Calgon Comments

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  • Phil Harrison on Xbox One: "digital is an unstoppable force"

  • Calgon 26/09/2013

    @vizzini I remember schooling you way back on the GPU differences, you made huge leaps of faith without grasping the basics and often ended up back peddling and in the end conceding mistakes quite which I did give you credit for, so dont talk down to people like you are some scientist or expert because you are not. You are an enthusiast who has a deep seeded bias that clouds all your judgments meaning alot of what you say is heavily skewed or dismissive to the opposition.

    A)Sony loved revealing that, they sold the super computer in a console with PS2, they were most likely offered at a cut price for good press.

    B)Cell was the stronger CPU at simple floating point that was never contested. Cracking code and video games are completely different I cant believe you are running that logic.

    C)Cell might have also been better suited to running a network of machines on the same task. Again nothing to do with video games.

    Xbox 360 has and still is holding its own(even topping PS3 for some things) after all these years. This vast gulf in power you bought into never materialized and you MR SCIENTIST are left in denial. ;)

    Had to fit that last post in. Just ignore the PS4 Elitists, if only there was some other place they can go, to discuss how much better Sony are like PS4 articles and forums etc?
    Reply +2
  • Calgon 26/09/2013

    @Sci0n Carmak's recent comments might be worth a look not at all like Sony fanboys were hoping for.

    I'm neutral as it stands but really most of the stuff going on here is completely unnecessary isn't it?

    I'll decide when or if either console is worth it at the right price point when the games are out that have convinced me. Maybe even build myself a new PC, steambox? I'm not sure about that don't even know how much they are I'm guessing not cheap.

    As for which is most powerful as long as there isnt a huge difference and that isn't looking likely then it's not really an issue. Games and services will help me decide.

    Anyway thats enough of EG for me for a while might just check back when they have been on the market a while and everyone's calmed down/come back down to earth.
    Reply +1
  • Calgon 26/09/2013

    @vizzini have you even heard yourself? Cringe worthy doesn't begin to cover it. Some David Brent stuff going on there in your head for sure. Reply +2
  • Calgon 26/09/2013

    @electrolite If you think for a second anyone neutral would see you as the voice of reason you like to believe... you are fooling yourself. He's right... read through find a simple enthusiastic comment about an Xbox One article and look at the negs. Deny that and dont even bother responding to me because you'll have shown yourself to lack enough integrity to make any discussion worth while. He's every reason to be frustrated IMO hence some of his remarks, its turned EG into a bit of a joke of late. Reply +1
  • Calgon 26/09/2013

    I think anyone who has pre-ordered an Xbox One is glad the likes of some of these people wont be polluting the Xbox Live network with their presence and I think most neutral minded gamers would feel the same about that. How many times do they need to tell everyone they dont want something, dont rate something, arent going to buy something? Do they expect it to change anybody elses mind that they feel this way? Why are they so surprised that it doesnt change anybody elses mind to the point of obsession?(The frequency of it is obsessive with some, I hardly come here anymore and its more obvious looking from the outside than ever)

    It just looks like most of them click an Xbox article and say to themselves, before even reading a word: "How can I spin this as negatively as possible against MS?" Even the tech stuff that they dont understand one bit, "blah PR for sure... let me google something to make myself feel better from NEOGAF the most impartial forum community ever".

    Then you get those who try and say their behavior is normal... does it happen in other products? yes cars, football teams etc... are these people the norm/majority though? Is it healthy just because its not exactly uncommon? Were you really interested in the topic or is it the fact that you cannot accept people are enthused about a product you dont like?

    The sooner people forget about these silly little "console wars"(sometimes I wonder if its a something dreamed up drive sales while their fans clamber to find boasting material buying$ into every hyped up game being secretly disappointed but hiding it hoping the next time will settle it) the more fun they will have concentrating on the games they have/want not what they dont want/envy etc. Bring back the days when gamers used spend more time enthusing over their games and consoles rather than bitching over "rivals"... that says you're unhappy with what you have if you do the latter.
    Reply 0
  • Xbox One launch line-up revealed

  • Calgon 28/08/2013

    Looks a varied list we wont know just how good either consoles launch games are until they are out though.

    For those of you still expecting a huge performance difference between the 2, cast your mind back to the comments Carmack made just before this generation of consoles were released and now look what he said recently:


    It's almost amazing how close they are in capabilities, how common they are," Carmack said. "The capabilities they give are essentially the same....

    To be really honest, I haven't done rigorous benchmarking so even if I wasn't [under a non-disclosure agreement] I couldn't give you a really honest answer. But they are very close, and very good.
    Personally I've been waiting for his take on it, he's also given Sony the thumbs up for the strides they've made on dev tools for PS4. Although he said he hasn't done "rigorous benchmarking"(while reminding you of NDAs) I find it hard to believe --knowing the kind of guy he is-- that he didn't want to know the answer straight away as much as any other tech geek would have. I think he has a pretty good idea already and very close is a lot different than what many a Sony fanboy were hoping for. In fact as a neutral or someone who intends to own both the best possible scenario would be that they do end up being near enough equal in performance maybe the focus would then switch to the quality of the gameplay experience more for a change.

    As much as twice the amount of ROPs sounds, when you think of the possible fillrate advantage there, remember MS do have a bloody good team in charge of architecture design(they had nothing to do with reliability issues before anyone tries to say... different dept). I have a feeling real world performance will come into play as that seems to be an area they focused on this gen and there may have been more reasons than we know yet for some of their choices... of course this is all gut feeling at this point, it is much better to wait and see.

    Even if there is a noticeable advantage for PS4 in the end, the quality of games, exclusives and features could end up being more important for the majority of gamers. Kinect2 bundled in is a good idea IMO and is a reason for the extra asking price, that cannot be ignored whether you are interested in what it can offer or not(Dare I say it that I'm almost excited to see where they can go with it when everyone will have it?).

    Still not getting either at launch as things stand but starting to kind of look forward to seeing what will be on offer next gen.
    Reply 0
  • Xbox One memory performance improved for production console

  • Calgon 03/07/2013

    Finally something not Anti-Xbox one on Eurogamer that was half worth reading.

    I'm not nearly as interested in all this stuff as I used to be but I will say this, if you have a think back - who has been the company encouraging these my console is more powerful than yours wars?(Sega and Nintendo had all that and learned from it and it was never as bad as this).

    Even the first Xbox before anyone says it, MS did dabble in it but before the specs were announced officially(yes they did market it as the most powerful console available but that was nothing any console maker before hadn't done. They didnt say PS2 was vastly inferior etc) Sony were already saying "ours is more powerful it's all about our top secret Emotion Engine.tm so dont bother with them"(in so many words). For their second console I think MS seemed just sit back and let the hardware do the talking(obviously they do have to respond when claims of "vastly inferior", "not powerful enough for HD" are thrown around, they just told us what it can do and its strengths), they only said you wont see a big difference and for that they do deserve their props(one of the smallest but best moves they've done, planned or not).

    Remember the slating MS got for showing what they actually had in development, how it really looked at that stage? Remember what Sony did in contrast... I know which approach I appreciated more. I do hope MS realise a lot of gamers would rather have it that way and not be tempted to follow suit and play dirty because the temptation must be there with Sony and the press *cough*Eurogamer-that-means-you*cough* constantly pushing for it.

    Can you imagine the bashing MS would get if they started releasing slides and presentations comparing their console to Wii U implying its a piece of crap next to theirs?

    To me its got to the point when I look around recently especially on Eurogamer, that "hardcore gamer" is not a good label to have... I can only imagine anyone looking from the outside must think: bitter, nasty, egotistical, ungrateful, hypocritical(lots of bad traits that the majority these days seem to possess, granted these cases are more vocal but seemingly more numerous than ever before) it almost seems now they take more pleasure than playing GAMES these days in spewing emotional/hateful rants towards the makers of what is essentially a toy and not only that but anyone who happens to simply like it/not share the same sentiment(I'd wager alot of these people would be moaning like nobodies business if even one person joined every PS4 article discussion in the manor they do). Have things really got that bad? What has happened to gaming/gamers? Is the problem that the games aren't as good anymore and they are looking for something to blame?

    Still not buying either at launch, still not decided which to get. If you dont like something dont buy it, dont worry about making everyone elses mind up for them or they may rightly just put you in your place. Can we not just get back to enjoying games and being happy with that?

