Paul Fox of Microsoft Europe

By Gestalt Published 3 May, 2002

Interview - we talk to Microsoft about the recent Xbox price cut and the console's future

While the long overdue arrival of the GameCube in Europe is the big news this week, the industry has also recently witnessed the rebirth of the Xbox, following a dramatic £100 price cut just six weeks after its relatively disappointing debut. European Xbox PR supremo Paul Fox wouldn't tell us how many Xboxes the company has sold in Europe so far, saying that "we typically don't provide sales breakdowns on a regional basis", but industry estimates suggest that less than 200,000 units were shifted in the console's first month on sale.

The Price Is Right

'Paul Fox of Microsoft Europe' Screenshot may05b

Halo - if you have an Xbox, you probably have a copy of this

Pricing was one of the biggest gripes that European gamers had about the console though, and thanks to Microsoft's decisive action that should no longer be an issue. Of course, the million dollar question is why was the European price set so high in the first place, when almost everybody was telling Microsoft that it needed to be cheaper to compete with the PlayStation 2.

"There were additional costs, such as shipping and taxes, that were reflected in the price", according to Paul, who believes that even at £300 the Xbox "represented tremendous value" at launch. "In head-to-head comparisons Xbox is clearly the choice for the best gaming experience, and advanced features such as the Nvidia graphics card, online readiness out of the box, and the in-built hard drive meant that €479/£299 was an extremely competitive price for Xbox to launch with."

"We priced Xbox to launch at the same price as other premium consoles that have launched in the past, in fact at a price comparable to PS2. This worked well in some European countries - there are many thousands of consumers who felt £299/€479 was great value - but in other countries we recognised that price was becoming a hurdle for some. The price change allows more people to enjoy the Xbox experience, and as part of our long term strategy to grow the installed base this is the right thing to do. As we've said in the past this is a marathon, not a sprint. We've made a substantial investment from a hardware standpoint for the long term, and we're already seeing the results of our effort in tremendous game quality and subsequent game sales. The attach rate for Xbox is the highest of any next generation game console in its launch period - a very positive indicator."

Premium Gaming

'Paul Fox of Microsoft Europe' Screenshot apr02b

Enclave - a European-developed Xbox actioneer due out later this year

Although the attach rate is certainly impressive, there has been some grumbling about the comparatively high price of Xbox games in Europe. "There's no change in pricing for games, our pricing represents fantastic value for the gamer", Paul insisted, before going off on a tangent about how great the Xbox's launch line-up was, something we wouldn't argue with.

But despite Paul's claim that the Xbox arrived on our shores with titles in "all of the key European genres", one thing was notably lacking from the launch line-up - a football game. The good news then is that April 26th saw not only a price cut, but also the arrival of Championship Manager and 2002 FIFA World Cup on the Xbox. It's been described by many commentators, ourselves included, as a second launch for the console, but Paul didn't see it that way. "This is not so much a second launch as the shape of things to come. We have an incredibly strong line-up of games which will keep gamers excited and interested in the gameplay that is only possible to achieve with the Xbox."

"Microsoft has a long history of providing great products that address Europeans' specific needs - we have Europeans running the European subsidiaries and making the critical decisions in Europe. Many of our publishing and development partners - like Peter Molyneux's Lionhead Studios, Infogrames and Codemasters - are based in Europe, and we think Xbox will again demonstrate our commitment to giving European gamers better games than they've seen on any other console to date."

Free For All

'Paul Fox of Microsoft Europe' Screenshot 04b

Rallisport Challenge - the real jewel in the Xbox's crown, it should be the first game on your list if you're claiming your free games and don't already have a copy

Punters who had already bought an Xbox at £299 were no doubt feeling a bit miffed about seeing the console's price plummet by a third just a few weeks after it launched. Luckily then Microsoft are offering to give anyone who bought an Xbox at the higher price a free controller and a couple of games. The catch is that the list of games from which you can choose only includes first party titles.

"This offer is for first party games only", Paul admitted. "But with such a strong line-up of games for people to choose from, we're sure that everyone will be happy. Titles such as Halo, Dead Or Alive 3, Munch's Oddysee, Amped and Project Gotham Racing offer the best in videogaming experience."

While there are certainly some gems amongst the first party launch line-up, the high attach rate means that many Xbox owners already have some or all of the best titles. Microsoft have added a couple of new games to the deal since the provisional list was first posted, but from what we've heard neither Azurik nor NBA Inside Drive is exactly a must-have title, and it would have been nice to see a few of the better third party games included in the offer. Still, if you bought an Xbox at launch and haven't got the likes of Rallisport and Project Gotham yet, this is a great way to expand your game collection.

The Future

'Paul Fox of Microsoft Europe' Screenshot feb02b

Championship Manager - not exactly pushing the hardware to its limits, but it's one of the most popular Xbox games in Europe at the moment

The good news for Microsoft is that the price cut may have given the Xbox a second lease of life in Europe. The latest UK sales report shows Halo leaping 13 places up the all formats chart to number five, just short of where it debuted back in mid-March, while the newly released Xbox versions of 2002 FIFA World Cup and Championship Manager have also performed strongly.

The real crunch will come at Christmas though, as all three consoles - PS2, GameCube and Xbox - go head to head in Europe for the first time. "Christmas is obviously a crucial selling time for the whole industry and we are really looking forward to our first one in Europe. This is a really important time for us, and we believe we will have the software to make this Christmas very special - we will be announcing more games very soon."

Something else we can expect an announcement on soon is the Xbox's much vaunted online support. Paul confirmed that "we will be making some announcements at E3 about our online plans", but the real question is how soon those plans will extend to Europe, where broadband take-up has traditionally lagged behind. Unfortunately all we could get out of Paul was a recognition of the problem. "We totally recognise that the online infrastructure varies around the world, but also know that broadband is currently the only technology that will successfully deliver a quality online gaming experience". So in the meantime all we can do is "stay tuned for further European announcements".

