ShiftyGeezer Comments

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  • Failbetter Games announces Sunless Skies

  • ShiftyGeezer 24/09/2016

    @Binba442 :
    Surely the point of a kickstarter is to measure interest in a game
    Not aboslutely. Successful Kickstarting generally means having enough fans following you and enough capital to pay artists and editors to create a swish campaign including, typically, gameplay videos. So you need much of the game already done to use Kickstarting as one revenue stream to bolster your coffers. It's no longer a launch platform for ideas, but a mid-development capital acquisition platform, AFAICS.

    It's also worth doing regardless whether you can afford to create your game or not because of the publicity.

    And Sunless Sea wasn't a runaway success so may well not have made enough such that the Kickstarter is necessary. If it takes $500,000 to make a game, you make $0 until you've cleared $500,000 in sales. It can well be that the 'profits' go to the creditors/investors leaving little left for the company to grow with.

    It's certainly not the case of Kickstarter > Game > Self-sufficient company funding their own creations with no money problems!
    Reply +3
  • Earn entry into Titanfall 2 multiplayer mode at US resturant

  • ShiftyGeezer 23/09/2016

    @Skirlasvoud : They means reschront, innit. Reply +1
  • ShiftyGeezer 23/09/2016

    @Dappa : Yes. Pay me enough and I'll make it happen! Reply +1
  • Four years later the Kingdoms of Amalur court case comes to an end

  • ShiftyGeezer 23/09/2016

    @fragglerocks : Gosh, fancy meeting a fellow Fraggle! Reply +5
  • ShiftyGeezer 23/09/2016

    Still haven't finished this! Reply +11
  • And that's that for fan game Pokemon Uranium

  • ShiftyGeezer 22/09/2016

    @Nikanoru : They didn't 'steal shit'. They made a fan creation. The world is full of fan creations, like cover songs and artworks. This one just got too big and directly rivalled the source material so had to be stopped.

    And I'm not advocating IP theft. I'm just explaining why "setting out to create your own IP" isn't an easy thing to do. So where Crashokami says, "why not turn it into your own IP?" the reason is, "the investment might not be worth it without the visibility."

    As I say, if it wasn't called Pokemon we'd have never heard of it and it wouldn't have gotten 1.5M downloads so quickly. That doesn't justify ripping IP, but it does show the impact strong IP has. With this publicity they could definitely take it to Steam now under a different brand.
    Reply +4
  • ShiftyGeezer 22/09/2016

    As such, we, the creators of this game, will no longer be offering downloads (but if someone else does, that's nothing to do with us!)
    @CrashOkami :
    I don't get why people create something that blatantly uses copyrighted material
    Because they're fans and were just doing it for the fun of it.
    then are dumbfounded...
    Are they dumbfounded?
    Why not turn it into an original project anyway?
    Might happen, although they'd probably face a legal battle, but would 1.5 million people have downloaded 'Portable Creatures' or whatever the knock-off was named? Visibility is massively important and a strong brand helps no end, which is why companies invest in brands and then recycle them ad nauseum. We wouldn't have even heard of the thing.
    Reply -3
  • FIFA 17 doesn't have Iceland because of a row over money

  • ShiftyGeezer 22/09/2016

    The value of a team ought (in business terms) to be based on their value to the customers. I guess EA reckons the buying public aren't interested in playing Iceland so only offered 11k. I expect England jumped at the chance of the 5000 they were offered... Reply +36
  • Microsoft on Project Scorpio, PS4 Pro marketing and Xbox tweets

  • ShiftyGeezer 21/09/2016

    @mocoworm : The Last of Us is a PS3 game though, even if enhanced. Yes, Scorpio can run some games targeting a lower pixel fidelity at 4k - so could PS4 Pro. It can also run higher resolutions than PS4 Pro. But the majority of AAA titles being 4K native (which again is a misnomer because many buffers in modern rendering are lower than native) still seems unlikely. It means less pretty games; what dev would want to target that?! For the same reason games aren't/weren't held back in pixel quality on PS3 and XB360 and XB1 to hit a certain resolution target, why would they be held back on Scorpio? Reply +3
  • ShiftyGeezer 21/09/2016

