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Sniper Ghost Warrior 3 is a great sniping game let down by a mediocre open world, poor voice acting, technical hitches and terrible writing.
This is why people complain. There is this strange sheild that some Nintendo franchises get from critisism, and it's quite natural (And rightful) for people to call it out when they see it.
No, I've pointed out that passengers regularly get "bumped" off flights they've paid to be on and it doesn't always end particularly well for any of the parties involved.
I've time and time said that the passenger could have avoided the beating he received, but I've never said that he should have been expected to do so because that would not have been completely reasonable. The fact that you keep trying to call me explaining the root causes, which do not involve any wrongdoing by the passenger, and the events that lead to the beating the passenger received "victim blaming" really goes to show how simple minded you are. It's like saying that someone talking about how distracted driving leads to people running over pedestrians is blaming pedestrians for being run over.
Right... Godown's law doesn't apply to someone insisting that you read a white supremacist news site run by actual neo nazis?
Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies) is an Internet adage which asserts that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1"—that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler.
Also nice to see that you can admit to the fact that you base your information purely on third hand sources rather than anything actually accurate. Because child pornography and other material illegal under U.S law is strictly banned on 8chan and has always been so.
Your attempt at trying to ensnare us with Breitbart is getting old. I've already pointed out that we're not fans of the site and provided you with proof of it.
Again with this attempt to handwave this survey because the person who did it isn't anti-GG and because it doesn't follow an arbitrary list of requirements you made up on the spot? How many times do I have to remind you that the same self selection bias problem affects the kind of survey you're demanding.
If you're going to try to set a strict set of demands on someone else, then don't be hypocrite and apply them on yourself first...
So by that "If you do something bad once, you should forever be treated as thinking it's ok even thou you've long since stopped doing that" we should throw people in jail forever whenever we throw them in jail?
Also, The Escapist never actually condoned or allowed actual harassment on their forums. Not that it didn't occur, but it was dealt with using bans pretty much immediately. Or are we using the "Talking about people I like in a negative light is harassment" style of logic people like you employ whenever actual there isn't any actual harassment to scream about?
Really? Because you still keep insisting that we think Breitbart is a reliable source of information on the whole despite I've time and time explained that this isn't true and I've even provided evidence to back that up.
Right... Something even basic journalistic standards consider relevant enough that it needs to be disclosed is totally just irrelevant fluff. Are you now going to say that journalistic standards in general are crap? Because I've seen that from anti-GG activists like yourself and games media itself.
So all you can respond to me pointing out that we're actually pressuring news organisations to solve a problem you brought up is emojis?
Then again, how do you respond to an own goal like that?
I've shown the exact same conditions happening tens of thousands of times a year and you still keep insisting that this has to be a one-off and that there's no way an airline could pay for the passenger's silence.
I've pretty conclusively proven that this was the result of an industry standard practice that is acted upon tens of thousands of times a year. You can keep being naive and insisting that this has only once lead to this end result, but I'm not that naive and can see the situation for what it is.
Ever heard of the saying "No smoke without fire"?
Oh so you're now trying to tell me what I should think? Because I remember pretty distinctly how GG got started and it was when the Quinn incident got people talking about past incidents like Gerstmann's again. The discussion was actually moving on from Quinn when the media then poured gasoline on the fire and tried to shut it down by not only calling anyone taking part in that discussion, but also gamers in general, misogynist harassers based on a few bad apples everyone, those having the discussion and those already attacking the people having that discussion, strongly condemned.
Godwin's law eh? I know you like to pretend that it's a distinction without a difference, but there's definitely a difference between being a white supremacist and being right wing. I've spent a lot of time on KotakuInAction and 8chan, but I've never seen anyone post a link to the Daily Stormer other than when mocking them.
Then again maybe I'm probably asking too much thinking that you might be able to understand the difference between mockery and agreement...
If their relationship was truly irrelevant, then why was disclosure of it added to the articles after GG pointed it out? Surely if there was no merit to GG's claims there would be no need to act on them? Right?
I know that anything even slightly outside of your black-and-white thought spectrum may cause you a headache, but you don't have to dislike everyone in a bigger group if you dislike the group the same way you don't have to like everyone in a bigger group of you like the group. I've rather conclusively proven that GG on the whole doesn't think Breitbart is a reliable source of information.
You may have had a point with the claims of No True Scotsman fallacy if I had claimed that nobody in GG thinks that Breitbart is a good outlet in general. What I instead did was counter your claim with evidence that these people make up a pretty small part of the movement.
