Depression Page 215

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  • FuzzyDucky 10 Aug 2017 01:41:08 2,397 posts
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    My experience of antidepressants are that they sort out your mood a bit but completely break you in other ways.

    Do any of ye guys use St. John's Wort? It was banned in Ireland about 15 years ago, probably because half the population are tanked up on prescription meds... I could just hop a bus as I live in a border county and get some from NI
  • GuybrushThreepwood 10 Aug 2017 07:17:12 1,005 posts
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    @FuzzyDucky I've used it in the past. Didn't really help me. It's helped others I've known.

    This 5htp is available online (Amazon) and is natural and has fewer side effects than ADs. It does have some though for some people and they advise not taking it longer than 3 months and not in conjunction with any other ssris. It's the basic building block of serotonin. So more of it in your body leads to more happy thoughts.

    That said your body will adjust (as it does with ads), hence the 3 month limit. Advantages are coming off it is nothing like an ad and as I've said, side effects are way less and it's natural.
  • Jeepers 10 Aug 2017 07:53:48 16,274 posts
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    I'm not sure it being "natural" is a sure-fire positive. Unless we want to give hemlock another go.
  • FuzzyDucky 10 Aug 2017 09:43:31 2,397 posts
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    @GuybrushThreepwood Cheers for the info, I might see if they'll ship to Ireland (one of my besties currently lives in the UK but he's home every other week, so could ship to him, maybe).
  • FuzzyDucky 10 Aug 2017 09:44:55 2,397 posts
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    Jeepers wrote:
    I'm not sure it being "natural" is a sure-fire positive. Unless we want to give hemlock another go.
    Hahaha, yes one of my friends will only take stuff if it's natural, because "chemicals are bad"... She insists that natural stuff doesn't have chemicals...

    You can tell someone didn't pay attention in science class at school.
  • DrStrangelove 10 Aug 2017 10:00:47 11,019 posts
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    My experiences with Fluoxetine:

    On the upside, it did ease the depression. It was a bit as if half the rocks in the backpack were taken out, and with less weight and anxiety dragging me down it was easier to go out and be active, work etc.

    However side effects were strong. Physically there was "only" tremor (trembling hands). Mentally there was more: I became careless and indifferent. I'd describe it as a general "yea, whatever" mood. Instead of caring too much I generally cared too little, because... well, whatever. I started smoking, drinking, and most crucially, drunk driving. I knew it was bad, but I didn't care. But sober I also did some reckless driving which put me in two life-threatening situations on the motorbike where only great luck prevented worse.

    I've also had a few suicide attempts, because hell why not. What does it matter.

    With time, I felt number and number. I became very emotionally flat, I suffered from emptiness and even wished I could feel bad emotions again.

    Then due to personal reshuffle at the clinic I got a new psychiatrist who was very patronising and I didn't feel taken seriously at all. She wanted me to join alcoholics anonymous but I didn't want to and just stopped going to the psychiatrist. I knew it could be dangerous to just stop taking meds, but... yea, whatever. (when I suddenly just didn't show up to my appointment anymore, they didn't even try to call me--which imo shines no good light on them considering that I had been hospitalised there after a suicide attempt a few years earlier).

    Thankfully there were no withdrawal symptoms at all--and my drinking habits instantly improved. I didn't even actively try to, I just didn't drink whenever I felt like it. The drunk driving stopped because I apparently gained back some healthy impulse control. Today the thought of how drunk I was driving is shocking to myself, and I guess I'm really lucky that nothing ever happened.

    Later I was rediagnosed elsewhere as bipolar II, a diagnosis which means I should never have got anti-depressants because of dangerous adverse effects that can worsen some of the symptoms.



    I got Lamotrigine then (which is used to treat bipolar disorder) which I was very satisfied with for 5 years, as it seemed to help and stabilise me without any noticeable side effects. Until I went to hospital again recently and they discovered that my haemogram was critical. The meds are the most likely cause so they discontinued them. Crippling depressive episodes followed that had a very bad impact on treatment and therapy. I'm out now again and don't get any meds anymore. Only after discontinuation I realised how much of a difference they made. I'm starting to get better access to my feelings and thoughts again, but that's not really much comfort when the mental pain paralyses me.

