Empire: Total War Page 2

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  • WoodenSpoon 22 Aug 2007 14:19:30 12,275 posts
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    \o/ !!!
  • MuTaunt 22 Aug 2007 16:04:45 26 posts
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    Was hoping they'd do a imperial / industrial age version of Total War. Looks pretty damn impressive so far.

    Needs new PC first though.

    *Checks bank balance*

    Nooo!

    Bank 1 - 0 MuTaunt.

    Damnit!

    Ah well still plenty of time yet.
  • Khanivor 22 Aug 2007 18:06:25 40,344 posts
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    Grrr. Looks like a PC upgrade will be needed then :(

    Still, being CA it probably won't be out for another three years.
  • Sucram 23 Aug 2007 04:08:32 251 posts
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    CA certainly are productive, 10 Total War games (inc. exp) in eight years.

    Naval Combat is something I've always desperately wanted to see done well, not see any game make it detailed and fun with more than a couple of vessels.


    Also hope they sort out the issues I've had with the game since M:TW.

    1) The endgame campaign is just a management nightmare, (Shogun benefited from being on a small scale in this regard). They say they've improved the UI, we shall see. Oddly,I'd quite like more stat screens and overlays and the like, just so it's easier to get an overview of your empire.

    2) Battles in the campaign just are not as interesting as the historical battles. Wouldn't mind the campaign cheating a bit and generating cinematic (am thinking of Episode 2's cinematic physics) battles during the campaign.
  • Deleted user 23 August 2007 22:58:43
    A few more details...

    ~The game is set in the years 1700 to the early 1800’s,
    ~the player’s aim is to create the greatest Republic or Empire the world has known - Perhaps continuing the cities/castle thing from Med2?
    ~a revolutionised Total War campaign spanning 3 continents
    ~new, enhanced systems for Trade, Diplomacy, Missions and Espionage.
    ~ The campaign will also feature a huge cast of historical figures including Peter The Great, Malborough and Charles XII of Sweden.
    ~The game will include 10 playable factions including Britain, Prussia, France, Spain, America and the massive Ottoman Empire.
  • Shrimp 23 Aug 2007 23:10:56 1,081 posts
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    The more I think about the Total War games the more I think they lost their way after Shogun - one of the greatest game concepts ever.

    They're just slapping on more and more features, while the tactical and strategic AI is Totally broken. It's a bit hard to ignore when the AI moves a full stack out of a city when you're just about to lay siege to it...

    And I agree with Sucram's two points.

    Maybe I'm just playing it wrong? Is it so full of holes on max difficulty or do the enemies troops just have double hitpoints?

    Edit: Actually, I guess I'm just depressed by the inevitability of commercial game development: They're hardly going to be trumpeting "Medieval 2 Service Pack 1"
  • WrongShui 23 Aug 2007 23:18:57 6,596 posts
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    Shogans units and tactics were much simpler though.
  • Deleted user 23 August 2007 23:22:01
    Maybe, but don't forget that this is the next leap: They've always said that navel battles were impossible/really hard with the Rome engine so we'd have to wait for the next one, which is this.
  • Shrimp 23 Aug 2007 23:32:29 1,081 posts
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    I thought Medieval II was supposed to be the next leap :(

    To clarify, I'm not claiming Shogun was better - it just didn't fall on its face as much and didn't overreach. It was also a great achievement for the time.

    What would be nice is if CA got a small team of artists and designers to make a Shogun mod for Med II. Make it nice an simple, then get some coders to rewrite the AI so it works (which should be more achievable in the constrained setting).

    Mmmm gonna have to reinstall Shogun and see if still works... that nice red lacquer UI, warrior monks...
  • Deleted user 23 August 2007 23:38:05
    Nah, Med2 was just a rejigged Rome where they pushed the Engine as far as it could go - Same as they did with Med1.

    Though Shogun was quality - I always prefered the smaller settings (which is why I'm quite looking forward to Kingdoms). The limited unit roster was great for some really stratigic battles as well. Very hard to play after getting used to Rome.
  • Shrimp 23 Aug 2007 23:50:41 1,081 posts
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    I'm not sure the engine matters though (although obviously they want to have shiny screenshots and "Brand new 3D engine" on the box).

