Gran Turismo's Kazunori Yamauchi

By Rob Fahey Published 4 April, 2008

On damage, online and perfectionism.

Kazunori Yamauchi is a man living the boy racer dream - or rather, he would be, if boy racers even dared to have this kind of dream. As the creator of what is arguably the world's most authentic, most comprehensive simulation of race driving, he lives and breathes cars and motorsport.

The Gran Turismo games are so popular and influential among car manufacturers that Yamauchi has been given new cars as presents. And after expressing his love for Nissan's 350Z he was invited to help build their new supercar, the GT-R, by designing the vehicle's multifunction display. (For helping out, unsurprisingly, they gave him one.)

You could certainly argue that Yamauchi is living the dream. On the other hand, the cause of his immense success - his relentless, nigh-on obsessive perfectionism - is probably a key obstacle to his enjoyment of it.

Where you and I see a great game, an amazingly detailed model or a beautiful track, Yamauchi sees only room for improvement. The result is that Polyphony Digital is notorious for delivering games late (some, like the PSP version of Gran Turismo, seemingly disappear entirely for years on end). The games are always huge hits when they appear, delighting those whose tastes are in tune with Yamauchi's own perfectionism and deeply impressing even those who aren't.

'Gran Turismo's Kazunori Yamauchi' Screenshot 1

The man himself, in true glowing form.

Now Gran Turismo 5 Prologue has given European gamers their first taste of the next instalment, we caught up with Yamauchi in London. Read on to find out what the roadmap for the game is from here, what he thinks of the competition (hint: he's not impressed) and where in the bloody hell that PSP version has got to.

Eurogamer: With Prologue now out the door, where do you go from here - straight into full development of the full version of GT5, or are there more steps along the way?

Kazunori Yamauchi: There will be an additional major update to Gran Turismo 5 Prologue before the game is complete.

Eurogamer: So is this a case of basically building the final game, block by block, as you go along?

Kazunori Yamauchi: We're not exactly making it in blocks... But we did have a few more things left undone in GT5 Prologue that we'll be adding along the way. Those would be community features - friends lists and things like that - and also adding damage to the game.

Eurogamer: When you sat down to develop Gran Turismo 5, what were the big things you wanted to do - the key, headline things that you wanted to change about the franchise?

Kazunori Yamauchi: Of course, the quality of games you can make on PS3 is so much higher - and we wanted to establish the benchmark of videogames by creating something that utilises all of its power. The other aspect that we wanted to focus on was building a community, between the user, us, and the automobile manufacturers, so that we could communicate and create a new space, a new world in that respect.

'Gran Turismo's Kazunori Yamauchi' Screenshot 2

Considerably faster than you.

Eurogamer: You said recently that damage would come "soon" - it's coming in GT5, then? We won't be waiting until GT6?

Kazunori Yamauchi: That's the plan, yes! It's actually really difficult to finish the quality that's possible with the PS3, in terms of the fine details - it's a lot harder than we first expected. A lot of things are very dependent on that, and we can't answer right away. However, we are planning to add the community features, and the damage, during Gran Turismo 5 Prologue.

Eurogamer: The online play modes you've provided in Prologue are pretty simple compared to what other racing games do - is improving that a big focus for you?

Kazunori Yamauchi: Yes, there'll be a lot of features added to that. We'll be adding a lot of the necessities, like being able to form your own car clubs within the game, or making racing teams in the game. Things like that, where the users can actually interface with each other, are something that we'll be adding.

Eurogamer: What's happened to the PSP version? It was announced a very long time ago - where has it gone?

Kazunori Yamauchi: We had been developing the PSP version, but the problem was that the PS3 version took much more time and effort than we had first imagined. So that's been delayed - I don't think we'll be able to make the end of this year for the PSP version, but we are working on it.

Eurogamer: In the process of developing GT5, have any of your thoughts on the PSP version changed?

Kazunori Yamauchi: That's definitely true. Once we experienced PS3 online and went through all of that, we came to the conclusion that PSP should not be a standalone product - it should be linked in to the world of Gran Turismo, linked with the PlayStation 3.

'Gran Turismo's Kazunori Yamauchi' Screenshot 3

Wonkyness X shiny = excitment.

Eurogamer: When you look at the games which have come out since GT4 - with Forza Motorsport probably being the most notable - do you see things that you'd like to do, things that have moved the genre forward? Or do you develop Gran Turismo in a vacuum, ignoring the competition?

Kazunori Yamauchi: The latter is actually exactly fitting, I think. We don't reference any other games when we're making Gran Turismo - it's purely based on what we want to achieve as a game.

Actually, I have difficulty playing other games for over five minutes. A lot of the low-level quality just stands out so much in other games that I can't stand them!

Eurogamer: It's a long way down the line, but since you're making a game which simulates reality, will you at some point reach a moment where you say, "This is good enough - this looks real, this feels real"?

'Gran Turismo's Kazunori Yamauchi' Screenshot 4

Points for the first person to give us the correct plural for Lexus.

Kazunori Yamauchi: You know, I've been asked the same question time and time again since the PSone - but every time the hardware goes up, there's been so much to do! I think this trend will continue. There'll always be a lot more to do.

We're actually very aware of things that we're still not able to do in the game - things that we'd like to keep continuing to add. That's something that I think will be ongoing, forever.

This game, we've called it GT5 Prologue - but it's not really a teaser of things to come. This is the best we can provide at this point in time. It's just that we don't consider it up to par, in terms of volume and things like that, to be called a full game by itself - by our standards, not by other people's standards. That's one thing we want to make clear for people.

Eurogamer: Given what you've just said, do you see Gran Turismo as your life's work? Is this what you're doing for the foreseeable future - or do you see yourself turning around some day and saying, "You know what, I want to make an RPG"?

Kazunori Yamauchi: Well, I've got a lot of ideas for one, so I'd like to be able to say some day, let's make an RPG... But there are a lot of things that we think are still insufficient in GT5. There's so much more to do still. I don't think it'll be any time soon that I'll be able to consider something like that!

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About Rob Fahey

Read more articles from Rob by visiting the Rob Fahey archive page.

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Comments (139) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Dizzy #1 4 years ago

    "We don't reference any other games when we're making Gran Turismo - it's purely based on what we want to achieve as a game."

    Well at least now we know where it all goes wrong.

  • Darren #2 4 years ago

    Kazunori Yamauchi said "Actually, I have difficulty playing other games for over five minutes. A lot of the low-level quality just stands out so much in other games that I can't stand them!"

    Drat... he's seen Forza Motorsport 2's graphics then! :p LOL

  • jaywalker3010 Verified Mastering Manager, Square Enix #3 4 years ago

    So theres going to be a GT5 Prologue 2..

    Really do wonder how long until this method of game development becomes standard.

    GTA V prologue Alpha Deluxe 2 (1/3 of the city open to use)

    GTA V prologue Beta Deluxe 3 (2/3 of city open etc)

    Whilst people will always argue you get enough `time` out of the games, i still think its wrong to release a product thats NOT complete.

  • Darren #4 4 years ago

    Hmmm, short interview... I'd liked to have known whether Polyphony are planning on fixing GT5 Prologue's framerate and tearing issues first before they start adding damage modelling, which is surely likely to make the game run even worst! :?

  • Dizzy #5 4 years ago

    >Drat... he's seen Forza Motorsport 2's graphics then! :p LOL

    He probably thinks when a car gets scratched that the textures are bad ;)
    Edited by 1 at 04/04/08 @ 14:08

  • Darren #6 4 years ago

    @jaywalker3010 - There's already a GT5 Prologue 2 as the patch updated the game to GT5 Prologue spec II! ;)

  • crazyhorse174 #7 4 years ago

    (For helping out, unsurprisingly, they gave him one.)

    Oooer! :p

  • pjmaybe #8 4 years ago

    Perfectionism eh? How about working on those V-Synch issues then Kazzers old chum instead of spending 3/4 of the game's development time dickarsing about in cars.

  • kobashi #9 4 years ago

    Kazunori Yamauchi said "Actually, I have difficulty playing other games for over five minutes. A lot of the low-level quality just stands out so much in other games that I can't stand them!"

    How about your own Shitty A.I and bumper car physics! Wonder if he has ever played GTR2 on the PC..

  • coojam #10 4 years ago

    I love the GT games and really respect the vision and work Polyphony put in, Yamauchi in particular, but working in a void...working insularly is very dangerous and frankly disturbing. I don't think he's saying it in a vindictive or "up his own arse way", he just sounds ignorant of what goes on outside.

    Also, Lexiiiii

  • Anthony_UK #11 4 years ago

    Get him!!! he dissed forza!

  • Altrezia #12 4 years ago

    I hope he sticks to what he says in this, as damage, friends, groups and proper online-racing will be ossum.

  • Altrezia #13 4 years ago

    Darren - What framerate issues? Not noticed ANY yet? I play at 1080i on a dell 27" monitor, and on a 42" tosh TV.. not one issue with framerate yet?

  • UncleLou #14 4 years ago

    Lexus

  • GitSomE_UK #15 4 years ago

    Why should he care about anything, he gets given top cars, has gazillions in cash, women throw themselves at his moody ways, has his own software house that prints more money... would you give a toss about the competition?

    Anyway, I bet he does play Forza or even Burnout paradise in his red carpeted, flock wallpapered dirty room.

    To him Forza is the pot noodle of driving games.

  • mossychops001 #16 4 years ago

    EG, Lexi?

