Hardware Test: Xbox 360 Elite Review
Has Microsoft done enough revision?
Version tested: Xbox 360
The Xbox 360 Elite is the first hardware revision of Microsoft's multi-million-selling console, a chance for the Xbox team to revisit the classic hardware, add additional high-definition functionality and hopefully address some of the reliability and noise issues.
That being the case, we decided to source an NTSC retail model and put it to the test - the only challenges there being finding an unsold unit, and then having customs and excise sitting on it for a month.
The remit for this hardware test was very straightforward - to put the Elite up to the highest possible scrutiny, to provide accurate quality tests of each of its HD outputs and report on the changes Microsoft has made to the core package, for better or for worse.
So here's the breakdown of our analysis:
The Package
There really are very few surprises about the 360 Elite packaging. Colour aside, the basic design of the box, and the contents themselves are pretty much identical to the current Premium Pack. So the basic inventory is essentially:
- The console
- Wireless controller
- Headset
- HD component cable (SD switchable)
- Headset
- 4x AA batteries
- 120GB Hard Disk
- Audio dongle
- HDMI cable
Obviously the last three elements are all-new. The 120GB hard disk actually weighs in with 107GB of free space - enough to handle all the Live download content you could possibly want. You still can't transfer over your video files though, so you can't help but think that it's actually a case of overkill in terms of storage potential. It's not as if Europeans are going to be making use of the Live Video Marketplace any time soon, buying TV episodes or 'hiring' HD movies.
The audio dongle supplements HDMI audio by offering a route to a surround sound amp either via dual RCA phonos (stereo) or Toslink optical audio (5.1 surround). It's also useful when using an HDMI-to-DVI cable as there is no provision for audio at all in this scenario otherwise.
The HDMI cable may well be Microsoft grey with a nice little hologram sticker on it, but it's really just a bog standard cable. Still, at least it's actually present...
Build Quality & Noise Levels

Let's not beat about the bush - this may well be a revised model but any actual improvements over the current model are relatively slight. It's the same case, the same monstrous power supply and the same controllers (still complete with dicky d-pad). The only obvious difference, colour aside, is the inclusion of the all-important HDMI output on the rear of the unit.
Internally there's a very slightly refined motherboard with what looks to be a tweaked cooling assembly. Hopefully, this should help with the reliability issues the 360 has had, but we're still suspicious about its effectiveness as the new console doesn't feature the new heatsink being implanted into refurbed 360s. Maybe it'll make it into the final European version of the Elite.
The only other major change under the bonnet is the new HANA video display chip, replacing the old ANA version in the classic 360. This chip has erroneously been described as the silicon that deals with the 360's inbuilt hardware scaling. In truth, Microsoft has now confirmed to us that it's merely a video output chip - a means of transferring the framebuffer into all of the different signals: composite, s-video, RGB SCART, component, VGA and - the key addition with HANA - HDMI. Scaling itself is actually performed by the Xenos GPU (most likely using a variation of Lanczos resizing) so in that respect the Elite performs identically to the original Xbox 360. The presence of HANA confirms that there will be no aftermarket HDMI solution for the current model.

Moving onto the cooling situation and there's no doubt that noise levels are still poor, but marginally improved over the current model. It's difficult to provide a comparison as many retail 360s run at various fan speeds, but put it this way: if you can run Live Arcade games and demos and the fan speed stays low, like a constant whirr, that's what the Elite is like too - maybe a touch quieter in fact. If your fans don't stay quiet in this scenario, expect the Elite to be a revelation. With all 360s, heat dissipation seems to be much improved if your console rests vertically.
The disk drive is still far too loud though. Our test unit has a Hitachi drive that while much quieter than the launch model is still insanely noisy compared to the PlayStation 3 drive, or indeed any modern DVD-ROM. The Philips/BenQ drive is quieter, but not massively so.
In short then - the 360 has evolved, it handles all its new features nicely (but not spectacularly) and it seems as though a little effort has been expended on sorting out its issues. But it's not nearly enough to be honest; it's as though the design has "stopgap" written all over it.
Set-Up
The Xbox 360 Elite dashboard is virtually identical to the Caucasian retail unit's, to the point where even the HDMI settings are handled identically to the existing video outputs. Connect up the unit to an HDTV and you get exactly the same options as you would with component - 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p selections. The same as PlayStation 3, or indeed any other HDMI device.
But hook up a PC monitor using an HDMI-to-DVI cable and the console recognises that it's no longer in HDTV territory, and offers up its full range of VGA resolution options. This is a wonderfully insightful move by Microsoft - not only can you get the console to scale to the exact resolution of most displays, but it also means that even those cheapo Chinese GBP 100 LCD screens can be used as highly effective HD screens. So for those of us who play 360 in the study, bedroom or wherever, are well taken care of. Indeed, it's a shame that the same resolution options are not available when the Elite is connected to an HDTV. Very few displays actually run at native HD resolutions (1024x768 and 1366x768 being the norm) so it's impossible to get the Elite to scale to the exact resolution of the set.