Conclusion

It's certainly been a dramatic debut for Microsoft's console in Europe, but with a more reasonable price point, a rapidly growing software catalogue, and promising exclusives such as Deathrow, Enclave, Midtown Madness 3 and Unreal Championship in the pipeline, the Xbox's future on this side of the pond is looking rosier than it was just a few weeks ago. "Feedback [to the price cut] has been incredibly positive across the board", according to Paul, who is confident that "this is absolutely the right decision and benefits the whole industry, not just the gamers".

Obviously the gamers are the big winners though, as Europeans now have a choice of three next-gen consoles, all of them costing under £200 / €300, and all of them with a great line-up of software on the horizon. Cue chorus of "you've never had it so good".

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About Gestalt

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Comments (120) Latest comment 10 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Super Stu #1 10 years ago

    "Microsoft has a long history of providing great products that address Europeans' specific needs"

    Bollocks. If they'd done half an ounce of research, they would have seen that £300 was too high a price. Yeah, the PS2 launched at £300, but the present market doesn't support this price. Nintendo got it right, why didn't MS?

    "Many of our publishing and development partners - like Peter Molyneux's Lionhead Studios, Infogrames and Codemasters - are based in Europe, and we think Xbox will again demonstrate our commitment to giving European gamers better games than they've seen on any other console to date"

    So why is it that games developed in Europe get NTSC releases first and are optimised for NTSC from the ground up? GTA3, anyone?

  • otto #2 10 years ago

    "There were additional costs, such as shipping and taxes, that were reflected in the price", according to Paul

    For the nth time, what, shipping from Hungary?? Cube & PS2 ship from the Far East you plonker! And *what* bleeding taxes? VAT? That's 21% TOPS you muppet!!

    God when *will* they learn to stop making these ridiculous excuses!

  • ssuellid #3 10 years ago

    It was cheaper to buy a Jap XBox with a game and pay for shipping and import taxes than it was to buy an XBox in Europe. But the lying bastard can hardly admit that the were ripping us off.

  • miffo #4 10 years ago

    seems like the majority of posters on eurogamer are in love with nintendo.

  • Nemesis #5 10 years ago

    For those of you that did pay the £300, trade in two first party titles at GAME and use that as a nice downpayment on the Cube.

    Then claim the games back again.

  • Super Stu #6 10 years ago

    [miffo] - 03-May-2002
    seems like the majority of posters on eurogamer are in love with nintendo.


    From a price perspective, yes. From a "not taking the piss" perspective, yes.

  • ssuellid #7 10 years ago

    "seems like the majority of posters on eurogamer are in love with nintendo." it all depends on how long we have to wait for PAL conversions, how good the conversions are and which titles they can be bothered to convert.

  • Whizzo #8 10 years ago

    I wish Microsoft would just admit they were wrong about the pricing. The true test of someone's character is when they come clean when they make a mistake.

    Anyway Sony it's your move now..

  • mentat #9 10 years ago

    Gosh, did i actually interpret that interview in such a way that Microsoft almost admitted they flamingo'd up?
    Blimey.
    Have to say though, it worked on me - i bought a 'box last weekend...

  • Nemesis #10 10 years ago

    Mentat you bad boy. Green stained lips now mate!

  • mentat #11 10 years ago

    I know.
    But to redeem myself, i still have a dc (and still play it) a ps2, a slightly old and getting a bit knackered pc, and was looking longingly at a GC this lunchtime, so at least i can't be called a Fanboy!

  • Nemesis #12 10 years ago

    ;-)

    I have a beast PC to play MOHAA, Xbox and [today] the GC. I traded in the PS2 for the Xbox and don't really miss it. Bit sad I didn't get to play Ico, but that's the price you pay.

    Of the 'box games, Rallisport, Halo and Amped are the ones I'm enjoying most. Awaiting Morrowind and SW : Knights on the 'box and anything 1st party on the Cube!

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #13 10 years ago

    In fairness, I doubt it's Foxy's decision to excuse the original price in this way. His orders almost undoubtedly come from higher up the chain. I've not met him personally, but like Seamus Blackley, Jay Allard and quite a lot of the other public Xbox figures, I understand he's actually a thoroughly nice bloke...

  • skalmanxl #14 10 years ago

    We have an incredibly strong line-up of games which will keep gamers excited and interested in the gameplay that is only possible to achieve with the Xbox

    Sure, keep repeating yourself that and you might actually belive in it yourself.

  • mentat #15 10 years ago

    i bought the 'box with Halo and Rallisport.
    Not sure about PGR and JSRF cos i have MSR and JSR on DC.
    Like Halo, good fun no-brainer type game to blast on when you get home from work. Still trying to get the hang of Rallisport, made tricky by the fact i've been playing GT3 constantly over the last few weeks.
    Might look into getting a cube in a couple of months maybe, depends on what games come out for it.

  • Super Stu #16 10 years ago

    Just a shame, then, who they have (or had) holding their leash.

  • Nemesis #17 10 years ago

    I'm prepared to give M$ some slack, because they saw an issue, acted and offered some form of rebate to early adopters.

    Lets just hope they release the S-type controllers over here pretty soon. As a debut into the console market, they've got a good system, they've listened to developers, they've got the right goods in the box, the 1st gen games are pretty spot-on.

    Alas, the packaging on the controllers suck.

  • ssuellid #18 10 years ago

    [mentat] - I have MSR as well but PGR is different enough to get as well. Its quite a bit quicker but its seems a lot easier. Another good reason to get PGR is that you have the gaming advantage over any PGR owner who does not have MSR.

  • Tricky #19 10 years ago

    Super Stu,

    I agree that the price was too high for the X Box initially but to compare it to the Cube isn't really fair. The Cube doesn't play DVDs, doesn't have a built-in hard drive and doesn't have built-in Ethernet capability. Now yes, you're gonna say that you can't use the ethernet capability right now but it will happen. The DVD playback and the hard disk easily account for a vast amount of the "added value" of the X Box.

