"Speedball 2 is old" - will all gaming get old?

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  • Deleted user 23 October 2007 11:50:11
    Speedball 2 released on XBLA: immediate moaning about how an old Amiga game that personally, I found a bit repetitive at the time, sucks those nostalgic wank-fantasies dry with the terrible truth that, uh, waggling a joystick to some superhuman ballkickers was better as a teen than it is now. (For supporting evidence, please see the Guardian gamesblog).


    Now, the gap between now and then is massive. I can't imagine a young 'next-next-next-gen' - or whatever this gen is now - gameplayer ever being able to manage with disks, or the loading times, or making their own backgrounds and pointers on Workbench (the rather good Amiga OS). Nor coping with the shitty graphics. However, at the time, going up from 8-bit to 16-bit was like having a sex-change it was so revolutionary. From Spectrums to Amiga 500s meant going from colour-clashes to rich detailed sprite environments. From crackling hackling hisses to realistic laser blasts. And Dick Van Dyke liked using the Amiga for graphics, and that's perhaps the best celeb endorsement EVER.

    Now, going from PS2 to PS3 is... well... not so huge. Xbox to 360... huh. Gamecube to Wii - the naysayers call it Gamecube 1.5 - but at least this has some noticeable innovations in it. Still, we are just playing games that, on the face of it, are graphical / control upgrades from a few years ago. (This is why everyone went so shit hot over Wii Sports, it actually feels different when you pick it up).



    The crushing realisation that Speedball 2 is actually not that great is unavoidable for people of the right age with the right hobbies. We all spent our time playing games when, looking back, they're a bit crap. Familiarity and technological improvements ruin the past, in this respect, and it is hard to go back.

    However - as we become ever more familiar with the games (Multiplayer FPS 1092! 3D Zelda 23! Realistic Driving Sim 2130910!), and the technological innovation dries up, will we actually start to nostalgically look back on games from this generation and find them, after a few months absence, lacking? Will this catch up with us to the point that the games we are playing - right now, with our hands and feet and eyes - become stale in realtime?

    Yes, I predict that soon that terrible sense that we wasted our childhoods playing games that don't stand up anymore will strike us as even as we're playing something we bought a week ago.
  • Psychotext 23 Oct 2007 11:51:35 54,395 posts
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    This is why I never play retro games. For me they're never as good the second time around and because of that they ruin my memories of the game.
  • Skeptopotamus 23 Oct 2007 11:51:44 265 posts
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    What are you on about, Speedball 2 is still great!
  • Pike 23 Oct 2007 11:53:53 13,447 posts
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    Stompy wrote:
    Yes, I predict that soon that terrible sense that we wasted our childhoods playing games that don't stand up anymore...

    Personally I don't sudennly start to think doing something I enjoyed when I was a kid suddenly becomes a waste if an even better version of that activity or toy comes along later. But then I'm not a miserable whiner.
  • Deleted user 23 October 2007 11:56:13
    Psychotext wrote:
    This is why I never play retro games. For me they're never as good the second time around and because of that they ruin my memories of the game.

    But will it occur that, as time starts to go slower and slower due to our overexperience of genres and evident scaling back of technological innovation, games become so damningly familiar to us while we're actually playing them for the first time that we'll have these 'retro is shit' experiences far more quickly?

    I can't imagine someone playing a new Medal of Honour, or whatever, and not feeling this way after a few hours. "I've done this before, this is like a cherished childhood memory, and you're shitting on it". Even though it is a new game.
  • Deleted user 23 October 2007 11:57:02
    Pike wrote:
    Stompy wrote:
    Yes, I predict that soon that terrible sense that we wasted our childhoods playing games that don't stand up anymore...

    Personally I don't sudennly start to think doing something I enjoyed when I was a kid suddenly becomes a waste if an even better version of that activity or toy comes along later. But then I'm not a miserable whiner.

    Well, all I can ask you to do is to play all your favourite games from when you were young and see how you feel after.
  • Psychotext 23 Oct 2007 11:57:33 54,395 posts
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    I don't get nostalgic about games I played 2 years ago... and I doubt I'll get nostalgic about games I played this year in 10 years from now.

