudders

    That just goes to show how badly the DoW games convey the 40k universe. Space Marines are far from lacking in character and are by far the most interesting "big guys with guns" in sci fi.

    That said, Games Workshop themselves have been doing their properties a disservice for at least a decade, so you can't blame the developers.
  • Zaiz #34 2 years ago

    I'd disagree that the Space Marines are the -best- guys with guns in Sci-fi, because there are a ton of choices. Gimme some IG any day, I'm more interested in a heroic IG squad than a heroic SM squad.

    On the subject of that, come on, Relic, don't you think the IG could use an appearance? Certainly, they'd be CoH-y, but there's nothing wrong with CoH.

    Oh, and THQ Complete pack yesterday had every Relic game since DoW for 50 bucks, plus a bunch of others. Roommate picked it up.
  • Davemanz #35 2 years ago

    Chaos is amazing. If you're into the universe but don't really know a lot about it, check out "Horus Rising" by Dan Abnett. It's amazing sci-fi and it details the rise of Chaos, which in the WH40k universe started about 10,000 years before this game is set. It's really entertaining.
  • Sunyavadin #36 2 years ago

    stop saying 'the' Chaos!!! Its simply Chaos

    Let the Rob write previews for the eurogamer in the style the he wants to.
    Edited by 1 at 02/12/09 @ 08:30
  • Shinji #37 2 years ago

    Jeff Lydell kept referring to them as "The Chaos", so I assumed that was the accepted term - I'm by no means enough of a 40k expert to start second guessing the game's producer...
  • Sunyavadin #38 2 years ago

    Good, prompt, and understandable explanation.
  • gmjapan #39 2 years ago

    Honestly DoW2 was dull tripe. That the campaign missions were repetitive should not have been any secret to them that they need to await feedback on! Developing 4 corner humping maps and having the interface ask you which one you fancy repeating this time should have had alarm bells ringing when it was first pooped out.

    They also really need to mix up the battle sizes, even just once... having to 'expose fog of war, shoot 5 enemies' ad infinitum is a rediculous design.

    There was alot of good things in DoW2, right down to the stories on the wargear but i cant see them improving the main weaknesses significantly to make an expandalonerpack worth picking up.
  • rexluger #40 2 years ago

    Looks good im looking forward to it

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  • craziii #41 2 years ago

    DOW2 got boring for me really fast. they need something different, less predictability and routine.

    I also wouldn't mind a total war style game on an expanded meta map base on DOW2's. I am salivating just thinking about it.