    @Malek86 : Rainbow Six was the first commercial attempt at Checkerboard rendering. It's not indicative of the best attainable with smart reconstruction. Reply 0
  • ShiftyGeezer 21/09/2016

    @Zicoroen : That paper confirms EG's assertion, no? Reply -1
  • ShiftyGeezer 21/09/2016

    Project Scorpio guarantees a true, native 4K video games
    No it doesn't. Smart reconstruction gives far more bang-per-buck allowing for prettier games with very little difference in image quality. It'd be better for Scorpio games (and PC games on high end cards, and all devices capable of smart reconstruction) if they use smart reconstruction and have twice the pixel prettiness. Devs are likely to realise this and implement it, meaning plenty of '4K' games are unlikely to be native 4k, and all the better for it.
    Reply +11
  • DICE reveals Battlefield 1 launch maps and modes

  • ShiftyGeezer 21/09/2016

    In the authentic Operations mode, do you have encounters where you have to walk towards the enemy machine guns and get gunned down? Or a creeping barrage where your own side is shelling you?

    If you want to be authentic, have no respawn.
    Reply +2
  • Steam dumps developer for being "hostile" to customers

  • ShiftyGeezer 17/09/2016

    @bad09 : It's not free and open to appear there, so it's curated, no? Reply +2
  • ShiftyGeezer 17/09/2016

    Question is how did they get on Steam in the first place? Many other devs don't manage that, but Digital Suicide's games are, by account, crap and undeserving of the place. So how is the curated Steam allowing dross on? Reply +11
  • FIFA 17: How the Frostbite engine improves visuals

  • ShiftyGeezer 17/09/2016

    It's not all a win though. The last shot in the vid shows shadowing on the ball from the foot in 16 that's missing in 17. Could really do with some AO in the team huddle as well, and going a step further, some GI bounce from the boots and ball would be nice to see. But most importantly, though 17 is prettier, it's still a far way off realistic in play which, when you recall the 'next gen Madden' shown for last generation, we should already have according to EA. :p

    Edit: Also, Screenshot 5 - the crowd and officials aren't lit well in 17! All are casting shadows in the same 4 directions regardless of relative position to floodlights (which aren't even in the corners so shouldn't be producing four diagonal shadows...), so these aren't proper dynamic shadows lights. Similarly they're lit from all four directions without correct occlusion, so appear to 'glow' somewhat.

    Still, the grass is nice!
    Reply +3
  • PlayStation announces job losses at Sony London, San Diego studios

  • ShiftyGeezer 15/09/2016

    @jammers101 : As Far As I Can See. That's an old one, from the earliest days of the net and usenet newsgoups. Reply 0
  • ShiftyGeezer 15/09/2016

    @jonbwfc : that's what we said! Reply 0
  • ShiftyGeezer 15/09/2016

    @chilon : Varies by company, and location. Every business employs people based on the work they have and expect to have. Every now and again it can come to reevaluating their position and letting people go as needed (or employing more!). Software studios are pretty short-term, working project to project with any development job being a few years tops on the whole. The notion of 'permanent' staff is a fallacy. You can be employed as a 'permanent' staff member (employee with employment contract and rights) while in a boom phase (Rovio?) and then made redundant 2-3 years later as the company misses projections or changes direction. Happens all the time, and savvy businesses work the employment details (employee or contractor) based on how to spend the least to get the workers. Redundancy payment for a two year employee junior development on top of wages is probably less than the same employee as a contractor, I imagine.

    In the case of game studios where there's very little certainty, there's definitely no permanence, at least in Western studios.

