Quick System Shock 2 question Page 2

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  • UncleLou Moderator 10 Feb 2009 18:51:08 35,556 posts
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    Well, it pretty much is the sequel. Similar premise: you, alone, in an isolated environment populated by strange creatures and guided by an invisible helper, with different options how to solve most situations, audiologs, and whatnot.
  • morriss 10 Feb 2009 18:52:10 70,980 posts
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    But the stories and 'set design' are radically different?
  • Obiwanshinobi 10 Feb 2009 18:52:45 866 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Anyway, Bioshock was pretty good, and SS2 wasn’t quite as good as people think it was. The gap between them isn’t as great as people think.

    That's the problem with people. They have all those opinions of theirs.
  • UncleLou Moderator 10 Feb 2009 18:54:52 35,556 posts
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    Well, in the same way that the set design of The Seven Samurai and The Magnificient Seven is radically different. :)

    The stories have some strong parallels.
  • morriss 10 Feb 2009 18:55:49 70,980 posts
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    Right. Now I've got a PC worthy of games (well, the components on their way), is SS2 worth a pop? Even today?
  • kalel 10 Feb 2009 18:55:49 87,687 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    Your point was that you claim to know what people think, and how they think wrongly, which was clear, but also clearly nonsense, I am afraid. :)

    I don’t “claim to know what people think”, don’t be a twat…

    True classics tend to get overrated, this is true with books, films and yes games. It's a valid a point to claim that this is a little overrated as it is to say Casablanca is, or War and Peace.

    Are you saying that it’s impossible to state that anything is overrated because that assumes knowledge of other’s opinion that you can’t possibly know? I mean, obviously that’s true to an extent, but having played the game myself a few years ago (but not at the time) I had the luxury of being able to judge it objectively away from the hype, and while it is indeed superb, I can see that most people that love it, ignore or even deny its flaws, and yes, overrate it. A bit.
  • Phattso Moderator 10 Feb 2009 18:58:25 13,336 posts
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    I think the point is that SS2 was superb despite its flaws - I've not seen any of the fans on here defend it blindly. It simply is one of the finest games ever made (although MetalDog would have you believe SS1 was the better game, she's crazy ;-)).
  • UncleLou Moderator 10 Feb 2009 18:58:42 35,556 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    UncleLou wrote:
    Your point was that you claim to know what people think, and how they think wrongly, which was clear, but also clearly nonsense, I am afraid. :)

    I don’t “claim to know what people think”, don’t be a twat…



    kalel wrote:
    Anyway, Bioshock was pretty good, and SS2 wasn’t quite as good as people think it was. The gap between them isn’t as great as people think.

    o_O


    I wonder who behaves like a twat right now.
  • morriss 10 Feb 2009 18:59:26 70,980 posts
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    Phattso wrote:
    I think the point is that SS2 was superb despite its flaws - I've not seen any of the fans on here defend it blindly. It simply is one of the finest games ever made (although MetalDog would have you believe SS1 was the better game, she's crazy ;-)).
    I think BioShock is one of the best games I've ever played - despite its flaws.
  • kalel 10 Feb 2009 19:02:38 87,687 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    UncleLou wrote:
    Your point was that you claim to know what people think, and how they think wrongly, which was clear, but also clearly nonsense, I am afraid. :)

    I don’t “claim to know what people think”, don’t be a twat…



    kalel wrote:
    Anyway, Bioshock was pretty good, and SS2 wasn’t quite as good as people think it was. The gap between them isn’t as great as people think.

    o_O


    I wonder who behaves like a twat right now.

    Um, did you really just do the post editing to completely ignore the valid point I took the time out to respond to your post with thing?

    And sorry for calling you a twat, the use of the 'smug smilie' makes me respond like that now after too many arguments with bundy and ecosse.
  • Phattso Moderator 10 Feb 2009 19:04:17 13,336 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    Phattso wrote:
    I think the point is that SS2 was superb despite its flaws - I've not seen any of the fans on here defend it blindly. It simply is one of the finest games ever made (although MetalDog would have you believe SS1 was the better game, she's crazy ;-)).
    I think BioShock is one of the best games I've ever played - despite its flaws.

    Yes - so imagine how good SS2 must be. :)
  • kalel 10 Feb 2009 19:08:00 87,687 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    Right. Now I've got a PC worthy of games (well, the components on their way), is SS2 worth a pop? Even today?

    Is your new PC Vista?
  • UncleLou Moderator 10 Feb 2009 19:10:20 35,556 posts
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    I felt free to ignore your point after

    a) you called me a twat
    b) you replied to my earlier point rather aggressively (claiming you didn't understand it), to my surprise.

    Anyway, apology accepted. I am generally not a bit fan of the term "overrated", and try to avoid it myself. I do of course believe that there is something like "overrated", "rose-tinted glasses", but it's rarely a very helpful, nor a fair, argument.

    FWIW, there was absolutrly no hype around SS2 at the time of its release. Heck, noone even bought it. I even remember it not getting that stellar reviews in many printmags. I didn't even pick it up when it was released, but maybe a year or so later - and was completely blown away.
  • Obiwanshinobi 10 Feb 2009 19:22:29 866 posts
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    Another classified information: Deus Ex is not all that great. People who think it's great are plain wrong and I'm the most objective vessel of this knowledge as even I think Deus Ex is great, despite cliched setting and uninspiring plot. I even played and finished it not so long ago and still think Deus Ex is great, but it's just me. In fact Deus Ex is not as good as I think.
  • kalel 10 Feb 2009 19:25:57 87,687 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    I felt free to ignore your point after

    a) you called me a twat
    b) you replied to my earlier point rather aggressively (claiming you didn't understand it), to my surprise.