    It's stuff like sieges usually boiling down to trying to wrong-foot a couple of bodyguard units. Seriously, is there a way of playing it to minimise the amount of stupid stuff the AI does? I usually play on Hard Battles/Hard Campaign.
  • Deleted user 23 August 2007 23:55:35
    Probably doesn't necessarily matter that much, but CA seem to use it to lauch new features from conception.

    Have you played the new 1.2 patch for Med2? That seemed to fix a fair amount of stuff.
  • FWB 23 Aug 2007 23:58:28 43,791 posts
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    Shrimp wrote:
    What would be nice is if CA got a small team of artists and designers to make a Shogun mod for Med II. Make it nice an simple, then get some coders to rewrite the AI so it works (which should be more achievable in the constrained setting).

    The Japanese all look the same so its boring.
  • Snuffb0t 24 Aug 2007 00:01:56 506 posts
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    Shogun:Total War is racistlol
  • Shrimp 24 Aug 2007 00:02:59 1,081 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    The Japanese all look the same so its boring.

    Oh yeah! Fair point.

    I think I've only ever played the 1.2 patch. It did have some good stuff, like beating nations unlocks them, and the cities/castles thing was interesting although many of the building options seemed a bit contrived.
  • UncleLou Moderator 27 Aug 2007 11:22:01 35,421 posts
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    Oooooooooooooh, missed this while I was on holidays, why did noone tell me!?
  • Deleted user 27 August 2007 11:24:01
    Funnily enough, I did wonder where you'd gone to!
  • MrCarrot 27 Aug 2007 12:41:30 3,516 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    Oooooooooooooh, missed this while I was on holidays, why did noone tell me!?

    Same here, if this hadn't been bumped this morning I'd still be oblivious! :(


    "Killick, there! Rouse out my special curtains, won't you. I'll be in my cabin."
  • Deleted user 3 September 2007 16:02:07
    WARNING - GET YOUR SCROLLING FINGER READY BECAUSE THIS MAY BE A BIG 'UN!

    Been looking around the TW forums, and some lonely, clever soul has compiled a list of what we know about the game so far. But as you can't link to the forum it's got to be a Ctrl C+V jobbie. It looks very promising, pretty much every criticism of Med2 seems to be being looked at and they seem to be aiming for something much closer to Shogun/Med1 style gameplay.

    Anyways... here goes:

    Facts on Empire: Total War:


    Title: Empire: Total War.
    Developer: The Creative Assembly.
    Location: Horsham Studios.
    Publiser: Sega.
    Release date: 2008
    Studio Director: Mike Simpson



    From Mike Simpson:
    We're delighted to introduce true 3D naval combat, something that adds a totally new dimension to Total War™ games." commented Mike Simpson, Studio Director at The Creative Assembly and the father of the Total War™ franchise. "We're genuinely excited about what we're achieving with the naval battles and also by the scale of the improvements being made to the core of the game - the land battles and the campaign. This will undoubtedly be the biggest and best Total War™ game we've ever made."
    Team: About 40 people are working on Empire of which a few newbies are introduced. Full work was actually started on the engine once Barbarian Invasion was released, but the development of the 3D engine has been going on for a bit longer then that

    Lead Designer: James Russell.
    Designer: Jan van der Crabben (Thamis).
    Designer/ Head Writer: Mike Brunton (MikeB).

    QA: Jack Lusted.

    Marketing & PR: Mark O'Connell (SenseiTW)

    Time Period: The game is set in the years 1700 to the early 1800's, a turbulent age of gunpowder, revolution, discovery and Empire Building.

    Victory conditions: the player's aim is to create the greatest Republic or Empire the world has known, spanning not just a continent but the world! Can you hold on to lands in the New World, or establish a rich trading empire in the Indies?

    AI:
    - Empire: Total War will boast a full re-write of the AI with a wider range of strategies and tactics, providing a formidable opponent on land, sea and on the campaign map.
    - One of the quirks of the old engine was that the diplomacy and military AI were two separate routines, developed separately by two different programmers. Those systems fought each other. The military side would say 'we need to invade' while the diplomatic side will say 'well, I just made a treaty with them.' Getting them to work together was difficult. It meant the behaviour wasn't always consistent.' Throwing out those systems should fix the quirks, while allowing for new game mechanics.