    But that's common for many industries. People working for Hinkley Point construction have been employed as permanent staff within the company structure and yet worked various shifting workloads, employed/unemployed, and applying for new jobs within the company, as the project has progressed and stalled.
    Reply +2
  • ShiftyGeezer 15/09/2016

    @el_pollo_diablo :
    Thanks for all your hard work, now fuck off.

    What a vile and unsustainable approach to running a business.
    I'm not disagreeing, but that's many businesses. How many will willingly keep staff on beyond their financial usefulness out of a sense of friendship or loyalty. "Job for Life" died as a concept decades ago and now we have to operate with a degree of uncertainty over any position.

    Friend of mine, Oracle developer, mid project on a big project after years at the company, let go as they switch to outsource in India. Just like that.

    AFAICS that's life, not game development.
    Reply +13
  • ShiftyGeezer 15/09/2016

    Pretty misleading represent IMHO. Describing it as 'job losses' makes it sounds like downsizing. This is how the games industry often works and is normal practice, same as making movies or construction. The news is really 'these projects have completed and we'll start again as usual on our new projects.'

    For example, Media Molecule grew large to complete LBP/2, and then massively downsized to where it is now for Dreams, where they ramp up again. That wasn't run as a story as 'massive job cuts at Media molecule' giving the impression the studio was on its last legs. Not sure why this one is.

    A studio closure, that's a story. But this is reporting on the normal workings of the business as if it's newsworthy and it's not.
    Reply +1
  • The Last Guardian delayed again

  • ShiftyGeezer 13/09/2016

    @Zerobob : You have to know code very well. I use C# but Javascript is supported in Unity. One way to implement the infinite runner (and of course there are many, and you pick what sounds the best one, then find it doesn't work as simply as you imagine, then consider whether you should force it to work or try one of the other ways that now seems so simple and obvious you wonder why you didn't pick it in the first place...) would be to have a set of prebuilt obstacles and then place them just off screen whenever the player advances one unit. I made such a prototype in a few hours.

    Unity handles physics nicely, drag and drop. It's shockingly easy to start assembling stuff and get results on screen, such that you get a very false sense of ease. But the particulars are always tricky. eg. In my Inifite Runner prototype, I wanted you to jump on a screen press. Easy, OnTouch(){ add force}. But then of course you should only jump when on the floor/platform, and I wanted it to jump higher the longer you press, and you shouldn't jump if you've just fallen off a ledge. And getting a nice solution to this was a few hours playing around and it still wasn't perfect. Meanwhile my friend's excitedly saying, "we can add this, and do that, and have such-and-such!" Feature creep!

    It's really when you start stepping outside the most features (which everyone wants to do eventually) that the Lego-block style level construction breaks and you use more and more code. eg. Physics based object that you can drag with a touch. Suddenly you're wrestling with either manually trying to position it or trying to calculate the forces needed to move it where you're touching, etc. It all seems so easy and obvious when you add a 'RigidBody2D' and 'BoxCollider2D' to your object and see it fall and bash and roll and bounce, that you can't begin to imagine how hard it'll become to take that object and have it manipulated as you imagine with two-finger touch input.
    Reply +1
  • ShiftyGeezer 12/09/2016

    Read the comments... :lol:
    Reply +7
  • ShiftyGeezer 12/09/2016

    @Syrette : I'll add one more personal anecdote that really describes the unexpectedness of software for me. When I was doing my Comp Sci degree, we had a timed programming assessment. There was a simple task dealt with in two loops, and my program was hanging. So I put a print statement in between the two loops, knowing that if the first loop was successful this would print and I should look at the second loop. The statement did not print, so I read deeply through my first loop. I could see nothing wrong. I asked the supervisor and they knew what was wrong but couldn't tell me. Time ran out and I'd been stumped and not progressed.

    It was then that they told me the 'print' statement in this version of Unix buffers the line and wouldn't output until a second print statement.

    So my first loop was correct, but the system had a quirk I didn't know and couldn't anticipate that stopped the simple debug method working and caused a 'false positive' misdirecting me from the problem, which was an obvious loop condition fault in the second loop.