HDCP-Free

Another aspect of the Elite that I really appreciated was the complete omission of copy protection (HDCP) on the HDMI output. There are hundreds of thousands of perfectly capable DVI monitors out there (including many that can handle native 1080p) that won't work with PlayStation 3 as they don't feature the HDCP decoder chip required to descramble the image.
This is no problem for the Xbox 360 Elite, which only invokes the HDCP encryption when viewing an HD-DVD movie. It's the most logical state of affairs and it's very puzzling why Sony doesn't follow suit. I can only assume that internal Blu-ray playback precludes this from a licensing perspective as I can see no point whatsoever in encrypting gameplay video. This is further substantiated by HDCP being disabled on development PS3s which have no Blu-ray functionality whatsoever.
HDMI 1.2 vs HDMI 1.3
The Elite is an HDMI 1.2 level device, which basically means that it can only transmit lossless sound through the HDMI cable in stereo and is limited to component and 24-bit RGB digital video output. The PlayStation 3 on the other hand is an HDMI 1.3 level device, in theory offering better audio support and compatibility with superior colour depths. We'll come back to this later in the HD-DVD performance part of the test, but suffice to say for gaming, the Elite's support for the older profile is barely worth criticism.
To the best of my knowledge, no PS3 games have yet supported anything other than 24-bit RGB, just like Xbox 360. And while Warhawk supports 7.1 uncompressed LPCM audio over HDMI (something 360 can't do), it's not commonly supported in PS3 games.
Digital Quality Tests

If you have the right equipment, it's relatively straightforward to test the quality of the digital output of the new Xbox 360 Elite. Development 'debug' stations can be interfaced with a PC, and direct dumps of the console's framebuffer (the actual video RAM if you will) are transferred across at the touch of a button. It's how most of the games press take their own screenshots when they can be bothered. So getting a reference quality shot direct from the innards of the 360 is no problem.
Then it's just a case of loading up the same game on the retail 360 Elite, connecting it up to a sufficiently powerful capture system and then getting the same shot. This is extremely straightforward using a Digital Foundry HD direct-to-disk recorder - the only system capable of losslessly grabbing 24-bit colour depth and full HD capture resolution. Just initiate a mammoth video capture, then extract the shot that most closely matches the shot we already have from the debug station's video RAM.
Test #1: Call of Duty 2
I've always had a soft spot for Infinity Ward's classic wartime shooter, and since I already had a couple of framebuffer grabs lurking on my laptop, I set out to replicate them via the digital output of the Elite.
Since the capture unit was in this case digitally calibrated to full-range RGB, I set the reference levels on the 360 Elite to 'Enhanced' and went ahead with the capture. The comparison shot speaks for itself really. Aside from the colour being just a touch out, the HDMI output of the Elite is doing a fine job in pumping out the 360's framebuffer with no loss of detail.
Test #2: Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2007

Impressed with the results of the first test, I wondered what could be learned by comparing a 360 framebuffer shot with HDMI grabs from the Elite and the PlayStation 3. Time to boot up Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2007, a game I found to be virtually identical across the two formats in round two of the Eurogamer PS3 vs Xbox 360 face-off.
A quick trip to Hole 18 of St Andrews was enough to confirm that in the digital domain, there really is practically zero difference whatsoever. The Elite's HDMI signal proved to be the match of the 360's framebuffer and once again, you can only tell the difference by looking at the tiny variations in the colour saturation.
It's the same with the PS3 version of the game too - identical resolution, very slight change in the colour.
The Xbox 360 Elite offered up everything I was hoping for in terms of the overall precision of the image over HDMI. It's simply sensational. However, I am surprised a little that the colours aren't completely identical between the video RAM and the HDMI output. Although the 360 offers up three different reference levels for colour, none of them were identical to what was lurking inside the video RAM. The 360 apparently renders everything internally in the component colourspace, so maybe the translation into RGB for output over HDMI is causing this.
But this is monumentally obtuse criticism considering a tiny tweak on your display would resolve the difference - a difference you're not going to notice in all probability any way.
HDMI vs VGA vs Component
Or... "Should I upgrade from my classic 360?"
OK, so the nice black case looks a bit better than the original retail Xbox 360. And that 120GB hard disk is not to be sniffed at. But the $64,000 dollar question boils down to whether the HDMI output of the Elite is sufficiently better than the VGA and component options that the current unit already possesses. In short, is the Elite a worthwhile upgrade if you already have current generation 360?
Microsoft has said time and time again (presumably to counter PS3 hype) that the analogue options on the 360 are more than good enough to match a pure digital output. Indeed, they've been dubbed 'broadcast quality' on more than one occasion by Microsoft's ever-present internet evangelists such as Amir Majidimehr from Microsoft's Consumer Media Technology group, a regular on the AVS Forum
Now, thanks to the option of a digital output, we can finally put that to the test once again thanks to the Digital Foundry HD capture unit, a machine that captures the full quality of any HD signal, be it analogue or digital, component or VGA, DVI or HDMI.