    Campaign map:
    - An all-new fully animated campaign map with all buildings and upgrades visible, upgrades are done by clicking on them on the Strategic Map.
    - New improved systems for Trade, Diplomacy, Missions and Espionage in that Diplomats, Spies and Assassins will no longer be represented on the map.
    - A refined and streamlined UI.
    - Improved Advisors and tutorials.
    - Queens are portrayed: According to Mike Brunton "But given that there's Queen Anne and Catherine the Great and Empress Marie-Therese, we'd be a bit remiss not to include proper queen-type queens, now wouldn't we?"
    - New agents and diplomacy traits functions are also planned, but no details are known about that yet.
    - Revolutions can happen, leading to the separation of countries. (As an example, a rebellion of the Scotts was given).
    - Enhanced auto management.
    - The big change for the fans is the reinvention of army movement. "It's fair to say that the campaign map in Rome and Medieval was divided into army-sized tiles, "Each tile could hold one army. In Empire, there's no tiling system. The player will never see any type of tiling artefact - it's entirely freeform. It's like taking the squares off the chessboard."
    - Slavery appears, but it's not something you can actively get involved in.
    - You will be able to build colonies. It will make a difference, whether you settle in the wilderness of the Americas, or whether you can use preexisting infrastructure in India.
    - Each nation will still have a capital.
    - You can change the form of government between: absolute monarchy, constitutional monarchy, and Republic. This will directly influence how you can deal with revolts and how fast you develop new technologies. Other factions will treat you according to your form of government.
    - Taxes can be set seperately for Nobles, Burghers???, and Peasants.
    - The event movies will be in also, as there are already some screenshots from them too.

    Continents:
    - North America
    Spanish settlements in the Caribbean.
    British Colonists/Americans in the west.
    Native Americans.

    - South America

    - Europe

    - North Africa
    French colonies in North Africa.
    Native Africans.
    - Central Asia
    English trading posts in India.
    Mughals in India.
    Indonesia.

    Historical figures:
    - Peter The Great
    - Malborough
    - Charles XII of Sweden.
    - Wellington.
    - Napoleon (according to PC Gameplay).
    - According to Mike Simpson, there's even a possibility to have Napoleon himself in your own ranks when around the end of the century you recruit an artillery unit in Corsica.

    Nations:
    Playable: 10. (temporarily list according to Cn Iulius Flamininus).
    - Britain
    - America
    - Sweden
    - United Provinces(Netherlands)
    - Poland-Lithuania
    - Russia
    - Prussia
    - Venice
    - Spain
    - France
    - Ottoman Empire

    Non-playable: approximatly 40.

    Undetermined (playable or non-playable):
    - Poland-Lithuania.

    Land Battles:
    - Maximum of twenty regiments (according to James Russell in PC Gameplay).
    - Real time battles will pose new challenges with the addition of cannon and musket, challenging players to master new formations and tactics as a result of the increasing role of gunpowder within warfare.
    - Capturing and occupying key buildings around the map. They will automatically take up defensive positions and fire out of windows/doors. You'll need to be careful however, because artillery can destroy buildings.
    - Using cover, such as behind walls.
    - Earth walls can be constructed, units entrenched and the battlefield is fully destructible.
    - One can only besiege star shaped forts...
    - Sound will be adjusted and improved so that the battlefields will become much more alive!

    Artillery:
    - Heavy artillery in the form of cannons, mortar and early rocket launchers, with bouncing cannonballs who bounce differently depending on the surface they hit slicing through drifting gunsmoke to tear up lines of infantry.
    - Cannons will seize up and explode.
    - Well-organized batteries of cannon.

    Infantry:
    - Bagpipes, drummers, flautists and trumpeters will fill the air with play out over the crack of musket fire, the boom of artillery and the thunderous charge of cavalry.
    - Generals will bark out orders to their regiments as the player orchestrates the battle utilizing formations, unit abilities and drills.
    - Formations: Line to mass their fire, Square to defend against cavalry charges or spread out in loose formation to minimize damage from cannon fire are all excellent tactics that the player will have to keep in mind.
    - There will be a fire button. It's a sort of override tool so you can time your shot when you want to. And timing is critical. Let off muskets too early, and you won't do enough damage. Let off your muskets too late in the face of a cavalry charge, and you've got every chance of being crushed by a flying dead horse."
    - There's more of an emphasis on fire in Empire, but that doesn't mean that shock isn't also a vital component of battle. (Most of your fire units will have a shock attack as well.)