If you had a look at the UK voting figures I posted you'll see that while leaning left, GG as a whole is all over the place in terms of political leanings. When you have a movement that is politically inclusive like this, there's naturally going to be a few right wing nuts here and there.
Strange how I'm pretty sure The Escapist strictly moderated their forums and removed anything encouraging or condoning harassment. Then again I have a feeling you're using the "Criticism and disagreeing with people I agree with is a form of harassment" standard people like you always use when you don't have any real harassment to latch onto.
Also, if that was one sided, then what do you call the media's depiction of GG? They've come out and made it clear they're not going to give us an opportunity to defend ourselves or give our take on things. Surely if that piece was one sided, then so has all of the media's coverage of GG? Or are we using double standards here?
Additionally, I remember pretty distinctly how we've been pushing the media to disclose whenever they're supporting the people they write about trough services like Pateon. Unlike you, we're actually working to solve that problem.
Tell me again how you believe this is just a one-off occurrence that has never happened before and will never happen again...
Tell me again how there's never previously been any controversies relating to a lack of journalistic standard in regards to press writing about games. I mean there's no way these accusations could have re-ignited discussion on the subject of games media and journalistic ethics. Events like the Jeff Gerstmann firing as totally just crazy conspiracy theories. The Society of Professional Journalists were definitely smoking something when they concluded that GG has legitimacy.
Maybe if you like to pretend as if there have never been any incidents where the ethics of games writing and that those didn't get brought back to the surface by this.
Fact 2- Grayson did not write a puff-piece on Quinn because she was fucking him
Maybe, maybe not. Basic journalistic ethics still state that he should have abstained from writing about her at all or at the very least disclosed this in the articles in question. Disclosure of this was however not added until after GG brought attention to this failure of basic journalistic ethics.
Fact 2- Grayson did not write a puff-piece on Quinn because she was fucking him
This would be true had Grayson followed basic journalistic standards and abstained from writing about or at the very least disclosed their relationship in these articles before GG had to point this out.
Well what does your logic say when I tell you that Huffington Post articles are also posted regularly on KotakuInAction?
Is the idea that people want to see what all ends of the political spectrum are saying really that foreign to you? Is the idea that the truth may actually lie in the middle that unfathomable for you?
Or are you just going to keep insisting that were somehow huge fans of a site we consider so unreliable we're going out of our way to avoid giving them clicks and ad revenue?
Then again this talk about us supposedly being fans of Breitbart was your way of sidestepping the idea that the actions of a few bad apples aren't representative of a larger group.
Right... Yet you still tar the whole of the movement based on a few bad apples whose behavior you now admit may not be accepted by the movement at large.
This is where you pretty much just get it wrong. Unlike what the media has said all along, the revulsion towards threats, doxxing and other forms of harassment has been a bipartisan stance since the beginning of the movement. A few bad apples took things well past the point of what's acceptable and everyone in the movement and outside of it, regardless of their stance on the harassment, got tarred with the same brush. This is after all what has kept the movement going for this long and was the thing that caused the movement to get so large in the first place.
Had the narrative been specific to those doing harassment and not the guilt by association crap the movement would have fizzled out by end of 2014. However here we are in 2017 with the movement as strong as it's ever been.
There was a lot of talk early on about starting a new movement under a new name that would take distance from the harassers from the get-go. However after it became clear (this was done on public facing forums after all) that the media was planning on attacking this new movement as being the same old movement with a new name this idea was dropped.
Yes, a survey of confirmed GG actives where the raw data is available for public scrutiny. If you want to question his methods, then you can go look at the data and prove your point using it.
The reason why people use random selections is to diminish any impact caused by outside parties coming in and messing with the results by adding false testimony to the data. In this case it's not necessary when all the participants are confirmed actives in the movement. Your quip about me not understanding statistics is pretty much completely unfounded.
Seriously, if you're going to apply this logic of "Any GG supporter cannot be trusted on the subject of GG" then it also makes the media, who is the other party here and has taken a very anti-GG stance, equally unreliable on the subject.
Also, try to remember that reading something does not mean that you actually agree with it. I'm not going to say that because you're reading what I'm saying means that you agree with me because that would be completely stupid.
Archived links to Breitbart articles on subjects like campus riots are posted regularly on KotakuInAction so the figures are naturally going to be high. However by popular vote Breitbart has been considered so unreliable that it's on the list of sites where any links to it have to be run trough an archiving service so that any links to them don't cause them to get clicks and ad revenue.
How do you think this would have ended had the couple decided to do the same thing as the guy who got beaten up by airport security? Do you really think that EasyJet wouldn't have had the couple dragged out kicking and screaming had they decided this was the only way they were going to be removed from the flight?
Are you really this naive?