    Anyway, apology accepted. I am generally not a bit fan of the term "overrated", and try to avoid it myself. I do of course believe that there is something like "overrated", "rose-tinted glasses", but it's rarely a very helpful, nor a fair, argument.

    FWIW, there was absolutrly no hype around SS2 at the time of its release. Heck, noone even bought it. I even remember it not getting that stellar reviews in many printmags. I didn't even pick it up when it was released, but maybe a year or so later - and was completely blown away.

    Without wishing to prolong the ‘argument’, I think you’ll find it was your original defensive and passive aggressive response to my post that got the ball rolling (and actually yes, I genuinely didn’t understand what you were getting at in your post, I just got the general tone). Condescending to me in your follow up was the icing on the cake.

    Anyway…regardless of when SS2 started to generate legions of devoted fans, the point is I played it later, and I enjoyed it, a lot. However, again, much like many other highly rated classics, I thought some of the bigger fans were overlooking some flaws and exaggerating some strengths, especially when people are talking about Bioshock.

    It’s also worth noting that the harshest critics of Bioshock tend to be big System Shock fans.
  • Deleted user 10 February 2009 19:29:36
    So basically bioshock is shit, right
  • skuzzbag 10 Feb 2009 19:34:19 5,641 posts
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    Yes, SS2 is fantastic and Bioshock is ghay or something.
  • jellyhead 10 Feb 2009 19:41:00 24,350 posts
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    Gremmi wrote:
    So basically bioshock is shit, right
    Not at all. The problem most naysayers have with BioShock is that it wasn't SS3. Initially it was hyped as being having a depth of moral choices that hadn't been seen in a long while. A really immersive game with some tough decisions and a complicated interplay between the inhabitants of Rapture. They realised quite late that people were thinking of the game as more like a Deus Ex or a spiritual successor to the System Shock series rather than a beautifully detailed shooter. By the time they'd got the message across the game was out and the disappointment was legendary.

    BioShock is a good game, really atmospheric with a lot of detail if you go looking. There's some challenging fights, a wide variety of weapons if you choose to experiment with them and a good/evil mechanic.

    Unfortunately the more hyped aspects of the game didn't quite have the impact people expected and it was panned.

    This signature intentionally left blank.

  • UncleLou Moderator 10 Feb 2009 19:42:34 35,556 posts
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    I honestly think you're reading something into my post that wasn't there, or at least wasn't intended to be there - you mean the "I am never quite sure what that means," bit, right? That's because I am really never quite sure what it means when people say that. Like I explained above, I have trouble with that argument.

    Which is why I made a more factual point afterwards, namely that the big difference between the two games for me is the atmosphere more than anything else - in response to your post that the games aren't that different (which they indeed aren't, on a features checklist).
  • kalel 10 Feb 2009 19:49:07 87,687 posts
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    Aw whatever, I only got aggy because I just...GOD DAMMIT I just respect you so much!

    I...I love you Lou...let's never do this again...

  • morriss 10 Feb 2009 20:24:33 70,980 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    morriss wrote:
    Right. Now I've got a PC worthy of games (well, the components on their way), is SS2 worth a pop? Even today?

    Is your new PC Vista?
    No.
  • Katsumoto 10 Feb 2009 21:38:25 1,358 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    Right. Now I've got a PC worthy of games (well, the components on their way), is SS2 worth a pop? Even today?

    Go for it. It isn't so old that the graphics hurt your eyes, esp. with a few mods etc. And for my money it is the scariest game ever made, by quite a way - I'd be quite interested to know if you agree having played it!

    I haven't actually completed it due to wussing out about half way through :p. Really need to get some mates together and do it co-op to see if it's more manageable.
  • rogermellie 10 Feb 2009 21:39:00 24 posts
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    Great game. Though System Shock 1 was even better I thought, just for Cyberspace :)

    It's nice to read someone with the same opinion as me!
  • rogermellie 10 Feb 2009 21:41:03 24 posts
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    Post deleted
  • Khanivor 10 Feb 2009 23:13:13 40,759 posts
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    Phattso wrote:
    I think the point is that SS2 was superb despite its flaws - I've not seen any of the fans on here defend it blindly. It simply is one of the finest games ever made (although MetalDog would have you believe SS1 was the better game, she's crazy ;-)).

    She's right though! Partly for the reason disc mentioned.
  • UncleLou Moderator 10 Feb 2009 23:18:13 35,556 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Aw whatever, I only got aggy because I just...GOD DAMMIT I just respect you so much!

    I...I love you Lou...let's never do this again...


    Just for the record, I was reduced to tears and sent kalel a love letter. It's all good. :)
  • Hunam 10 Feb 2009 23:19:59 20,674 posts
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    If only Kalel had played more System Shock all this could have been averted. Next he'll tell me that Planescape: Torment isn't a show-piece for the best writing in a game.
  • Hunam 10 Feb 2009 23:23:09 20,674 posts
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    GTA4? All it is is movie quotes. I'm surprised that the producers of The Guru didn't sue them outright for lifting a good 5 minutes of dialogue.
  • Phattso Moderator 10 Feb 2009 23:26:47 13,336 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    Phattso wrote:
    I think the point is that SS2 was superb despite its flaws - I've not seen any of the fans on here defend it blindly. It simply is one of the finest games ever made (although MetalDog would have you believe SS1 was the better game, she's crazy ;-)).

    She's right though! Partly for the reason disc mentioned.

    I liked the first game (although my PC at the time was woefully underspecced, so it was a slideshow most of the time) but the addition of co-op and a far greater atmosphere made the second one the better game for me.

    Both are better than Bioshock, though. :)
  • Hunam 10 Feb 2009 23:28:35 20,674 posts
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    TBH, Dead Space is arguably better than Bioshock and that's me being diplomatic. It's actually tons better.
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