    That said it was unrealistic of Microsoft to expect us to swallow a £300 price point in the current market. I don't really care anyway - getting my Cube in 2 hours. Wheeee!

  • Rowley #20 10 years ago

    Does anyone here think that either the GC or XB will be able to give the ps2 a run for its money by christmas?
    I imagine the GC will manage shift quite a few boxes to to the under 12 demographic alone, and the PS2 will probably come down in price to further extend its installed user base. I can't quite see where the x-box fits in right now though...

  • Nemesis #21 10 years ago

    I dunno FeZZ, it feels good for some games, but not for others. THPS it's a nightmare to use, it just feels too bulky.

  • Blerk #22 10 years ago

    Does anyone here think that either the GC or XB will be able to give the ps2 a run for its money by christmas?

    No. I'm sure the GC will sell loads, but I don't think anyone will be able to catch the PS2 now. Not sure about the Xbox.. I think we'll have to wait and see on that one (in Europe at least).

  • mentat #23 10 years ago

    ssuellid - To be honest i wasn't overly enamoured (SP?) with MSR. It used to annoy me because it would penalise you when you were in front and the people behind would come steaming up to hit you so that they wouldn't have to brake. That drove me mad, so i got fed up with it. Does PGR do the same thing?

  • ssuellid #24 10 years ago

    Sony seem to have cracked the mainstream market with the PS2 and I doubt that the GC or XBox will even come close in hardware sales. A lot of PS2 owners I know are not traditional gamers or even casual gamers. I think that both MS and Nintendo will sell more titles per console than Sony can ever hope to do with the PS2.

    The AI in PGR is a lot better than MSR and the computer cars seem to actually drive around rather than just ramming you.
    Edited by 2 at 03/05/02 @ 15:12

  • Nemesis #25 10 years ago

    The PS2 is way ahead now and I doubt anyone will catch it.

    Xbox and Nintendo will probably share an equal second place with an equal selection of AAA exclusive titles to keep the punters happy. I think the market is big enough now to support all three systems, with the ensuing price war, you may see people having two systems.

  • mentat #26 10 years ago

    Well if it's better, i might rent PGR out to try, cos i did like the concept of MSR.
    As for rallisport, jaa, what do you mean by rattling?
    The rumble pack rumbles...

  • v3rtigo #27 10 years ago

    I just bought an Xbox after the price drop (and after shaking off my residual prejudices about Microsoft) - I've had an American/Jap Gamecube since November last year, and I can't say I've touched it for the past few months. It seems to be suffering an N64 drought of original AAA titles, just a lot of ports of mediocre PS2 games.
    I'll have to hang on for Starfox and Mario (A bloody long wait it's been).
    I am glued to the Xbox, however, and am enamoured with Halo and JSRF - it's a damn ugly beast but I'm becoming quite attached.

  • bluegnu #28 10 years ago

    Poor old M$ - damned if they do, damned if they don't. They should get credit for the rewarding of early adopters and the subsequent prompt response. I posted the reply form on tuesday and got my games and controller yesterday (thurs). Anyone remember Sony's lacklustre response to initial PS2 hardware failures?
    Edited by 1 at 03/05/02 @ 15:36

  • Nemesis #29 10 years ago

    Don't get any strange rattles with my controller Jaa, soz mate.

  • mentat #30 10 years ago

    Jaa, it might just be the rumble pack. I too only have one controller, but i haven't noticed it. I'll make sure to take note over the weekend. Course it might all be down to the car you drive and how you drive it. I know in GT3 the rumble pack rumbles all the time for some cars, but not others.

  • otto #31 10 years ago

    "my controller (I have just one, for the moment) does a terrible rattling noise almost all the time"

    Ah that'll be the shoddy MS workmanship ;)

    (don't flame me, I'm just kidding, I'm using a very nicely put together MS branded mouse & keyboard at this very moment!)

  • otto #32 10 years ago

    heh, er no, I'm quite happy with my beige MS-flavour PC for the moment ta

  • bystander #33 10 years ago

    I agree that the price was too high for the X Box initially but to compare it to the Cube isn't really fair. The Cube doesn't play DVDs, doesn't have a built-in hard drive and doesn't have built-in Ethernet capability. Now yes, you're gonna say that you can't use the ethernet capability right now but it will happen. The DVD playback and the hard disk easily account for a vast amount of the "added value" of the X Box.

    Just to add that as far as I recall, the Xbox doesn't play DVDs out of the box. You still have the buy the DVD playback kit (the remote control and memory card) to enable DVD playback. That'll add another £20-£30 to the price.

  • Max Diablos #34 10 years ago

    "we typically don't provide sales breakdowns on a regional basis"

    Then what was that bruhaha a few weeks ago? Customers deserve to know what the figures are so they can avoid putting their money into a failing product.

  • skalmanxl #35 10 years ago

    Alas, the packaging on the controllers suck.

    Agreed, one shouldn't have to cut oneself trying to open the thing without a protective suit and a huge pair of clippers.

    The controller-s is needed, not everyone is comfortable with the default one. I'd actually like to see a overhaul of the existing controller too, the diamond is just horrible.

    we typically don't provide sales breakdowns on a regional basis

    Didn't they give out this when they bragged about the sales in the US, and to a lesser extent in Japan?

  • Gestalt #36 10 years ago

    "Didn't they give out this when they bragged about the sales in the US"

    Yes. Obviously that was .. *cough* .. atypical though. ;)

  • bystander #37 10 years ago

    "Just to add that as far as I recall, the Xbox doesn't play DVDs out of the box"

    Fair enough. But the GC doesnt allow for virtually unlimited game saves out of the box. And no I dont feel like doing the math to see how much that would add to the GCs price ;)..

    Bah! I don't need a memory card, the current launch games are short enough to complete in one sitting ;).

    That aside, what happens if your hard disk breaks down? :p ;).

  • skalmanxl #38 10 years ago

    I expect the cube will go the same way as the N64 judging by what I see happening here in the US.