    Eurogamer Off....
    Reply +2
  • War never changes

  • Calgon 11/06/2013

    Well E3 has made me decide alot of things... NEITHER are worth it on day one unless you are a fanboy of either company.

    I may even build a new PC till things settle down and come down to the right prices for the mainstream. Also people have been high and mighty about piracy ruining the industry for years with so much money at stake and dev houses going bust maybe it is time for us at least see how it pans out(something does have to change there). It's a big risk for MS but how come everyone (especially Eurogamer) has only looked at it from the skeptical angle, have you thought about reasons why it could be good for gaming? If it does lead to more people actually buying the games overall, more risks can be taken, bigger budgets etc, I really think if Sony had have tried anything along the lines of this these very SHILLS on Eurogamer(lost all respect for the staff, no integrity - consistent only in their double standards between MS and Sony) would have written an entirely different piece convincing us Sony is trying to save gaming or make it better for developers.

    People seem to bang on about how great steam is, which is pretty much what MS are attempting to duplicate in console format pretty much, so I will try that out on my new rig and find out if people are overreacting or not about Xbox One.

    The final thing to learn from E3 for me was to do with this website itself, its time for me to stop reading it I think they've reached a new low to the point where they are no longer attempting to hide their bias and double standards... everyone who has found themselves reading through many of these articles and saying "hang on but that applies to sony too" many times in each of them is spot on! Eurogamer Off!

    edit: To clarify since I'm not going to bother replying to anyone anyway. I've not argued with his points(most of them are fair some of them we cannot be sure of yet) I've pointed out the double standards and they did this as people have rightly pointed out at the last E3... it crops up again and again on this website. I'm not sure which I'm buying yet and as I've said it wont be day one. To anyone getting uppity about the people pointing this out, if these companies that take your money for games and consoles are rightly open to criticism why should a website that makes money from the very same people be above reproach? Yes its his own analysis but frankly I dont want opinions with double standards forced down my neck so to speak, did I have to read it? No but I clicked on what I hoped would be a fair analysis, maybe learn a few new things but ended up spotting big gaps and inconsistencies. Thats precisely the point Im finding it so often to the point where I dont feel the need to read much of what is said here anymore, just one reader expressing his opinion to Eurogamer - they believe things and seriously gone down hill, not worth getting upset about *looks at post below*.
    Reply +3
  • Xbox One: developers have their say on specs, self-publishing and TV TV TV

  • Calgon 24/05/2013

    @jimdove76 Or better yet whoever has decided they are definitely buying either at launch based off how little we know about either console or more importantly the games that we'll be able to play.

    Not to mention we don't even know how much they will cost yet. I'm not even close to deciding what I will get, maybe Xbox One maybe PS4... maybe both at some point? Maybe neither since the hardware choices mean if enough games make it over to PC it might be smarter just building your own gaming system(with better specs) and maybe picking up the cheaper slim models for the exclusives you missed later.
    Reply -1
  • Calgon 24/05/2013

    @StooMonster Right arguing semantics now are we? Ok bad phrasing on my part but surely you got my point? I know them, I dont know you at all, they were telling me their "actual experience" even showing me(dont worry I wont ask you to show me playing Kinect) alot of what you said you seem to feel means your opinion means more but it's irrelevant to anything I've said.

    Actually wait let me get this straight... you dont think the people I mentioned are still playing Kinect to this day for the fitness and dancing games?(some people do like these games) They are bloody good for the people who like them, reviews DO back that up.

    Looking at the above points does me not personally having played them have any relevance? Does you having "tried more games than most" have any relevance? They've already found games they like so no it doesn't because they are getting their moneys worth since they really do enjoy those games(and for what they are I dont know what more you were expecting the reviews back this up too). It did find a market... it wasn't a waste of money in everyones eyes. Im not disputing that it was a waste of money for you or trying to tell you what to like but you are not everyone and this sites population isn't necessarily a reflection on the rest of the UK/Europe.

    I am giving Kinect2 a chance because I make my own mind up(thats not to say it hasn't got to convince me, but it did look pretty fast and responsive), theres too much bashing of Kinect, even negging people(saddest form of censorship lol) for saying anything remotely positive about it(which was my point plenty of people do like it, but they arent the types who would come and bash or defend things on a gaming site but since there is a market for them it wasnt a complete failure). Like I said too many people trying to speak for everyone on this site and its not the way to be.
    Reply -8
  • Calgon 24/05/2013

    @StooMonster does it change anything I said in my post? Where was the need to try and convince me everyone hates it when I've just shown in my experience thats not what I've found. I get that you and your family didn't like it but that wasn't the point. Too many people here trying to speak for everyone and it's not the way to be at all.

    As for the amount of band wagon jumping I see among the gaming sites these days I'm just reminded of this(especially when it comes to tech talk)
    Reply -8
  • Calgon 24/05/2013

    @orangpelupa I hear Dance Central and Just dance are a blast too.

    The people who I do know that bought Kinect love it to this day(mainly women... dancing and fitness games, so it wasn't the complete failure some people like to believe because it did find a market)Kinect1 needed more space than I had to play it for any reasonable amount of time so I never bought one. The concept was good but it wasnt accurate enough yet(atleast not for the type of things that would have a chance of swaying hardcore gamers) hence the most successful games were ones that involved big gestures, dancing, exercise etc(and they did it well to be fair)... Kinect2 could well deliver on that vision they had though.

    We dont know enough about Kinect2 yet or the games do we? It sounds and looks much improved so far though to me and I'm actually interested in seeing how far they've taken it and what could be done with it in games.

    Some of us dont just jump on every hate or like band wagon, we look, observe and decide for ourselves when we are ready.
    Reply -8
  • Calgon 24/05/2013

    @wogsy81 Price might be a factor too, in fact bundling Kinect2 with every Xbox One might have just been too expensive ontop of the very best graphics hardware they could manage.

    Kinect2 did look good to me, it looks accurate enough to track subtle movements which means sitting down to play... no need for the geeks who hate kinect to flap their bingo wings in a panic over it just yet then.
    Reply -7
  • Calgon 24/05/2013

    Can someone tell me what has actually been confirmed by MS about the GPU? I have found out now that someone has had a look at the motherboard of Xbox One(how did they get hold of it? How do we know it's final hardware?) so thats the DD3 Confirmed but the GPU? How do they know how many cores it has?(Nvidia said there was a 10% advantage to PS4 on the GPU now someone says 50% who exactly confirmed this?) Estimated off die space? Clock speeds aren't confirmed either and theres alot left to learn before a worthwhile comparison can be made. I've been out of the loop on the Xbox One and PS4 hardware rumors and leaks so just some links with credible sources so I know what has actually been confirmed would be nice.

    Having said that, this quote has me thinking MS have been ready to let Sony take the most powerful crown from day one:

    ...Microsoft engineer, who said in an Engadget interview:

    "We purposefully did not target the highest-end graphics. We targeted more as a broad entertainment play and did it in an intelligent way."
    Its a bit of a shame that they are using the same chip makers, the only thing either side can do is outspend to gain an advantage now it seems, console hardware is becoming less unique(it used to be innovative because of the restrictions) but I suppose the developers will welcome that.

    I'm glad to see others noticing a trend for influencing negativity towards all that is MS/Xbox on Eurogamer but cast your minds back and this is noting new because they did this at the start of last generation too. They fed everyone Sony propaganda, bought into the target renders... pretty much told us how PS3 would blow Xbox360 away. They are quick to question MS and always apologetic for Sony... disagree? Remember that article about "Xbox 360 uses this much power... bad for the environment as well as way less powerful!" (ok that wasnt the title but its how they came across, over the months before and during launch) when it was later found that PS3 actually used MORE power than 360, did they update that article or add another one related to it? No that would make Sony look bad wouldn't it, they couldn't possibly do that.

    Sort it out Eurogamer! Some of us --and I can see Im not the only one with the sense to see through it-- are noticing these double standards and it's making people doubt the very fabric of your collective integrity.
    Reply -14
  • Microsoft reveals Xbox One, due worldwide this year

  • Calgon 21/05/2013

    Not alot of specs confirmed, lots of sites contradicting each other as a result in the last hour. Even if the RAM is DDR3(no confirmation of this from MS, that I've seen anyway or even the embedded ram which can't be overlooked since its all about the bandwidth), or the GPU is slightly behind(no official word on the GPU and MS have in past always outspent Sony on the GPU)... anyone worth listening to will be waiting for concrete in depth specs of what really is under the hood and what its theoretically capable of before even attempting any form of comparison.