    BACK OF THE NET!

  • gizmo #17 4 years ago

    Deluded.

    Shitty frame rates, No AI, no damage, on line racing not possible (remember that one?), tearing, total lack of collision physics?

    I take it this guy can't play HIS games for 5 seconds then?

  • Prodigy_BE #18 4 years ago

    /waiting for Race Driver GRID, a game with real damage and real A.I.

  • JYM60 #19 4 years ago

    I love you guys!

    (PD, not you cunts)

  • The_Programmer #20 4 years ago

    Well at least Forza is a full game. Its graphics might not be as good as GT5 but at least it has a decent online experience and doesn't take 20 years to bring out a demo.

    Notice when asked if damage is coming "soon" he says "That's the plan, yes!". That's political speak for it really being years away because you know what happens to the best layed plans.

  • 4thVariety #21 4 years ago

    Somehow I believe GT5 is a game for a middle-aged Japanese salaryman.
    * The menu music just makes me aggressive, I feel as if I am trapped in an elevator from hell.
    * The menu structure is convoluted and complicated.
    * I need to buy at least three cars to complete a license which would not be that bad if it didn't mean playing some totally unchallenging races over and over.
    * Can't Autosave be a background task? Must it halt the game like that?
    * How about background patch download as well?
    * Downloading the patch will take forever and has so far always crashed on me after one hour. I can ensure Sony that it's not my line that needs fixing. My 10Mbits work fine, thank you.
    * The lack of damage is just flat out boring
    * The feeling for speed is plain boring
    * The arcade mode is a joke. You still are stranded with your car and basically play Event mode without the rewards of it.
    * There is no AI in the game, they just drive along their predetermined line.

    This GT5 is a totally broken experience. It comes as no surprise, since the developer can't stand other successful racing games and is proud to do all the development without striving to meet other game's standards. There is only so much that Polyphony can accomplish themselves.

  • FooAtari #22 4 years ago

    Got to agree there gizmo. I'm a racing sim nut, owning many for the PC. But I don't really rate GT5 for the reasons you gave.

    If it's got next to no A.I it's not much of a sim.
    If it's got no damage it's not a sim
    Poor collision physics it's not much of a sim

    While the cars look good the tracks are often bland and lifeless

    As kobashi he said he needs to race something like GTR2

    GT just totally lacks charachter IMO, it's very a very clinical hot-lapping game. Here is a great looking car with some nice handling physics now drive it around this bland looking track with a bunch of drone cars. Just don't hit anything or you will ruin the immersion.

    But if people keep buying the same game time and time again thinking they are getting racing sim he's not going to change the formula.

  • GamesConnoisseur #23 4 years ago

    Kazunori Yamauchi said "Actually, I have difficulty playing other games for over five minutes. A lot of the low-level quality just stands out so much in other games that I can't stand them!"

    That is not very mature! Head in sand like others said, you do not design a new motor racing car without reference to other competitior, looking for in the terms of power, handling, looks and so forth! I had expected bit more from GT4P but accepted its 'antiqued non-feedback from interactions with other cars/environment' as its just a stepping stone to true sequel which will be GT5. Although by the time GT5 get released there would be more competitions out there.

    The power of the GT name is not going to be enough and need to ensure that they can better ALL the standards held by other racing/driving games and not in isolation.

  • gizmo #24 4 years ago

    To me, the GT games have traditionally cheated, the look of the cars and tracks have been ramped right up, because really, if you really think about it, it's a tech demo with a controllable car.

    No processing power is used for AI - they follow a pre-set line.
    No processing power is used for collisions - You can't shift the suckers off aforementioned line.
    If they do 'lose it' it feels pre-determined, not calculated.

    The interaction is virtually zero. You go about your business, they go about theirs. It really might as well be time trials.

  • prolific8 #25 4 years ago

    Wow. He's got a rather inflated opinion of himself for someone who made a demo.

  • Milk #26 4 years ago

    "Wow. He's got a rather inflated opinion of himself for someone who made a demo."

    I think he might have sold a few games too . . .

  • Moz #27 4 years ago

    Whilst people will always argue you get enough `time` out of the games, i still think its wrong to release a product thats NOT complete.

    The thing is that it is complete in a sence, you could easily add another 6 tracks to the game and then sell it at full price (obviously under a different name as GT is expected to be huge)

    It's also nice to know that GT5P will be getting expanded between now and the release of GT5 making the £25 price tag even nicer.

  • prolific8 #28 4 years ago

    "I think he might have sold a few games too . . ."

    I'm sure he did, a few years ago. Since then better games than his have come out, and his reaction is to badmouth them whilst himself producing a demo that they have the gall to charge £25 for. A fool and his money and all that...

  • bslsimes #29 4 years ago

    "It's just that we don't consider it up to par [...] to be called a full game by itself" - "but we are happy to sell it anyway"

  • Moz #30 4 years ago

    whilst himself producing a demo that they have the gall to charge £25 for. A fool and his money and all that...


    Humm well so far over 500,000 people have willingly paid for it so far and it's not even been released in the states yet. So from a business point of view its seems that they've done the right thing.

  • dsmx #31 4 years ago

    Lets all play the spot the bitter xbox fanboy competition.

  • Apologie #32 4 years ago

    With its signature realism and unrivaled physics, this highly anticipated precursor to Gran Turismo 5 continues to blur the line between simulation and reality.Polyphony Digital is the developer of the Gran Turismo franchise, led by creator Kazunori Yamauchi. Polyphony Digital is known for pushing the limits of the PlayStation hardware, and with its realistic graphics and physics, Gran Turismo 5: Prologue is no different. In addition to receiving CAD data from the auto manufacturers, they have taken thousands of photos to model each car (and track). As an example of the level of detail, a car in Gran Turismo 4 has the same number of polygons as a headlight in Gran Turismo 5: Prologue.

    Polyphony works even closer with the automotive industry to make sure that the cars look and drive just as they do in real life. In fact, Kazunori Yamauchi designed the on-board computer for the real Nissan GT-R. If you’re lucky to buy one when it releases, you will notice the Polyphony Digital logo when you start your car.

    Gran Turismo 5: Prologue features over 60 stunning cars – including vehicles by Lotus, Mitsubishi, Nissan and Ferrari for you to race on seriously realistic, real-life tracks: including the Eiger Nordwand, the London City Track and Suzuka – all rendered in incredible High Definition graphics. There's also all-new driving physics for the most lifelike driving experience ever and new, improved opponent artificial intelligence for the toughest race challenge yet.

    But that's not all – for the first time ever in the history of Gran Turismo, players will now be able to race online. Up to 16 players will be able to go head-to-head on some of the world's best racetracks on PlayStation Network. All you need to get racing is a broadband connection and PS3. Once you're up and revving, Global Online Rankings and the My Garage homepage feature will leave the world in n o doubt as to just who is the best at Gran Turismo.

    And then there's the Online Dealership, providing a wealth of information on cars and manufacturers and also Gran Turismo TV – a dedicated online channel available exclusively from PSN and packed with some of the greatest content that Motorsport, car manufacturers and TV has to offer.

    Key Features

    Race over 60 cars from worldwide automotive manufacturers, precisely modeled both inside and out.
    All-new interior dash view, featuring full driver animation and working gauges.
    Compete on 6 tracks with 12 total layouts, including Fuji Speedway, Suzuka Circuit, and for the first time ever, Daytona International Speedway.
    Online racing with up to 16 players, complete with detailed rankings, plus downloadable ghost cars and race replays of top racers.
    New online community features including Gran Turismo TV, featuring worldwide automotive and motorsport programming.
    Tune vehicle performance, from suspension and tires to gear ratio and engine modifications.
    Rendered in stunning 1080p at 60 frames per second with crisp, realistic lighting and camera effects (replays rendered in 1080p 30fps).

    ---------------------

    do you still think that these game is a steal and doesen't offer anything of value??? that the physics are shit??

  • Widge #33 4 years ago

    Is GT5p a demo, or are we just following the same format as GT4p -> GT4?

    If it is classified as a demo, its the most bloody jam packed demo that has ever been. Considering the EG decided for chop the Warhawk and Mass Effect DLC scores right down for providing basically not a hell of alot for your money, then this demo is well worth every £ you pay for it.

    I chose not to go for GT4p, I decided to wait for the main full featured disc, but I'm sure those who really wanted to dive in were more than satisfied with their results. Better to have some, than none.

  • Kryon #34 4 years ago

    Lol @ Apololol (Master of the cut 'n' paste)

    Anyway, yeah, I got GT bundled with my PS3, while it is pretty stunning visually, I don't think I'd choose to pay for it in its current state.

  • gizmo #35 4 years ago

    lol@apologie

    Sony marketing man says 'Suck it down', you suck. ;)

  • Darren #36 4 years ago

    @Altrezia - Go to the Arcade mode (if you haven't unlocked the actual Event yet) and try the London circuit at 1080p with 12 cars onscreen... it really is tear-riffic and there's plenty of slowdown when there's more than three cars on the screen. Happens on some of the other tracks too, again on packed corners. ;)

    Great game though and despite the issues it is technically impressive - name me a 1080p racing game that runs at 60 fps on the 360 that looks this good for example - it's a real showcase game for the PS3, it just needs polishing up a bit more, that's all.

  • Widge #37 4 years ago

    ^^^

    I'm with you on that, its just nice that people have the choice... (that was at Kryon)
    Edited by 1 at 04/04/08 @ 15:51

  • FooAtari #38 4 years ago

    @dsmx

    Maybe some of that. Forza 2 isn't that great either, Bad for different reasons. I wouldn't see GT5 is the game they are looking for though.