Missing the point again are we? Let me rephrase that as a series of events so you might finally understand what's going on:
1: Carrier overbooks a flight
2: Carrier offers passengers compensation and being moved to another flight before they try to board the plane - Happens to over 500.000 passengers a year in the U.S alone
3: Passenger refuses this and is either removed from the flight or denied boarding at the last minute - Happens to about 50.000 passengers every year in the U.S alone
4: Passenger refuses to get out of their seat voluntarily and has to physically be removed from their seat
Do you really think Step 4 is a one-off? Do you really think this 4 step chain of events has never previously had a similar outcome when it gets to the second to last step about 50.000 times a year?
Ever heard of something called a PR department? Because hiding bad press like this is pretty much why companies have them and a big company like United Airlines definitely has one.
I'm pretty sure you're the one with the No True Scotsman fallacy here...
You refuse to even entertain the idea that GG in general doesn't support doxxing and threats, insisting that we support this abhorrent behavior. I never said that these people don't exist in our ranks because they unfortunately do. There's unfortunately not much we can do about them except denounce this kind of behavior not allow it on our forums. Their actions however as I mentioned are not supported by the movement at large or allowed on the forums we control.
This is exactly why I brought up the comparison to people who judge all Muslims based on the actions of extremists and terrorists. Muslims at large can't do much about these bad apples either except denounce their actions and not allow this kind of behavior on their forums.
If there's one thing that I've learned over the years of trying to discuss things with people, it's that people with vast differences of opinion can in exactly the same way.
So you're telling me that you don't see any problem in a journalist writing a puff piece on somebody they're personally involved with? Because not writing about people you're personally involved with, specially when you do it without disclosing this, is considered one of the biggest faux pas:es a journalist can do.
If you're going to apply that logic to us, how about you first apply it to yourself?
Seriously thou, that survey was only available to people who had been active on KotakuInAction for about a year (IIRC).
If a survey of confirmed GG supporters isn't enough and you won't actually look at the way GG behaves on the inside, how am I supposed to show what GG is actually like? Or have you just convinced yourself that you simply can't be wrong on this subject?
I've repeatedly pointed out that the conditions that lead to this man being beaten up by airport security happen tens of thousands of times every year. Are you really so naive that you believe this has never happened before because it's never before made it into the headlines?
Here's pretty much the same thing, minus the kicking and screaming, happening in the U.K the day after the United Airlines debacle:
Are you really so naive that you believe that this actually is a one-off when the same setup happens tens of thousands of times a year?
I don't need to pretend because I was there in the beginning and have continued to be so since then. Outside of anti-GG I've never seen anyone condone doxxing, threats and other forms harassment on a pro-GG forum without getting shouted down and told to leave. The screenshot I posted is pretty much how doxxing on pro-GG forums always looks like.
Then again with your "out of sight -out of mind" mentality your statements it's to be expected for you to ignore bad behavior on your side of the fence and act like the bad behavior on this side of the fence is sanctioned.
That's what the media, i.e the accused in this controversy, would have you believe. What really got people interested was that Quinn had slept with a journalist who had given her some very positive coverage and the evidence for this was easily found on their social media. It obviously didn't help things that Kotaku dismissed this out of hand by stating that because the journalist hadn't reviewed her game, thou he had written an extensive puff piece on her and the game, this was all fine.
It's not like the feeling isn't mutual you know...
I guess that's what it looks like when you live in an echo chamber. However in the real world there's a difference between people with certain view points being tolerated and actually being supported. On KotakuInAction, the main GG subreddit, Breitbart is on the list of sites where links to it have to be run trough an archiving site so that they don't get any clicks from links posted there.
Seriously, last year Brad Glasgow surveyed GG and found that:
This is how the movement voted in the 2012 American presidential election (the 2016 election was still something like 6 months away at that point)
This is how the movement voted in the last U.K parliamentary election
This is how often the movement reads Breitbart and mind you, this includes reading it trough links posted on other sites
Here's the point simplified even further:
- Shitty company does shitty things to operate as cheaply as possible
- Customer thinking he can still get his way refuses to let company operate the way they usually do and makes it clear that the company needs to use violence to get him out of the way
- Shitty company obliges and gets airport security to remove him, who ends up beating him up in the process of removing him from the flight
If there's one thing you're doing well, it's showing people that're incapable of seeing the world in anything except black and white.
This is not how airlines work
No my naive little friend, this is EXACTLY how budget airlines like United work. You get cheaper airfares, but it comes with CAVEATS.
As I mentioned, getting bumped off flights is very common these days. A quick Google search finds that last year United Airlines alone removed or denied boarding to 3765 passengers and the figure for the whole airline industry in the U.S was about 40.000.