    I long hesitated to go to the hospital because I didn't want to interrupt my job training which meant a lot to me. Currently it's doubtful if I can continue it at all.

    So now I've learned at the same time how helpful/important meds can be, and how dangerous they can be even if I don't notice any side effects. This sucks.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 10:08:10 10-08-2017
  • mrharvest 22 Aug 2017 06:59:38 5,430 posts
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    Just an update:
    I had to go to look after my mother for two weeks when she was recovering of a surgery. It was pretty draining as she lives in this primitive little cottage in the middle of the forest in Finland and I had to pretty much keep an eye out for her 24/7. To top it off, on the way back my direct flight was cancelled and I got rerouted the next day to take a much longer flight via Heathrow (16 hours instead of 12 - yeah, no thanks).

    So when I got back you can imagine I wasn't in the best condition. I was kind of rambling and told my wife I'd been thinking if it just wasn't better for everyone if I was dead; I don't think I'll really ever be able to work effectively again and I think I've already accomplished quite a lot in my life. Instead I'm just making everyone unhappy because I can't cope with stuff.

    Well, she took it the wrong way. She thought I meant that I was going to do something drastic - all I wanted was to discuss it in an objective manner, but apparently there's things you can't say to anyone except your own doctor. She called the hospital, they said I should come in for a chat. I thought it was a terrible idea. It was midnight and I'd just been on a 16 hour flight and stuck at an airport hotel before that. Not the best time to have a chat with a new doctor.

    You can probably guess where this is going? So, they sectioned me. First night at a general ward with all the loonies. This was the single worst experience of my life so far. I've been mugged in Africa, had malaria, had to stand guard in -25C when my squad mate forgot to come relieve me, etc. But this was the single worst experience of my life.

    The next day my wife came to visit and realised that it really, really wasn't a good idea but because they had taken me in on the Form 1, the doctors couldn't even discharge me because laws here are... Shall we say strict. Luckily she was able to get them to transfer me to a different ward by threatening them with the UN human rights and the embassy. The next ward was fine, imagine a Travelodge where you can't leave or go outside.

    Finally on Monday we managed to convince the doctors that I really would recover a lot better if I was discharged, and there wasn't any immediate danger anyway.

    Sheesh.
    Edit: TLDR: I had a rough experience.

    Edited by mrharvest at 09:40:49 22-08-2017
  • GuybrushThreepwood 22 Aug 2017 07:25:16 1,005 posts
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    Post deleted
  • solidsneek 22 Aug 2017 09:15:26 372 posts
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    Well I didn't know this existed so hey here we go!

    Recently split up with my partner of 6 years we have 2 children and I am living back at my parents no real reason apart from we just grew apart and think we are better as friends. Since moving out I found out she had slept with someone who we know (NOT A FRIEND OF MINE) in the house which obviously hurts like hell. I am on anti depressants which do seem to help.

    I think the hardest thing is knowing that she has always been my best friend and probably always will. I am sure it's something I will get over eventually but the thought of her being with someone else breaks my heart.
  • onemoresolo 22 Aug 2017 09:31:43 37 posts
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    mrharvest wrote:

    Sheesh.
    TLDR: Don't speak openly to anyone except your own doctor.
    While what happened to you is obviously awful, I do not believe that conclusion is correct and if anything is dangerous.

    In my experience, talking openly helps more than any meds, therapy etc. We should be encouraged to speak freely and seek help and support when needed. Keeping things locked in only makes things worse.

    I don't believe encouraging people to not speak to people about what they are experiencing based on one incident (however bad) is right.

    That said, I hope things get better for you and you and your wife can put that behind you and move forward.

    Edited by onemoresolo at 09:31:50 22-08-2017
  • mrharvest 22 Aug 2017 09:39:49 5,430 posts
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    onemoresolo wrote:
    While what happened to you is obviously awful, I do not believe that conclusion is correct and if anything is dangerous.