    But why is it if someone doesn't like a game they get labled a fanboy. How about they just don't rate the game because apart for some admittedly great looking cars and a huge list of cars the game isn't really all that. Sure it sells but so does NFS and 50 cent...

    I just get annoyed that people rate GT as a sim. But I'm not bitter. I have more than enough on the PC to never need to touch a poor mans sim.

    @Zero_Cool

    How is EG speaking shit? They are just printing what the man said... Not their fault if he is going to contradict himself.
    Edited by 1 at 04/04/08 @ 15:55

  • oreillymj #39 4 years ago

    While he's at it, they might update the generic tyre squeel sample that get used by every car as it understeers from the tiny Suzuki's to the Ferrari F1.

    And also change the car handling so that some car's actually oversteer. Mind you, I do play with the stability aids which is probably why the car doesn't spin.

    If the Nissan GTR in the game is an accurate reflection of the real car, then I don't think I'd fancy one. It 's a real tricky bastard to hold when braking heavily.

  • MaxiSleep #40 4 years ago

    Apologie ffs cut the damm paste

  • Darren #41 4 years ago

    @Zero_Cool - I think what Kazunori Yamauchi means is that he doesn't PLAY rival racing games but I'm fairly sure he's aware of them and has seen them in action.

  • SeesThroughAll #42 4 years ago

    Was Apologie banned already?

  • JonFE #43 4 years ago

    @Zero_Cool:

    Exactly which part of "When new games are released, of course we look at them. But it's not like I play them through thoroughly. So I can't really say... (Laughs) I just kind of look at it, play it a little bit and then pass it on..." (quoted from the link you provided) makes you come to your witty (or something else that rhymes with it) conclusion?

    In both interviews the man himself states that he's not paying much attention to the competition. In EG's interview he goes as far as accusing other games (without mentioning names of course) of low-level quality ("A lot of the low-level quality just stands out so much in other games that I can't stand them!";). Are you sure EG are full of shit?
    Edited by 1 at 04/04/08 @ 16:12

  • chronom4n #44 4 years ago

    rdexter, good point there, going back to gt4, i noticed that on some of the races, say the lemans track, you would be the ai and one them would be a cizetta and i used to be able to guarantee that he would spin off on the last set of chicanes every time. Shows that on some ways the ai is not is intelligent as the developers want you or me to believe.

  • T4RG4 #45 4 years ago

    God, that interview annoyed me. Stick up his arse.

    I've always played GT but this time around I fancied playing a good racing game, online, that gives a great sensation of driving with aides off, now rather than wait ages for GT to arrive. Polyphony just seem to be churning the same old game out. Don't give us all this 'we plan to add X,Y,Z' when a lot of it is already out there in other games.

    Great companies can slip down the pecking order.
    Edited by 1 at 04/04/08 @ 16:17

  • chronom4n #46 4 years ago

    guys i am not one to rip into others but what is with this apologie guy? i mean is this guy as dim as they come? i mean why does he not come up with his own argument without having to resort to cut and paste everything over and over again? he is taking up way too much space for anyones liking.

  • ronuds #47 4 years ago

    If the PS3 already had a Forza or PGR in their repotoire, would GT5P even be necessary?

    I feel bad for you guys...

  • kobashi #48 4 years ago

    Man I wish GTR2 was not cancelled for the 360. Trust there is so many people who own PS3's, 360's who have no idea that when it comes to realism this game beats Forza and GT hands down.

  • Jamaicangmr #49 4 years ago

    @ rounds

    With the GT franchise being the monster that it is i will have to on that logic alone say yes it would still be necessary. Even if you feel that Forza and or PGR are better it doesn't change the fact that for millions the GT series is what car racers are measured buy. Whether it's graphics or gameplay and GT5:p has improved in both areas. Thus even though it's not the final GT5 it's still going to be chart marker for car racers. Mark my word.

  • monkie_king #50 4 years ago

    /clears throat

    Plolyphony Digitlol.

    Eyethangyew.

  • ruttyboy #51 4 years ago

    You do all realise that *a lot* of the people who buy Gran Turismo a) wouldn't enjoy real car physics anyway and b) only care about the licensed car models.

  • Moz #52 4 years ago

    @ronuds

    but GT is different to Forza and PGR.

    I really like PGR and GT but would always want both as PGR is more arcady then GT.

    Where as I personally don't like Forza as I feel they sacrificed to much of the look for more sim to my my eyes it's a truly ugly game.

    So despite having access to Forza and PGR as I have a 360 I still bought GT5P because I prefer it's stlye. So regarless it is a necessary realse for some people

  • Jamaicangmr #53 4 years ago

    @ kobashi

    GTR2 is from what i understand a painstaking simulater which is great for the most hardcore of car racing gamers. GT series however has to strike a balance it has to be accessable to both casual and hardcore. This is evident by the Polyphony implimenting seperate car physics. Unlike the GTR2 fanbase where most are hardcore majority of GT fans are casual players who enjoy the series for it's accessability and realizim. I think this is where the GT series has shown it's relivance and sustained it's popularity.

  • kobashi #54 4 years ago

    You do all realise that *a lot* of the people who buy Gran Turismo a) wouldn't enjoy real car physics anyway and b) only care about the licensed car models.

    Very True.. I have friends who only care about driving 700+ cars with great graphics. I try and explain how the A.I and physics are still not right and they really don't give a damn!

  • Putty-Man #55 4 years ago

    I was really hoping GT would be my excuse to HAVE to buy a PS3, but the more I read about it the more worried I get. It certainly lacks a few critical features from other games.

    "Things like that, where the users can actually interface with each other, are something that we'll be adding."

    In game chat, he must think this a fantastic innovation!

  • Moz #56 4 years ago

    Who here has actually tried GT5P with the pro physics turned on? So far i've only played with Standard and was wondering how much of a difference it makes?


    edit: @Putty Man what need to be remember is that xbox games have had alot mroe experinence with online feature so it's going to take a while for PS to catch up, there's alot of code to built up.
    Edited by 1 at 04/04/08 @ 16:40

  • b0bb1ns #57 4 years ago

    I've played with pro physics on quite a bit, but I don't think it makes it any more realistic. The car I own in real life is in GT5 prologue and if I'm doing about 45 miles an hour, steer a bit and press the accelerator a bit harder the tyres don't start squealing and the back end doesn't start trying to overtake the front end anything like as much as they do in the game.

    Don't get me wrong though - I'm enjoying playing the game a lot - it's just that the physics aren't that realistic. The car models, interior, engine sounds and speeds in each gear are bang on though.

  • Widge #58 4 years ago

    Doesn't GT5p have different physics models for different levels of drivers?
    I believe if you want the full on physics stuff, you have to plump for the professional setting?

    guh, just noticed someone has mentioned it above.

    I've been sitting in a GT5p thread and someone who has visibly banged Forza 2's drum on the forum for ages says that with the pro driving settings on, it is by far the best driving experience he has ever had.

    HOWEVER, this is with the G25 wheel in effect.

  • FooAtari #59 4 years ago

    "You do all realise that *a lot* of the people who buy Gran Turismo a) wouldn't enjoy real car physics anyway and b) only care about the licensed car models."

    Agreed ruttyboy thats half the problem with GT...

    @Jamaicangmr

    I agree with what you say, except that many believe GT is a proper sim and as real as it gets. This is just down to ignorance of course. But even ignoring proper sims, there are other games with decent damage models and online racing modes. Why anyone puts up with GT's half assed online, lack of damage and crap AI is beyond me.

  • ronuds #60 4 years ago

    @ jamaicangmr

    Fair enough...

    My thought is that if the PS3 did have Forza (or an equivalent of), releasing a prologue for another racing sim would be laughed at. The same as if an FPS prologue were released for the 360.

  • kobashi #61 4 years ago

    Some people would argue that this game is exactly the same as the PS1 versions in terms of game play

  • FooAtari #62 4 years ago

    Yup I'd argue that. Little has changed. Better graphics, more detailed car models.

    But thats what GT is all about. Style over substance,

  • Feanor #63 4 years ago

    The car physics and handling are exactly the same as the PS1 versions, yup.

  • steoc4 #64 4 years ago

    "My thought is that if the PS3 did have Forza (or an equivalent of), releasing a prologue for another racing sim would be laughed at. The same as if an FPS prologue were released for the 360."

    GT4: Prologue came out on PS2 at a time when it had pretty much the strongest games catalogue of any console in history. It was still well worth the purchase.

    The amount of overwhelming negativity in any Gran Turismo comment threads always amazes me, when the games are universally praised by critics, sell brilliantly and are much enjoyed by both myself and anyone I know who plays them.

  • Jamaicangmr #65 4 years ago

    @ FooAtari

    "I agree with what you say, except that many believe GT is a proper sim and as real as it gets. This is just down to ignorance of course. But even ignoring proper sims, there are other games with decent damage models and online racing modes. Why anyone puts up with GT's half assed online, lack of damage and crap AI is beyond me."

    While i understand your complaint i can't agree entirely. I've only played the demo and i've notices improvments in the A.I. they are more challenging specially around a corner and based on reviews i've read they seem to share my views on A. I. Damage is said to be on it's way as early as this fall. So taht shouldn't be an issue for past that. What many seem to over look is that this is a prologue nad not GT5. Yes many do see the GT series as the king of the hill when it comes to realizm even without damge. The main factors at work here are,

    1. Sony/Playstation - The fact that this is a know franchise which for many was their introduction into car sims and it has been one of the biggest games in our industries on the most poplular platfroms by one of our most trusted names.