    We know Sony always overhype what their hardware can do from Playstation to PS3, why would PS4 be any different?

    I've leaned away from Sony in the past just because of the hipster image(look at some of the cheerleaders here... cringe worthy is not the word) and empty promises but I will give PS4 a fair chance(it shouldnt really matter having the same product as some annoying people I guess). I dont care what anyone says Kinect 2 might actually sway me depending on how far they've taken it(it looked seriously fast in that demo).

    This gen I think I'm going to wait till after launch regardless of what we hear before it, so E3 will have no baring either and I dont think it will be any clearer even after it who's the "winner".
    Reply -7
  • Calgon 21/05/2013

    @cloudskipa Ah yes the bizarre declaration of winner before anything has even begun, to be honest the person appears to be another Sony cheerleader, its been going on for weeks before this event there's scores of them, they were always going to have this reaction... I can see lots of hipster-"hilarious" gifs which they've been keeping for today. Reply -5
  • Kinect Star Wars Review

  • Calgon 13/04/2012

    Is the game shit? Probably Yes.
    Is it Microsofts fault? NO!
    Is it Kinects fault? Try and reason that all you like but you have no clue about the technology if you do, most of you by the sounds of it dont know the first thing about it. Answer is NO!
    Are all Kinect games as shit as you try and make out? NO! We all know this so the way you try and keep it up is just pathetic. Im not in a rush to buy kinect but there are a few now that I'd actually like to play myself. Not as many games as their should be but thats down to the devs.
    Is the Technology behind Kinect worthless? No it pisses on the wii-mote and the Move from a great height from technological standpoint, they used existing tech in an innovative way, Kinect is a different beast. This isnt the mega-cd or the eyetoy either or lets face it a cd player and a webcam neither of which were anything you couldnt buy for a pc already, nothing unique about their hardware or software, the same cannot be said about Kinect(the efforts people have gone to with Kinect hacks PC side already is evidence enough).

    Personally I think MS should have launched the hardware first on the PC and buisness markets for none gaming purposes, recoup some of the R&D costs there and wait for a time when they could bring out a more refined version for Gaming purposes without selling at a loss. Gamers are on the whole stubborn and pedantic little creatures, the damage has probably already been done from the looks of it here, if they have their minds set against something, good luck changing it no matter what you accomplish(they wont even look at the games in most cases, in their minds they "just know".). Having said that, they have shifted quite alot of them so who knows how much they have made back.

    I think the problem was MS forgot who they are dealing with, I give them credit for being ambitious enough to launch right away but clearly there was too much that they had to get right BEFORE they launch it as a gaming device where speed and accuracy are paramount.

    The accuracy(exagerated by the haters but could be better and even needs to be for the hardcore market), speed/lag(again exagerated), playing distances, sitting down to play naturally probably can and will be rectified with further hardware revisions. I'd say if they do release a successor to Kinect, that WILL be the one they should have launched with in the first place.

    Do I want to still use a controller? Yes for some games I will probably always prefer that but I think if MS or more accurately a developer can show me a better and more natural way of doing things in certain types of games I'm all for it. I doubt they would make the mistake of forcing Kinect like some of you are scared of, the best way would be to offer both control methods and actually prove the other way is better and then let gamers join of their own accord.
    Reply -2
  • 343 confirms Halo 4 is native 720p

  • Calgon 12/03/2012

    I will repost this from the supposed "best looking xbox game ever" article, since it was olded by the time I commented.

    If anyone is qualified on Xbox360 to say which game has the best engine or graphics its Corrinne Yu IMO(she's a female John Carmack, take a look at the link below and you will see what I mean). Wasn't she part of the XNA team who had to take a look at other peoples game engines and sometimes help them out if they were having performance issues? She's also given quite a few developer presentations and interviews if you look around(the only dev who has bothered to go into any detail on what they do know about the XCPU and what room for improvement there is ect). So if she is saying that this engine/game is the business, then I'm quite looking forward to seeing what they've got there.

    Recent interview with Corrinne Yu Principal Engine Architect at Microsoft Games, “Best in Engineering" award winner at GDC 2009

    Reach was pretty impressive for the most part, if you are trying to say it wasn't then clearly you've not seen enough of what it had to offer(probably just read online "sub HD" and wrote it off) and as far as performance issues went, I've got to say it must be dependent on the difficulty setting because it seemed handle everything that was thrown at it rather well. I cant remember it tearing, and although it did drop frames it was nothing anywhere near "coming to a crawl"(and the times that it did were that hectic that it was easy to look past it).
    Reply 0
  • Sony makes gargantuan £1.3 billion loss during third quarter

  • Calgon 02/02/2012

    @GreyBeard

    Maybe they just didnt agree with a lot of what you said, you claimed you knew that the deflated Yen was the reason(it will have an effect but not to this extent surely you dont believe that), but most sources on the subject of Nintendos losses point at a declining handheld market which has been a big earner for them(the rise in smart phones and cheap smart phone games being the culprit) as for the natural disasters that would actually have an effect I agree but from their Japan sales only.

    Even looking closely at the numbers(although probably not as bad as it first appears taking the figures here at face value) you can't safely assume "all is well" with Sony and the Playstation business on the whole. It doesn't look quite to be going quite as smooth as you seemed to be trying to say is all, although I do fully expect to see a PS4 to be fair.

    edited: For clarity and typos... 5times. Thats all from me here anyway found this news surprising but Im sure Sony will handle it some way or another.
    Reply +2
  • Calgon 02/02/2012

    Well personally I always saw PS3 coming in 3rd place at the start of this gen, I never saw them making big losses near the end of this gen though(does not look good at all), this is where they all expect to rake in the the profits before moving on to the next gen. Well I'm not a fan of the Playstation brand personally(I believe Sega would still be going strong if not for Sony too but that's not the reason) but I think it would be sad for any of the platform holders to pull out, competition is healthy, plus there are a lot of people that do care(some a little too much but the same could be said about cars and what not) about their brand that would feel severely let down.

    Ah good old Vizzini spouting SDF damage control and technical dribble since 2006(sometimes seems to know what he's talking about, others when he's really reaching because he's blinded by his sheer bias for Sony... not so much lol).

    P.S: I thought about leaving a taunt to the aggressive PS3fanboys which have plagued the internet over the years and done Sony's image no favours but... oh dear I just commented about them didn't I, well I will stop there, that's all from me on that. :0
    Reply +3
  • Next Xbox GPU based on £50 Radeon HD 6670 card - report

  • Calgon 01/02/2012

    I will beleive it when I see it, MS have always been forward thinking when it comes to the GPU in their machines(probably a little moreso than the CPU but I think they will have learned alot from the Xenon project). Xbox's NV2a was based on tech slightly ahead of its time, although pretty much just little bits already planned for the NV25 aka GeForce 4. Xbox360s Xenos was even more forward thinking and much more of a custom design, this was probably thanks to learning their lessons from Xbox(they have some very smart people on the XNA Team now IMO, formerly the Xbox Advanced Technology Group) and switching to ATI who Im geussing were more relaxed/co-operative and allowed MS more control/input.

    Aside from the disasterous decision to skimp on testing to get it out for the christmas run-in which has cost them over a billion(I wonder what would have happened had they recognised how big the fault was, delayed it and shipped with something closer to the Elite machines from the start sometimes) the rest of what they did was a pretty damn big success in many regards. I think it would be a mistake to try and out Nintendo, Nintendo(although they can always try and capture some of that market by all means) and a step back for them since they'd lose a lot of their existing fanbase and lets face it, although its taken a lot of time and money to get this far they have come a long way.

    I could be wrong but Im thinking this is bogus for now, although he could have been guessing rather than making an informed estimation Carmack said he expects something more in the way of 10x more powerful overall for the next consoles from Sony and MS, this would be half that.
    Reply 0
  • MS: Xbox exclusive games, DLC "critical"

  • Calgon 19/08/2011

    Gecks, So glad somebody old enough to remember Sony are nothing like Nintendo or Sega, Sony owe most of their success to taking 3rd party from Sega(Sega lost out the most since they were percieved as catering for the mature gamer) and Nintendo, "Sony only did this by splashing their cash around whenever they saw a game or studio they wanted... outspending the competition from their profits in electronics industry and spoiling everyone's fun, things were so much better without them"... Notice the quote marks Im just mimicking a no nothing Sony fanboy spouting crap.



