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  • drhcnip 17 Feb 2014 10:33:07 2,452 posts
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    yep, anothe vote for mindfulness here
  • Deleted user 17 February 2014 10:35:00
    While you're waiting to get on a CBT course, you could consider a self help book on the subject. When I was on a counselling course, this was highly recommended by the counsellors. A recent online course I trialled for a University seemed to borrow heavily from the book.

    I've found the topic very handy if for no other reason than its easy to forget that "its not all about me" and people can be grumpy or pissed off for their own reasons that have nothing to do with you... and they're not always talking about you etc.
  • Deleted user 17 February 2014 10:35:53
    Oh and +1 me for the Mindfullness Meditation. I use that myself daily and find it calms me down a great deal and helps to focus on now rather than worrying about the future or regretting the past.
  • drhcnip 17 Feb 2014 10:38:27 2,452 posts
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    tbh, i would also go through the gp rather than self-refer....the more people you've got on board around you the better...
  • drhcnip 17 Feb 2014 10:42:57 2,452 posts
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    another few books that i've found useful/interesting are (we should have a central list somewhere....;) :


    Mind over mood

    Counselling for toads

    Edited by drhcnip at 10:43:37 17-02-2014
  • werewolf_poo 17 Feb 2014 10:46:08 136 posts
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    Thanks, its amazing how big a response this type of thing gets. I'm always in denial that i have a problem and whenI feel better I forget all about getting help. I get super emotional and think into things too much, this is what I have been told by many people over the years, I just hadnt realised how bad I was until I got into a new relationship. I feel more like the woman :)

    I will get in touch with my gp.
  • Deleted user 17 February 2014 10:50:26
    Another thing is to realise that your brain is a mixed up bunch of chemicals and sometimes you feel crappy for no other reason than the chemicals in it are out of sync.

    I had a day last week where I was very down. I thought "yeah, had too much to drink over the weekend and your brain is letting you know about it now" and I just ignored it and knew it would pass. Thats a point actually, I spent a lot of years suffering from depression and had no clue what the cause was. Turned out it was alcohol. I cut that out of my life (and then cut it back) and the depression went.
  • TarickStonefire 17 Feb 2014 12:57:52 2,905 posts
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    CBT changed my life. Seems weird to say, all I did was go sit in a room with a nice person who listened and *really* cared and wanted to help. That in itself started to make me feel better. We worked out systems that were suitable for me and my particular symptoms and habits, and they really helped bring all this stuff back down to a much more 'normal' and handle-able level.

    I actually now think everyone in the country needs a few sessions of CBT - everyone has issues!

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • TarickStonefire 17 Feb 2014 12:59:24 2,905 posts
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    PhoenixGleam wrote:
    Oh and +1 me for the Mindfullness Meditation. I use that myself daily and find it calms me down a great deal and helps to focus on now rather than worrying about the future or regretting the past.
    What do you do? There's so many ways to meditate, and I've tried it but apparently going in at 10 minutes per time was not a good idea as it's way too long for a beginner.

    But so many people have said 'mindfulness!' to me, I'd like to find a way to make it work for me.

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • TarickStonefire 17 Feb 2014 13:00:15 2,905 posts
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    werewolf_poo wrote:
    Thanks, its amazing how big a response this type of thing gets. I'm always in denial that i have a problem and whenI feel better I forget all about getting help. I get super emotional and think into things too much.
    You are me and I claim my £5.

    What made me seek counselling was that my anxiety and worry and fear of the future and regret about the past, and filtering *everything* in the present through those negative past/future lenses, was leading to some serious anger issues, including smashing stuff to 'hurt' myself. Such as my iPhone. Not good.

    My wife has her own issues with borderline-personality and i felt I was making it worse but also needed support myself, so she recommended therapy and I thought, "Really? Therapy?" but it's perfectly normal and absolutely wonderful! And it works, especially if you really want to change your habits, which you obviously do :)

    Edited by TarickStonefire at 13:03:12 17-02-2014

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 17 Feb 2014 13:01:28 6,654 posts
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    My problem with CBT, when applied to mental illness, was, the time when it was most needed, when you were supposed to rationalise emotion essentially, I was least equipped to be do so.
  • TarickStonefire 17 Feb 2014 13:07:45 2,905 posts
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    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    My problem with CBT, when applied to mental illness, was, the time when it was most needed, when you were supposed to rationalise emotion essentially, I was least equipped to be do so.
    Yeah that's similar to what my wife's circumstances, whereas I think I was (still am, often) in a cycle of seriously black thoughts that just made everything else seem awful but it was mainly a bad habit. I needed a little worksheet to go through or else, yes, I was unable to just say "Well this is silly. Let's be rational!".