    In my experience, talking openly helps more than any meds, therapy etc. We should be encouraged to speak freely and seek help and support when needed. Keeping things locked in only makes things worse.
    Yeah, of course you are correct. I just don't live in the UK anymore and here they can box you up with no appeal if you say the wrong things, something which I didn't know before. My post was just a bit of ranting to get it off my chest. I'll edit it out.
  • GuybrushThreepwood 22 Aug 2017 09:54:13 1,005 posts
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    @mrharvest I deleted my earlier post as I'd made it while tired and without time to sense check it which is never a good thing to do on this thread.

    The TLDR version of it was that in the UK, I'd recommend talking to someone as the alternative can be much worse. I wasn't sure if you were in the UK though. Glad you're out and feeling better.
  • GuybrushThreepwood 22 Aug 2017 09:58:34 1,005 posts
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    @solidsneek I was in a very similar situation to you many years ago and I ended up on AD's and was in a very bad way. I did wonder what the point of living any more was.

    I can honestly say I've had some of the best moments of my life since that time. So yes, it does hurt at first, but it gets better. Someone always has to be the first to "move on" and the other will always be hurt. Important thing is to get yourself back on your feet and be there for your kids as they will need you in years to come. It does get easier.
  • solidsneek 22 Aug 2017 10:05:40 372 posts
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    GuybrushThreepwood wrote:
    @solidsneek I was in a very similar situation to you many years ago and I ended up on AD's and was in a very bad way. I did wonder what the point of living any more was.

    I can honestly say I've had some of the best moments of my life since that time. So yes, it does hurt at first, but it gets better. Someone always has to be the first to "move on" and the other will always be hurt. Important thing is to get yourself back on your feet and be there for your kids as they will need you in years to come. It does get easier.
    That's the thing that scares me I have often thought it would be easier if I wasn't around! But I have to remain positive for the kids and I want to try and book a trip away next one with the kids one with a friend or myself bit of searching.
  • quadfather 22 Aug 2017 10:15:12 28,883 posts
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    @solidsneek

    If it's any help, when my ex wife cheated on me and fucked up the whole thing, my world was a complete mess and it was for quite some time. However, over time, you do eventually see light at the end of the tunnel and it's very liberating when you get back to yourself and realise you're in a much better place without that person. I sometimes look back at the stuff I was talking about at the time and it's clear that I'm in a different place now than what I used to be.

    And on a similarly depressing note, my sister and I visited my mum who has been in a care home for a year and a half with Alzheimers since my dad died. My sister has been visiting more than me as I'm a fair way away, whereas she is much closer and she's more used to how my mum is now. I however, was not. I was prepared for the worst, but I don't think there's anything that can prepare you when you see your own mum practically decimated both physically and mentally. We used to be able to at least have a conversation where she would say random words, then pause, waiting for me to answer. It was all nonsense that she spoke, but it still felt like a conversation of sorts.

    Now it's all gone - she doesn't recognise me any more and just shuffles past me. If I try to engage with her, she looks at me, then looks through me and finally just walks on. And there's nothing you can do.

    We don't know how long we've got - it could be 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years, but it's getting *fucking* hard going to see her now.

    And I've this minute just realised it is my dads birthday today.

    Fuck it all!
  • mrharvest 22 Aug 2017 10:25:22 5,430 posts
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    @quadfather I'm really sorry to hear about your mum. My nan had dementia and she didn't recognise her own daughter who had looked after her for 15 years. She usually mistakenly recognised me as her brother and was always asking about the lumber trade and farming.
  • solidsneek 22 Aug 2017 10:27:48 372 posts
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    quadfather wrote:
    @solidsneek

    If it's any help, when my ex wife cheated on me and fucked up the whole thing, my world was a complete mess and it was for quite some time. However, over time, you do eventually see light at the end of the tunnel and it's very liberating when you get back to yourself and realise you're in a much better place without that person. I sometimes look back at the stuff I was talking about at the time and it's clear that I'm in a different place now than what I used to be.