    2. Developer credibility - With every release of a GT game it's always been an improvment on it's prequal. Which for a lover of the series doesn't incline one to stray away from home.

    3. Marketing - There is an old sayin "If you build it they will come" However marketing adds a next demension to this saying. "If you Market it MORE will come" Not to say other games don't market but with the type of marketing and budget Sony puts behind the GT series not many other publisher of simular games can match or surpass.
    Edited by 2 at 04/04/08 @ 19:07

  • rotmm #66 4 years ago

    @rdexter

    "Style over substance my ass.

    The game has it's flaws (which were perfectly known upfront), but the drawing distance, the depth of field and the lighting effects more than make up for it."

    Ok, so you've covered the "style" there. Now explain where the "substance" comes in.

  • chacha #67 4 years ago

    Have been playing this game now for a week and am completely and utterly disappointed. The graphics are no better than PGR4 (a 6 month old game) and the physics and AI are light years behind Forza Motorsport let alone FM2.

    I actually feel cheated for some reason, and feel like returning my ps3. Does anyone know what the return policy is for Toys R Us. I have given it time but after a week of the ps3 i just feel i have no need as the 360 provides me with everything i need.... the one game i hoped would change the way i feel was GT5 but i have been bitterly disappointed.

  • Jamaicangmr #68 4 years ago

    @ Rounds

    "My thought is that if the PS3 did have Forza (or an equivalent of), releasing a prologue for another racing sim would be laughed at. The same as if an FPS prologue were released for the 360."

    I agree 100% however were talking about Gran Tourismo not "Another racing sim" and thats where our opinions differ. Put it this way Microsoft could easily charge $40 for a Halo prologue with a few multiplayer maps and it would sell on sole basis that it's Halo. Well it's the same thing for Gran Tourismo many where waiting for GT5 before buying a PS3. Just like many did for PS2 and with that type of pull is why Gran Tourimo Prologue isn't just "Another racing sim". Only franchises that could do this with any success are Gran Tourismo, Final Fantasy, Halo, Metal Gear and Zelda. Any franchise outside of that would be over looked by the industry.

  • DjFlex52 #69 4 years ago

    The amount of overwhelming negativity in any Gran Turismo comment threads always amazes me, when the games are universally praised by critics, sell brilliantly and are much enjoyed by both myself and anyone I know who plays them.

    @steoc4

    same with the Halo series :)

  • yagisencho #70 4 years ago

    "We don't reference any other games when we're making Gran Turismo - it's purely based on what we want to achieve as a game."

    I suppose that partially explains why GT continues to be a 'driving simulator' and not a racing game. If I want to drive, I'll head out to the car in my garage. If I want to race, I'll play a racing game (not GT). Congratulations Yamauchi-san. Your games are perfectly boring.

  • Apologie #71 4 years ago

    @chacha

    disappointed. The graphics are no better than PGR4 (a 6 month old game) and the physics and AI are light years behind Forza Motorsport let alone FM2.

    I actually feel cheated for some reason, and feel like returning my ps3. Does anyone know what the return policy is for Toys R Us. I have given it time but after a week of the ps3 i just feel i have no need as the 360 provides me with everything i need.... the one game i hoped would change the way i feel was GT5 but i have been bitterly disappointed.

    --------------------------

    Man, you are utterly ridiculous...
    Edited by 1 at 04/04/08 @ 19:52

  • Les #72 4 years ago

    "You do all realise that *a lot* of the people who buy Gran Turismo a) wouldn't enjoy real car physics anyway and b) only care about the licensed car models."

    I'd argue that most of the people on the planet interested in a video game involving cars would hate real car physics and fake models. There's nothing wrong with catering for that public (and makes a lot of sense financially). You don't like it you don't buy it, that's the beauty of capitalism. The beauty of free speech is that you can still bitch about it... :p

  • Ryze #73 4 years ago

    Points for the first person to give us the correct plural for Lexus.

    '...in diamond neclaces, stretch Lexuses, the sex is just immaculate from the..." - Notorious B.I.G.

    Lexii?

  • miiiguel #74 4 years ago

    Interesting to see the atitude diferences between this dude, and Haze's. The latter admits the merits of other developers, this one says he can't stand them, because he's soooo good!

    chacha: a friend of mine returned his for the same reason for a Vaio, in a Worten shop. I think all retailers do that - some kinda EU directive, I guess.
    Edited by 4 at 04/04/08 @ 21:01

  • chacha #75 4 years ago

    Thanks for your help miiguel..... i can do with a new laptop

  • Nostromo13 #76 4 years ago

    nice one Eurogamer, "yeah, i've already been asked this question a billion times already"…

  • DjFlex52 #77 4 years ago

    Wonder why no one is answering your stupid comments, headbog?
    Most people put you on ignore so you're ranting to yourself :D

    At least Apologie makes me laugh once in a while.

  • DjFlex52 #78 4 years ago

    "I'll just set up another account and repost it then."

    @headbog

    and I thought you already did that, headbog...headdog...headgob...headglob etc

    oops, my mistake....everyone read it...they agreed with you...please, no new accounts ;)

  • FooAtari #79 4 years ago

    Swam I am one of those critizing GT5. Yet I am not comming for an Xbox users perspective.

    I like how you said;
    "GT5p is better than competing CONSOLE racers of a similar nature"

    So your just going to ignore other platforms so you don't have to admit that as sim GT5p is not the best available? way to add to your credibility, not that you have any.

    "Forza 2 may have limited damage modeling, but it doesn't run at 60fps at 1080p, and doesn't feature nearly so detailed cars."

    While I don't rate Forza. AI, damage and realistic collision effects is far more important in a race than graphics, Although admittedly 60fps is very important, 1080p not so much. I'm playing to race not admire the bumper of the car in front of me.

    Like I said before, style over substance...

    And your argument for poor AI is that people will not play online if it's that good? give me a break... That's one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard.

    @Jamaicangmr
    I agree 100% however were talking about Gran Tourismo not "Another racing sim" and thats where our opinions differ. Put it this way Microsoft could easily charge $40 for a Halo prologue with a few multiplayer maps and it would sell on sole basis that it's Halo. Well it's the same thing for Gran Tourismo many where waiting for GT5 before buying a PS3. Just like many did for PS2 and with that type of pull is why Gran Tourimo Prologue isn't just "Another racing sim". Only franchises that could do this with any success are Gran Tourismo, Final Fantasy, Halo, Metal Gear and Zelda. Any franchise outside of that would be over looked by the industry.

    That's what hype and marketing does for you. GT has got itself into a position (like those other games) that they could develop an average game and it would still sell. Most people have decided they love the game before they even play it. And for some strange reason they would never admit said game sucks if it were to turn out that way


    @rdexter
    Style over substance my ass.

    The game has it's flaws (which were perfectly known upfront), but the drawing distance, the depth of field and the lighting effects more than make up for it. I got F1CE and 'Dirt' and even though they are both great implementations of their respective areas (and have damage) it is hard to accept their somewhat fuzzy graphics and dumbed down physics after you've sat in a virtual cockpit in GTP5.

    As rotmm said where is the substance? I can't believe you chose DiRT and F1CE as your comparison for physics. Go play Live for Speed and tell me which game feels dumbed down...
    Edited by 2 at 05/04/08 @ 00:08

  • FooAtari #80 4 years ago

    erm Swam

    I have been comparing GT5p to PC sims. I have only compared GT5p to other console racers when someone else has brought them up. Otherwise I have compared it to PC sims. And it being on a console doesn't mean other games don't exist on other foramts. It's still fair comparisons.

    Yes I do have a Xbox 360 but seeing as I have the following racing sims on the PC;

    Grand Prix Legends
    GTR2
    GT Legends
    RACE 07
    RACE 06
    Grand Prix 2
    Richard Burns Rally
    rFactor
    Nascar Racing Season 2003
    ARCA Sim Racing

    and a Logitech G25

    I have no need or desire to have a racing sim on the 360, PS3 or Wii as the games above craps on any single racing sim available on a console. I am not in the slightest bit envious of GT5p. Just because I own a 360 doesn't mean I'm out to make everything related to the PS3 some pathetic flamewar.

    Finally, I didn't say graphics were not important. I just said other factors were more important in a so called sim.

    You are pretty good and putting words in other peoples mouths
    Edited by 5 at 05/04/08 @ 00:06

  • Jamaicangmr #81 4 years ago

    @ FooAtari

    "That's what hype and marketing does for you. GT has got itself into a position (like those other games) that they could develop an average game and it would still sell. Most people have decided they love the game before they even play it. And for some strange reason they would never admit said game sucks if it were to turn out that way"

    Marketing is hype and a good marketing campain does just that hype the product thats being marketed. There is nothing negative about marketing your product properly. However GT isn't an average game in my opinion anyway maybe it is in your opinion and thats ok as it's yours. Most who have decided as you say they love the game before even playing it do so with good reasons. As i said before the petigree that the GT series has justifies the praise it gets by the franchise lovers.