    I will never have sympathy for Sony after the tricks they pulled when they entered the market and since MS entered the market its Sony who have suffered like Sega did when they entered, Nintendo seem to be doing more than fine(I don't see many real Nintendo fans with an Axe to grind about MS these days oddly enough), MS have done a lot of good, they've made Sony and Nintendo push harder than they ever would have done before(prices, technology, on-line gaming... you really think PS3 on-line would exist in the form it does now without MS' influence? No way would they have invested so much this soon without it) .



    I just love the hypocrisy of it all though, when you get self righteous Sony fanboys with such an unjust sense of entitlement, like Sony own gaming and Sony winning any little battle fills them with some sort of accomplishment for themselves. I do think MS need more exclusive games but they are only a plus point if they are genuinely good games, I've seen people play some shit over the years and pretend its good just because its exclusive, just because they feel like they are getting something other people aren't. This includes adults who are behaving like this, its all so tedious and childish... the more I see it in people the more I think its maybe time to find another hobby for grown ups(its no wonder none gamers share that view looking at some of the "Adult" gamers here and on the other popular gaming sites) or maybe just stop visiting gaming sites so I can forget how messed up the core audience can be.
    Reply +2
  • Digital Foundry vs. E3: Microsoft

  • Calgon 08/06/2011

    Wrong again Vizzini...This just a repeat of last time we had a discussion you kept on and on that I was wrong and that it was me who needed to inform myself, also posting titbits which were irrelevant to your argument. Again gamma wont even be an issue for any decent dev and its NOT an indication of system power in any way shape or form, I cant believe you are trying to make out it is, it has no baring on performance and wont impact the artists intended vision when handled adequately, its just making you look like you are grasping at straws and highlights what little substance your belief that PS3 is on another level is based on... built your foundation on sand springs to mind.



    PS3s CELL(the one that has relevance here... ) has been bested by modern PC CPUs easily for gaming performance(anyone suggesting otherwise is out of their minds and loses all credibility), add to that the fact that CELLs main strength is actually done better on GPUs for the modern PC side of things(they do a much better job of it... which is we you see things that even with the ram PS3 would have no hope of achieving) and you start to sound like you dont have an Effing clue what you are talking about... again. ;)



    "Triangle throughput of ~450M hard limited in the Xenos and still unconfirmed in the RSX by only vertex processing figures listed at 1.1billion, and debated where ~1.09billion polys (via optimised quads) or ~360million (via unoptimised polys using 3 independent vertices). "



    As for this, Triangle "set up" Xenos: 500Million RSX: 250Million(from the similarities it shares with the G70 core and the fact that we have been given no reason to beleive different... oh but Sony didnt come out and say it so its unconfirmed, wonder why hmmm ;)... ), also I told you last time Xenos has the potential to trounce RSX in Verticle performance(think ALU allocation within a unified shader architecture... 1.1billion? try 6.0billion with all Xenos' 48ALUs and lets not forget texture and vertex fetch if we are moving away from raw theoretical limits ;)...), you've just used common marketing ploys GPU Makers have used for ages, strips, quads and meshes... both GPUs figure's can be manipulated by them in the exact same ways. You've also glossed over vertex and texture fetch and how the two differ in that regard, heres a hint Xenos comes out best there. Even without telling you that its pretty obvious looking at cross platform that 360 handles high poly environments better than PS3, but naturally you will point to the devs and everything but the RSXs ability to handle high poly counts as the reason for it. Also Xenos has something much more useful than any texture format you care to mention on RSX and thats CUSTOM texture formats if you had even bothered to look into that you'd know theres room to explore there for 360 devs(yet I think MS just dont invest much in first party anymore so thats a shame as they should lead the way as Sony first party do), combined with the tesselator, added to the fact that Xenos' ALUs process everything internally at FP32( or128-bit floating point before you roll that out as if PS3 is the only console that can manage it again) ... I know which I would rather have and its certainly not an aged texture format that RSX cant really do much with anyway.



    As for your tripple buffering at 30FPS "win" for the PS3, and FP16 HDR(which you forgot to trumpet) the only reason for this is all to do with the 10MB eDram framebuffer(nothing to do with what the ALUs can handle or how well), PS3 devs themselves would choose the 10mb eDrams benifits over tripple buffering and FP16 HDR(which isnt even noticably better than 360s FP10 if handled right... some devs have shown this already). Its quite simple theres too many benifits for fitting the framebuffer into the edram than doing it any other way, they arent really needed if the engine itself is up to scratch, so for exclusives or 360 led games its a none issue.



    Really Vizzini you've never convinced me you are an expert in any area, not everthing you write is BS but that could easily be cut and paste and it doesnt always mean you understand it. I just find you a little desperate to impress and like I said eager to convince yourself you know the PS3 is significantly more powerful, Im pretty sure it isnt myself and I beleive I know what Im talking about more than you do personally so theres not much more to say to each other.
    Reply +1
  • Calgon 08/06/2011

    BuckEntropy, I stopped reading Vizzini's ill-conceived babel when it became apparent that he will latch on to things he doesnt yet fully understand, notice how his posts are worded like he's just joined up some 'cut and pastes' taken from some whitepapers with a lil bit of Vizzini spin tacked on what he thinks it all means(which is often not what it means at all) at the end. Yeah I remember him having to conceed Xenos' architecture is infact more advanced than RSX... eventually after about 15 lengthy posts trying to explain to him, its just not worth wasting your time on.



    He just doesnt understand Gamma Correction in regards to games, cross platform it can be problem yes(if the 360 is lead PS3 could end up with gamma that looks off and vice versa) and the hardwired gamma correction curve isnt as close to the real SRGB curve as it could be(none of them are 100percent accurate btw, nobody will have a gaming display that is even close either, this isnt photography we are dealing with) but if you know this from the beginning you will not get crushed blacks at the end because you will change your assets accordingly so for exclusives or 360 led titles theres no excuses for the gamma not being how the artists intentended it to be(plenty of examples to show crushed blacks and what not are a product of lazy development on 360, theres no excuse for it in this day and age).



    As for the rest of what he said... I didnt even waste my time reading it, he's just trying to convince himself more than anyone else IMO(thats what it looks like to me, the obsessive nature and consistency of his ramblings), that PS3 is on another level to 360 where it clearly isn't(the time for excuses is over, CELL can no longer be considered new or misunderstood, certainly not to the big names in the game, get over it and just enjoy your games ffs, it doesnt really matter that much, even though you are wrong sorry ;)..), ask any respected 3rd party guru(Carmack being arguably the most respected and experienced Game Engine Architects out there).



    In closing, its time you CELL worshipers got a new hobby, its old hat now, plus how can you care that much when theres PC games out now with a level of fidelity and richness that no console out now has a hope of replicating with any accuracy.
    Reply -1
  • Xbox 360 vs. PlayStation 3: Round 30

  • Calgon 19/04/2011

    It may have become a cliche to mention ownership of both consoles but how else can anyone try and be seen as honestly unbiased?



    There's always bias thats usually the whole point of them mentioning they own more than one console in the first place, take a look at some of the people who have mentioned that here from both sides, they just use it to inflate the value of their own opinion ie "anyone who disagree's with me which is best, is clearly wrong and cant possibly have played both... must be a Xbot/Sony fanboy" I find it hilarious they actually beleive that though, just stop trying to find reason in the majority of vocal gamers in general is the best advice I think.



    Edit: @BuckEntropy- Just read that, one of the best posts here in a long time, couldnt agree more... its just too hard to swallow for some even after all this time. Which explains the sentiment of "Everybody hates RL" and "anyone who prefers that shitbox 360 is obviously a blinkered Xbot" thats been lingering for a while now. Im glad RL has actually continued how he started(just telling it how it is with the facts and what he makes of it all) and just let all the "hate" go over his head, I can respect people like that(I've noticed a that some have taken to cherrypicking the facts now its a bit closer... bits from DF and bits from lense of truth but they are both worthless sources when it suits them lol).
    Reply +1
  • Face-Off: Crysis 2

  • Calgon 25/03/2011

    Lol it amazes me how people defensively make statements such as "360 comes out slightly ontop overall" as hyperbole or totally "one sided and biased" as if it's the most personal thing ever.