    And on a similarly depressing note, my sister and I visited my mum who has been in a care home for a year and a half with Alzheimers since my dad died. My sister has been visiting more than me as I'm a fair way away, whereas she is much closer and she's more used to how my mum is now. I however, was not. I was prepared for the worst, but I don't think there's anything that can prepare you when you see your own mum practically decimated both physically and mentally. We used to be able to at least have a conversation where she would say random words, then pause, waiting for me to answer. It was all nonsense that she spoke, but it still felt like a conversation of sorts.

    Now it's all gone - she doesn't recognise me any more and just shuffles past me. If I try to engage with her, she looks at me, then looks through me and finally just walks on. And there's nothing you can do.

    We don't know how long we've got - it could be 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years, but it's getting *fucking* hard going to see her now.

    And I've this minute just realised it is my dads birthday today.

    Fuck it all!
    Sorry to hear man!

    and thanks for the earlier advice.
  • quadfather 22 Aug 2017 10:39:24 28,883 posts
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    mrharvest wrote:
    @quadfather I'm really sorry to hear about your mum. My nan had dementia and she didn't recognise her own daughter who had looked after her for 15 years. She usually mistakenly recognised me as her brother and was always asking about the lumber trade and farming.
    Yeah, when my mum engaged more, I used to get mistaken for various relatives all the time.

    The really sad thing is that she doesn't even know her husband has died. In some ways though, she's been spared the grief of that. Who knows what goes on subconsciously though - maybe she does know deep down. Such a fucking cruel disease.

    Still, it doesn't actually matter that much now, as she doesn't really engage with anyone anymore
  • quadfather 22 Aug 2017 10:42:12 28,883 posts
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    @solidsneek

    It just takes a lot of time I found. And don't suppress your emotions - let them happen if you can. Helps with the 'repair', so to speak. The frustrating thing for me was that I kept thinking I was over it for ages, only for it to definitely not be and I'd have another blowout. But the important thing to remember is that these feelings are normal - they are meant to be there as part of the body and mind's way of responding to the trauma and it's way of going about fixing it. Just recognising when things are amiss is good enough half the time and letting yourself go along with it.
  • captainrentboy 22 Aug 2017 11:44:08 1,666 posts
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    @solidsneek
    I've gone through a similar experience over the last year, and for those first few months it was fucking torture. We were together for 14 years, before she basically decided that she'd had enough and that the relationship/marriage was over. (Totally and utterly out of the blue, no warning, no arguments or awkwardness leading up to it, just "We're done")

    It's been a year, and I'm in a lot better place emotionally than I was over those first couple of months.
    It's not perfect by any means, I can't lie, (as was mentioned above) the reality of the situation can still hit you and hurt like a mother fucker 12 months down the line, even when you think that you're totally over it all.
    But I've tried my hardest not to let all this shit totally break me down.
    Since the break up I've learned to drive, lost over two stone through dieting/gyming, absolutely nailed my degree studies (Distinctions all round), and am now in a good enough position to be job hunting and getting interviews.
    It's hard, and requires a shit load of will power, but it does get easier as the weeks/months go by.
  • solidsneek 22 Aug 2017 11:46:12 372 posts
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    captainrentboy wrote:
    @solidsneek
    I've gone through a similar experience over the last year, and for those first few months it was fucking torture. We were together for 14 years, before she basically decided that she'd had enough and that the relationship/marriage was over. (Totally and utterly out of the blue, no warning, no arguments or awkwardness leading up to it, just "We're done")

    It's been a year, and I'm in a lot better place emotionally than I was over those first couple of months.
    It's not perfect by any means, I can't lie, (as was mentioned above) the reality of the situation can still hit you and hurt like a mother fucker 12 months down the line, even when you think that you're totally over it all.
    But I've tried my hardest not to let all this shit totally break me down.
    Since the break up I've learned to drive, lost over two stone through dieting/gyming, absolutely nailed my degree studies (Distinctions all round), and am now in a good enough position to be job hunting and getting interviews.
    It's hard, and requires a shit load of will power, but it does get easier as the weeks/months go by.
    Thanks man and glad to hear you are doing so well dude.

    2 stone that's impressive!
  • DrStrangelove 22 Aug 2017 11:49:12 11,019 posts
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    onemoresolo wrote:
    mrharvest wrote:

    Sheesh.
    TLDR: Don't speak openly to anyone except your own doctor.
    While what happened to you is obviously awful, I do not believe that conclusion is correct and if anything is dangerous.