In-Game Tests
Just like the HDMI quality test, we chose games where we could get exact frames duplicated, so we could capture the same action using all three output options. So that would be a welcome return for Ridge Racer 6's AV Player, a recorded battle from the Halo 3 beta featuring Johnny Minkley and Richard Melville being ruthlessly gunned down like stinking pigs, and a couple of shots from the intros to Shadowrun's training missions.

There's a small degree of difference in the colour levels between all three shots (which may well be down to the capture unit - calibrating analogue is not an exact science) but the important thing to notice is that all the key resolution is maintained in both the analogue (component, VGA) shots and the lossless HDMI output.
Now, the Digital Foundry HD capture machine is extraordinarily precise - far more accurate than any consumer monitor has any need to be. So the real question revolves around how good your display is. Typically, cheaper HDTVs and flat panels work better with digital (converting analogue signals back to digital can be a tricky business), whereas you'll be hard-pressed to notice the difference between component and HDMI on a good screen.
My test screen was a Dell 2405FPW, and while HDMI looked brilliant, there was a tangible loss of quality on VGA and component looked far worse. I'm sure it'll be a different story on many different displays.
So while Microsoft is right to extol the virtues of its component and VGA outputs, the fact is that a digital output cuts out an additional element of processing analogue to digital at the display end and in many cases, this gives a huge quality boost. The only question is, if picture quality is an issue, do you upgrade your Xbox to Elite status, or do you put the cash towards a better display? Much as I prefer the Elite to the original 360, I think I'd sooner have a higher quality display capable of better results from a wider range of sources both analogue and digital.
HD-DVD Performance
With the Microsoft add-on HD-DVD player now available for purchase at a mere GBP 99 from certain outlets, the Xbox 360 add-on is surely the cheapest way to get "into" high definition movies without the worry of sinking untold hundreds of Pounds Sterling into a format that may not last the course.
When combined with the classic 360, the drive certainly does a great job - 1080i via component provides an excellent picture, and 1080p over VGA is marginally better still (some shots can be found in our original HD-DVD player test.
The introduction of HDMI adds another 1080p-capable output, and one that works with far more displays than VGA. HDMI also allows for 1080i digital output - something the 'classic' 360 has yet to offer and a signal that in theory offers the optimum quality level that's compatible with all displays featuring the "HD Ready" badge.
As soon as the HD-DVD spins up, HDCP digital copy protection is enabled on the HDMI port, so only the more recent widescreen LCD monitors, and of course HD-ready HDTVs, will work with it.
HDMI Quality Tests

First up is the movie we received bundled with our HD-DVD drive, King Kong. Many months after its release, it's still held aloft by HD-DVD fans as 'reference quality' - a turn of phrase that's meant to suggest that the movie is virtually identical to the quality of the original master.
As you'd expect, the picture is virtually flawless - to the point where the huge resolution combined with the pin-sharp clarity shows up just how artificial much of the CG is in the movie. Check out the screenshot gallery here and spare a quick thought for the aggravation we had in defeating the HDCP copy protection to get these genuine 360 grabs. Also note that as with gaming, the quality is barely a touch better than the VGA output.
Next up is the more controversial Batman Begins. It's an altogether softer movie than Kong, and while it still looks great, it's definitely not the picture quality showcase of Peter Jackson's good-looking but ultimately tedious effort. Check out our Batman Begins 360 HDMI screenshot gallery for more.

While a digital 1080i/p output is a clear advantage, the bottom line is that whether you're comparing HDMI to component or to VGA, once again it's the quality of your display that is far more significant than the 360's output.
What is perhaps of more interest to HD-DVD fans is that the Elite doesn't solve any of the 360's existing HD-DVD audio shortcomings. There is no provision for transmitting undecoded surround sound through the HDMI cable, and all audio is still internally translated into a format the console can output via Toslink SPDIF. Despite this internal conversion having been recently upgraded to support Dolby Digital, DTS and WMA Pro output, it's still some way short of the full-fat uncompressed audio experience. You have to wonder why Microsoft couldn't have added improved audio support to the HDMI output, or just added six or eight phonos on the rear of the unit for direct connection to an amp. I can only conclude that despite its premium price-point, Microsoft doesn't take HD-DVD that seriously.
Therefore, despite its pretensions as a high-end HD device, I can't help but feel that HD-DVD owners are going to feel a little short-changed by opting for an Elite. It's essentially addressing an issue that wasn't a problem in the first place (picture quality) and completely ignoring the key area where the HD-DVD experience disappointed.
I guess I just expected more - Sony is doing everything in its power to make the PS3 the best Blu-ray player money can buy. It's clear that Microsoft doesn't have that same level of commitment to HD-DVD.