    Then turn round and posture themselves as the ones who are the level headed ones. Its beyond the joke, who do they think they are fooling really?



    Its not about one console "winning" for me anyway, there's no denying that a certain section of the gaming community is yet again eating their words... and from the way they have consistantly behaved since before the start of this gen I have no sympathy for them really, if it stings that much you probably have yourself to blame for hyping your favoured console up to be something it isnt, neither console is considerably more powerfull than the other.



    All of whats happened up to now just cements my beleif further, theres simply not a game on PS3 that a 360 dev couldnt match, given the same freedom(from a development/coding perspective), budget and time constraints and vice versa. They have some similarities(paralelisation, data fragmentation ect something which probably brings PS3 to mind for most people actually benifits 360 performance too, it's something alot of devs who've led on PS3 were suprised to find apparently) and some glaring differences too, so its just about approaching the development in a way that suits the hardware your working on best from start to finnish to get the best performance out of it. Multiplatform devs dont have that option though so they have to comprimise somewhere along the line, if one platform has cycles or fillrate to spare on one task you spend them elsewhere where the other platform has the advantage, balancing all the bells and whistles till as close to as parity as they can acheive is reached.



    I dont think anyone can argue Crytek didn't do a pretty good job on the whole, as a multiplatform engine goes its impressive, its also a good thing that they spent the time to do this for console fans(well atleast 360 and PS3).



    Neither console can be considered bad really for what they are but both are way behind now compared to modern gaming PC hardware, everybody should know this so bringing it up is a bit pointless in a console debate.
    Reply -1
  • Calgon 25/03/2011

    I thought your behaviour was foolish which is why I used fool and tit, your game is poor and obvious and its not going to work, you cant address me in person like that(again where did I address you or anyone else personally in that post... tisk tisk) and then tell me you arent getting worked up because thats not what it looks like.



    I was bang on the money about the reaction the ps3 fanboys would have, nuff said, its just too predictable and I knew that even mentioning it would prevoke a response from kneejerkers like yourself who posture themselves as objective bystanders but are anything but. :)



    Anyway like I said there was no rant its quite amusing how predictable they are sometimes really. Thats all from me anyway, might aswell delete these last 4 throw away posts replying to people like yourself on whos a fanboy and whos not, that never gets old does it *sarcasm*.
    Reply +1
  • Calgon 25/03/2011

    funkateer nah resolution and framerate went to 360(overall, the 360 did get a bit more erratic when the action heated up in certain sections but that was dipping and rising above the PS3 rates which only seemed more stable not higher on average... that says to me PS3 got perahps got more time in optimisation but thats neither here nor there) the rest was nitpicking which is pretty much what I said, 360 on balance comes out "slightly" ontop... there was no rant from me at all, I just know thats most likely what the PS3 fanboys have been doing whining. Looks like I hit a nerve since that was met with a little hostility from a few of you. :) Reply +2
  • Calgon 25/03/2011

    @bladdard - Problem with that is he called me out you fool! Hmmm jumping to someones defence so foolishly and wrongly like that does indicate you have bias of your own....



    The irony :-o /*head explodes more than yours*/ *sarcasm*



    Jeebus all this posturing to be the coolest and cleverest does get old fast, Im glad I dont bother with gaming forums much anymore. Funny though in moderation like now! :D
    Reply -2
  • Calgon 25/03/2011

    Goodfella oh please you are one of the least objective members going, your opinion is of no interest to me, glass houses son! Reply +2
  • Calgon 25/03/2011

    Ok so I'm not even going to read the comments here, for a game that was hyped up by its developers to be the first multiplatform engine that takes full advantage of PS3 hardware, even hinting at PS3 having the edge which got a certain crowd of gamers behind the game bigtime... for it to turn out actually slightly better on 360? Again? Ouch... maybe they will finally admit 360 is actually more than a match for the PS3 when it comes to gaming performance even with the power of the CELL(I seem to recall the developers stating this was the case, full SPU usage, in depth SPE code optimisation too, these devs will have had access to the latest optimisations done by other Sony devs, Crytek are also a talented bunch themselves easily a match for any 1st party Sony dev), then again we are talking about PS3 fanboys here.



    Yeah I kind of know exactly how this thread has likely gone on ... Something to the effect of:



    "Richard is a ****, he's on M$ payroll... look at this post from this random guy that says the PS3 version is actually way better... I prefer that one but its not because Im a biased fanboy! I own all console its just Sony kick ass and stuff"





    So anyway what do we have? Higher res, higher framerate, water effects looked better on 360 to me oddly(but maybe that was the resolution making them much clearer)... You can nitpick about the other stuff like anisotropic filtering, textures, shadows for and against both sides but there really isnt a huge difference in any of them and when you factor in the difference in fillrate(res, framerate) on balance it is the 360 that comes out slightly ahead... thats the key phrase "on balance" PS3 fanboys were desperate for a "win" here so I wouldnt expect a subjective view from them, to them blurrier image quality is:



    "oh thats erm... its actually superior motion blur effects, done on the SPUs"



    or



    "oh wait no... maybe its superior depth of feild... or both... yes its both!"



    Now I was expecting maybe an edge in higher precision motion blur and maybe that is present(dont really like the effect to begin with so I dont care) but its kind of funny how half of the difference will infact be because of the lower resolution which is something I noticed instantly myself, the 360 version does look sharper. Funny how some people turn a negative into a positive so readily though. :)



    Another good article Richard, glad there are people out there not afraid to tell it how it is.
    Reply +1
  • YourShape - first 15 minutes

  • Calgon 05/11/2010

    This is one of the better Kinect games, Dance Central, Kinectimals and Your Fitness are all polished and well executed, the rest vary in quality. Not a bad launch though if we remember devs are still learning and Kinect is still improving software side.



    I saw the Giant Bomb guys do a better job of demonstrationg this game, Ellie kept doing the wrong gestures in the first part of this, the menus are easier if you remember the circle needs time to fill for every selection you make(I think it would be better if they just let you punch them or something instant), also for the block hitting you are supposed to punch across your body not straight to the side, like she told you to do(the Giant Bomb guys made that look easy and quite fun).
    Reply 0
  • Hot Pursuit PS3/360 demo showdown

  • Calgon 28/10/2010

    djronz I think the first paragraph covers that nicely you just choose to deny it. The offensive comment was deliberatly used with a smiley just like his potshot at Miiiguel was(I knew you'd try and use that though), who didnt get personal with anyone(there is deffinately a big problem with SDF clogging up 360 articles with bile on EG everybody knows this), it was man.the.king getting defensive.



    edit: I suggest you read my words properly, he got personal with miiiguel because he got defensive have a read up(went something like the person above me is just a big 360 fanboy who needs to STFU... in so many words)... adding a smiley at the end as if he wasn't getting all personal when he most certainly was. So then I made a personal/insulting remark and added a smiley on the end and it wasn't ok, you follow? ;)



    edit: Im not emotionally invested in this situation at all sorry to break it to you man.the.king your level of wit can only invoke pity and perhaps laughter. You do seem to be DESPERATELY trying to save face like theres a big EG audience waiting on our every word(nobody cares you buffoon get over yourself) or something, I think its funny really, which is why I suggested you need to get a life. Another laugh was had when you suggested missplaced ego? Coming from you! :) Haha you are funny, sorry man.the.king but I've got your number. ;)
    Reply -9
  • Calgon 28/10/2010

    The RL bias thing has been maturely discussed in a number of these face off forums



    Oh I see I get your point kind of like how teletubbies is considered mature veiwing... or not.
    Reply -8
  • Calgon 28/10/2010

    man.the.king Im sure you think you are a respected member here and a shining example of impartiality, wit and maturity, sorry to burst your bubble but you need to get out more and stop crying because you beleive your favourite console or console maker is being picked on. :(



    Get a fucking life. :) *see we can all add smilies to offensive comments or sly potshots at other members to hide our true sentiments/agendas*



    There was nothing immature about it, you and your kind are indeed ruining the site for others and spitting your dummy out at Richard every other week for not replicating your own pro PS3/Sony sentiments, this is insecure and immature behaviour. Do you see me posting Halo Reach or Gears of War comments in unrelated PS3 articles? No because Im not a troll, I'm happy for others to have their own preferences, it makes no difference to me whatsoever I understand that much, Im not at all wrapped up in the "console war" like you seem to be.
    Reply -12
  • Calgon 28/10/2010

    You can deny it all you want but thats what most of you SDF clowns look like, just because you agree with each other doesn't mean you are the majority it means you are all sad enough to think you have any kind of authority on the matter.