    Cavalry:

    General:
    - Weapons will jam and misfire.
    - The field of conflict will become strewn with the bodies of wounded and dying men, lacerated and dismembered by pike, bayonet and shot.
    - Draw armies out of the cities, removing the dominance of sieges. That's being done by making region improvements - structures such as barracks, mines and palaces - exist outside of the city, vulnerable to attack. Generals can no longer afford to hide behind their city walls in the event of an invasion. They must sally forth and chase the aggressor away.

    Sea Battles:
    - 3D naval combat
    - Intuitively command vast fleets or single ships
    - After pummelling your enemy with cannon fire, close in to grapple their ship and prepare to board taking control of your men as they fight hand to hand on the decks.
    - Once a ship is conquered by bordering it, you add it to your navy, but, this doesn't mean you can deploy it straight away, you'll have to return to a harbor, recruit a crue, repair damage to the ship before you're able to put it into service.
    - Movement of ships is identical to the way land armies are moved, you have several harbors in which you can construct ships and these are then one at a time moved on the campaign map.
    - Realistic sailing model. (Different wind conditions, different light conditions, different weather conditions).
    Example: A gust of wind is caused by a whirlpool of wind moving vertically; they actually move quite slowly and cover quite large areas - you see it because it makes the surface of the water rough, and the rest shiny. It means you can build gameplay into entering and chasing gusts of wind, and using them to overtake an enemy fleet."
    - Cannon and musket fire.
    - Boarding actions.
    - A full and very detailed damage model . The cannonballs can knock down masts, damage the sails , riggings and hulls and they'll kill individual men. That obviously affects the manouvrability of your ships.
    - Full range of weather effects to influence battles. These will play out on stunning, ultra-realistic seascapes, as cannons and muskets blaze away, cutting through the smoke and fog to splinter, pierce and shatter hulls, sails and masts, laying waste to crew members and sending them to Davy Jones' Locker.
    - Ship-specific formations and admiral traits.
    - Each ship takes up a single unit space.
    - Players can field fleets of up to 20 ships with each of about 100 men on board who will make sure there is utter chaos and explosions on board.
    - Pirates are included.
    - You'll have a variety of choices to make when engaging in naval combat. Your cannons can be directed to aim for the hull to sink an enemy, for the decks to clear the way for boarding action by your marines, or for the masts to reduce the enemy's speed and maneuverability.
    - There will be various classes of vessel, which will essentially vary by maneuverability, speed, and firepower.
    - Command your ships whether you want to aim at the sails or at the hull, or at the men on the decks. You can choose what ammunition to load (Three types).
    - You'll see and feel it all: the wind in the sails, the choking atmosphere of the gun-deck as the crew frantically reload the cannons, the fights on deck... the man at the steering wheel, driving the boat. (we definatly need to read up on those nautical terms ).
    - Seablockades can be performed to cripple the economy of other nations.
    - Screenshot: Sinking ship.(PC Gameplay).

    Graphical:
    - Brand new graphics engine and technology which will include:
    - Seascapes rich with extraordinary water and weather effects that play a huge role in your eventual glorious success or ignominious defeat.
    - New advanced landscape and flora systems, dynamic weather and new battle choreography and occupy-able and destructible battlefield buildings.
    - New ballistics and physics model.

    Gameplay:
    - The game won't start full tilt with access to every single feature. Players will have the chance to wade around in the shallow end of the pool for a while before having to contend with all the options the game has to offer.
    - Even when the other options start opening up, the team has reduced many of the management hassles that are present in the series. Recruiting big armies in Medieval II or in Rome require you to issue individual production orders in a number of different provinces. Empire will allow you to build large armies simply by recruiting units at your general. He'll then translate that request into production orders in nearby provinces.
    - Similarly, players of previous Total War games have had to balance each of their provinces individually to maximize tax output and minimize unrest. Now, the game makes use of a more comprehensive tool to manage things across your entire empire.
    - Given the time period, managing unrest is going to be a relatively important concern. As your society advances, your citizens will demand more and more freedom, which can definitely put a crimp in your own policies. You can choose to liberate them and become a modern enlightened state, or you could hold on to your power a little longer by crushing your people under an oppressive regime. Where previous games saw peoples aligned by religious affiliation, Empire will tend to focus more on this concept of political freedom as a component of happiness.

    Multiplayer:
    - A brand new multiplayer component will include player rankings, leagues and ladders and completely new gameplay modes.