    Well, maybe about Portal! =)
  • pjmaybe 23 Oct 2007 12:00:41 70,676 posts
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    It's a rose coloured specs thing. I remember when MAME first started to hit the net, and I started grabbing MAME roms like mad thinking "Wow, this will be incredible! All those arcade games I used to love, now I can play them at home" and the truth is I think I play Commando and Galaga 88 and that's about it.

    I can see me always being nostalgic about Starcraft because it seems to have aged really well. Similarly, I can see me always loving games like Carmageddon, Interstate 76 and the old LucasArse graphical adventures.

    A lot of games, particularly a lot of modern console games don't mature like fine wine and their arses turn to vinegar pretty damned quickly IMHO. Gears of War is a fine example of a game that people went nuts for, but now barely raises a whisper even with die hard shooter-nuts.

    Peej
  • Deleted user 23 October 2007 12:00:55
    Psychotext wrote:
    I doubt I'll get nostalgic about games I played this year in 10 years from now.

    Does that mean modern games are that shit you can't be bothered to imagine they were any good years after you've played them?
  • Pike 23 Oct 2007 12:01:17 13,447 posts
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    Stompy wrote:
    Pike wrote:
    Stompy wrote:
    Yes, I predict that soon that terrible sense that we wasted our childhoods playing games that don't stand up anymore...

    Personally I don't sudennly start to think doing something I enjoyed when I was a kid suddenly becomes a waste if an even better version of that activity or toy comes along later. But then I'm not a miserable whiner.

    Well, all I can ask you to do is to play all your favourite games from when you were young and see how you feel after.

    How does a game aging badly lead to the conclusion that time spent playing it when it was fresh was time wasted? That doesn't make sense.
  • Psychotext 23 Oct 2007 12:04:47 54,395 posts
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    Stompy wrote:
    Does that mean modern games are that shit you can't be bothered to imagine they were any good years after you've played them?
    No, it means that I'm an old cynical bastard.
  • Deleted user 23 October 2007 12:05:00
    Pike wrote:
    How does a game aging badly lead to the conclusion that time spent playing it when it was fresh was time wasted? That doesn't make sense.

    It depends on the judgement you are making.
    If you want to accept that tastes are objective (a tricky argument) then to not like something you used to like shows that you used to like shit, which is depressing.
    The other option (attractive because of its apparent simplicity) is to say, "it's subjective to the context. At the time, games were less advanced, so these more basic games don't cut the mustard anymore. I was not wrong to like this game then."

    However, this latter approach opens up the idea that, as the 'context' of gaming seems to advance at a much slower rate, our feeling that "these basic games don't cut the mustard anymore" will start to catch up with us. Hence my post.
  • Retroid Moderator 23 Oct 2007 12:05:50 45,016 posts
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    Speedball 2 is great.

    The version on Arcade is less so.
  • Deleted user 23 October 2007 12:06:01
    Some games age badly, some do not. Just like some films, TV shows and songs age badly, and some do not.

    Thread ends.
  • Psychotext 23 Oct 2007 12:07:28 54,395 posts
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    Gremmi wrote:
    Thread ends.
    ...but I can still post!
  • Deleted user 23 October 2007 12:08:14
    Curses. Beaten by free will AGAIN.

    Some day my hypnoray will work.
  • JuanKerr 23 Oct 2007 12:08:50 36,315 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    This is why I never play retro games. For me they're never as good the second time around and because of that they ruin my memories of the game.

    Don't agree with this at all. Downloaded Street Fighter 2 turbo on the VC yesterday and spent all day playing it against my mate - it's still brilliant.

    Also been playing a lot of Super Mario World and that's every bit as good as it was when I first played it back in the SNES days.
  • JuanKerr 23 Oct 2007 12:09:29 36,315 posts
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    Gremmi wrote:
    Some games age badly, some do not. Just like some films, TV shows and songs age badly, and some do not.

    Thread ends.