    Impartial is not a word anyone would use to describe you, man.the.king(or DjRonz... and before either of you predictably tell me "I have 360 so Im not a troll its just PS3 is better" or any other braindead logic you want to come up with as a poor excuse for your behaviour) it's laughable with your attitude that you are trying to suggest bias in RL and pointing the finger at Miiiguel who was obviously having a joke at the resident SDF trolls... of course they dont exist according to you I guess yet I'll bet anyone randomly visiting who posses no bias would pick up on this on going theme where members feel the need to troll because "everyone loves the 360 more and are jealous Xbots with hidden agendas... so I will bitch and troll and insert PS3 hype even when it has no place whatsoever in the thread"
    Reply -11
  • Lucas explains Force Unleashed II tech

  • Calgon 26/10/2010

    vizzini did you completely ignore my post or what? Seriously you arent in any place to try and fool yourself theres anything you can teach me about GPUs... I've absolutely shown that already, you are either missinformed, ignorrant or being EXTREMELY selective with some of the conclusions you have come to.



    You still don't seem to understand what the different OpenGL/DirectX and OpenCL specifications and compliance mean in the world of graphics



    I understand them a hell of alot better than you do especially DirectX... you dont seem to know where the G70 stands at all or have been desperately selective and dissmissive of the KEY features.



    Here is the wiki, which clearly states from Sony's own press releases that the GPU supports 128bit precision...



    Another feature that has been around since the GeForce6(NV40, ATI had it also since the X1000)? Heres a fact I will teach you, Xenos also supports 128 bit precision(again I think you confused by what this means, its actually 4*32, because you have 32bit floats in each color channel RGBA) , remember when I told you that Xenos ALUs will process everything at FP32 internally?. DX10 did away with partial precision and demanded 32-bit (128-bit for RGBA) floating-point precision, the Xenos ALUS are not unlike the R600 in this regard.



    So with that in mind take a look at this:



    R600 Unified Shader architecture details



    Just in case you are too lazy to check the links I provide which you should since they solidly back up everything I say unlike anything you've provided for your case:

    Unified Superscalar Shader Architecture



    * 320 stream processing units

    o Dynamic load balancing and resource allocation for vertex, geometry, and pixel shaders

    o Common instruction set and texture unit access supported for all types of shaders

    o Dedicated branch execution units and texture address processors

    * 128-bit floating point precision for all operations





    Again I state all you have is an architecture which was introduced with the NV40(I have two GPUs one onboard and one PCI-E from the GeForce 7 line that have these features you mentioned and they aren't the big deal you make them out to be I know this, they are considered DirectX9.0c and OpenGL2.1 compliant like the G70/RSX, as an aside an X1900 would be DirectX9.0c and OpenGL2.0), the G80 was what brought GeForce inline with DX10, did you read my link? Or did you ignore that too? Ignorrance seems to be your biggest fault here Vizzini the RSX is based on the G70 core not G80, Xenos is deffinatley closer to the DX10 spec and further ahead than RSX is... you can burry your head in the sand and ignore everyone else with any sort of authority on the subject or just accept it because you have nobody on your side there.



    Here's a quote from that link about the G80 designed for DX10:



    "For the past few years, we've really just been seeing reworked versions of old parts. NV40 evolved from NV30, G70 was just a step up from NV40, and the same is true with ATI as well. Fundamentally, not much has changed since the introduction of DX9 class hardware. But today, G80 ushers in a new class of GPU architecture that truly surpasses everything currently on the market."





    Vertices to polygons numbers: roughly 1:1



    Everybody who knows anything about GPUs knows this is a marketing ploy everybody has heard it before, this shows that you do not understand how this translates into realworld performance because it never works that way for developers, they they do use strips and meshes where possible but to say 1:1, you will never see this and the fact that you CUT AND PASTE it here to support your argument has shown me how little you really know.



    Yes RSX has 250 Million Triangles/sec vs Xenos' 500 Million Triangles/sec this is due to the triangle setup speed of each GPU, its documented and correct. If you are going to talk plainly vertices though, you should know those figures from Sony were given before the clock speed limit was put in place(from 550MHz to 500MHz) so it will be 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec how does this compare to Xenos? I hear you cry, I'm glad you asked:



    Vertex Shader Processing (Vertex ALU x Clockspeed / 4)

    Xbox 360 - 6.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)

    Xbox 360 - 2.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using 16 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)

    Xbox 360 - 1.5 Billion Vertices/sec (using 12 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)

    Xbox 360 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using 8 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)

    PS3 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec



    That is the advantage of a unified shader architecture, granted we will never see 6.0 Billion Vertices but it goes to show Xenos has the edge here(plus you have to account for vertex and texture fetch or anything else that may tie up the RSX ALUs), as for the slides Sony showed of the RSX before launch(Did you expect a fair and honest comparison from Sony of all companies? If we left it to Nvidia and ATI to tell us which GPU trumps the other thered be no need for the countless benchmarking and hardware review sites out there, use your head for once)as a finishing point do you really think you have such a strong case anymore since I've addressed pretty much everything you have given me and returned it 3 fold atleast to make the case that Xenos really is the more advanced of the two(all you have is little scraps that dont add up to much at all).



    Edit: Ah good, Im actually suprised to see you have seen where you went wrong and admitted it, thats a good quality and atleast shows it wasn't just about your prefrence for the playstation brand(i.e not trolling). I hadn't looked at GPU Terrain before you brought RGBA32F support to my attention, I can see where people might get confused there.
    Reply +2
  • Calgon 25/10/2010

    Your ignorrance is infuriating I have to tell you, I've never met anyone who acts like they know what they are talking about so much whilst being so innacurate or presumptious.



    There was all the information, substantiation in my previous comment for you to understand why the Xenos is an old card by comparison to a flexible RSX.



    No there wasnt, not only was it incorrect, I PROVED it with much much more substancial evidence that can be backed up... you have nothing but a poor understanding(I think most of what you write is clearly not your own words, I strongly suspect plenty of cut and paste) and speculation on the important aspects.



    RSX is almost a generation behind, you have not shown anything to defeat this well known fact, I will update my original list:



    RSX = Shader Model 3.0 / Discrete Shader Architecture + RGBA32 + scalar architecture

    Xenos = Xbox 360 - Shader Model 3.0+ / Unified Shader Architecture + hardware tesselator+ memexport + custom texture formats ect.



    And knowing that the Xenos can only push 500M/polygons per second, which is below average by today's standards should give you the hint at its feature set; my old OpenGL 2.0 FireGL X2-256 could push 20% more than that.



    Below average by todays standards? Yes thats fair but then this is a discussion between Xenos and RSX, as for the polygons or triangles per second thats also correct:



    Xenos: 500M Triangles/sec

    RSX: 250 Triangle/sec



    But that gives no indication of the feature set at all, its well documented that Xenos was ahead of its time(it has no direct comparison on the PC side but it would be between R300-R580 it considered closest to the R500 or Radeon X1900 as far as features and performance are concerned), where as RSX was based on the G70 and was not ahead of its time at all in any regard. Yes G70 was a *Scalar* design but still using the OLD discrete shader architecture, the R600 brough a superscalar design to the unified shadar architecture and its interesting that it offers 6 instructions per clock cycle just like Xenos does when one of the main benifits of such a design is supposed to be more instructions per cycle.



    The RSX uses a super scalar design, which has enabled all Nvidia's cards for the last 6-7 years to retrospecitively support h/w acceleration of Cuda/OpenCL 1.x/OpenGL 3.x.



    This is what traps the Xenos in the past like an old ATI R300 or R320 chip (using DirectX9c).




    G80 for DX10 vs NV40/G70



    Firstly yes G70 and RSX are technically considered *Scalar* designs and so what? So was the NV40(GeForce6), infact the scalar designs for NV40 to the G70 had real problems with instruction issue, also it should be noted that it was only until the G80 with the introduction of Stream Processors that the kind of DX10 features or general purpose functions you are hinting at were added to the Nvidia family of GPUs.