    That's actually a good thing, since the N64 was a success, specially in the US and sold well over 40 million units as far as I know.

  • LaundroMat #39 10 years ago

    Adrian, you again. Would you please mind telling us what important game developer you are working at? This way, we can judge whether Nintendo should really be scared, or whether you're just bragging and just don't like Nintendo.

    Edit: Obviously, you've been studying the market for longer than anyone here already. Proof: "most of its big [titles] aimed almost squarely at the younger market or Japanese market."

    Gnnh.

    (TBH, I fear it's just you and your personal dislike, 's all.)
    Edited by 1 at 03/05/02 @ 18:05

  • Sucram #40 10 years ago

    From what I've heard from developers they tend to prefer the XBox since it opens up far more possilities than other consoles rather than any particular allegiance to a company. Microsoft seem to be fairly geared up in term of providing developers with what they need, one of Nintendo's historic failings.

    Apart from it's weight I personally find the XBox to be far more conveniant to the DVD, CD playing/ MP3 ripping. I can't be bothered with memory cards most of the time. Then againg I praise Nintendos focus on making a very nice economic console however Nintendo have allways dismissed Europe, far more than Microsoft.

    As for taxes, consoles will be more expensive than in Europe but not to the extent MS and others may have you believe.



  • Max Diablos #41 10 years ago

    We certainly won't be developing for it unless publishers show more interest.

    You should have a seat on the board with that depth of strategic thinking. ;)

  • skalmanxl #42 10 years ago

    Being the webdetective I am...our friend Adrian work for Lightspeed games. For being a game company, their website sure is the worst one I've ever seen in the biz. I hope the guy who did that site is fired.

    Besides, half the team seems to come from Iceland judging by some of the names.

  • mal #43 10 years ago

    I wish XBox fans would stop going on about the hard disc. It's like those that go on about how many bits their processor is, or how much RAM it's got, except a hard disc is even less likely to make a significant difference. For me the hard disc means I can save ~20 quid on a memory card. On the other hand, it makes the console more expensive (though that's largely been rectified), heavier, more fragile and more likely to break down over time.

    The hard disc makes hacking the Xbox better, but I don't do that sort of thing and besides, you could build a smaller better looking PC quite easily.

    I'm not knocking the Xbox - it has some great fun, wonderful looking games on it and more in the works, and the ethernet port is a real bonus, but until I start seeing some games that just couldn't have been made without the hard disc it won't be a selling point for me.

  • otto #44 10 years ago

    Why is it that every American that comes to this site has to slag off the Cube? I really don't see what they've got to be so aggressive about. Are there any Americans out there who *don't* hate the Cube? There must be some, it seems to be selling OK over there. I'm sure I wouldn't be half so negatively disposed towards the xbox if it weren't for the legions of so-called fans who pile in on these boards detracting the other two consoles. Can't the xbox sell itself on its own merits? Why keep going on and on and ON about the apparent deficiencies of the competition (apparent only to yourselves it seems)?

  • Nobby #45 10 years ago

    Having just bought a new computer with Windows XP on it, I have decided to never buy a M$ product again. Ever.

  • roodevleck #46 10 years ago

    "Having just bought a new computer with Windows XP on it, I have decided to never buy a M$ product again. Ever."

    Is it really all that bad? I've been using it for a couple of months now and have had no major problems. Well, apart from 3dsmax crashing horribly.

  • otto #47 10 years ago

    Well it's good just to hear the other side of the story - I sometimes feel a bit guilty for the rough ride we give the Yanks here sometimes and it does us all good to hear from the 'normal' ones (i.e. the intelligent and thoughtful ones) so don't feel shy about posting, I guess others would agree with me.

  • Khab #48 10 years ago

    Yay! A normal-like US person. Finally.

    Regarding the article:
    the in-built hard drive

    Seriously, I'm having an english test tomorrow, and this kind of writing doesn't do me ANY good. 'k, Gestalt? ;)

  • Whizzo #49 10 years ago

    In-built is perfectly valid although most people would use built-in, oh the joys of the English language!

  • Moonbender #50 10 years ago

    I'm afraid "in-built" is quite valid English. :) And on a sidenote, you're writing tests on Saturdays? What a cruel country.

    No! Damn you, Whizzo! Arrr.
    Edited by 1 at 03/05/02 @ 23:03

  • Whizzo #51 10 years ago

    Beware my fast typing skills!

  • Moonbender #52 10 years ago

    Prove it!

  • Khab #53 10 years ago

    Is it now? I'm just going to have to use it tomorrow, then.
    Oh, and if you think that having a test on a saturday is cruel, ask me WHEN the test is...

  • Whizzo #54 10 years ago

    Prove it!
    Hmm only 31WPM which is a bit slow for me, didn't help I missed a couple of commas which it marked me down on.

    When's the test Khab?

  • Khab #55 10 years ago

    At 8 A.M. On a saturday. No matter what you might think of it, it's standard practice amongst Swedish universites... for some "#%!#"¤&"!#/&!!!! reason...

  • Whizzo #56 10 years ago

    That's a bit much! Jeez off to bed with you now! ;-)

  • Moonbender #57 10 years ago

    So, in about seven hours. You poor thing. ;)

  • Khab #58 10 years ago

    Yeah, I KNOW. I'm going now.. don't worry - I have a few Red Bull's in my fridge for emergencies like these... :)

    nite.

  • Moonbender #59 10 years ago

    Nothing like a can of strong coffee. Hits you like club. :) Good luck, incidently.

  • Jesus: Action Figure #60 10 years ago

    "I wish XBox fans would stop going on about the hard disc. It's like those that go on about how many bits their processor is, or how much RAM it's got, except a hard disc is even less likely to make a significant difference. For me the hard disc means I can save ~20 quid on a memory card."

    Wrong. While the hard disc hasn't been exploited fully yet, it has the potential to really make a difference to console gaming.

    One example is Championship Manager on the Xbox. Wouldn't it make more sense to make the game for PS2 because of its installed base? Of course it would. The reason it's on Xbox is because of the hard disc.