    Damn you and your being absolutely spot on.
  • beep 23 Oct 2007 12:09:41 450 posts
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    I loved Speedball 2, especially when you go through the entire season undefeated and whallop those bastards in Fatal Justice and Super Nashwan (woohoo!).

    Man, I really want to play Shufflepuck Cafe now!
  • Deleted user 23 October 2007 12:10:11
    Gremmi wrote:
    Some games age badly, some do not. Just like some films, TV shows and songs age badly, and some do not.

    Thread ends.


    You might as well watch a man get killed by a bull and, when his heartwrenched girlfriend collapses sobbing on the corpse, intone to her (with your hypnoray, if you like, even though I know what you'll try to do with it and it's not nice to take advantage after such a bereavement) "Some bulls kill men. Some do not. Life ends".

    Truisms are never particularly fulfilling as an answer to a question.
  • Fat-Boy 23 Oct 2007 12:10:59 4,300 posts
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    I replayed Speedball 2 earlier this year on my Micro and loved it.
  • Deleted user 23 October 2007 12:14:08
    dobbie wrote:
    - Warlords II (1993) Strangely atmospheric fantasy conquer the world for yourself stuff.

    Isn't this being ported to XBLA, or was that my fevered mind at work?



    ps: The reason Speedball 2 is not as good as it once was (on XBLA, at least) is because they ballsed up the porting process and ended up somehow inserting crippling bugs into decades-old code.

    The Amiga original is still perfectly fun and playable.
  • WrongShui 23 Oct 2007 12:14:49 6,620 posts
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    Stompy wrote:
    Well, all I can ask you to do is to play all your favourite games from when you were young and see how you feel after.

    Xcom, syndicate, the entire X-wing series, 4x games...

    Yup all are still brilliant.
  • Deleted user 23 October 2007 12:16:01
    Stompy wrote:
    Well, all I can ask you to do is to play all your favourite games from when you were young and see how you feel after.

    Obviously you just had really bad taste in games.
  • Psychotext 23 Oct 2007 12:21:56 54,395 posts
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    JuanKerr wrote:
    Psychotext wrote:
    This is why I never play retro games. For me they're never as good the second time around and because of that they ruin my memories of the game.

    Don't agree with this at all. Downloaded Street Fighter 2 turbo on the VC yesterday and spent all day playing it against my mate - it's still brilliant.
    Umm... that's nice for you and all. But how can you not agree with what I said.

    Unless you know me better than me or something!
  • JuanKerr 23 Oct 2007 12:23:36 36,315 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    JuanKerr wrote:
    Psychotext wrote:
    This is why I never play retro games. For me they're never as good the second time around and because of that they ruin my memories of the game.

    Don't agree with this at all. Downloaded Street Fighter 2 turbo on the VC yesterday and spent all day playing it against my mate - it's still brilliant.
    Umm... that's nice for you and all. But how can you not agree with what I said.

    Unless you know me better than me or something!

    Ooops, sorry - only just notied the "for me" bit in your post!
  • speedofthepuma 23 Oct 2007 12:24:21 13,304 posts
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    I remember thinking speedball 2 was shallow even at the time - still fun, but shallow.

    I'll echo the point that gameplay/story driven nostalgia often stands the test of time, where as stuff that impressed because of technical/graphical achievement falls flat on its stupid face.

    I lurk. If I've spoken to you, I'm either impassioned, or drunk.

  • Deleted user 23 October 2007 12:26:16
    JuanKerr wrote:
    Psychotext wrote:
    JuanKerr wrote:
    Psychotext wrote:
    This is why I never play retro games. For me they're never as good the second time around and because of that they ruin my memories of the game.

    Don't agree with this at all. Downloaded Street Fighter 2 turbo on the VC yesterday and spent all day playing it against my mate - it's still brilliant.
    Umm... that's nice for you and all. But how can you not agree with what I said.

    Unless you know me better than me or something!

    Ooops, sorry - only just notied the "for me" bit in your post!


    When people say "for me", they generally mean - in an underhanded way - "for everyone". Let the fight continue!
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