    I can't sit here and debt each of our opinions as that will get us nowhere in the end. The GT series is for most the only driving simulator for their money. Thats thanks to alot of factors many of which you probly wont appreciate but it doesn't change the fact that to most including me Sony and Polyphony has always done a great job developing and marketing a great driving simulator. GTR2 is available yet most will still flock to GT because of it's;

    1. Familiarity
    2. Concistancy
    3. Quailtiy
    4. Accessablitity
    5. Fun factor
    6.Breath taking benchmark visuals
    etc...

    When one plays a GT game you get the sense that this is a labour of love and it doesn't feel like just another car racer. You feel the manufacturers input in the game. You see the excessive reasearch that has gone into the project. You actually can reasearch a car you intend to buy in the game itself and thats one way it's presented. "The Real driving simulator" As a gamer hardcore or casual when you play a Gran Tourismo you feel the weight behind that slogon. The game feels like it's about the cars and thats what a car simulation is supposed to be. That is alot more than i can say for most other racers.
    Edited by 1 at 05/04/08 @ 00:20

  • SniperZoz #82 4 years ago

    pfft.... man he's stuck up eh!

    C'mon you gotta give credit where it's due ... sure GT5 looks better - but that's it really all the other "features" are catered for in Forza2 (not to mention it's a full game and all) - I'm not saying i don't like GT5P. But really all this game demostrates is what a hard time devs (even the really good ones) are having with the ps3 - this is what they could come up with till now (which is great mind you), they had to stop gt-psp and the full GT5 game will come out in 2009! Cripes ... that means more Forza2 for me ... and probably Grid !!

    And don't you believe for a second they developed this w/o looking at Forza2 - they would be dumb not too!

    EDIT - just some extra info ... not that it matter much as the game looks great (and so does Forza2 to me) BUT GT5P runs in pseudo-1080p .. the actual res is 960x1080, and then it's streched on the x-axis. The result is good! but the pixel count is only 12% higher than 720p - real 1080p is 125% higher. Get your facts strait!
    Edited by 1 at 05/04/08 @ 00:28

  • FooAtari #83 4 years ago

    Jamaicangmr we should just agree to disagree I guess :)

    I never said marketing your product was a bad thing. I just get annoyed when people fall for hype, this is particularly common in games industry, but anyway.

    I think you make a good point here

    The game feels like it's about the cars and thats what a car simulation is supposed to be. That is alot more than i can say for most other racers.

    GT to me is effectively a car collecting and time trail game. That's fair enough. As a racing or motorsport nut thats not enough for me. If it is for you thats great. But taht doesn't excuse GT's short comings.[/i]

    These points;

    1. Familiarity
    2. Concistancy
    3. Quailtiy
    4. Accessibility
    5. Fun factor
    6.Breath taking benchmark visuals
    etc...

    are pretty much void when you consider what it lacks. Fun factor for example is removed when I bounce off the wall and don't have a scratch the handling of the car is not effected. Yeah they have promised damage but currently it doesn't exist in the game and until it does exist their promises mean little.

    Consistancy? Well you got that bang on. They have consistently released effectively the same game for 10 years now.

    Accessibility. Well I can appreciate that, but it's a sim or it isn't. If you make changes to appeal to a broadmarket and dumb the physics down, its not longer a sim.

    Yeah I agree it looks good, but good looks don't make up for short comings in gameplay

    It just seems to me you are ignoring what has always been wrong with GT. If we all do that nothing will ever change.

    I have never said GT was a bad game. It's just not all that.
    Edited by 4 at 05/04/08 @ 00:32

  • Ryze #84 4 years ago

    Fanboy tosser awards goes to:

    - swam

    - Headbog

    Really - how much do Sony pay you idiots. Blinkered fools. Just enjoy the game and shut the fuck up with your shite talk.

    You don't really have a clue, but you're happy to stay stupid and shout about it.

    The definition of a fool.

  • Jamaicangmr #85 4 years ago

    @ FooAtari

    Am in no way ignoring as you say whats wrong with the series. What am doing however is trying to offer you some peice of mind as to why the GT series is what it is to so many people. You gloss over the points i've made to point out one aspect with the series you don't find to be fun. Thats in my opinion is an unrealistic way to to view the series. I think the main issue here is you've done the same that you say GT lovers have done, which is decided you hate the game even before you've played it. Lets not forget that this is the Prologue and not GT5 only an introduction. Yes the updates promised aren't here asyet so i see why you can't logically discuss them. However as they have been offically announced shouldn't that ease some concern atleast until it's released? That way we can all decide if it's good or not right? Well thats just my views it's ok if you rather take a different approach than i.

    I think your right a stand down is needed as we both draw valid points. For while you see GT's consistancy to mean they consistantly release the same game i strongly disagree. Rather than go into a nit picking match i'll just accept that PC simulators like GTR2 are more your cup of tea and because of that we will never see eye to eye on this issue.

    It was fun have this lil debt with you, you're proof that it is possible to have an inteligent discussion on this site without resourting to name calling and finger pointing.

    To you i raise my glass FooAtari.

  • myke6699 #86 4 years ago

    i would not put FM2 is the same league as GT5P. it's a shit of a game- looks like one, plays like one and only shitheads would even stand in support of that abomination. Argghh. even the thought of the game makes the back of my neck stands. i'd rather spend eternity in hell than 10 minutes with forza2. oh, even the name, make my skin crawls. the box art- atrocious. something you would see from a third rate publisher. if i want to drive a toy car from planet cartoon- i'd play mario kart. at least the game is a thousand time more fun than this meek attempt at simulation. and may your xbox rot in RROD hell. i said my peace, brother. i bid you goodbye and nighty night.

  • FooAtari #87 4 years ago

    @Swam

    Out of those 10 games I have listed 2 are F1 1 is Rally. So again get your fats right...

    XBOT? I have been thinking of selling mine for a while now. My preferred platform is PC (and before you make some weak connection between Windows and the Xbox I mainly use Linux). I couldn't care less if the Xbox has a decent sim or not I really couldn't. Which part of that is so hard to understand for you? I'm not so immature as to think everyone who doesn't agree with me must a fanboy, or that everything needs to be some kind of flame war.

    But while I don't own a PS3 and have no intentions of buying one the near future I don't really have anything against it. I always hope there is at least three players in the console market as competition is good for us gamers. It ensures prices stay somewhat reasonable and that hardware continues to develop. I'm well beyond some petty fanboy flame wars and have better things to do than "defend" some multi national corporation that doesn't give a shit about me as long as I keep spending my money.

    And I'm not even going to bother with the cost of ownership on PC's, especially where sims are concerned. It really isn't that much, but can't be bothered arguing.

    My beef with GT is simply it's claims to be a sim when it is far from it. And why despite it's many short comings people continue to praise it likes it's the second coming.

    If that makes me an XBOT (what a pethatic term that is anyway) then fair enough


    @Jamaicangmr

    I never resort to name calling or finger pointing. I often get more worked up over people like my good friend swam here which then causes me to sometimes be a bit harsher on the game than I would normally be.

    I see why people like GT so much. And it does do some things well. I appreciate the points your making. I didn't mean to gloss over them it was late (it still is) and I was at work (still am) and I just picked what came to mind first. But for certain things to not be fixed that I feel should have been added in GT4 annoys me, and I can't over look them this time. (and it doesn't matter what platform the game is on I'd be saying the same swam, Forza 2 got loads of things wrong to (for the sake of trying to prove a point))

    You make a good point that this isn't the final GT5 and I hope the missing features are added before it's release.

    And while we are patting each other on the back, swam you should look to Jamaicangmr on how to put forward a reasoned argument.

    Maybe I should go out and buy one tomorrow with GT5p so I can then rip into it with complete authority :)

  • Kryon #88 4 years ago

    Headbog (A.K.A swam), please do STFU for goodness sake! You're not going to convince the world to worship Sony in the way that you do so why not just give up. Yes GT5P looks pretty amazing visually (better than any other console racer to date imo) BUT it has it's flaws so don't try and make out it's the best racer ever made because it isn't. I actually just use the game as a kind of system showcase for when friends come round (and the visuals usually do leave them open mouthed) but playability-wise it's like driving a bumper-car imo.

    Kazunori Yamauchi and headbog am cry :'(

  • kungfool #89 4 years ago

    Seems to me like Japanese developers are all stuck in the late 90s, thinking that they're kings of the world when actually they're rehashing the same old out-dated technology and ideas over and over again. See: Ninja Gaiden II, the Tekken series, Gran Turismo (which I once loved - back on the bloody PSone!), and Devil May Cry. The only Japanese studio I see trying to do anything contemporary and interesting is Capcom.

  • speedsix #90 4 years ago

    "Actually, I have difficulty playing other games for over five minutes. A lot of the low-level quality just stands out so much in other games that I can't stand them!"

    That is genuinely hilarious considering how far Forza has surpassed the GT series. How deluded can you get?

    A few points, correct me if I'm wrong but GT5 isn't 1080p, it's 1280x1080 which is actually 66% of the pixels of 'proper' 1080p. Secondly, even if people think £25 is reasonable value for the amount of content in the prologue you're still paying for a lot of content twice assuming you purchase the full game. The final game then works out over 60% more expensive than any other game.
    Edited by 2 at 05/04/08 @ 10:56

  • Moz #91 4 years ago

    Was playing again last and i really don't see what the problem is? If you watch a real race all the drivers follow the driving line unless they are over taking or messing up. And that's exactly what the AI in GT5P does, the AI messes up corners quite often.

    I think alot of people problems with the AI is that it drives like profetional driver drives, not how gamers drive in a game.