The Verdict
I find it quite amazing that there's so much to write about a machine that is essentially a tweaked version of the same console that launched at the tail-end of 2005. It's perhaps because the original 360 was such a flawed classic. It's a system that offers so many essential gaming moments - it's just sad that they're all accompanied by a constant raucous racket from the DVD-ROM drive. Additionally, thanks to the terrible reliability issues and the spectre of the three red lights of doom, you're left with the nagging worry that every gameplay session may well be your last.
So, the first facelifted model to come along is going to face a lot of scrutiny - not just for the additional functionality and options it offers, but to see just how much Microsoft has responded to the criticism of the original unit's shortcomings. And in these respects, the Xbox 360 Elite is something of a Jekyll and Hyde scenario.
Oooh you are awful...
On the one hand, the core issue that most gamers had with the machine has barely been addressed. Yes, the machine is tangibly quieter than the current unit, but it's still loud when running a game from the DVD-ROM. It's also still a lottery as to which drive you'll end up getting, with the BenQ unit being a little less noisy than the Hitachi. However, the notion that there should be any disparity at all between any given system is crazy in the first place. Why not one use one supplier with a quiet drive? The stupidly large power block is unchanged too - another aesthetically hideous aspect of the 360 that I really wanted Microsoft to do something about.

While the 120GB hard disk is a nice addition, I was disappointed that the transfer cable to port across your data was not included in the package. Microsoft should have recognised that their hardcore fanbase are going to want to upgrade and it should have given them all the tools to do so painlessly. Of far more value of course would be the ability to allow users to back-up their stuff onto an external hard disk or flash drive in the first place. The files are encrypted and DRMed up to the eyeballs any way, so what's the problem in storing them remotely?
The jury's also out on reliability. The Elite is a little quieter and hopefully the tweaked cooling solution will help the machines last longer. But the bottom line is that the same components are still pumping out the same amount of heat and historically that has not been good news for reliability. That being the case, we're inclined to ask where the 65nm revision of the PowerPC CPU has got to? It's not in the Elite, that's for sure.
... But I like you
However, on the plus side, I can't help but really like the new console. A lot. I've always admired Microsoft's philosophy of bringing HD gaming to as wide an audience as possible. Every HD-ready plasma and LCD has a component port, but with the 360 launch they went one better and provided VGA support - opening up a whole new range of potential new HD gaming screens for their system, or just freeing up an extra port on well-specified displays.
With the Elite, they've done it again with a brilliant quality digital output that works beautifully on any screen you plug it into, be it a low budget GBP 100 Chinese LCD monitor or a GBP 3,000 Panasonic 1080p plasma. Microsoft has stripped away the copy protection nonsense that plagues PS3's digital output and made exceptional picture quality available to gamers no matter what kind of equipment they use.
In many ways, the HDMI port and the bigger hard disk makes this the machine that the launch unit really should have been. However, I find it hard to recommend the Elite as an upgrade to a current model as all the evidence suggests that pumping the cash into an improved display gets you all the picture quality you could ever want from the current system.
But as I said, it's hard not to like the 360 Elite. Microsoft's 360 offering is simply a great console, and the fact that the Elite is undoubtedly the best version makes it hard to resist.
The Xbox 360 Elite launched in North America in 29th April, and is due for a Europe-wide roll-out in the autumn.
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Comments (118) Latest comment 5 years ago
Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!
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Tempted with 360 but it's just not solid enough
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Am I the only person who can't see a whole lot of difference between them?
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Any news on tv downloads for UK why the long wait? licensing?
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The XBOX 360 hardware just canīt pass anymore than 2 PCM channels over HDMI, to call it HDMI 1.2 (which they do) is pretty much a lie since they donīt even support the earlier HDMI standards with the PCM limit.
Does the HD-DVD addon support 24p devices?
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Still haven't fixed those reliability issues >
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http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...
http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...
http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...
http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...
and so on.
But, yes, the difference are hard to spot from screenshots alone.
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I read the "Verdict" page as... Its got the same issues as the 360 technically, its got (probably) the same reliablity/hardware issues, it does the exact same thing with minimal difference in image quality. The plusses basically being that the 360 is a great console (which it already was before the elite).
The elite is more expensive, doesn't really add anything to the 360, can't be recommended if you already HAVE a 360, but yet the reviewer is all gushy over it.
Seems to me like "Money grab, MS!"... and I'll pass on this version. Charging the same amount as a PS3 without a HD-DVD drive? Go tug the other one, its got bells on.
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If you want to see how truly fanboyish articles read, go to GameSpot, those guys are ACTIVELY doing marketing for Microsoft, and trying to sell a 360 in every freaking review.
I actually applaud Eurogamer for pointing out everything the Elite does right, how much of an improvement it is over the original 360, and for only making the relevant comparisons needed with the PS3, especially for doing so without any stupid fanboyish remarks.
