The cycling thread Page 183

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  • pistol 7 Jan 2013 19:32:13 13,019 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Unrelated, when at the hospital I bought myself a "100 years of the tour de France" magazine. I didn't actually get the chance to look at it, but it seems like it should be interesting (it had better be for the price).

    http://www.myfavouritemagazines.co.uk/cycling-bookazines/100-hundred-years-of-the-tour-de-france/?ns_campaign=DirectM_100_years_tdf&ns_mchannel=hl&ns_source=cyclingnews&ns_linkname=100yrtdf&ns_fee=0
    Have you read Tyler Hamilton's latest book, or even better, Seven Deadly Sins by David Walsh?
  • Psychotext 7 Jan 2013 19:34:00 54,405 posts
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    I have not. I've never actually picked up anything cycling related (book wise) before now. I probably wouldn't have at the hospital were it not for the fact that they had precisely nothing else which caught my eye. :)
  • pistol 7 Jan 2013 19:52:04 13,019 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    I have not. I've never actually picked up anything cycling related (book wise) before now. I probably wouldn't have at the hospital were it not for the fact that they had precisely nothing else which caught my eye. :)
    Highly recommended. One from inside Armstrong's team with all the gory details and the other from the only sports journalist globally with the balls to take Armstrong on. Kimmage came later.
  • Psychotext 7 Jan 2013 20:00:59 54,405 posts
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    I shall have a look.
  • pistol 7 Jan 2013 20:20:37 13,019 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    I shall have a look.
    There are plenty of others I can recommend but those two will give you the best incite.
  • MikeP 7 Jan 2013 21:41:42 1,944 posts
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    I've read the Hamilton book, definitely worth looking at.

    Kimmage's original book, Rough Ride, is also good. Makes you realise how tough it was being a pro in the 80s. Not that it's easy now, but some of the stuff seems almost medieval.

    Much more lighthearted is Ned Boulting's "How I won the Yellow Jumper," which is a good laugh, and he writes very well.

    PSN ID: Mikenetic

  • pistol 7 Jan 2013 21:51:04 13,019 posts
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    MikeP wrote:
    I've read the Hamilton book, definitely worth looking at.

    Kimmage's original book, Rough Ride, is also good. Makes you realise how tough it was being a pro in the 80s. Not that it's easy now, but some of the stuff seems almost medieval.

    Much more lighthearted is Ned Boulting's "How I won the Yellow Jumper," which is a good laugh, and he writes very well.
    Rough Ride is a good read indeed and Kimmage became a journalist way after Walsh was going after Armstrong.
  • Vortex808 8 Jan 2013 10:48:23 7,310 posts
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    pistol wrote:

    Have you read Tyler Hamilton's latest book, or even better, Seven Deadly Sins by David Walsh?

    Is Walsh's book better than Tyler Hanmilton's then?

    Damn, I'll have to buy that too now. I still have The Secret Race on my 'to be read' pile.
  • Trafford 8 Jan 2013 10:55:00 5,883 posts
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    A change in living circumstances means I haven't cycled in 3 weeks.
    I am depressed:(
  • Psychotext 8 Jan 2013 11:06:27 54,405 posts
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    Welcome to the club. :(
  • Trafford 8 Jan 2013 11:13:49 5,883 posts
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    How's the leg?
  • Psychotext 8 Jan 2013 11:20:01 54,405 posts
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    Painful, but I've got some co-codamol now which helps. I'm not sure how it's supposed to heal but I'm told it's basically like getting a scab internally which will eventually dissolve.

    I guess then I find out how much damage has been done.
  • Trafford 8 Jan 2013 12:03:33 5,883 posts
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    Best of luck with that mate.
    Maybe you should read Reach for the Sky ;)
  • Dougs 8 Jan 2013 12:52:08 68,474 posts
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    Is that Woody or Steps7/S Club

    Edited by Dougs at 12:54:54 08-01-2013
  • Trafford 8 Jan 2013 13:26:28 5,883 posts
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    I was thinking of Douglas Bader's biography.
  • grey_matters 8 Jan 2013 13:49:48 3,799 posts
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    Slaying the Badger is a decent effort too. Follows Lemond's battle against Hinault in the early 80s. Probably the last clean winner of the Tour.
  • elstoof 8 Jan 2013 13:56:14 7,760 posts
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    *cough*Wiggins*cough*
  • Dougs 8 Jan 2013 13:58:55 68,474 posts
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    Trafford wrote:
    I was thinking of Douglas Bader's biography.
    :) Not much of a historian, sad that Woody was the first thing that came to mind...but then, my 2 year old is utterly obsessed with Toy Story!
  • Psychotext 8 Jan 2013 14:11:39 54,405 posts
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    Ugh... chest pain from trapped wind freaking me out. (I only know it's trapped wind now that my Remegel has kicked in).
  • Trafford 8 Jan 2013 14:24:38 5,883 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    Trafford wrote:
    I was thinking of Douglas Bader's biography.
    :) Not much of a historian, sad that Woody was the first thing that came to mind...but then, my 2 year old is utterly obsessed with Toy Story!

    Happy times Dougs. Enjoy it while they're young.
  • Dougs 8 Jan 2013 14:26:13 68,474 posts
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    Cheers, I do!
  • Deleted user 8 January 2013 14:58:55
    Just finished the Tyler Hamilton book - thought it was a great read.

    My main feeling about Armstrong in particular is that Im amazed he got away with it for so long given that a) there were a lot of people who knew he was doping and b) he seemed to make a lot of enemies along the way.