  • WinterSnowblind #92 4 years ago

    For those endlessly praising GT5, I have to point out some of it's more serious flaws. The environments/courses. To put it bluntly, they look like crap. They're still using outdated tricks to cover certain parts of the courses, so that the system is using less power for them. This wouldn't be a problem if a lot of these shortcuts weren't so jarring. May I draw your attention to Exhibit A. The backgrounds.

    [link url=http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h203/Winte rSnowblind/1316_0002.jpg
    ]http://i6 5.photobucket.com/albums/h203/W...[/link]

    Hmm. Those mountains don't quite look right, do they? Ah, I see. It's actually a static image, not actual 3D modeled mountains. You could literly switch in any random photo there. But I'm not just trying to trash the game, the actual car models and a lot of the scenery does look very, very nice. The car models are easily the best seen in any racing game, but I still don't think it's anything to be kicking up such a fuss about. As we've seen from almost all 360/PS3 racers, the graphics look superb across the board. PGR4 and DiRT, games that were released last year are pretty close to matching this as it is.

    And in terms of gameplay, I'd consider Forza to be "the real driving simuator". It's a lot more accurate in almost every way, plus offers far more customisation and tweaking options. Of course, it looked like a badly ported original Xbox game, but if the graphics are all that's important to you, then this is a pointless arguement anyway.

  • FooAtari #93 4 years ago

    Swam I have actually been looking into a buy a PS3 today. I mainly use my XBOX as a media center now, a PS3 can do that and play BR so I have been looking into buying one.

    But whatever you seem incapable to accept that not everyone has some kind of strange emotional attachment to a piece of plastic and electronics. I see good reasons to own all system I just don't have the time to play all the games I'd buy if I had them all. I believe buy whatever system has the games you want to play, no biased there.

    It's not possible to have a reasoned conversation with you just resort to throwing insults around and disregard anyone that doesn't agree with you, so say hello to my ignore list I'm sure you will enjoy fighting with the other fanboys in there.

  • Kryon #94 4 years ago

    @swam (fake headbog)

    "FooTari, Kryon and so on, are just lazy XBOTS or PCBOTs who cannot accept that a game that they havnet played, on a system they dont like or care for, might actually be worth the hype. "

    I wouldn't have spent £300 on the system if I didn't want one now would I, admittedly the death of HD DVD had a lot to do with my decision to purchase a PS3. When you claim that we "don't like or care" for the PS3 then I'll admit I don't "care" for the system in the same way that you do (but normal people don't tend to worship a toy or its creators in the same way that you do)...But I do own the system and game and I will happily cane you ten times over at it online anytime you like.

    Also, here's a thought, if you needed to change your UID because 99% of other users have ignored you, this should tell you two things.

    1 - Either 99% of people here are "XBOTS" and are totally biased or you're just a nobster who nobody wants to listen to regardless of their console of choice (here's a clue, it's the latter).

    2 - Why bother changing your UID at all if you just intend to carrying on spouting the same utter nonsense as before? People will just ignore you once again.. Pointless, no?

  • Kryon #95 4 years ago

    @swam

    "Your answers to comments about PS3 games prove this. "

    Erm..OK.. I'm sure I just made this statement -

    "GT5P looks pretty amazing visually (better than any other console racer to date imo)"

    It seems you conveniently forgot or have selective reading abilities. You can't even make one single post without using the word "XBOT".. Either you're the biggest wind up merchant of all time or you actually have problems man...Seriously.

  • WinterSnowblind #96 4 years ago

    The term "fanboys" and Xbot inparticular in this case have lost almost all meaning because of people like you who throw these terms around at everyone who doesn't agree with you. Infact, Headbog and Swam fit the description of fanboy more than anyone else here.

    Fanboy: An arrogant person who goes into an outburst every time something he likes is questioned. Fanboys usually acuse others of being fanboys.

    And seeing it in motion doesn't make the fact the backgrounds are images any less blatent. It still looks rather jaring, and all of the footage you posted is from replays, not actual ingame footage. All of these racing games use numerous effects and filters to make the game look significantly better during replays. The Gamespot comparasion you posted was particuarly disgraceful for this, almost every single image that was posted of GT5 was not ingame and/or publicity shots, where aswith PGR it seems as if the poster was going out of his way to find poor shots.

    I won't try to pretend PGR is the better looking game, because it's certainly not, however that was an extremely biased comparasion. And of course it doesn't take into account the fact that PGR has full whether effects, rain, snow and dirt that effect all the vehicles and build up during the races, as well as the cars becoming damaged.
    Edited by 1 at 05/04/08 @ 14:08

  • IneptPercy #97 4 years ago

    After playing GT5P it a while it felt a bit soulless, I do think the AI let it down. As mentioned there has been some tricks uesd in the background etc which I found a little distracting when first noticed but soon forgot about.

    As for the comparison to Forza to me the only thing it has better is the looks, with that Forza does more than enough to be pleasing to the eye and doesn't hinder gameplay.

    I prefer PGR4 but I believe this will be because I lean towards arcade racing and I believe PGR has got the perfect blend or sim, arcade and looks for it to be very well balance but I can see how this would appeal to everybody.

    Screw this I prefer Ridge Racer, not realistic in anyway, but hey you get to slide cars a mad ways and its fun!

    Have we forgot we play games for fun?

  • markypants #98 4 years ago

    So far I've been really disappointed with GT5P :-(

    It looks great and I really like some of the menu touches they've added (the Audi-esque car coming at you out of the dark after you've bought it), but there are quite a few moments where it feels like the franchise has remained stuck in the past. Of course these things are damage, collisions (which are ridiculous) and A.I. I know they have supposedly worked on the A.I. but I can't really notice a huge leap forward.

    I have an Xbox & PS3 and as much as I've enjoyed seeing GT5P's lovely graphics, I'm finding myself playing FM2 again. Maybe the updates will address these niggles, but I have to say that it's a shame more hasn't evolved since GT4.

  • miiiguel #99 4 years ago

    In a nutshell, by headbogs entire family, who seem to be actually posting: anyone who owns a xbox is an xbot. if you want to be a "beter person" you have to post a lot in the most ridicule way about PS3 - that even applies if you have one, or even if you actually like to play with it.

    Its the last breath of a dying breed. This ridicule "war" is definetly dead.

  • FooAtari #100 4 years ago

    Pretty well put WinterSnowblind

    Im gonna guess Swam replied to my last post as yours appeared directly below mine, fortunatly I can't see it.

    I bought a GT5p PS3 bundle today. As I thought it' ok. But if anything was actually changed from GT4 except for visuals my name is Kazunori Yamauchi

  • Kryon #101 4 years ago

    headbog is a total imbecile tbh. Very similar to Les...OK for comedy value until they get boring that is...

  • KreyAtiv #102 4 years ago

    "We don't reference any other games when we're making Gran Turismo - it's purely based on what we want to achieve as a game.
    Actually, I have difficulty playing other games for over five minutes. A lot of the low-level quality just stands out so much in other games that I can't stand them!"
    Well he let the cat out of the bag with that one. Probably has difficulty playing other games for five minutes as he has to rush back and jot down more things to add to GT5 after playing them. Like skid marks, damage and more realistic sound .

  • dsmx #103 4 years ago

    I still fail to see why you need to render 3d mountains what possible benefit does that have? When your driving in a race with 15 other people around you at 150 mph the last thing your going to do is look at the mountains around you. I would rather they spent there time on the cars and immediate trackside objects, you know that stuff that you actually pay attention to while driving.

  • miiiguel #104 4 years ago

    That's a bit back to the 80s..., I mean since Outrun devs tend to try to deliver the whole experience, which includes the landscape. I never drove at 150mph, the most I did was 220 km/h ( around 135mph) but, and although all my atention was on the round, if someone removed the scenery, itd be weird.

  • dsmx #105 4 years ago

    I'm not saying remove the scenery, I'm saying my bother rendering the mountains in 3d when all your ever going to get is a fleeting glance?

  • Kryon #106 4 years ago

    Nah, the more graphic detail the better imo, even if it only adds the tiniest bit more realism then it's all good. It's just natural progression and it's important imo, otherwise we'd still be playing games with PS1 graphics (although I know many a loyal Wii fan has no problem with this, I'm a graphics whore and I personally do)

  • Les #107 4 years ago

    "I'm not saying remove the scenery, I'm saying my bother rendering the mountains in 3d when all your ever going to get is a fleeting glance?"

    Of course it's silly but the haters will grab every straw they can. Put them on your ignore list and make this a better place. For you and for me and the entire human race... ;)

  • Kryon #108 4 years ago

    Les, how is appreciating advancement in visuals (however small) being a 'hater'? Are you even following the conversation, or?

  • dsmx #109 4 years ago

    I'm only for advancement in visuals if it enhances the game, what possible advancement does 3d mountains give us if you are hardly ever looking at them? It would be like rendering every room inside a building you can only see for a few seconds in a game, nice to do but totally pointless in practice.
    Edited by 1 at 06/04/08 @ 12:05

  • m0thr4 #110 4 years ago

    I am actually quite enjoying GT5P; however I have noticed the following (you decide whether or not they are flaws or shortcomings):

    1. In some tracks (Eiger Norwand), the spectators are properly modelled in 3D and move, but in others, they are just stationary 2D bitmaps (the speedway track whose name I have forgotten). This is horribly inconsistent and makes the replays look crap. I would rather race around a track with no spectators at all than cardboard cut outs.