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And as I work in the shithole that is Game my warranty on the 360 is pretty much a lifetime one anyway.
But I do love Black.....Ummmm... No I'll control myelf.
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Yeah, looked at those. I still can't see much. The HDMI one looks a bit darker, but that's about it. Maybe seeing things in motion will make a difference.
The links you provided don't work, btw. There's a < /br > at the end of them. Removing that makes them work.
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Wake me up when it's got a HD-DVD drive inside (or perhaps a Blu-Ray one, since it looks like HD-DVD is increasingly a second-place contender in the hi-def disc stakes).
[link url=http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/1 7/blockbuster-chooses-blu-ray-is-the-war-over/
]http://ww w.engadget.com/2007/06/17/block...[/link]
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Microsoft has absolutely no interest in HD-DVD other than undermining the rise of Blu-ray. Their long term plan is for everyone to download their digital entertainment from them, so the longer the format war continues, the more confused the consumer gets, the better for Microsoft in the end. Unfortunately for them it's looking increasingly like Blu-ray will win.
This "upgrade" doesn't address any of the issues that made me decide to ditch my 360 in favour of a PS3. Yes, Gears of War is a fantastic game, but accompanied by the racket from the appalling drive (which is accessed almost constantly) it becomes a total pain in the arse to play.
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The biggest anoience for me with the 360 is the power brick, makes taking it round relatives at christmas and such a pain, the PS3 is alot easyer from the respect.
Yet the 360 does have beter graphics and (currently) games. So I'm guess under the TV will remain crowded with both for some time yet. Unless the 360 dies again, in which case I'm not sure if I could be bothered with replacing it.
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I can see virtually no difference, and what I do see (slight colour / contrast / brightness differences) doesn't look any better or worse....
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1. with the normal Xbox at Ģ280 + HD at Ģ99 giving Ģ379 inc
2. and the PS3 at Ģ399 just about everywhere
3. then this can only be Ģ299 so that with HD drive its Ģ399
So are MS really going to sell this for only Ģ20 more than current model???
I suspect MS will get it wrong. They really need to drop Core to Ģ149, Prem to Ģ229 and this to Ģ299. We shall see.
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But the point is that consumer monitors by and large AREN'T of broadcast quality.
There's a strong chance that your display won't be as good as translating the analogue data back into digital so in this case having an HDMI output will result in a dramatic leap in picture quality. This is most definitely the case with my monitor as I mentioned in the text, but it is far less of an issue with a good quality HDTV.
The point about PS3 and HDCP is simple. You can't use PS3 with a vast array of DVI monitors, you can with the Elite. There is no 'agenda' here, it's just a plain and simple fact that the Elite offers up the same digital quality on a wider range of hardware.
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/pats Elite on head
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Video yes, audio no.
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Like EG said, the Elite is the machine the original Premium model should have been from the start...
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Disk or disc? I report, you decide.
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So, some of you here wanted the HD-DVD drive included in the Elite. Let's imagine that:
E3 2007: MS announces new Elite for Europe with HD-DVD included
Sept 07: New Elite bundled with Halo 3 for current premium price
Sept 07: You all whinners buy your HD-DVD Elite
June 08: Blu-Ray wins the Next Gen DVD war. Supports for HD-DVD slowly disappears
June 08: You all whinners curse at MS for including the HD-DVD drive in the Elite (thing that you asked for), make a Revolution, flame forums, flame cars, flame bins, whatever...
E3 2008: You buy a PS3
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I will paypal you 10 BRITISH POUNDS if you replace the word 'Elite' with 'Negroid' in that sentence.
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However, Microsoft's refusal to include the HD-DVD add-on inside the 360 shows a lack of confidence in the format I think and is the reason I'm buying BD movies and not HD-DVD ones. The PS3 offers a neat all-in-one solution without the need for TWO hideous power "bricks" and a clumsy external box so as far as I'm concerned the Format Wars is already over as I have no interest in HD-DVD anymore. If the Xbox 360 had had HD-DVD from the start, and used it for games too, then things could have been very, very different and HD-DVD could have been the leading format by now and not BD. Plus the delay in adding the drive to the 360 might have resulted in more reliable hardware since Microsoft would have had more time to test it thoroughly. So, the machine might have cost Ģ400 but that's not a really a problem, is it?
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Oh and yeah, the price would have been a problem. Look at how the PS3 is selling even with the massive Playstation fanbase / heritage.
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If the Xbox 360 had been as reliable as the PS3 apparently is and sold at Ģ100 more with HD-DVD and Wi-Fi built-in, would we really be complaining now? What about those people that bought launch machines and had to pay Ģ85 to have it repaired outside the warranty? On reflection I'd have gladly waited an extra six months and paid more for a better built Xbox 360 with extra features as I've a feeling I'll have to pay to have my SECOND 360 repaired at some point over the next few years or even have to buy a brand-new machine.