    Not my cup of tea, mind, but it's a real world example of the advantage of having a hard drive. I'm sure we'll see more games that fully exploit the drive at E3.

    "In fairness, I doubt it's Foxy's decision to excuse the original price in this way. His orders almost undoubtedly come from higher up the chain. I've not met him personally, but like Seamus Blackley, Jay Allard and quite a lot of the other public Xbox figures, I understand he's actually a thoroughly nice bloke..."

    He IS a thoroughly nice bloke.One of the nicest you could possibly hope to know.

  • landore #61 10 years ago

    Microsoft totally ignored europe, they didn't bother to show up at ects nor did they bother releasing the xbox before christmas, saying that neither did Nintendo, and I can see them both pay the price for not bothering to think about europe at all. All they care about is Microsoft = USA, Nintendo = Japan.
    No parent is going to spend money on any of these consoles for their children unless its a very very special birthday present. We will see at christmas who will be there winner from the three companies.
    Also Summer is the worst time of all in the games industry always have been always will be, people actually go out! in the summer and dont stay in to play consoles. I seriously wonder sometimes who are the brains behind these company decisions.

  • Gestalt #62 10 years ago

    "Prove it!"

    A measly 69 WPM, but it's 7am - I'm sure I'll get faster (and more accurate) as the day goes on. ;)

  • otto #63 10 years ago

    Damn - only 46! And I thought I r00led the typing world! Well I haven't had my cup of tea yet so I'll have another go later...

    Edit - Khab will be forty minutes into his test now - that has to qualify as mental cruelty, someone should take Sweden to the International Court of Human Rights...
    Edited by 1 at 04/05/02 @ 07:33

  • ProjectRadeon #64 10 years ago

    Bought an Xbox had it for sometime now.
    I've noticed everyone having ago at the quality of games for the XBOX launch, what planet are they on???? Obivously not this one.

    Project Gotham is great fun, Ralli sport is one of the finest games out there. And Burnout on the Xbox just trounces the Cubes version.

    This is not just a slanted view, I bought a Jap cube on import, sold that then got a UK one. The launch titles are appauling. Wave Racer (What????? I saw it get 9/10 in one magazine) I'll never know why!!! The only game I keep playing on is the fantastic Monkey ball. Would like a look at blood Roar as well though.

    Whats all this about the Xbox been a PC. Hol on a mo..... Sony are bringing out a hard drive and broadband adaptor. Oh yerh Xbox have them as standard all for your 199 pounds. Dont have to fork out for a memory card as well!! And at least you can watch DVDs on you Xbox PS2's is appauling Quailty!!!

    Speaking of quality who made the plastic bulk of the cube. Its so thin and fragile, both my jap one and UK had minor scatches on (they were brand new).

    Xbox might be slighty bigger but at least is made well!!!

    Just to recap here:
    Xbox:
    Better games!!!! (open to debate true)
    Hard Drive
    DVD
    BroadBand
    and only 60 pounds more.

    Well lets hope nintendo fall flat on there arses. Now where did I put that quality N64 (sure right Huhhhh!) LOL.

  • brokenkey #65 10 years ago

    I've said it before and I'll say it again:
    An Ethernet port is not Broadband. I've got broadband on this computer: it works via a USB modem. So, does having a USB port on your computer = having broadband? Or even support for broadband? No. It does not.
    Cube has a port on the bottom for "high speed connecter" or somthing like that. So why do you suppose Xbox has any more support for broadband than the Cube?

    People, you have to stop beliving everything they tell you in press releases. Sega promised us "up to 5 billion players" online when Dreamcast launched. They didn't deliver. Can MS bring cable or DSL to your house? A DSL connection in the UK will cost you anything up to £150 +monthly subscription. That includes activation and the cost of the modem.

    DVD remote for xbox is £30? So two of the "built in features" of xbox will cost you another £180 to actually get them working.

    Judge the consoles on what they can offer you today, or what games they should bring along tomorrow. Don't base your judgements on the promises of hardware support to come - there is a strong chance it won't come at all.
    Edited by 1 at 04/05/02 @ 11:20

  • Khab #66 10 years ago

    otto wrote: Khab will be forty minutes into his test now - that has to qualify as mental cruelty, someone should take Sweden to the International Court of Human Rights...

    Please do! It went fairly well, I think, but it's not fun to get up at 8 am on ANY day, let alone a saturday... bleh.

  • bystander #67 10 years ago

    As I said in the other thread, the Xbox does not come with DVD playback as standard you still have to pay another £30 or so for it.

    Plus as skalmanxl said as well, you still need a cable modem to use broadband, which is an additional expense. Plus the network as of yet is not up. Goodness knows how MS plan to support it in the UK, where about 120,000 people have broadband (the figure is set to triple over the next year but that still is not very many).

    Edit: Damn brokenkey you beat me to it!
    Edited by 1 at 04/05/02 @ 11:23

  • brokenkey #68 10 years ago

    "Edit: Damn brokenkey you beat me to it!"

    Well it's obviously a good point then!

  • Khab #69 10 years ago

    Just to recap here:
    Xbox:
    Better games!!!! (open to debate true)
    Hard Drive
    DVD
    BroadBand
    and only 60 pounds more.

    Er... in order:
    Games: As you said... it's all a matter of taste.
    Hard drive: Yes.
    DVD: No. You'll have to cough up for that to work. True, you actually CAN use it as a DVD player, but out of the box the XBox is about as good use playing DVD's as the GC is... The PS2 surely would win that point. Besides, which home entertainment interrested person *doesn't* own at least one DVD player nowadays? I have two...:)
    Broadband: Nope. You'll need a service for that to work, which will cost money - if one isn't interested in paying for things one doesn't know if they'll be of any use, ever, this would be a negative - in my book. The GC has ethernet capability - you'll need an add-on for that, though. They leave the choice to YOU.

