"Fahrenheit 9/11 on C4 now!"

Didn't realise this was on tonight...

Starts in about 5 minutes...

I forgot how good the music production is on this. And quite just how harrowing the 9/11 sequence is.

Yeah i'm watching it too.Bottom line is - with enough money and the right support, anything is possible...

I'll just rent it. There's been a murder, you see...

You what? Murder?

A toe curlingly uncomfortable polemic with some shockingly exploitative sections. Some moments of comedy genius provided by the Shrubster.

His worst.

The worst part is the iraqi child on the bed with his arm unzipped

That Coallition of the Willing bit is comedy gold!

The toasted american cadaver mutilation was pretty stomach churning.

Whoops, I missed it. Any chance of a repeat ?

Not finished yet.

The fact Bush just sat there reading childrens storys for 7 minutes after being told about the towers still stuns me.

And they still voted him in Lol !!!

WE'RE DOOMED I TELLS YA

silentbob wrote:
A toe curlingly uncomfortable polemic with some shockingly exploitative sections.

Effective though. Sometimes when you're dealing with shit you have to get your hands dirty.

Decoded wrote:

silentbob wrote:
A toe curlingly uncomfortable polemic with some shockingly exploitative sections.

Effective though. Sometimes when you're dealing with shit you have to get your hands dirty.

True. But making so much of it with selective edeting and things taken out of context means that you give the pro-Bush people and extremly easy way to dismiss it all.
Makes it less powerfull.

Decoded wrote:

silentbob wrote:
A toe curlingly uncomfortable polemic with some shockingly exploitative sections.

Effective though. Sometimes when you're dealing with shit you have to get your hands dirty.

Yes, it effectively made me want to punch Moore's lights out. At no point did I feel any more compassion for the victims of the Iraq war - I just kept thinking how awfully manipulative the filmmaker is and when this poor woman's emotional breakdown would stop being so mercilessly stage managed.

Ironically, Moore's most effective 'scene' is at the beginning of th emovie. No images, just the soundtrack to the horro of 9/11. Also, there was a truly mind bending montage of images collected during the Iraq conflict.

But the rest was pretty worthless IMO.

Edited by silentbob at 00:14:34 28-01-2005

First time I've seen it, and I've got to side with the 'manipulative and disappointing' crowd. Moore seemed especially confused as to how to portray American soldiers - one minute he's showing them as cocky, trigger happy yee-haws, the next he's portraying them as victims, preyed upon by merciless recruitment sergeants in deprived areas. That's the problem with this kind of partisan journalism - it needs to find an absolute truth where often none exists.

Sad really, along with Dude, Where's My Country?, the last of Moore's pieces I mentally absorbed, he's really gone downhill in my book. I'm on his side, but I just can't bring myself to cheer for him any more if he keeps using the methods of his enemies.

Edited by Ajay at 00:53:39 28-01-2005

I hear what you're saying, silentbob - I couldn't stomach Dude, Where's My Country?, but I did find Stupid White Men somewhat enlightening.

However, I don't think you should dismiss him just because he is a polemicist*. In fact, once you bear that in mind he becomes more entertaining as a writer and film-maker. The danger with him is when he is considered as a 'balanced' reporter of the truth, when the information he presents should be considered in exactly the same light as that coming from 'the establishment'.

In my view, whichever way you look at it, if his targeted audience (answers on a postcard) is provoked into challenging what they're spoon-fed on a daily basis then that must be a good thing, whatever the cause.



*possibly polemecist, but I don't think so

Well just looking at the trailers on Apple and stumbled upon this - Gunner Palace.

Apparantley it tells the story as never told before, by the soldiers themselves. Well whatever, but they seem to be having a whale of time at Saddams palace !

Edited by one-eye at 01:13:34 28-01-2005

Good link one-eye, hadn't heard of that before. I've not heard of the film makers before so I don't know their stance (pro/anti war etc) and it's pretty hard to tell from the trailer (though going by the poster, my hunch is it's sympathetic to the squaddies), but these docs filmed around the front line troops are usually pretty interesting either way so I'll be keeping an eye out for this.

Did think it looked worringly close to a real-life version of Buffalo Soldiers though...!

Edited by Ajay at 01:29:07 28-01-2005

one-eye wrote:
Well just looking at the trailers on Apple and stumbled upon this - Gunner Palace.

Apparantley it tells the story as never told before, by the soldiers themselves. Well whatever, but they seem to be having a whale of time at Saddams palace !

Edited by one-eye at 01:13:34 28-01-2005

LOL, yeah reminded me of Air America.

i watched it as well for the first time last night and i have to say i thought it was very very good

i was also frustrated with the fact that there was no clear line of thought as to a true explanation of events but then i believe thats just the thing, there is no one answer, it's more a sea of interwoven thread that michael only just begins to break into

you have to admire the guy for doing what he does though, yes in a way you can call his type of journalism manipulative but then if no one is willing to really flesh out these events then we would be none the wiser

for one i feel more alive and thankful for having watched it, truly mass educational media of this type of form should be applauded

if nothing else it inspires you to think and try to at least in-part understand, and that in itself is enough

Ajay wrote:
Moore seemed especially confused as to how to portray American soldiers - one minute he's showing them as cocky, trigger happy yee-haws, the next he's portraying them as victims, preyed upon by merciless recruitment sergeants in deprived areas.

This is what I thought was really good about his portrayal of the soldiers, and NOT confused at all. He shows they're human, with weaknesses and faults..

'truly mass-educational media'


O_o

lol! what? o_o

it is educational

admittedly in a loose definition of the word : p

I'd like to think that prospective education materials wouldn't be so biased. Unless of course you are taking: "Why do liberals hate America: 101" :)

The second half was really boring, and not nearly as funny as the first half. The script writers ran out of jokes, and the funny guy dissapeared for most of the 2nd half.

bias is inherent in everything

as long as you recognise that then the material is still viable?

non? nein? no?

Hyoushi wrote:
Boring film. Saw a french docu on the same topic, more or less, that was much much better.

It might have been better quality but certainly not better known. Moore brought his documentary to a mainstream audience and while it's far from perfect it got people thinking. And the outrage it recieved from the American right is a testament to its effectiveness. They don't like being beaten at their own game ;-)

Decoded wrote:
They don't like being beaten at their own game ;-)

Only they didnt loose, they quite comprehensively won :/

Edited by DiscoStu at 10:12:44 28-01-2005

In an ideal world everybody would watch high-quality, unbiased documentaries, but that doesn't happen. If Moore's films convince a fraction of the millions upon millions who watch them to scrutinize what they're fed by media and government then that must be a worthy thing.