    Secondly 360 has its own API and tools it doesnt need any of these(CUDA C/Open CL ect) it can do some of things mentioned in the link above but in a different way. So in a way even Nvidia are saying Xenos is more advanced than RSX since they themselves marketed the G80 as a big step forward from the NV40/G70 era.



    Thirdly Xenos is closest to the R500(with extras) stop trying to manipulate things to suit your misguided veiw of the real world. So to summarise the basis of your beleifs here, you are using a design that was introduced with GeForce 6(NV40 and above) to claim technical superiority over all ATI GPUs up to the R580 or X1900 XT? You do make me laugh, you really expected that argument to fly?



    Any functionality on the Xenos can be emulated or improved using OpenCL 1.x on the RSX, with the exception that the card internal wouldn't have the 256GB/sec memory bandwidth of the EDRAM to generate a highly recursive 1080i procedural texture (at that recursion level).



    Thats the funniest thing I've heard in a long long time, who do you think you are fooling, all you've done is out yourself as a SDF propaganist. This is completely incorrect but the funniest thing about this is though even if it were true(which its not) you are talking about emulating hardware features here and acting like RSX has Vertex units to spare, fillrate, bandwidth or even just GPU cycles as a general term when it does not, PS3 is more GPU bound than 360 is.



    Xenos is more flexible than RSX is and more advanced, for RSX you have a scalar design and a couple of texture formats(this does not make the G70 or RSX seem even remotely closer to the DX10 spec than Xenos or R500, Xenos atleast has some DX11 features), compared to custom texture formats, mem-export , unified shaders and a hardware tesselator on a GPU that can be considered much more programmable than RSX.



    I think its safe to say with the above in mind anything you could do with OpenCL 1.x on the RSX can be done more effeciently(more of it done in hardware since neither console has ALUs to spare, especially RSX) and improved upon since they aren't tied to a set way of doing things(think custom texture formats and Mem-export, fixed path tesselator or not this can lead to a lot more experimentation).



    A fixed path tessalator feature addition to DirectX9c is not the same as a flexible GPU that supports geometry shading functionality.



    Don't assume it's me that has this confused, its you I've explained why and you made the same mistake, Xenos does not support geometry shading in hardware Im well aware of that. RSX does NOT support geometry shading either though it's even further away(seriously you are a buffoon and a half... support for a texture format = more advanced than hardware features? Give me a break you clown),there is no geometry shader in RSX... you do realise in todays language when they say this they are refering to hardware?



    Like I said what you are probably confusing here is GPU Terrain... the Hardware *Tesselator* in Xenos has already been used for this kind of thing and water infact and since its hardware that means it isn't eating up vertex shader time whereas on RSX this GPU Terrain method *will* and thats ontop of the texture fetch(which also ties up ALUS) on a GPU that already struggles to keep up with Xenos on the basics.



    *Note to anyone else reading this thread: Yes I realize this is a stupidly long post but I had to get all that off my chest :)*
    Reply +2
  • Calgon 25/10/2010

    Its interesting to see there are people who actually beleive RSX is more advanced/up to date than Xenos with not much at all to back it up. I must admit after taking a look at it, I dont see the big deal about RGBA32F(some uses for terrain and possibly water ect but Id wager the Xenos Tesselator on its own does a better job than the RSX vertex shaders via this method would) but it's apparently something that Nvidia supported since GeForce 6, does it really sound such a plus or so advanced in that respect? It was just something that ATI didn't seem interested in supporting nor MS untill they recently added support for it. Just because NVidia and ATI come up with different features or formats for people to use it doesnt automatically make them an advantage, you'd have to explain why with something like texture formats such as compression ratios, number of components, precision, performance cost(if its too costly on ALUs or bandwidth or memory footprint its not really an advantage as such) and what specific advantages they bring if any over other formats.



    At first glance it looked as though HDR(where RGBA is typically used) was being specifically targeted to make RSX look like its more advanced(where Xenos is clearly the more advanced of the two). Both FP16 and FP32 are supported by Xenos, FP10 as far as Im aware is something that makes sense on 360 because it can sometimes help it fit into EDRAM(and save bandwidth between parent and daughter die) and it's not usually a hugely noticable drop if handled right because the ALUs are always running at FP32 internally and its the output where FP10 or FP16 are available.



    Shader models?



    RSX = Shader Model 3.0 / Discrete Shader Architecture + RGBA32 .

    Xenos = Xbox 360 - Shader Model 3.0+ / Unified Shader Architecture + hardware tesselator+ memexport + custom texture formats ect.



    Xenos will be using a custom version of direct-x which is well known, as far as Direct-X windows features goes Xenos IS more up to date than RSX is, infact in many ways because of xenos' custom features it could practically be considered a generation ahead in this regard.



    It's also interesting that someone is claiming RSX has better texure capabilities? Really? Really does it? I wouldn't say so, there are multi-format games where they already have higher quality(bit depth, precision ect) texture formats than either console version because the PC version can outdo both consoles here it would make sense that they do their textures there first and scale down from there no? So would they deliberately hamper the PS3 version on image quality when more often than not it loses out in other areas such as oh I dont know performance?



    It would be essentially a get out of jail card if they could offer any advantage to the PS3 version in image quality as an excuse for lower performance. Since performance is usually lower perhaps.... call me crazy here but perhaps higher precision and higher bit depths would make the performance even worse specifically because a) Xenos handles texture fetch and vertex fetch ALOT better than RSX does, the 16 Texture Fetch Units and 16 Vertex Fetch Units handle this away from the ALUs unlike with the RSX which uses Pixel ALUs for texture addressing which cannot do both pixel and texture ops at the same time, same goes for Vertex fetch using the RSX Vertex ALUs I beleive, Xenos can handle up to 16 filtered & 16 unfiltered textures = 32 total textures if *IIRC 16 unfiltered means the Vertex Fetch Units could be used for textures if no texture filtering is required*, the 16 Vertex Fetch Units are able to fetch 16 vertex per clock or 16 unfiltered textures. b) Its not like RSX has bandwith or texel fillrate to spare compared to Xenos in the first place.



    Xenos Texures



    As for which formats Xenos does or does not support(if he's trying to say RSX has more of them it would be news to me because I'd say its the other way around if anything), I've never found a full list of unsupported formats(which the above link is not, just mentions the new ones and examples of simple custom texture formats), not even an unofficial one so anyone making such claims should provide their sources or stop making statements plucked from thin air. Xenos actually supports custom texture formats which could prove pretty usefull for first party or exclusive titles, something which hasn't nearly been experimented enough with according to some of the experts which could lead to far more interesting applications(especially since Xenos has a hardware tesselator to boot) than we've seen of any of the things I've seen of the formats he mentioned.



    Wasn't Vizzini rambling about Xenos not even supporting Geometry shading, as if RSX does? Without a tesselator or geometry shader? I've seen something called GPU Terrain and the like but this isn't Geometry Shading, it does use RGBA32F though which is where I think he's become seriously confused about what RSX is capable of.



    Edit: No doubt this will get negged regardless of the accuracy, as I've said before it's pointless bothering with EG comments these days with so many petty SDF trolls bringing the whole site down in reputation little by little. As for the article and the devs accomplishments kudos all around, it's good to see the year they spent on the PS3 code has helped whilst not making the 360 version suffer too much as a result, I don't see a problem there if that's the case.



    *Couple of corrections on the texture addressing differences since I was recalling it from memory*
    Reply +3
  • Face-Off: Vanquish

  • Calgon 25/10/2010

    @funkateer - Id disgree with you there but thats me, if I remember right DF not only explained why(regarding UC2) but PS3 owners were treated to a developer interview with some of the engine architects where they themselves explained how they went about it. I think he has shown that he does understand the PS3's strengths but he also understands its just a peice of a puzzle when comparing systems as a whole, not the be all and end all that many PS3 entusiasts(if you prefer that term? granted not everyone who genuinely likes the hardware/architecture are trolls, infact trolls tend to copy and paste their posts more often than not and give them a bad name) beleive them to be.



    I think Richard may lean a certain way(which I beleive is neutral, he thinks they are evenly matched) but thats not due to lack of information or understanding, there are devs who favour either platform for example but the majority say they are too evenly matched to call it either way, even some of the most respected devs out there such as Carmack has never given us any real indication that one is stronger than the other(even when he was being pushed to say PS3 is stronger near the PS3 launch by some of the interviewers who bought into the hype), he's repeated what we know from the raw specs and said they are even in practice many times when asked for his opinion, that doesn't seem to have changed since the start of this gen.