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Personally, I don't own a HDTV and won't for a while so I'm glad I don't have to pay for a next gen disc drive. As for its use in game, Oblivion convinced me there's still life in DVD.
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I think if it had a noticeable change in drive noise and cooling system I'd have traded the old one in for one of these but as it stands I think I'll hang fire and wait for the 'real' upgrade (65nm etc.).
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Multiple sourcing has many tangible uses, the three most prominent being; to avoid shortages if there is a manufacturing problem, to ensure that standards of production remain high (as if one supplier's standards slip they are under threat of losing business to the other supplier), and also as a bargaining tool when negotiating contracts for supply. Competition = Lower costs for Microsoft.
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Its an article about a console, so its going to be focussed on the console. And if the author likes the console, that is going to come across.
The only people who see fanboyish in such things are simply fanboys themselves, and consequently quite mad and worthy of being completely ignored (and possibly pelted with fruit).
I have spoken
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Well, you DID get it imported from the US...
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nice addition of the HDMI port but NOT including a HD DVD !!!!! complete cop out MS.
MS isnt getting involved in the HD DVD war.
guess Blu ray wins.
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Which makes it useless as only av fanatics see any benefit in HD playback.
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Microsoft products tend to come too soon (360, Zune, Vista). Now you know where they got the nickname Mr. Softie.
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""Secondly, Microsoft see the HD DVD add-on as very much an entry level solution, which is reflected in the price, and for those that require that high-end audiophile experience, they are well enough catered for with hardware players. This is from comments on the Avsforum by Amir who runs the VC1 team within Microsoft."
Which makes it useless as only av fanatics see any benefit in HD playback. "
Well, no. The difference in picture quality going from SD to HD is much more significant than the difference between high-bitrate compressed audio and lossless audio.
I wouldn't call myself an av fanatic, but I do like HD playback especially via my projector on a big screen, but I'm not complaining about the audio quality provided by the 360. It's certainly not useless by any means.
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PCWorld are the fellows for you then. My 360 went after a month or two (maybe three, I forget), so I took it back and they swapped it on the spot.
I don't normally like PCWorld, but I won't cut off my nose to spite my face. They price matched play.com for me, so hunt about the best price first and then trot off down there with a URL.
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Breaking news. Apple weigh in on the debate. Fair and balanced, or Americanization [sic]?
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I was primarily commenting on the HD-DVD add-on, but that might have been unclear. The quality of the player is not that good, probably won't satisfy av fanatics who are the only ones to spot the difference between an upscaled regular DVD and a HD one.
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The introduction of HDMI adds another 1080p-capable output, and one that works with far more displays than VGA. HDMI also allows for 1080i digital output - something the 'classic' 360 has yet to offer and a signal that in theory offers the optimum quality level that's compatible with all displays featuring the "HD Ready" badge.
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I can't believe this got such a positive conclusion after the review basically said to me: "There is very little new, and you'd have to have more money than sense to shell out for this if you already have a 360"
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At the moment i'm using a 14" tv, so am wondering whether investing in a nice lcd that uses a completely different native resolution to 720p is such a good idea... Any advice anyone?
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Microsoft Campus,
Thames Valley Park,
Reading,
Berkshire,
RG6 1WG
20th June 2007
Re: XBox 360 Elite
Dear Sir/Madam,
DO NOT WANT.
Yours sincerly,
J. Aded
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Wha-? No problems here with my PS3 and 1080p Samsung screen. What problems are these??? Please explain Eurogamer, maybe we can help you out.
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Those screenshots are unbelievable tho. Bugger all difference whatsoever.
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However... if you can't see a difference with your own eyes, then the elite has probably very little added *value* for you.
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Nnnrgghhh.
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"Wha-? No problems here with my PS3 and 1080p Samsung screen. What problems are these??? Please explain Eurogamer, maybe we can help you out."
EG are referring to the HDCP copy protection which means that you cannot play PS3 games with HDMI on HDTVs or monitors that are not HDCP-compliant. They do actually state this in the article actually when they say that only the HD-DVD movies invoke HDCP which means that you can at least play 360 games on older non-HDCP-compliant HDTVs and monitors (via an HDMI-to-DVI adaptor).
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Isn't it quite obvious that the Elite is NOT a product intended for Europe? In the US, where the Video Marketplace is growing, there is a definite use for a larger HD so why not use the opportunity to upgrade a few other stuff in it at the same time.
Unbless you are downloading every possible demo and arcade game and keeping them forever on your 360 I do not see any real need for a larger HD yet here in Europe. So of course the added cost for the larger HD isn't really making sense to us Europeans. Didn't MS also say the Elite was a "limited" thingy? Or am my memory incorrect in that regards?
As for HDMI - hopefully we will see it being introduced even for Premiums later this year (is there really any reason why they wouldn't do it? Price maybe?)