    2. The sound effects are not particularly convincing. The tyre noises are particularly unrealistic, but the biggest problem is with the engine noises. None of the cars I have obtained so far (e.g. Golf GTI, Focus ST, Z4 3.0i, WRX STi) sound anything like the real thing. I didn't much care for Forza 2, but the engine and tyre squeal noises are far more convincing.

    3. Regarding the AI of opponents... you can quite easily use the opponent cars to pinball around corners, as the barely move when you slam into them at top speed. I use this technique on Eiger Nordwand to get round the tight corners... drive in at full speed on the inside of an AI opponent and use them as a brake... then drive off again. Thought this was supposed to be a driving simulator though.

    4. Changing between cars is ridiculously convoluted. There are all these stupid rules like "you can't sell a car you are currently using" ... why the fuck not? I've paid money for this game... don't tell me what I can't fucking do; design the user interface so I can do what I need to do to play the fucking game. Honestly, I don't think I've ever played another racing game that makes the business of switching cars so laboriously tedious. If you want to sell your car, let it warn you and then switch to one of your other cars. If you have the wrong car for a race, let it allow you to select the right one without having to go back 3 layers (and at least one loading screen) to the main menu again. Bad UI design = lazy or stupid developers.

  • Kryon #111 4 years ago

    @dsmx

    "I'm only for advancement in visuals if it enhances the game, what possible advancement does 3d mountains give us if you are hardly ever looking at them?"

    It enhances the game in the short time you are looking at them, simple. Yeah it's not a massive deal but how can improvement be seen as a negative (even if the improvement is so minimal it's hardly noticeable it's still a good thing, surely?)

    I do understand what you're saying but you could say the same of so many things, I mean remember back in the PS1 era when bystanders or even trees in racing games used to basically be 2D cardboard cutouts? It didn't make the games unplayable but I'm glad things have improved. I mean, you could argue that any minor advancement on its own is inconsequential but over time little things improve and we get from the visuals of GT1 to GT5P. Basically I just don't agree with the notion that a small improvement is not worthwhile, any improvement is better than none.

  • kangarootoo #112 4 years ago

    @Zero_Cool

    "Kazunori Yamauchi does play other racing games as stated on the CVG interview (bottom of the page):
    [link url=http://ww w.computerandvideogames.com/art...
    ]http://ww w.computerandvideogames.com/art...[/link]
    Eurogamer (again) is full of shit. "

    Are you mental? The bit of the EG article you are referring to are HIS OWN WORDS. So if anyone is full of shit, its Kazunori Yamauchi, you seem to be saying.

    Enagage mind before opening gob.

  • kangarootoo #113 4 years ago

    @Apologie

    You must realise you are doing more harm than good to your bonkers fanboy cause. You MUST see that, surely?

    And if you are getting paid (I suppose its possible), whoever pays you should fire you for the same reasons. Unless they are an idiot, in which case, I recommend you continue to take their money :)

  • kangarootoo #114 4 years ago

    @swam

    Jesus dude, if you want something to cuddle get a teddybear. A lot less sharp edges than a games console.

    Issues.

    /also owns a PS3 and doesn't "care" about it.

  • m0thr4 #115 4 years ago

    I do understand what you're saying but you could say the same of so many things, I mean remember back in the PS1 era when bystanders or even trees in racing games used to basically be 2D cardboard cutouts? It didn't make the games unplayable but I'm glad things have improved.

    LOL! They're 2D cardboard cutouts in some of the GT5P tracks...

  • knightmt #116 4 years ago

    I love these games, but they are games, and this guy is a bore.
    God help us if they make a RPG I hope I wont have to do everything in that,
    it could be harder than real life.

  • Kryon #117 4 years ago

    @m0thr4

    "LOL! They're 2D cardboard cutouts in some of the GT5P tracks..."

    Not to anything like the same extent as an older game, which was quite obviously my point, I just said things have improved (visually) and they quite obviously have.

  • Mock #118 4 years ago

    @swam

    If it's as good as you're saying it is, and I wouldn't know either way, why don't you just go and fkn play it instead of trying to wind up half the population of EG?

    It's good but not as good as being an e-tard?

  • fightman2 #119 4 years ago

    why does yamauchi look so much like a fucking cunt?

  • dsmx #120 4 years ago

    I'm not arguing about things that are close to the track like spectators they should be 3d however distant objects like mountains do not to need to be in 3d. I fail to see why you need something that is miles away to be rendered in 3d when it adds nothing to the game.

  • seasidebaz #121 4 years ago

    nobody mentioned about the weather in this version of the interview.

    some of the other transcripts mention that yamauchi is putting varied weather conditions in gt5(full), and those words came straight from the big buy's mouth...

  • George-Roper #122 4 years ago

    Just wanted to chime in, here. I have three workmates who bought their PS3's, recently, for this game.

    Each of them went out and bought it from GAME, at the same time.

    Each of them went online, in the evening, and had a go.

    Each of them brought it into work the following day, took it back to GAME and swapped it. Successfully, I might add.

    They were intensely disappointed with it but I haven't asked why, yet. Still, food for thought.

  • fightman2 #123 4 years ago

    yamauchi is nothing but a twat - lets hope he dies soon.

  • Rodney #124 4 years ago

    Swam Vs Fottari.

    Footari wins.

    Swam wins most 'nonsensical and logically lacking arguemnet skills' award.



  • muzzer77 #125 4 years ago

    It seems a lot of 360 owners may have veered of the racing line into this comments page. Face it Forza 2 (Bought it, played it, got bored) is good but it's not great, especially the A I which is rubbish. The GT series is the only car game where all the cars do drive differently and each one needs time (hence a lot of people can not do it) to master. Yes prologue has faults but it is Prologue, by the time GT5 is released these will be ironed out. So get with it, it costs £20 and is worth it and with the extra stuff coming out for it, it will be even better value by the end of the year.

  • Kryon #126 4 years ago

    "Each of them brought it into work the following day, took it back to GAME and swapped it. Successfully, I might add. "

    Is this actually true? The few GAME stores in my area are extremely adamant that you cannot exchange (or refund) an opened/used product, unless of course it's faulty.

    Taken from the GAME website -

    Returns for Store Purchases:

    Purchases made in store can be returned to any of stores (check our Store Finder to find your nearest GAME Store) under the following conditions.

    * Any product (excluding gift vouchers/gift cards) may be returned for refund or exchange within 28 days of the purchase date, providing that the seal remains unbroken.

  • Kryon #127 4 years ago

    @muzzer77

    Look, I like GT5P but your last post was just as ridiculous as headbogs nonsense tbh, so I'll dissect it line by line for you...

    "Face it Forza 2 (Bought it, played it, got bored) is good but it's not great"

    Sorry mate but Metacritic, GameRankings, EG and pretty much everyone apart from headbog/swam seems to agree that Forza is actually pretty great (that doesn't mean I'm dissing GT5P, just stating fact).

    "especially the A I which is rubbish."

    Admittedly, I've perhaps seen better AI but never in a GT game...

    "The GT series is the only car game where all the cars do drive differently"

    Hmm, is GT the only driving game you've played?

    "each one needs time (hence a lot of people can not do it) to master"

    Sorry but that's just weak man, nobody finds fault in GT because it's "too hard".

    "Yes prologue has faults but it is Prologue, by the time GT5 is released..."

    Let me stop you there, by the time GT5 is released Forza 3 and PGR 5 will probably be out, so...

    "get with it, it costs £20 and is worth it"

    Forza 2 is £9.99 from Argos and has been for months...and it is the better game, don't go by my words, check the reviews.




  • Ryze #128 4 years ago

    The audio issue in this game is blatantly due to to a lack of RAM to store the samples.

    The cardboard cutout people is due to the game chugging if full 3D characters are placed in those locations.

    We should all know that they set the bar way too high saying 1080p 60fps

    now they're doing only 960x1080 and they're sacrificing other parts of the game to make the graphics look decent.

    Lovely cars, though! Gorgeous game, but the whole thing is like a playable car porn demo.

  • Rodney #129 4 years ago

    Wow, you lot are up late. Im in Australia and its lunch time so god knows what time of the morning it is over there.

    in regards to the Forza vs GT.

    I think Forza wins in the physics (collision/handling), damage & A.I departments. Which should make it the clear winner.

    Yet, I found Forza so boring and souless. There just were not enough tracks to keep me interested. That was the biggest let down for me, I could live with the average graphics but pretty much every event/championship/cup consisted of the same tracks.

    I grew up on the GTgames and it has always been a system seller to me. If Polyphony can sort out the AI & collision detection with their trade mark graphics and volume of content then I will buy a PS3. no qualms.

    However, if it is just GT4 HD then I will be a very dissapointed 'xbot'

  • Zuiyo #130 4 years ago

    I'm loving every second I spend with GT5p. I am a follower of the saga. I bought a PS3 to play it.

    I tried other racers and I had the same reactions Yamauchi had - some of the stuff I considered important (how the cars looked and felt, for instance, or how gratifying was being in possession of them within the realms of the game) was low quality on my standard, which is a GT standard.

    I am not interested in damage over anything else. If it's there and fits the experience, I might give it a try. But I am more concerned with the visual feeling of realism of my car and those around me than with damage. To me, to my car game driving tastes, Polyphony's development strategy is the right one, that's why I'll keep supporting it. And I have a feeling there are millions out there who feel the same. GT doesn't need the sales leader to maintain its philosophy. I think Forza is very decent, and if more people find Forza suiting their taste better than GT, I understand. That's fine. They just have a different taste. To me, there is no question about not only which one is best but which one is developed the right way.