    So basically from what I see, some of them are expecting the same sentiment they feel and calling *him* biased for not replicating it, ie when there is lower performance seen on PS3, he should say things like: "hmmm they should have scrapped the whole engine here, lead on PS3 and move that workload onto the SPUs, streamed the textures in here, used this kind of lighting instead of that, this kind of AA instead of that and not only would it have suddenly matched 360, it would have blown it to smithereens because with the power of the Cell, PS3 is out of 360s league leaving it no chance of competing even if they tried".



    Thats not going to happen and to expect it only shows its not Richard who needs to modify his bahaviour at all.



    When there is a clear difference he does seem to side with the fault being at the developers citing examples from other devs who did manage the same feats better. For a console such as 360, unless theres something taxing or raising the bar in some respects(ie something that may have been too difficult for them to do without changing too much or spending too much time on), its pretty much a given that theres less excuses for them on 360 because there are too many examples to compare with to show they really should have done a better job of it.
    Reply -2
  • Calgon 25/10/2010

    VandelayIndustries he should be allowed to express his opinion, I think its clear when it is opinion and when its technical in his articles but maybe he would be better off limiting that to a summary at the end or something if it appeases some of the SDF. Personally I dont beleive its anything to do with that though I beleive the SDF will just find fault because they can't handle the facts when they are presented to them. Reply -5
  • Calgon 25/10/2010

    Ilusiil18 speak for yourself mate, I think thats what sets DF appart from the amateurish Lense of Truth, the digital foundry hardware, the developer insights and technical explanations AS WELL AS telling you which is technically superior(which it does alot better than Lense of Truth) to stop people whining about it being biased or untrue(not that it helps with the SDF like bitmapbrother who's dedicated to his job at sony which he does off the books and for free lol). Reply -5
  • Calgon 24/10/2010

    I've looked at many of the posts being negged on EG recently and I'm sure of it now, EG is overrun by SDF saddos(nothing inflamitory or wrong with most of them other than not being pro PS3), always finding something to nitpick about even when they are told its a "PS3 Win" just about. Even when Richard lashes on praise for PS3 exclusives which many PC and 360(ie none PS3 only or Sony fanboys) gamers feel has been a little over the top in some cases to say the least(KZ2, inFamous, MotorStorm), I'd say Richard seems fond of the Playstation brand if anything, he's just able to be professional and more objective than most of the people spitting their dummy out at him every other week.



    So to those trying to claim some superior knowlege where they have none only angst about their favoured platform, get a grip and grow up. Theres nothing at all wrong with only owning one platform or prefering one platform to another, just dont expect everybody to agree which you think is best all the time and accept them both for what they are, two pretty different but pretty evenly match consoles overall.



    So yeah the SDF seem to be winning the "war"(bless um) with their persistant whining(maybe thats an indication of the average age or mental age of the respective audiences?) which is sad since EG used to be alright, there seems to be less 360 owners commenting all around and Im not suprised with the level of maturity displayed, I'm finding clicking the comments link less appealing each time I bother to do it.
    Reply -6
  • Kinect sold out at GAME

  • Calgon 13/10/2010

    xentar oh come on, so because someone found a way to use a standard RGB camera image to do a basic form of skeletal tracking, Move does everything Kinect does now? Sorry no! Just no, that kind of ignorrance only makes you look stupid, the only sense of depth you will get from 1 basic RGB camera is how close or far away objects are away from the camera at best, notice how 2 dimensional the movements were? I sure did, it only serves to show Kinect is indeed a step forward.



    Here is how the "skeletal" tracking works:



    FreeMotion® Skeleton Tracking example



    From a quick glance at Virtual Air Guitar's website we can see theres not only support for PC and Xbox360 here but there's mention of 3D depth camera support too, so it will be interesting if this game ever gets a Kinect version or whether they develop their own Kinect game showing what they can do with it.



    Virtual Air Guitar Technology



    Also none of the naysayers seem to realise the patented technology software side is where alot of the advancements have been made, you expect Sony to compete with MS software side or a small time developer to outdo MS and a specialised tech firm that actually caught MS' attention? I'm not saying it couldn't happen but it really isn't likely and unless we have a reason(something that actually exists rather than fanboy speculation) to beleive this is the case there's no reason to beleive it.



    edit: Ah the old I'll neg this post because it proved me wrong response, typical of the average Eurogamer commenter these days, pointless bothering at all with this level of maturity.
    Reply 0
  • Bobby Kotick slags off Tim Schafer

  • Calgon 27/09/2010

    Machiavellian Ive just proved to you there are plenty of us who werent simply having a kneejerk reaction(but then I wasnt saying I hate him I guess, Im saying he isnt the model businessman he thinks he is by a long shot, infact some of his behaviour/comments have been stupid, poor ethics that turn the consumer off) I still dont understand why you are defending him so much nothing you've said has countered any of my critisisms. Oh and its not like any of the comments that are being quoted are being taken out of context really or that any of it was intended to be off the record(as was the case with Tim's comment which was unprofessional too Im sure even he will admit that).



    My position was never everything he says is wrong and a lie, you were making points to me infact that Id already said myself which shows you prefer to beleive/assume everyone is just another idiot jumping on the bandwagon without really reading what they are saying hence not really knowing what their position is either. :/



    Thats all from me on it anyway I dont care enough to discuss it any further, far more important things for all of us to be concerned with even as far as gaming is concrened, than this saga. Oh and if Activision do start overcharging and underdelivering then dont buy their products, problem solved. :)
    Reply +1
  • Calgon 27/09/2010

    Machiavellian huh I dont understand your position then we both agree theres nothing wrong with being business minded I think everyone can agree with that. Also it depends on your own moral ethics what you consider to be evil or bad doesn't it(same with what you personaly beleive to be good business ethics... you vote with your wallet), I dont think he is necessarily evil personaly but some people do see greed(which he undoubtably is looking like one of the unashamedly greediest execs/CEO's going at the moment) as evil, I dont think many people were saying that though most people just dont like the guy.



    Making sure you have a cash cow also isn't bad since it's something that Nintendo has been doing for years and it's what their fanbase expect them to bring out.



    Nintendo do have a habbit of milking their fans I guess but what they have always had and they must work really hard on is a good company image(Sony and especially MS would love to have one in the same league as theirs) which is what you are missing here, Kotic really isnt being smart here at all(not good for business, will eventually cost money as he is turning his customers off its plain to see).



    PR plays a vital role in this industry just ask Sony or MS both have lost alot of money through different reasons because of it, Nintendo make a packet because of it.



    Offer good value products, respect your customer and your partners and you should in most cases expect good return its pretty simple really, none of this attention seeking chest beating he's been doing is doing him or his company any good, can you agree with that?



    Does he seem such a smart businessman with that in mind?
    Reply 0
  • Calgon 27/09/2010

    Machiavellian being a businessman you'd think company image is up there on the list somewhere, he's damaging it and heading for a fall if you ask me... like I said there's being business minded(which is absolutely necessary but you went a bit overboard defending his position imo, like it or not theres still plenty of competition around so it not "gimme your money I do what I want" time just yet) and there's treating your consumers like cash cows("how can we get more money while offering less... thats my goal!") and publicly critisising your partners both are something which you do not beat your chest about to journolists, unprofessional is the word. He's on top now but it wont last long if he keeps this up. Reply 0
  • Calgon 27/09/2010

    Personally I see nothing wrong with being business minded(every publisher and developer needs to be for this industry to do well) but not when it appears their values are milking their customers for everything they have for as little effort as possible rather than offering value for money and listening to what his consumers and partners/devs want(which he DOES need, you'd never think it with the attitude he displays). Reply +2
  • EA: PS3 can overtake Xbox 360

  • Calgon 24/09/2010

    Oh EA...

    Your favoritism is just too obvious...




    You know what, up until I read that comment and checked what you were on about, I was under impression this was a statment from Sony PR... why is an EA person doing PR for Sony is the question though?
    Reply +4
  • Just for the record?

  • Calgon 22/09/2010

    Goodfella are we? I'd just prefer EG without the petty attention seeking trolls, not that it does any good to complain(it's always been a problem but never as freequent as it is these days) but I'm gonna point out the stupidity as often as I've wasted time reading it all the same. :p Reply -1