    Point being, you never really know what's going on under the hood! There can be any number of things that stop you solving a problem as you struggle to find if it's a problem with your code or the API/engine/etc you're using.
    Reply +5
  • ShiftyGeezer 12/09/2016

    @orangpelupa : I did announce an expected May/June release of the demo. Still, it'll be done this month, for sure! Probably... Reply +3
  • ShiftyGeezer 12/09/2016

    @Spectral : How did I dismiss it? I answered it! That's software for you! When they started out, they had no idea PS3 just couldn't realise the vision. they developed, found bugs, solved bugs, came up with solutions, had to reinvent solutions, had to reconsider the whole problem... Then they had to make choices to change the vision to fit the platform, or shelve the project. This is how software rolls, especially bigger titles. Many, many titles get announced and then shelved. The only difference here is the fans caused the game to get picked up again.

    I still lament the non-show of The Agency, a 3-player team cooperative game announced for PS3.
    Reply +6
  • ShiftyGeezer 12/09/2016

    @Syrette : Software complexity doesn't match what you see on screen. It's not something that can be explained in brief effectively either. The interplay of complex systems just keeps generating roadblocks.

    For example, you could have an AI solution, then a new gameplay element. You could spend several months changing the AI, finding new ways to solve the problem each time the previous attempt leads to a dead end, only to appreciate a complete rewrite is needed based on what you've learnt over the past 6 months. That's probably the biggest bottleneck - having a solution that doesn't quite work, and having to choose between struggling to make it work, or reinvent the whole damned solution (again!).

    Bugs can be incredibly hard to track down and solve.

    Tools and update can stop progress. You can have an engine update or similar and suddenly something's broken. And time zone differences mean it's 24 hours from a question to a reply, and 24 hours after that for an update, just as you try to describe the problem.

    I created a balloon puffing maze game on mobile in Unity. The inspirational spark led to a playable prototype in 2 hours. Awesome! Won't take long to finish this. It was then 2 months until the final project was complete, for a mind-numbingly simple tap-to-blow-the-balloon mobile game.

    And for my touch soccer game, it was a few weeks to solve how to predict where to kick a through-ball to, and well over a month playing with AI to get it to play reasonably. The project was expected to take 2-3 months and took 9. Networking is a bitch!

    Presently my tile-based dungeon crawler, deliberately kept 'simple' to speed development so using tiles, has seen delay after delay. Things like movement on a grid, that are so easy to describe in your head, end up very complex to describe unambiguously for a dumb machine to implement.

    There's a good reason why game after game either gets delayed or released with many bugs (forced deadlines), and that's because software is insanely complex. It's like trying to micromanage a city full of people. You have to be an engineer and inventor to invent solutions. An architect to piece it all together. Then a detective to find out why things aren't working as they should. Then an academic to find papers explaining how to do stuff you've never done before. And a student learning grass-root skills like GPU shaders.

    Everyone who thinks it can't take that long should grab a copy of Unity and make a simple platforming Infinite Runner game. Shouldn't take more than a week, right? ;) (No buying an Infinite Runner starter kit from the Asset Store!)
    Reply +26
  • ShiftyGeezer 12/09/2016

    @Spectral : it was shelved for a long while. Started on PS3, dropped on PS3 as not powerful enough, picked up again because the fans wouldn't let it go. In real terms of development it'll just be however long it's been worked on on PS4, maybe 2-3 years. Possibly slowed by porting a PS3 engine, quite possibly with six months of that before realising they'd have to start from scratch. Reply +2
  • ShiftyGeezer 12/09/2016

    @sanctusmortis :
    I genuinely worry about what exactly has caused them all these issues.
    That's software. If you've no experience of developing software, you can't appreciate the complexities of it and just how much unexpected can go wrong.
    Reply +29
  • Time crisis: Is this the end of the light gun?