    Modding:
    - Modding: we want to give the modders a push in the back by releasing some tools we also work with, with these tools you can as a designer make adjustments without having to harass the programmers, this make these tools ideal for modders. We're not certain yet whether will release these tools with the game itself or put them online after the release of the game.

    Minimum and recommended specs: To Be Announced.

    LINKS:
    - http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?page=/en/communityandforums/empire.html&nav=/en/6/8/
    - http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/empiretotalwar/news.html?sid=6177177&om_act=convert&om_clk=newlyadded&tag=newlyadded;title;1
    - http://pc.ign.com/articles/815/815233p1.html
    - http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=170570&skip=yes
    - http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=171115
  • MrCarrot 3 Sep 2007 16:08:27 3,516 posts
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    - New improved systems for Trade, Diplomacy, Missions and Espionage in that Diplomats, Spies and Assassins will no longer be represented on the map.

    \o/
  • CouldntResist 3 Sep 2007 16:12:36 228 posts
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    disussedgenius wrote:
    AI:
    - Empire: Total War will boast a full re-write of the AI with a wider range of strategies and tactics, providing a formidable opponent on land, sea and on the campaign map.
    - One of the quirks of the old engine was that the diplomacy and military AI were two separate routines, developed separately by two different programmers. Those systems fought each other. The military side would say 'we need to invade' while the diplomatic side will say 'well, I just made a treaty with them.' Getting them to work together was difficult. It meant the behaviour wasn't always consistent.' Throwing out those systems should fix the quirks, while allowing for new game mechanics.

    Hmm sounds promising. An improved AI is the one thing that would motivate me to buy yet another TW game.
  • Deleted user 3 September 2007 16:12:58
    @Mr Carrot:
    Yeah. That, along with:

    - Draw armies out of the cities, removing the dominance of sieges. That's being done by making region improvements - structures such as barracks, mines and palaces - exist outside of the city, vulnerable to attack. Generals can no longer afford to hide behind their city walls in the event of an invasion. They must sally forth and chase the aggressor away.
    - Even when the other options start opening up, the team has reduced many of the management hassles that are present in the series. Recruiting big armies in Medieval II or in Rome require you to issue individual production orders in a number of different provinces. Empire will allow you to build large armies simply by recruiting units at your general. He'll then translate that request into production orders in nearby provinces.
    Sounds like a much more streamline, less cluttered game. Less micro-management, more war along with less sieges. \0/
  • figgis 3 Sep 2007 16:18:07 7,383 posts
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    Sounding even better than I had hoped for.
  • delbert 11 Jan 2008 15:38:45 2,889 posts
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    For those that can stomach CVGs website a Developer Diary for this game here..

    probably the next PC game to tear me away from my 360 (oh and probably have to upgrade as well!)
  • urban 11 Jan 2008 15:44:22 10,923 posts
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    definite pre order for me.
  • thedaveeyres 11 Jan 2008 15:49:20 10,683 posts
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    This will be the shizzle...



    IF...


    they put in NEXT/LAST Unit buttons that don't recycle from the fucking start of the queue and a SELECT UNITS WITH MOVEMENT POINTS REMAINING button.

    Otherwise, it will suck dark pendulous balls and I will go round to Rodger CreativeAssembly's house and insert my 1998 Renault Clio forcefully into his rectum.

    D****** ******r

    XBLA: Hamster Trippin
    Steam: thedaveeyres
    PSN: HamsterTrippin

  • El_MUERkO 11 Jan 2008 15:56:51 16,945 posts
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    - Pirates are included.

    \o/
  • FWB 11 Jan 2008 16:35:48 43,791 posts
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    I'm going to whoop Russia's ass as Poland... 1000 times over.
  • ratso 20 May 2008 06:00:30 1,008 posts
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    any new screens or info on this?

    Seems to have gone under the radar.
  • President_Weasel 20 May 2008 09:26:44 8,919 posts
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    X201 wrote:
    Stickman wrote:
    Oh. Yes.

    I knew pissing a load of money away on a snazzy pc would pay off in the end!

    Stickman 1-0 Bank. In your face!

    Heroic Victory?

    Now they've routed, send your light cavalry after the fleeing bank tellers.
    And send your assassins after that Howard guy off those Halifax "don't bank with us, we're incredibly annoying" adverts.
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