    The worksheet was about 'hot thoughts' - the thought that has triggered the current breakdown or anxiety, and which is feeding all the others. I'd work through what evidence I had to even be concerned about the 'hot thought', what evidence there was for it being pointless to worry about, likely alternative reasons for the thing that had caused the hot thought etc.

    Working through it practically like that usually led me to see the hot thought for what it was: my bad habits playing tricks on me again. From there I was able to rebuild some positive 'norms' in place of things that had built up such as "everyone at work secretly hates me" or "my work has always been terrible but nobody has had the guts to tell me so far" and so on.

    I suppose if your issues are categorised as 'mental illness' it may be harder to get the benefit from a process like that, but I'm pretty new to it all although I know different processes work for different people.

    What worked/works for you?

    Edited by TarickStonefire at 13:09:17 17-02-2014

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 17 Feb 2014 13:11:59 6,654 posts
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    There's a good deal of overlap. Good that it works for you. You need to be quite a logical thinker I imagine.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 17 Feb 2014 13:13:53 6,654 posts
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    TarickStonefire wrote:

    What worked/works for you?
    A cocktail of antipsychotic medication and prozac :D
  • Deleted user 17 February 2014 13:35:26
    TarickStonefire wrote:
    PhoenixGleam wrote:
    Oh and +1 me for the Mindfulness Meditation. I use that myself daily and find it calms me down a great deal and helps to focus on now rather than worrying about the future or regretting the past.
    What do you do? There's so many ways to meditate, and I've tried it but apparently going in at 10 minutes per time was not a good idea as it's way too long for a beginner.

    But so many people have said 'mindfulness!' to me, I'd like to find a way to make it work for me.
    Here is a place where you can learn to meditate via their "Learn how to meditate in 5 days" link. Give it a go.

    What I do myself is "just" meditate for 10 minutes a day, usually when I'm in bed and about to go to sleep. "Ideally" (according to people who are into it, like Buddhist monks I've talked to), you're best doing 10 minutes in the morning (calms you down and gets you in the "zone" before your day starts) and 10 minutes at the end of the day (gets you to calm down after all the crap of the day).

    I also read that 20 minutes a day for 6 weeks (may have been 5 weeks, I cant remember), has been shown to lead to increased brain activity in those areas of the brain linked with happiness / emotional well being. Can't say I do that much and have to admit I nod off sometimes while meditating (as you "should" meditate sat upright really).

    The way I meditate is just by concentrating on my breath as it goes in and out of your nose. You breath slow and normally. You will have thoughts intrude, but the thing to do is be aware of them and return your mind to your breath again. I've found that saying things like "in" and "out" in your head as you breath in and out (or "om" if you want to get very into it :) ) are helpful ways of clearing the mind of thoughts. If you get an itch or pain in your body while doing this, I tend to focus on that and it "tends" to clear off and its also part of being aware of yourself.

    As well as this, mindfulness is being "in the moment" and being aware of what you are doing "now". So you practice it while cleaning your teeth for example. Rather than daydreaming or thinking about the day ahead while cleaning your teeth, focus fully on what you are doing.

    Through this and meditation, you gradually train the mind to stop worrying about the past or the future and instead stay in now.

    That's the basics of it as I understand it.
  • TarickStonefire 17 Feb 2014 13:50:52 2,905 posts
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    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    There's a good deal of overlap. Good that it works for you. You need to be quite a logical thinker I imagine.
    Well it makes an impact, but like you it's not like it immediately quells the feeling. Just gives me some rational hooks to grab onto to keep me from reacting badly…

    But yeah as it happens I'm annoyingly logical. Sometimes I'm borderline Sheldon. Annoying. Probably down to a distinct lack of friends in my life. I mean, I have them. I just don't hang out with them, ever, for a variety of reasons, none of which are particularly justifiable really I suppose. I just don't do large groups of people!

    Edited by TarickStonefire at 13:53:57 17-02-2014

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • TarickStonefire 17 Feb 2014 13:52:21 2,905 posts
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    PhoenixGleam wrote:
    TarickStonefire wrote:
    PhoenixGleam wrote:
    Oh and +1 me for the Mindfulness Meditation. I use that myself daily and find it calms me down a great deal and helps to focus on now rather than worrying about the future or regretting the past.
    What do you do? There's so many ways to meditate, and I've tried it but apparently going in at 10 minutes per time was not a good idea as it's way too long for a beginner.