As for reliabliity. I'm surpised that they haven't figured out the problem better yet. Although all the talka bout the extra fan, I wonder if that is helping. At the same time, and not trying to diminish the issue, me and at least 3 other friends that got 360's either at launch or right after still have had no issues so I don't feel the "every 360 will break" dooms day predictions are correct either. To many do break but it is far from all or IMHO the majority.
I was a bit tempted with the Elite (if it would be released here) But I probably will wait for a 65 nm model instead as I really do not need HDMI over component right now. Got a PS3, a AppleTV, a HTPC and a HD-digital receiver all fighting for the 3 HDMI connectors on my TV anyway and the image quality on my 40" 1080p Samsung still is very good.
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/shakes fist
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HDCP can only protect movies, and it does not affect games in any way.
Even in movies, the publisher has to specifically activate HDCP for it to work (when active, you can't play HD content unless both the player and the display are HDCP compliant).
Also, European standards require TVs to be HDCP compliant - otherwise they can't be called "HD ready".
As far as I know no Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies with HDCP enabled have been released yet.
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+1,352
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+1,352
So you two haven't find the full size images yet then? Follow the links in the article rather than clicking on the images, or go here:
Full size grabs
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Even in movies, the publisher has to specifically activate HDCP for it to work (when active, you can't play HD content unless both the player and the display are HDCP compliant).
Also, European standards require TVs to be HDCP compliant - otherwise they can't be called "HD ready".
As far as I know no Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies with HDCP enabled have been released yet.
You're getting confused betweet HDCP which is active on pretty much all HDMI devices and the ICT (image constaint token) which is a software addition to HD movies on both HD DVD and Blu-ray and one that hasn't been activated yet on any title, primarily because it downscales analogue output to 960x540.
HDCP most certainly does affect PS3 games in that the HDMI output of the PS3 is active at all times. Development PS3s have the option to turn it off, which is how we take the grabs without resorting to the technical trickery we used to get the HD DVD 360 shots.
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Another thing that Sony should do is allow retailers to fit any hard drive they wish in the Playstation 3. Sony sells them the Playstation 3 without a hard drive and then it's up to the retailer to fit it with a 40, 60, 80, 10, 120, 160 GB hard drive of choice. That could sweeten the deal a whole lot, especially as it might incite a small price war
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It would also turn it into a freaking PC.
Bad idea.
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I meant, retailers would be selling it like a PC.
Build-your-console and all that. Doesn't sound natural to me.
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Buy the one or the other, or both based upon the games, and the delivery!
I have no illusions whatsoever regarding the relative eminence or shiteness of Microsoft or Sony. Anthropomorphosizing large multinational firms is daft.
However, atm the 360 is a way, waaay better deal giving the enormous price difference (here in Norway the fullversion PS3 is double the price of a regular fullversion 360). Also, exclusive, actually interesting games on the PS3 are far between - for now.
The 360 has Gears, Viva Pinata, Dead Rising, Call of Duty 2, Guitar Hero, Dead or Alive series, the Tomb Raider stuff, more Tom Clancy's than you can shake a stick at, SEGA's catalog (Virtua Fighter), and now it will be getting GTA IV soon with potentially more stuff downloadable than the PS3..
Big online games like Age of Conan have also been confirmed.
The connectivity has been good on the 360, and upgrades have steadily brought a better picture through the various connections I have used (RGB, component, and now VGA).
The only ONLY thing, that REALLY IRKS ME with the 360 is the noise the DVD drive makes, and I am quite disappointed that the ELITE does not remedy this.
Still. I have somehow managed to grow accustomed to the sound, and am not hearing it as much as I did earlier.
The 360 is a good machine though, I have had no hardware faults either, though I sympathize with all of you that have had, sounds like quite a lot of you.
The day the PS3 gets a reasonable price AND some good exclusive titles I will buy that too, and enjoy it. At the current moment in time it is just incredibly silly paying that extra money for a silent running machine that does not play Gears of War or Dead Rising or does not have Live.
And that just about sums it up really.
Sony is not your friend, neither is Microsoft!
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Maybe don't bring it up then?!
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Most people who say that end up seeing the RRoD the following week. Don't bring yourself bad luck
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See, Bob, I got a PS2, of course. It's a brilliant machine with TONS of great games. And for that reason I sold off my old version of it recently to a mate and bought a slim new model.
I would love the potentially upscaling functions of the PS3 to do wonders for the best PS2 games, but then again, I've heard a lot of noise about flawed backward compatibility, at least with the PS3 we've got here in Europe..
And games? Resistance: Fall of Man - you mean? Sorry, not sold yet. But I may be one day.
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Face facts, the PS3 has a piss poor line up of games at the moment, and it doesn't really look like it'll improve that much before 2008. (When compared to the 360's line up anyway)
You have very few exciting games, and 360 owners have to put up with the fact that their console could explode at any second.