When you "bump" 40.000 people off their every year, do you really think this is an isolated incident? Because you have to be very naive to do so.
This is not how airlines work
When I brought up those figures I intended to demonstrate that the conditions and policy behind them that caused this is very common. Do you really think something like this has never happened before or won't happen again when the same series of events (minus the passenger being removed by force rather than voluntarily) happens this often? I hope you're familiar with the expression "Where there's smoke there's fire"?
All you could come up to respond to me pointing out that, unlike with anti-GG, doxxing is not supported by GG was to essentially go "Well what comes around goes around" and claiming that you don't go to Reddit.
Try to remember that the "Gamers are dead" article series that really got GG started slandered gamers in general based on a few individuals whose actions were wholly condemned by gamers in general.
Then again am I expecting too much of you? It's not like you've so far been able to understand the idea of a few bad apples not being representative of a much larger group. You probably believe Muslim extremists and terrorists are representative of Muslims in general.
So your logic here is that if something doesn't get huge media attention, it never happened?
If you have evidence to prove your bogus claim let's see it. Which other airline has had a passenger assaulted, broken his nose, knocked out his front teeth and given him a concussion, because of overbooking. Good luck with that trog :lol:
I proved that removing passengers from flights like this is by no means unique to United Airlines. Instead it's an industry standard practice for low cost airlines and that it happens tens of thousands of times a year. Are you really so naive that you think this has never happened elsewhere with this many cases of people being "bumped" off flights?
Mind you, about 40.000 the number of people "bumped" off flights involuntarily. The figure for people voluntarily being "bumped" off flights is about 10 times that. In 2015 that figure stood at about 500.000! Here's a link if you don't believe me:
As I said, when your rationale is "It's OK when we do it" then you lose any kind of moral high ground. Also to repeat a point I made, when that happens to our targets we disown the person who did it and take distance from that kind of behavior. You people usually cheer for the person who did it and defend them using rationale like the one you've presented.
Oh yes, here comes the usual "But it's OK if we do it" attitude from you lot...
Yes, I support a movement that criticizes racism, sexism and all round bigotry by people claiming to be against these things and openly denounces any actual harassment (threats, doxxing, etc.) against these targets. This is what it looked like when we supposedly doxxed Brianna Wu.
Your own subreddit, GamerGhazi (of which MrTomFTW is a mod of BTW) forced the Reddit admins to come in when not only were your mods allowing doxxing to take part on your subreddit, you had a mod actively take part in it. The mod in question resigned not long after, but has since then returned to being a mod over there.
Seriously, how many times do I have to explain to you that this was the unfortunate end result of a passenger deciding that they were not going to be removed except by force and the airline and airport security obliging?
You really are making a very good case for your lack of understanding of nuance when you claim that I'm defending a shitty company when all I'm doing is explaining how they operate and why they do shitty things like this.
What you're doing is like saying that explaining how a gun works means you're condoning murder.
United Airlines is a shitty company for people who want to pinch pennies on airfare.
When you use them to pinch pennies on airfare, it can come back to bite you in the backside when stuff like this happens.
This is usually resolved by offering to transfer volunteers to the next flight with a few hundred dollars in compensation and free hotel night if necessary. What happened on this flight was just that, except with a twist.
They got 3 out of the 4 necessary passengers to take the next flight voluntarily, but nobody else would volunteer. So they selected a 4th person at random and the person they chose still refused to get off the plane voluntarily
God one... The pretty clear evidence you've unwittingly presented with your "If he disagrees with me on this completely unrelated topic, he's a fuckwit!"-attitude is probably lost on someone as simple minded as you.
Ever heard of the expression "You get what you pay for"?
When you fly what I like to call "cattle class" you service is obviously going to be on par with the prices. Expecting good customer service when you're flying coach or "tourist class" is like going to poundland and expecting service to be on par with selfridges.
They offered $400 and a hotel night, then $800 and a hotel night to anyone who would be willing to take the next flight and 3 out of the needed 4 people took them up on this.
When nobody else wanted to pick up on this offer they had to chose someone at random and the person who had the misfortune of being selected decided that he wouldn't get off the plane no matter what.
I think they are simply desperately doing crisis management, as one of their cynical and seemingly surefire follies spectacularly backfired:
To cover the issues of the development, they wanted to sell the game with sex (an age old trick).
I think games publishers need to understand that if this continues people will catch on that waiting is better than buying an unfinished product at release, and due to this they'll potentially lose a lot of money to second hand sales.
Skyrim, Fallout 3, Infamous 2