    In my experience, talking openly helps more than any meds, therapy etc. We should be encouraged to speak freely and seek help and support when needed. Keeping things locked in only makes things worse.

    I don't believe encouraging people to not speak to people about what they are experiencing based on one incident (however bad) is right.
    I agree that it is very important to talk about your problems, fears, pain, sorrow, whatever. However there's one thing I've learned over the years: do not talk about suicide. With nobody, including your doctor.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 11:52:03 22-08-2017
  • GuybrushThreepwood 22 Aug 2017 15:08:09 1,005 posts
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    @DrStrangelove I'd disagree and say it's important to speak about suicide if you feel like you're in a place where you are thinking of committing it. If people lock you up for your own good for a period of time then that is (usually) better for you in the long run than not speaking to anyone and acting upon your thoughts. If nothing else, ring your country's equivalent of the Samaritans which you can do anonymously.

    Had I not spoken to anyone in the past and internalised it and had no help, then I think I possibly would not be here.
  • GuybrushThreepwood 22 Aug 2017 15:29:29 1,005 posts
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    solidsneek wrote:
    GuybrushThreepwood wrote:
    @solidsneek I was in a very similar situation to you many years ago and I ended up on AD's and was in a very bad way. I did wonder what the point of living any more was.

    I can honestly say I've had some of the best moments of my life since that time. So yes, it does hurt at first, but it gets better. Someone always has to be the first to "move on" and the other will always be hurt. Important thing is to get yourself back on your feet and be there for your kids as they will need you in years to come. It does get easier.
    That's the thing that scares me I have often thought it would be easier if I wasn't around! But I have to remain positive for the kids and I want to try and book a trip away next one with the kids one with a friend or myself bit of searching.
    It will never be better for your kids if you kill yourself. Trust me on this. I came close to making that mistake and had to explain to my kids why I stupidly thought that would be the case.

    It may be the easy way out for you, but your kids would have to grow up without a father and that is not going to be a good thing. There were times in my life where I felt that I was only living for the sake of those who would be hurt by my death, but that's what you've got to do and honestly, things will get better.

    I think during my divorce was the lowest point of my life. I'm honestly glad it happened now.
  • DrStrangelove 22 Aug 2017 22:40:09 11,019 posts
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    @GuybrushThreepwood

    Well I guess it does make sense if you're "out of control" in the sense that you might commit suicidal acts even though you don't actually want to die. But otherwise I found talking about it very unhelpful, even hazardous.
  • GuybrushThreepwood 23 Aug 2017 04:59:24 1,005 posts
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    I'm not an expert and I think we can all agree this is a dangerous subject to give advice on, so, if someone is experiencing suicidal thoughts, they should probably go to a reputable website such as the samaritans or the NHS and act accordingly on the advice given there by people who are.

    Edited by GuybrushThreepwood at 04:59:48 23-08-2017
  • DrStrangelove 23 Aug 2017 20:00:53 11,019 posts
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    I agree that you should if you're not sure about it.
  • spamdangled 8 Sep 2017 01:52:20 30,813 posts
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    Post deleted
  • foster2007 8 Sep 2017 09:36:32 160 posts
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    For those who suffer with anxiety, depression, i'd advise you try drinking matcha green tea, it has this lovely calming effect that I have yet to find with any food/drink product. Get yourself a matcha making kit off amazon and for the tea itself, I tend to use superchimps matcha.

    Mighty Matcha is also quite decent, I believe its organic too, superchimps offering not being organic.

    Edited by foster2007 at 09:40:10 08-09-2017

    Edited by foster2007 at 09:40:40 08-09-2017
  • Garfy 8 Sep 2017 10:06:36 1,273 posts
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    Plus it tastes really nice too :)

    Edit: @spamdangled I saw your post before you deleted it and while I can't claim to know what you're going through I can say that things can get better, you never know whats around the next corner. It started for me by getting over my fears and starting on medication that I'd long known I'd needed.

    Edited by Garfy at 10:13:48 08-09-2017
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