    Favourite part was right at the end when Hamilton is out riding his old mountain bike and catches up those 2 road-racers who diss him.
    Point being that yes he doped but they were also fantastic atheletes as well even without the drugs. Shame it had to be like that.
  • grey_matters 8 Jan 2013 15:06:25 3,799 posts
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    elstoof wrote:
    *cough*Wiggins*cough*
    Yeah, maybe Wiggins and maybe Evans too.
  • pistol 8 Jan 2013 17:32:40 13,019 posts
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    Vortex808 wrote:
    pistol wrote:

    Have you read Tyler Hamilton's latest book, or even better, Seven Deadly Sins by David Walsh?

    Is Walsh's book better than Tyler Hanmilton's then?

    Damn, I'll have to buy that too now. I still have The Secret Race on my 'to be read' pile.
    Imo yes, much broader and doesn't just concentrate on US Postal. Walsh was accusing Armstrong of doping way back as early as 1997/1998, and it goes way further than that. Probably as far as before he turned pro with the Motorola team. USA cycling/Chris Carmichael etc were doping riders who weren't even pro's yet. Armstrong joined forces with Dr ferrari in late 1990's and took EPO to another level. Way more advanced than people such as Pantani, Verenque etc. EPO was being used as early as 1989/1990 in the peleton but they were still learning about it. The year Armstrong won his 1st tour in 1999 (the year after the Festina affair) he was riding faster than anyone and rode the next few tours faster than anyone. Even the big names.

    After the festina affair in 1998, loads of French riders got done and the French cycling body started to come down really hard on any riders who were using. So basically, apart from a few exceptions, most of the French riders after 1998 tried to ride clean but Armstrong was doped to the eyeballs and was almost superhuman from then on. Others continued to dope with EPO and other methods but Armstrong and Ferrari used techniques hardly anyone else had been using, so he was always going to be quicker.

    Edited by pistol at 17:36:10 08-01-2013
  • pistol 8 Jan 2013 17:39:40 13,019 posts
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    grey_matters wrote:
    Slaying the Badger is a decent effort too. Follows Lemond's battle against Hinault in the early 80s. Probably the last clean winner of the Tour.
    Hinault was a dirty got too, but EPO wasn't around then so the methods he was using would help but not totally transform a rider the way EPO and blood transfusions do. Lemond is probably the only tour winner not to have any rumours of cheating attached to him. His VO2 Max was also much higher than Armstrongs and imo, the most gifted rider outside of Mercx, who incidentally also got done for drugs, but not EPO.
  • caligari 8 Jan 2013 18:35:13 17,077 posts
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    I've got to replace the rear derailleur (is that how you spell it?) on my road bike.

    I'm looking around on eBay etc - what's the difference between short/long cages (expect for the length - natch)?

    Edited by caligari at 18:35:26 08-01-2013
  • pistol 8 Jan 2013 18:47:22 13,019 posts
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    Alipan wrote:
    Just finished the Tyler Hamilton book - thought it was a great read.

    My main feeling about Armstrong in particular is that Im amazed he got away with it for so long given that a) there were a lot of people who knew he was doping and b) he seemed to make a lot of enemies along the way.

    Favourite part was right at the end when Hamilton is out riding his old mountain bike and catches up those 2 road-racers who diss him.
    Point being that yes he doped but they were also fantastic atheletes as well even without the drugs. Shame it had to be like that.
    He got away with it for so long because a) the cycling governing body (UCI) knew about it but did nothing, and b) most of the tests for EPO were next to useless. Especially as his doctor was probably one of 2 people globally whose doping techniques were years ahead of the UCI and testing labs. They are still are to a certain extent and they still don't have a reliable test for blood transfusions. EPO tests only started to get better around 2004/2005 but even then they were crap.

    Fantastic athlete yes, Tour winner without EPO, certainly not. Before Armstrong had cancer he did 4 tours and the best e could manage was 36th. He was always a 1 day classics rider before cancer and never any good in the mountains or time trialling. He was absolutely riddled with cancer and apparently 50% chance of survival. He returns to the tour in 99 after recovery and not only wins but rides faster than anyone both in mountains and TT's. To the point where even the big names couldn't catch him. Everyone was suspicious at the time, riders, press etc but nobody could prove anything. He failed a test at the 99 Tour but it got hushed up and the UCI allowed him to submit a backdated doctor's certificate to explain why he had corticosteroids in his system. The UCI knew, the tour organisers knew, but they were all corrupt.

    Edited by pistol at 18:55:31 08-01-2013
  • Psychotext 8 Jan 2013 18:48:33 54,405 posts
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    caligari wrote:
    I'm looking around on eBay etc - what's the difference between short/long cages (expect for the length - natch)?
    I could be wrong, but I was always under the impression that short = 1 ring up front, medium = 2 rings up front, long = 3 rings up front.
  • pistol 8 Jan 2013 19:02:06 13,019 posts
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    grey_matters wrote:
    elstoof wrote:
    *cough*Wiggins*cough*
    Yeah, maybe Wiggins and maybe Evans too.
    Evans is another rider who hasn't had any rumours around him, not a single one and Wiggins doesn't ride quick enough compared to the EPO era to be doped. He rides the mountains at tempo but never aggressively and certainly not repeated days. Plus his blood values have always been publicly available. Wiggins is a super athlete but the tour he rode was much slower than the EPO days. If he is doping I'll be very surprised. His record over the years both on the track and road haven't been suspicious at all.

    In Armstrong's EPO era Wiggins would have struggled to get top 10.

    Edited by pistol at 19:04:48 08-01-2013
  • Psychotext 8 Jan 2013 22:18:44 54,405 posts
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    I wonder what the deal with this is:

    "@NYDNSportsITeam: "60 Minutes Sports" to report that @LanceArmstrong offered USADA $250,000 in 2004. The anti-doping agency rejected his offer"
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