    "Only" 60 pounds more. Yeah. An ethernet adapter costs what, 15 quid? Tops. (You'll get one for 20€ around here, easily.) The fabled 8-gig HD? Well, they don't make drives that small anymore, but I'd say around £40-50, no? Tops. Of course, equal parts for the GC will probably cost more than an ordinary, but I'm just saying that this "GREAT value for the money" doesn't say much.
    The best reason for buying the XBox (or ANY console) is if you like the games. It's a simple two-step check:

    *Like 'em? Buy it!
    *Don't like 'em? Don't buy it!

    All you need...

    Edit: Um, why am I making exactly the same point as two people have before me? Sorry, must be these early-morning english tests...
    Edited by 1 at 04/05/02 @ 11:38

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #70 10 years ago

    "And Burnout on the Xbox just trounces the Cubes version."

    Nobody here likes it except me, so you're onto a loser with that one!

  • mal #71 10 years ago

    An Ethernet port is not Broadband. I've got broadband on this computer: it works via a USB modem. So, does having a USB port on your computer = having broadband? Or even support for broadband? No. It does not.

    It does, but only because broadband is a made up word that doesn't mean anything. My computer has a 'broadband' SCSI bus and a 'broadband' parallel port.

    On the other hand, an Ethernet port is closer to a network connection than a USB port is. It will have packet based handshaking and contention implemented in hardware. Of course you need to hook it up to the wider net still and write a stack to run TCP/IP over it, but in my opinion it's still one step closer to an Internet connection than a simple serial link like USB is.

    Anyway, on a less combatitive note for a Saturday morning, Jesus:AF you are my saviour. I'd completely forgotten about Champ Manager - it might not sell the console to me, but some people must like the damn game!

  • brokenkey #72 10 years ago

    Mal, you are kind of missing my point - having any range of ports on the back of whatever box you are playing games on does not mean you have broadband, or even to a very large degree support for broadband. Broadband support is either a DSL or cable modem, and the way that plugs into your box, either via USB or ethernet, is neither here nor there.

    Broadband = modem and connection.
    Ethernet port = ethernet port.

  • Gestalt #73 10 years ago

    "Nobody here likes it except me"

    I thought Burnout was quite fun, but it's no Rallisport.

  • otto #74 10 years ago

    God spot the rainy Saturday morning. Why aren't you lot all playing with your Cubes? Come to think of it, why aren't I??

  • rauper Verified Managing Director, Eurogamer Network #75 10 years ago

    "The fabled 8-gig HD? Well, they don't make drives that small anymore"

    True, my PS2 hard drive is 40Gb I think...

  • rauper Verified Managing Director, Eurogamer Network #76 10 years ago

    Or is it 20... Can't remember!

  • skalmanxl #77 10 years ago

    40!

    You already have one roop, bloody bastard.
    Edited by 1 at 04/05/02 @ 13:56

  • skalmanxl #78 10 years ago

    I thought Burnout was quite fun, but it's no Rallisport.

    There is no other like Rallisport. Although, latley I've been swearing in front of Project Gotham Racing and F1 2002 (as opposed to swaring in front of Rallisport), for totally diffrent reasons...

    Why aren't you lot all playing with your Cubes?

    Put a sock in it tie-wearer.
    Edited by 2 at 04/05/02 @ 13:59

  • Gestalt #79 10 years ago

    "F1 2002"

    Do not mention that game in my presence! ;)

  • Max Diablos #80 10 years ago

    It does, but only because broadband is a made up word that doesn't mean anything. My computer has a 'broadband' SCSI bus and a 'broadband' parallel port.

    I have a broadband mouth!

  • skalmanxl #81 10 years ago

    Do not mention that game in my presence! ;)

    From the way the sounds...sound in that game, it seems like this guy made the sounds. Is it just me or does ALL the recent EA games have just awful awful sound. I have NBA 2002 and that sure sounded horrible, NHL 2002 wasn't much better and F1 2002...ugh.

    Not to mention the AWFUL (!!!!!) framerate, how this game could have shipped is beyond me. The damage isn't quite realistic either. Although it isn't a simulator, I expect to NOT be able to bump off Jaguards, Minardis (and other pieces of slow awful crap on a circuit) without getting a dent in the car myself.

  • Gestalt #82 10 years ago

    Did you clear the damage test? You need to do that before bits of your car can fall off, and there's various levels of damage that you can set as well IIRC. Certainly I've lost my nose a few times even on the lower damage settings, but only by punting the car into a barrier.

    Not really my kind of game. Arcade mode was quite fun, but not very challenging. The sim mode was a completely different game, felt and handled nothing like the normal mode and didn't suit my driving style at all. And as you said, the slowdown was atrocious. I wouldn't mind, but the game didn't even look half as good as the screenshots EA were putting out before it was released, so god knows what framerate they were running it at...

  • skalmanxl #83 10 years ago

    Did you clear the damage test? You need to do that before bits of your car can fall off, and there's various levels of damage that you can set as well IIRC. Certainly I've lost my nose a few times even on the lower damage settings, but only by punting the car into a barrier.

    I got an 85 on that one, so stuff fly off, not very realistic though. I'm better off waiting for Geoff Crammond GP 4 to satisfy my realism needs. Let's hope the people doesn't buy the game (or the ports) and lets have EA stop making driving games all together,

  • Nobby #84 10 years ago

    "Is it really all that bad?"

    So far I've downloaded no less than 15 patches to get various programs and the OS itself to work. Add to that the fact that despite using the same modem and ISP, my speed has more than halved, I am not happy.

  • Max Diablos #85 10 years ago

    Ninety-nine red balloons.

  • Ciaran #86 10 years ago

    Auf ihrem Weg zum Horizont...

  • Khab #87 10 years ago

    So far I've downloaded no less than 15 patches to get various programs and the OS itself to work. Add to that the fact that despite using the same modem and ISP, my speed has more than halved, I am not happy.