    If only they could do that a bit faster...

  • Darren #131 4 years ago

    @Rodney - I completely agree with your comments on Forza 2, it might be the more realistic game but I found it got dull very quickly because I'd played most of the content in the first game, a game I thought was absolutely brilliant at the time and far superior to the PS2's GT3/GT4. The trouble with Forza 2 isn't that it hasn't advanced enough, it was that the first game was so ahead of its time that this sequel really doesn't feel much different. That Turn 10 took the lazy route when it came to the sequel's tracks resulted in the Career mode quickly becoming stale. What's the point in having over 300 cars if you have to race around the same old tired routes? And why only 8 cars on the track? If the game had had 50 new tracks then those lacklustre 'Xbox 1.5 standard' graphics wouldn't have mattered but as it was the actual game felt like an absolute chore to play at times and I was surprised at how quickly I got bored of it (level 34).

  • Kryon #132 4 years ago

    @Darren

    I agree that the number of tracks in FM2 is minimal and that is definitely a shame but that's really the one and only downfall of the game imo. The graphics aren't the best ever seen in a racer but we all know that's because the game is designed to do a lot of things other than just look 'pretty' (as has been mentioned by numerous other posters) and to be quite honest I'd much rather have "lacklustre 'Xbox 1.5 standard' graphics" than lacklustre PS1 gameplay, and we all know that that's basically what we've got with GT5P. I find this unfortunate because I loved GT ten years or so ago on the PS1 but I've played it to death. Once the allure of the glitzy visuals in GT5P wears off, I'm basically left with a ten year old experience that I'm quite frankly a bit bored of now...

  • George-Roper #133 4 years ago

    @Kryon

    Yeah, swapped them out, no bother. One came back with DMC4, one with Eye Of Judgement (bargain at 39.99 with the Eye, btw) and the last with UT3.

    Maybe its because they all stumped up more cash with GTP being cheap but the lads in GAME around here are fairly decent about swaps.

  • Kryon #134 4 years ago

    @George Roper

    Your lucky to have lenient staff in your local store man, the manager in the GAME near me is a total cock-cheese, he'd rather feltch his own grandmother than exchange an opened product, the only reason I still shop there is because of the loyalty card scheme :(

  • George-Roper #135 4 years ago

    LOL! You just made me spit coke over my work LCD and keyboard...

    Sticky!

  • T4RG4 #136 4 years ago

    Forza2 is boring as hell in single-player career mode. Its fun hot lapping (the cars feel great IMO) with all helpers turned off. Its superb fun racing online against other 'humans' around the Nordschleife! Superb track.

    I haven't played the GT demo, and I say this as someone who would have bought a PS3 for GT5, but really, it's still not out and people don't sound that impressed with this taster. Good physics/feeling and Online is where its at for a racer (never thought I'd say that) and this, currently, is where GT appears to fall flat.

  • kangarootoo #137 4 years ago

    @Zero_Cool

    "Eurogamer is full of shit...just look at the pointless 360 Vs PS3 articles!! lol."

    Stop trying to change the subject, muppet.

  • FooAtari #138 4 years ago

    Ok after some decent time playing this ill say what I think by replying to some stuff here

    I completely agree with your comments on Forza 2, it might be the more realistic game but I found it got dull very quickly because I'd played most of the content in the first game

    I totally agree with Forza 2 being very similar to FM. It felt almost exactly the same and it wasn't long before I traded it in. But are trying to argue GT5p feels like a new game? It's GT4 in HD, with less cars and tracks!...

    The trouble with Forza 2 isn't that it hasn't advanced enough, it was that the first game was so ahead of its time that this sequel really doesn't feel much different. That Turn 10 took the lazy route when it came to the sequel's tracks resulted in the Career mode quickly becoming stale. What's the point in having over 300 cars if you have to race around the same old tired routes?

    Forza was hardly ahead of its time, but anyway. Turn 10 did the lazy route but PD have been taking the lazy route since GT2. The basic design and game progression has hardly changed at all and each game uses the same tracks as the previous games and adds a few more. True that means GT4 had a load of tracks, but not much more than 3. Whats the point in 900 cars with only a few new tracks? PD are guilty of exactly the same things you accuse Turn 10 of.

    I am not interested in damage over anything else. If it's there and fits the experience, I might give it a try. But I am more concerned with the visual feeling of realism of my car and those around me than with damage. To me, to my car game driving tastes, Polyphony's development strategy is the right one, that's why I'll keep supporting it. And I have a feeling there are millions out there who feel the same.

    If that's what you enjoy fair enough. It's kind of depressing though that you buy a racing game for the visuals. It's also depressing that you think it's fine to release effectively the same game time and time again with some improved visuals. Development strategy, what development strategy...

    Face it Forza 2 (Bought it, played it, got bored) is good but it's not great, especially the A I which is rubbish.

    I didn't think Forza 2's AI was that great, too aggressive. But it's light years ahead of GT's. On the second race I had an AI car ram me right up the back going down a straight, just drove straight into the back of me as I was going slower but was on the racing line. It did not take into account I was there and move round me. That's was just one of many collusions due to crap AI.

    The GT series is the only car game where all the cars do drive differently and each one needs time (hence a lot of people can not do it) to master

    That's total bollocks simple as. The cars in Forza drive differently, the cars in PGR drive differently, the cars in TOCA 3 drive differently, hell the cars in the ten year old Grand Prix Legends drive differently!

    Too difficult? Go and play GTR 2 or GPL and we can talk about which games are more challenging...

    it costs £20 and is worth it and with the extra stuff coming out for it, it will be even better value by the end of the year.

    I'd be a bit pissed if I bought it. It's GT4 0.5 HD (the 0.5 because it has less content) and it will be better value if we get whats promised and if it's free...


    I like driving in GT, while not wholly realistic the cars are nice to drive. But its the same old with GT.

    Sure the cars look good, but the environments are kind of lifeless and bland no doubt to get 60fps. It doesn't even have any skid marks for christ sakes.

    As I said before the AI is still crap. They seem to race each other but they don't defend their line and they stick to their line to matter what it would seem. So many time I have been on the outside coming out of a corner and been pushed off the track or into the wall because the AI car was taking the racing line regardless of the fact I was on it.

    The collision detection is terrible. I can ram into a car at high speed and it hardly moves and I can hold my line, meaning I can use other cars/the wall to bounce around the track with little negative effect. This is pretty broken and no acceptable in a modern race game.

    The sounds are pretty dull and generic.

    All in all as it stands at the moment nothing has changed since GT4 (or 3 for that matter) except visuals. You are paying for nearly the same game again. Which is quite funny as isn't that what so many people used to slag EA for? Yet its ok for PD to do it?

    You should demand more for your money folks.
    Edited by 1 at 07/04/08 @ 12:29

  • FooAtari #139 4 years ago

    Is that the best argument you can up with? What do you want me to do record me playing it?

    I bought the PS3 on Saturday afternoon and played for it throughout the evening.

    Anyway when you say "none". Id be pretty skeen to see any skid marks you leave when driving around the corner. I'd also like to see the damage model your copy must have too and the great collision detection. Show me you hitting another car at speed and it actually sliding of the track realistically and coming to a total halt against a wll, or even just spinning.
    Edited by 1 at 07/04/08 @ 13:27

  • FooAtari #140 4 years ago

    ?

    Hmmm, on that note I'm done with this conversation I think.

    Would seem Hedgbog has given up anyway.

  • Tired_1 #141 4 years ago

    All of you people arguing about Forza, GT, and others are really just blowing a lot of useless smoke. You can argue about how unrealistic the game is or how the graphics look whatever the case may be. That is your right on the internet. Where many people spout at many other people and nothing is really accomplished. I will try not to go further into the social aspects of the internet posting realm. The point of the comments on this particular site are to be about the article. Many on here are people who dont even play the PS3. Example the 360 and PC sim players. They came here to basically bash the game and created a binary brawl between the followers of the GT series and themselves. Plus the arguing is very prophetic and intellectual(very sarcastic). If you really want to add to the discussion, not turn it into an argument, do not bash other posts. Post what you think and hopefully it has some merit and is not just babble. This will help readers in deciding if the game is for them or not. My two cents is that it is worth waiting for the final release. If you like other GT games, as formentioned a lot of people do, the new cars and graphics will probably suite your wants and needs. The very hardcore sim players, which there are less of, from the pc maybe should stay on the pc. To 360 users, I wont say much as I have no appreciation for the xbox it is an inferior product and old technology. Microsoft I will just say jumped the gun. Being an electrical engineer, when the time came to buy a new gameing system it was a no brainer, PS3 is far superior to the 360. Off of that subject and back to the game. GT is only marketing for its key demographic and past players. The game will be a big seller. I have no doubt of that. Yes it is going to keep with the same key features in past games and to an odd few that would probably be strange and worth moving onto different games. To the masses it will be a next generation racing game which they have never seen before. These people will never hear of or hear and forget many of the other racing games just because they are the masses. That is not to say that these games are inferior in some ways or better in others. One point is he cares nothing about other games because the masses are buying his and most of those people will not hear your rants and buy the game. Even my post is useless but the point of the internet is to speak your mind without being afraid of anything or anyone, even if no one hears you.

    Quote - "Your silly grammar rules have no sway in this world." written by a forum lurker, speaking for all forum lurkers.
    Edited by 1 at 16/07/08 @ 22:27