  • ShiftyGeezer 10/09/2016

    I think people just don't want to play direct-gun games. We've had working hacks like Move in a gun peripheral but they haven't proven popular. A lot of styles and genres have slipped by the wayside. Shooting will move to VR. Reply +5
  • PlayStation Meeting 2016 live report

  • ShiftyGeezer 07/09/2016

    So PS4 Pro is for 4K HDR TV owners. Making the cost of ownership of PS4 Pro the console + TV. Really isn't reaching any audience. Sales will be terrible if Neo can't play 1080p at better than PS4 quality. Reply 0
  • Finally, Mario comes to iPhone

  • ShiftyGeezer 07/09/2016

    Everything is worth whatever someone is willing to pay.
    Yep. The problem with mobile is excessive open competition resulted in devs dumping their titles, driving prices down, and now no-one wants to pay real money. This Mario game is competing with many other games, free and low, low priced. So it's unlikely to warrant the same money from the mobile audience as Nintendo would expect from the console space. We see this in console titles that are significantly more expensive than their mobile counterparts.

    I see Final Fantasy VI sold decent numbers on Android, so hopefully there is a market for quality games. Just not infinite runners!
    Reply 0
  • ShiftyGeezer 07/09/2016

    @TheStoneRoses : Nothing wrong with charging, but are mobile gamers going to pay as much 4 for an endless runner? Let alone 8 as INSOMNiAC suggests above. Reply -3
  • ShiftyGeezer 07/09/2016

    @INSOMANiAC 4 for an endless runner? Is having a Mario setting really worth that much for a genre that's completely saturated? Reply -3
  • Apple accidentally announces iPhone 7, iPhone 7 Plus via own website

  • ShiftyGeezer 07/09/2016

    @markandrewroberts1 :
    In part it's seen as a move to try and force the industry to evolve away from a 30+ year old connector.
    The tip/(ring)/sleeve connector is Victorian tech, invented for telephone exchanges. The 3.5mm jack has been around since the 60s.

    And why? Coz' it works! Copper cables are just as good for earpieces as they are for high end audio speakers. There's not going to be better quality from some digital connector, lightning or USB3. No need for multichannel audio with only L and R drivers, and who's using 5.1 headphones with an iPhone?

    That said, the audio jack just died in my iPad Mini.
    Reply +9
  • Metroid Prime: Federation Force flops

  • ShiftyGeezer 05/09/2016

    Is it me or does this article contradict itself? No-one thought it would sell that badly, yet the sales failure is expected.

    No one predicted Metroid Prime: Federation Force would sell well, but few thought it would sell this badly.
    Sadly, then, the game's sales failure is not unexpected.
    Perhaps that last word should be "suprising", or "unjustified" or "unwarranted", or somesuch?
    Reply +3
  • Wasp wins World Scrabble Championship

  • ShiftyGeezer 05/09/2016

    Except it's a lie. The wasp helped a person win. I was expecting a story where the wasp placed letters somehow.

    I want my money back!
    Reply +14
  • Bethesda's touching tribute to a fan who passed away

  • ShiftyGeezer 02/09/2016

    I don't have the words, all I can do is feel for you and I have great respect for your ability to take all that pain and not let it control you.
    Thanks, but really that pain is nothing to what a lot of folk go through. Imagine being a victim of WWII, after years of fear and fighting, freezing and starving in your own home. Day after day. You've eaten the pets and are now eating the goddam furniture with no end in sight.

    Or a soldier having to fight while suffering from dysentery and shitting themselves as they march on raw feet through a swamp because some dick orders them too.

    Or some miserable wretch working some shitty 12 hour shift in a cotton mill for pittance.

    Or some poor black kid sold by their own tribe into slavery on a sugar plantation.

    Or someone born with a crippling disease so they suffer constant pain. Or a disfiguring condition so they get shunned by society.