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Oh and eg? If you put up comparison shots, make them large enough for people to see because these are so tiny you can't see shit in them.
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The future of HD-Dvd isn't looking too bright"
Wii is outselling PS3 by 4-1
The future of HD gaming isn't looking too bright.
Couldn't resist. =)
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Have to agree with the magpie, bob. The 360 is far and away the better machine in the only way that matters...games - both quantity and quality. If the elite can make it better, awesome.
Speaking as someone who dropped a pile of cash on cables trying to get my PS3 to output via hdmi onto my HDTV (non-HDCP-enabled, I later discovered, despite the manual's claims), the fact that the elite has such a varied video output selection is a godsend.
And bob, I love my piano-black PS3, but its games library is emptier than the Sahara desert. Truth is, I've only used it for PS2 games (Resistance is disappointing, and the multi-platform games are generally better on 360). I hope that this will change soon.
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I bet this costs Ģ380.00 or so when it hits!
Not enought improvements in this version for me I'm afraid!
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Another aspect of the Elite that I really appreciated was the complete omission of copy protection (HDCP) on the HDMI output.
... but somehow I think I won't have to rant. Because this is just great news.
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Very happy with component, my Aquos telly and 1080i upscaling of 720p.
Nope my cash is waiting for the PS3 when MGS4 comes out by that time hopefully games like that church blaster RFOM will be cheaper.
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Never thought it would work.
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Also, comparing the hardware components or capabilities of a PS3 development kit with a retail machine is possibly the most retarded thing I've heard all day.
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Blockbuster in the USa have stated they will be stocking Blu Ray and only 200 stores will carry HD DVD whilst there is still meager demand...
its all over
HD DVD = Betamax
Blu Ray = VHS
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"I suspect the ommission of copy protection on the HDMI is due to the fact they have an incompatible USB link between HD-DVD drive and machine so to include it would be pointless. So, it's less to do with 'fighting the good fight' and more to do with being too tight to include a in built drive with the full copy protection-capable links from drive to screen. "
Has no-one read the article? There is no HDCP copy protection when playing games, but there is HDCP when playing HD DVDs. So everything you've just said was meaningless.
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There is no HDCP support when playing HD-DVDs either because the USB connection between external drive and machine isn't capable of carrying a HDCP signal. Any HDCP enabled disk played on it would be downsampled, even if the link between 360 and TV is HDMI.
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"There is no HDCP support when playing HD-DVDs either because the USB connection between external drive and machine isn't capable of carrying a HDCP signal. Any HDCP enabled disk played on it would be downsampled, even if the link between 360 and TV is HDMI. "
HDCP is an encryption protocol which is added at the video output stage. Also HDCP is nothing to do with "downsampling". The downsampling is for analogue outputs and is used when the Image Constraint Token flag is enabled on the disc.
And if you read the article it even mentions that HDCP is enabled, and they had to defeat it in order to get the movie screen grabs.
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er... I mean Microsoft (true typo - I just kept it in).
I think I might just wait - depending on the review scores and release dates of Assassin's Creed and GTA IV - until they fix the outstanding issues before I give these console manufacturers any more money.
I want holidays and a Golf TDi, so it'll be easy to do - especially as the Daily Mailers and Jack Thompson got their wish of a banned Manhunt 2 - no reason to buy a Wii yet.
Sony'll be lucky if I buy a PS3 before 2009-10 - I've got tonnes of AAA PS2 and Xbox games that are un finished, and I haven't even bought Okami or played a single Zelda game yet.
Not played Fahrenheit, not got Half-life 2, not finished F.E.A.R., hardly played FarCry (my brother has my copies of these games - and a PC that'll actually run them well), not bothered about Halo until they make a controller that lets me look and turn with my hand rather than my thumb...
So, they've all got to work a little harder to get my ca$h - as spending thousands on cars and holidays gets me more girls - CONSOLES DO NOT.
I own tonnes of computers and consoles, from a Tandy TRS-80, to an Amstrad CPC, Multimega, 32X, Saturn, PS2, PSP, Xbox and several kickass PCs (for 2 years before I built them) - So my gaming needs are sorted!
The new games aren't even ready yet. I haven't finished San Andreas yet because of the stupid targeting and save systems.
Games Industry - sort yourself out - or you get no Ģ2000+ investment from me over the next few years.
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WTF is this guy on about? Does he even know what a caucasian is?
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i thought it was funny
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OK...I'm going to sound like I'm being pedantic here, probably because I am, but you say earlier that software emulation is better than hardware emulation - stating the fact that your PS3 plays most of your PS1/PS2 games, which is great.
But the 360 has software emulation as well, and as you pointed out, the number of games emulated on it just now is, to be frank, shite.
So, if I can translate properly here: software emulation is good if you'e got a PS3, but bad if you've got a 360?! Thats is either a masterclass in arguing, or the rantings of a Sony fanboy!
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I'll wait for the next re-design then.