    It's weird how many different results people have gotten with WinXP... I myself LOVE it. My comp has crashed a grand total of two (2) times since I purchased it in early January.
    I shudder at the sight of 98 and its like nowadays. That said, I imagine Win2k might be even better.

    Maybe they should have named it the XPox instead, to get some BNR across formats...
    Edited by 1 at 05/05/02 @ 02:41

  • bystander #88 10 years ago

    XP is fairly good I thought. Its crashed only once over the last few months, and that was when I was trying to install the damn thing...

  • oldtimer #89 10 years ago

    Personally I think its really sad to see people continually slagging off the xbox because of some misplaced alliegence to sony, when i bought my ps2 for £270 weeks before the price dropped I just wrote it off, same sort of story with my N64, so MS giving me compensation i think is pretty fantastic. and an even better story comes when i bought my import jap psx for £500 quid only to find out a year later that my batch had a faulty disc drive woo-hoo. The funny thing is when did sony stop being the console bad guys? Doesn't anyone see the ps2 for what it is? Since I bought my big ass box i havent touched my ps2 for games, I use it now as a bedroom dvd player, mgs2 is without doubt one of the dullest games ive ever played yet in reviews it gets high scores, the fact it is 80% (generous) cut-scenes is neither here nor there, its like Barry norman reviewing Tetris, i'm not here to bash any console but the standard of ps2 software is appalling. Gamecube cant really be put into the same category as ps2 or Xbox because it has totally no facility for playing dvd's (unlike xbox) I hate the fact that every few years I have to hear the same crap: my NES beats your master system, my atari beats your amiga, my megadrive beats your snes, most of the people on this board seem old enough to drink at least (a few obvious exeptions) get over it, if like me you can afford it then buy them all, but if not enjoy what you have because the prospect of only having one hardware manufacturer in the market means very very bad things ahead.

    plus...




    X-BOX RULZ PS2 BLOWS (sic)

  • brokenkey #90 10 years ago

    "Gamecube cant really be put into the same category as ps2 or Xbox because it has totally no facility for playing dvd's"

    This would be a good and valid point if we were comparing the merits of DVD players. But wait, isn't this a games site, and aren't we deciding the merits of GAMES consoles? The benefits of a console of playing DVDs are non existent if 1) you already own a DVD player, or 2) you don't own any dvds, or 3) you own a 14inch TV.

  • skalmanxl #91 10 years ago

    I don't understand why we don't get a price cut in North America where we've been loyal to the xbox.

    Because the Xbox costed 200$ MORE when it launched in Europe then it did in the US. NOW the console costs just as much (give or take some) in both territories, which is fair. You guys had it "cheap" all the time, so you don't actually deserve a reduction.

  • oldtimer #92 10 years ago

    I wonder whats going to happen to the cube when rare go multi-format?

  • brokenkey #93 10 years ago

    "I don't understand why we don't get a price cut in North America where we've been loyal to the xbox"

    Disloyalty has its rewards. Or to put it another way, this is market forces at work. If everyone stops buying it, the price will come down. I'd day that this is a good excuse for an American consumer campaign to boycott the xbox until the price comes down to $199. Go on - do it.

  • terminalterror #94 10 years ago

    With the xbox broadband, how would you get it to work if you already have ADSL, do you have to get your ISP to let you use an Xbox, or will it just work (just curious, I don't have an Xbox, just a GC, but depending on how they pull off their broadband I might get one)

  • Gestalt #95 10 years ago

    I'm not sure how ADSL works, but my cable modem only accepts one MAC address at a time, so if you wanted to run your Xbox through it as well as the PC you'd have to set up a server to run them both through or something. Or else unplug your PC and then wait a few hours for the MAC address block to reset. Not exactly plug and play...

  • LaundroMat #96 10 years ago

    Gestalt, you can always install some internet sharing tool (such as SyGate). The other computer connected to mine passes through it and uses the same configuration as the one connected to the net even without a client running. So, it's completely transparent, which means connecting a console to it might work.

  • Kylun #97 10 years ago

    Otto, perhaps you could enlighten me..... "Cheap at half the price", surely that should be "Cheap at twice the price" - is this a Eurogamer pun - or is this one of those common misconceptions (like "Have your cake and eat it", is actually "eat your cake and have it"?)

  • otto #98 10 years ago

    Eh? Why me?!?

    Anyway, yeah, I reckon it's a Eurogamer pun - it's supposed to be "cheap at twice the price" but in the case of the xbox, that would be daft, so now it's "cheap at half the price" (well, two thirds, well, not even that cheap really, but "moderately expensive at a third of the price" would be a CRAP headline...)...

    Yes and "have your cake and eat it" always bothered me too, how would it be a problem to HAVE your cake, then EAT it? Surely it should be "eat your cake and have it"? Eh well...

  • Whizzo #99 10 years ago

    Anyway, yeah, I reckon it's a Eurogamer pun - it's supposed to be "cheap at twice the price"
    Nope it's just yet another English phrase that doesn't make logical sense, I'm sure we invent things like this to confuse foreigners. This site tries to find a proper explanation for it and might just about have a reasonable one.

    I prefer Confuse-A-Continental...

  • Gestalt #100 10 years ago

    "you can always install some internet sharing tool"

    Still not exactly plug and play, and not all PC games work with internet sharing. Just ask anyone who's tried playing Dungeon Siege - a Microsoft game using DirectPlay - with a shared connection. IIRC that doesn't work at all with Win2k / XP.


    "surely that should be "Cheap at twice the price" - is this a Eurogamer pun"

    Cheap at half the price is an English saying which, as Otto and Whizzo pointed out, doesn't really make any sense. I always thought it was a northern thing and vaguely sarcastic, but I could be wrong. ;)

  • otto #101 10 years ago

    Eh?? There's me saying "cheap at twice the price" for 33 years never realising the proper saying was "cheap at half the price" - duh! Well you learn something every day...