    There are many truly awful, miserable, perhaps beyond contemplation, lives and experiences we all could have had. Yet how many are truly happy with just having a nice, normal life?! With society constantly bombarding us with unrealistic hopes and dreams of YOLO adventurous supermodels living the high life with a view to selling us something, the pressures we face really aren't much and yet prove so much more damaging versus what humanity has had to deal with in the past.

    On the one hand, we've come very far. On the other, we haven't really progressed at all.
    Reply +4
  • ShiftyGeezer 02/09/2016

    So sad about the fellow losing his father and brother in quick succession. Life isn't fair and getting reminders like that helps me take stock of my own life
    My brother, 18 months older than me, developed leukaemia at about 16. He got over it. Then it came back when he was 20. At the same time my dad was diagnosed as having a brain tumour, which manifest while taking me to university when he suddenly lost the ability to talk coherently and kept mixing words.

    Dad then had a rupture of his intestine (similar to a burst appendix but not as extreme) causing his digestive juices to irreparably damage his intestines and he needed a colostomy, where he had to wear a plastic bag stuck to his belly that accumulated his faeces, and maintain that.

    My brother contracted pleurisy in hospital. When we went to see him, there was a notebook he had been using to communicate with the nurses, because he couldn't breath enough to talk. On it he had written, "I can't breath. I don't want to die. I'm scared."
    He died shortly after at 21.

    Over the following year my dad deteriorated mentally as the pressure of the tumour pressed against his brain, until he was largely non-compos mentis. He was eventually bed-ridden at home and then died a year after my brother.

    The night my brother died, after we'd all accepted to turn the machines off, I took my 14 year old sister home from London by train, and we sang Muppet songs and had some laughs. The night my father died, and we knew it was coming, my two sisters and I were playing a board game I'd made (that took three days to complete!) and having a jolly good time.

    Because life goes on.

    I tried to encapsulate that message in this LBP level...
    Reply +42
  • Master of Orion review

  • ShiftyGeezer 02/09/2016

    Played these games tooo much when young. Was always about finding the exploits. In MOO2, with the right tech you could take out any and every armada with a single medium ship. And it always came down to pushing tech. Best tech == win, every time.

    MOO did have a challenge though. It was possible to lose if an aggressive neighbour picked on your early, for example.
    Reply +1
  • PlayStation Move is back, and now in a PSVR double pack

  • ShiftyGeezer 01/09/2016

    @kirankara : how can it be clearing old stock when it uses the newer, smaller USB port? Reply +6
  • ShiftyGeezer 01/09/2016

    Shame they didn't add a mini thumbstick/nub to each Move. Would've done wonders, although I appreciate the need to remain compatible with the old model. Reply -1
  • Digital Foundry: Let's build a 1080p60 gaming PC

  • ShiftyGeezer 28/08/2016

    @rep- :
    Gaming has never been a cheap hobby.
    Couldn't disagree more. Being proper poor growing up, the only things we could afford to do were watch TV and play computer games. Very, very few other activities give the same hours entertainment per pound. Only cheaper options are reading library books and loitering outside, maybe kicking a ball/drinks can*. Every other hobby involves costs of several pounds per hour typically, while gaming can be well shy of 1 per hour if you buy the right games cheap.

    Of course, if one wants one can spend much monies on their gaming hobby. But at its core, it's a very cheap pastime - 150 for an old/second hand console (family Christmas present), borrow some mates' games, buy some cheap in sales or second hand, and fill your free time on very little pocket money

    * okay, there are others like teaching yourself harmonica and drawing, but you get my gist. ;)
    Reply +2
  • ShiftyGeezer 28/08/2016

    @UncleLou :
    Hence also the new models, which arguably will be what this gen should probably have been from the start. But then consoles are only allowed to cost so much or people won't buy them.
    So no new generation after PS360 until 2016 - 11 *years* between generations?!