    Here's another one: for YEARS I thought there was a verb "to misle" someone (pronounced 'my-zal'), meaning bamboozle, fool, cheat them, until one day someone asked me what the hell I was talking about when I said that I'd been my-zald (spelt 'misled')... cue ridicule and laughter at my expense. "Awry" was the other one, I always thought it was 'awe-ree' - this is what comes of reading too much and speaking too little when young.

  • LaundroMat #102 10 years ago

    /me remembers the poor football fan at secondary school not understanding a word of what he read when reading aloud about someone locked up in gaol.

  • Divebomb #103 10 years ago

    Otto: "Here's another one: for YEARS I thought there was a verb "to misle" someone (pronounced 'my-zal'), meaning bamboozle, fool, cheat them, until one day someone asked me what the hell I was talking about when I said that I'd been my-zald (spelt 'misled')... cue ridicule and laughter at my expense. "Awry" was the other one, I always thought it was 'awe-ree' - this is what comes of reading too much and speaking too little when young."

    I thought the exact same thing about misled, and for the same reasons...

    I thought I was the only one *sniff*
    Edited by 1 at 06/05/02 @ 23:23

  • brokenkey #104 10 years ago

    ADSL & Xbox.
    I've posted elsewhere on here a link to a MS development document on how the on-line gaming aspect is supposed to work, but the primary theme was that it was going to be a peer-to-peer connection. (ie not server based gaming, such as you currently get with counterstrike, quake etc).

    Now from an infrastructure point of view, I can't see there is any chance that MS will be setting themselves up as a provider of broadband access - or in other words an ISP. Well, maybe possibly in the USA, but not in Europe.

    So if they are going to support broadband outside the US (and lets remember what happened with Sega & dreamcast here - online support arrived, late and undersupported) - it's going to have to be via a service. In fact its going to *have* to be in the form of a service - and the service will do player matching (because it's peer-to-peer right?, so how else are you going to find other players).

    My personal thoughts on the subject - if you've got a PC with ADSL and a lan card, don't bother with an xbox for on-line gaming. You've already got massive support for on-line gaming, there's a very healthy amatuer and professional lan party community out there already - what is a console going to offer that outguns what you already have?
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/02 @ 11:40

  • skalmanxl #105 10 years ago

    My personal thoughts on the subject - if you've got a PC with ADSL and a lan card, don't bother with an xbox for on-line gaming. You've already got massive support for on-line gaming, there's a very healthy amatuer and professional lan party community out there already - what is a console going to offer that outguns what you already have?

    My computer is a P2 350 with 64 megs of RAM. What can't the Xbox offer with my ADSL?

  • brokenkey #106 10 years ago

    good point...erm..mind you, you can play counterstrike with that rig, no problems.

    Of course, what I should have said was that if you had a *recent* PC, blah blah....
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/02 @ 10:35

  • Nemesis #107 10 years ago

    and lets remember what happened with Sega & dreamcast here - online support arrived, late and undersupported

    ...and expensive. IF they'd let you use your own ISP from the off (cue no phone charges) it may of been more attractive.

  • Gestalt #108 10 years ago

    "it was going to be a pier-to-pier connection"

    I hear pier-to-pier gaming is big in Brighton. ;)

  • Kylun #109 10 years ago

    Never had any complaints...!

  • brokenkey #110 10 years ago

    "I hear pier-to-pier gaming is big in Brighton. ;)"

    What the hell are you on about Gestalt ? ;)

  • Super Stu #111 10 years ago

    I think the chap meant Peer to Peer gaming (direct machine to machine gaming), rather than Pier to Pier gaming (some sort of bizare gaming setup involving long, wooden walkways extending out into the water)

  • kingmob #112 10 years ago

    Don't know if this is now "old news", but it appears that the X-box has been chipped. Check out lik-sang or isonews for more details.
    Not that I'm condoning that sort of thing of course...

  • skalmanxl #113 10 years ago

    X-box has been chipped

    There is a chip, but it won't play pirate games, only make the DVD and games region-x. It ain't out yet afaik.

  • kingmob #114 10 years ago

    Nope, there is a chip (not released, granted - the developers are apparently reluctant due to the obvious legal battle that will ensue) which, according to the developers plays games on CD-r, CD-rw, DVD-r & DVD-rw. The games have been available for a couple of days now.
    the chip is called Xtender btw

  • Pirotic #115 10 years ago

    "X-box has been chipped"

    people have managed to get the devkits to run games from CD-Rs and DVD-Rs, it was done months ago. we have a copy of mame which runs from a CD-R.

    of course, it doesnt work on commercial xboxs and i doubt micorosft will allow any company to manufactor the any chip that does without 10,000 lawyers knocking at there door with tommyguns.

    also nobody seems to mention that the gamecube has been hacked already, you can find a pre-release ISO for the actionreply which allows import games to run in 60hz/RGB on a PAL gamecube.

    a friend has tried it with Resident Evil and it works fine, apart from the memory card refuses to write :p
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/02 @ 16:06

  • Gestalt #116 10 years ago

    It's probably just overloading the memory card. ;) Wasn't there some problem where the standard memory card doesn't have enough room on it for even one Resident Evil save game, or am I just imagining things?

  • otto #117 10 years ago

    Action Replay for Cube

  • Pirotic #118 10 years ago

    i think its because the memory cards are region locked, not alot of people know but you cannot use import cards, so you'll either need to import a memory card or let the action reply do a format on it for you. not to sure if the latter is possible tho.
    Edited by 1 at 07/05/02 @ 16:27

  • brokenkey #119 10 years ago

    Xbox cracked
    This is the story for everyone who wondered:
    http://www.headliner.nl/index.php?c=us&p=headliner&s toryid=6

  • terminalterror #120 10 years ago

    My personal thoughts on the subject - if you've got a PC with ADSL and a lan card, don't bother with an xbox for on-line gaming. You've already got massive support for on-line gaming, there's a very healthy amatuer and professional lan party community out there already - what is a console going to offer that outguns what you already have?

    Fair point, but if you have ADSL and an Xbox, and if you don't need to pay Microsoft a monthly fee (unlikely but hey) then why not?