    You can't blame the console companies for the problem of diminishing returns. The current consoles are fine. PS1 played 3D in crap res at crap framerates and we loved it. The problem is 3D rendering is just bloody complicated and demanding - if every console and PC was 6 TFs, we'd have prettier games running at low framerates because people always push the pretties. Go try SotC on PS2 if you've forgotten this. ;)

    As you say in brackets, it's really the gamers. If they refused to buy
    Reply 0
  • ShiftyGeezer 28/08/2016

    @FMV-GAMER that alone kind of tells you the "value" gamers put into being given the chance to rent a few older, indie or poorly received games each month.
    Your language and misrepresentation here shows your being partisan and not at engaging in a fair discussion. The situation is more complex than that.

    But my main point about costs is that this PC seems to have a bloated price as it could be 380 less expensive with the exact same performance?.
    Again, a fair point and fair argument. Don't mess it up with the usual fanboy language that the PC v console debate attracts, and there'll be an intelligent consumer-focussed discussion to be had.

    As I commented earlier, I'd love to see a new DF budget PC as things have greatly changed, and PC is probably better value than ever at the entry level. I'd certainly like to know what that is (out of curiosity - got a PS4 as a gift, don't game that much, and will get PS+ even though I didn't on PS3 as the game library that builds is great value for a casual gamer like me).
    Reply +3
  • ShiftyGeezer 28/08/2016

    @FMV-GAMER : There's certainly a fair price comparison to be made, but you're not making it here. If you are going to compare PS4 price at launch, you should compare it to the PC price at that same time, not the current price and spec. Then if you are going to find deals for PC, you should do the same for PS4 - PS+ can be had for 35 a year. Then you need to factor in the value of the PS+ games library.

    And then you need to factor in the different use cases. Someone who only buys and plays a few games a year, and shares games with friends by lending disks, is going to have a very different value case to some hardcore gamer buying 50 games a year.

    Ultimately, the price consideration is a fairly complex question, with different parameters for different consumers. Very, very few people on either side of the argument present a fair case. When I've looked at this before with some, sensible folk, I've found that PC has a higher initial cost that's pretty unavoidable, for which you gain the advantages of having a PC to do other stuff beyond gaming, but a non-console experience meaning different use experience and other oddities like lack of couch coop in some titles that feature it on consoles. PC is definitely a more reasonable alternative for consoles this gen than a couple of gens ago, not least because consoles now have patch and crash issues, but it's not a shoe-in and no-one with common sense would generalise one platform is overall better (for everyone) than another.
    Reply +7
  • ShiftyGeezer 28/08/2016

    I don't think anyone wants to discuss consoles in this thread,this thread is for the discussion of PC.
    Opening comment...
    you have to wonder what added value a console can still offer compared to this.
    An invitation to discuss the value proposition of consoles versus PC.
    Reply +8
  • ShiftyGeezer 28/08/2016

    @George-Roper : Fair enough, which is where polite correction can be valuable.

    My own personal opinion, I was in two minds regards PC or PS4 this gen, only needing a GPU to add to my PC. But there have been enough general PC and Windows issues (not game specific, but just operating the computer) for me to be turned off Windows. Also I was buying into the "one Windows for all" idea of MS, but getting a Surface Pro 4 and experiencing first-hand how lousy MS's tablet experience is, I definitely don't want Windows as my phone and tablet OS. So without game portability, there's little benefit to owning a PC for gaming.

    I'd certainly like to see a new DF budget PC to see if PC can compete on price, which is another major factor. I know, I know, software prices, Steam sales...heard all the arguments already! But for Joe Public, entry level hardware cost is a significant purchasing decision, so the pro-PC argument has to factor that in if they want to sway potential console buyers to PC.
    Reply +1
  • ShiftyGeezer 28/08/2016

    @George-Roper : No Man's Sky.

    No need to be so defensive. If you want to challenge someone's misconception, ask them for examples and contest them respectfully. It's quite possible Some_Goats is mistaken, operating under an outdated view of PC gaming, and could benefit from some correction.
    Reply +9
  • ShiftyGeezer 28/08/2016

    @George-Roper : offering an opinion isn't having a go. Reply +34