    But so many people have said 'mindfulness!' to me, I'd like to find a way to make it work for me.
    Here is a place where you can learn to meditate via their "Learn how to meditate in 5 days" link. Give it a go.

    (...lots of really useful stuff...)


    That's the basics of it as I understand it.
    Nice one, and thanks for the link :)

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • drhcnip 17 Feb 2014 13:56:50 2,452 posts
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    i use mindfullness when im out walking the dog...which is a good time to do it

    as has been said, its being in the moment..rather than pootling along, winding mystlf up, getting angry, ruminatin, panicking and all the other shite, its feeling the wind moving on your face, when i look up at the trees in the woodland, its bringing each leaf sharply into focus....it sounds like right old hippy shite but it works better for me as tne cbt sheets just panic me further....;)

    big fan, as is theperson-centred/ cbt counselling wifey....

    while youre waiting, as well as the reading, see if you can start thinking about achievable goals in life...mine was the nanowrimo last year....problem is, as bitch said, atm youre in the hardest place to be to actually do anything

    i came out of cbt better than i went in, though the drugs help....but theres still a lot to do and i think i'll be back there soon

    good luck, though!
  • drhcnip 17 Feb 2014 13:59:43 2,452 posts
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    another way i used to calm the panics was square breathing..i found it really useful and still use it

    Breathing techniques

    Edited by drhcnip at 14:00:42 17-02-2014
  • TarickStonefire 17 Feb 2014 14:40:15 2,905 posts
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    I really appreciate the words about how you actually, practically apply 'mindfulness'. I understand the theory, and I understand it's different to meditation, but couldn't really work out *what* you were supposed to do in any given situation so it's useful to read that. I will start paying more attention to the here and now when I am out and about.

    Curious also that this has a tangible positive effect! I have put it to the back of my mind because I didn't think it would be *that* amazing at dealing with overwhelming black feelings and thoughts, and more a better way to live generally. But I will try it now!

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • Deleted user 17 February 2014 14:47:41
    TarickStonefire wrote:
    Curious also that this has a tangible positive effect! I have put it to the back of my mind because I didn't think it would be *that* amazing at dealing with overwhelming black feelings and thoughts, and more a better way to live generally. But I will try it now!

    There was an Horizon special about it which seemed to suggest that there were measurable improvements after 6 weeks in a person's CAT scans after meditating and practising mindfulness.

    Couple of links about it:

    Link 1
    Link 2
  • drhcnip 17 Feb 2014 14:48:06 2,452 posts
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    the analogy given in my cbt was treating the moment like changing from an old vhs to bluray - that difference thats hugely identifiable when you go back...stopping and bringing everything into sharp hd..images, sensations, sound......its the best tool in my kit......
  • drhcnip 17 Feb 2014 14:51:16 2,452 posts
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    theres some other really useful stuff on this website when you get deeper into it, but this explains mindfulness and gives a few other examples



    Mindfulness
  • Chopsen 17 Feb 2014 15:28:36 15,747 posts
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    TarickStonefire wrote:
    I actually now think everyone in the country needs a few sessions of CBT - everyone has issues!
    Yeah, a lot of it life skills that everybody could use to some degree to make stuff better. When things are going well and people just cope, I think they effectively use a lot of the techniques CBT teaches without knowing it.
  • Chopsen 17 Feb 2014 15:35:46 15,747 posts
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    Re mindfulness this:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guided-Mindfulness-Meditation-Jon-Kabat-Zinn/dp/1604077956/ref=la_B000AQ12GA_1_5/276-9385544-0697044?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392651257&sr=1-5

    I think is really good. Bloody expensive, but it uses guided meditation to explain the actual technique to you while also getting you to do it.

    He's got some other CDs, but I think that's the best one.
  • Chopsen 17 Feb 2014 15:45:22 15,747 posts
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    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    TarickStonefire wrote:

    What worked/works for you?
    A cocktail of antipsychotic medication and prozac :D
    Yup, different people need different things.

    Generally, CBT works/is recommended for people with mild/moderate depression/anxiety. With very severe symptoms, your ability to do stuff like this suffers - concentration and motivations especially.

    The trick is knowing which treatment is best for which people.

    I was a bit cynical when the introduced the IAPT thing tbh, but it's worked out really well in providing better access to CBT to people who really need it.
  • drhcnip 17 Feb 2014 16:04:02 2,452 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    TarickStonefire wrote:
    I actually now think everyone in the country needs a few sessions of CBT - everyone has issues!
    Yeah, a lot of it life skills that everybody could use to some degree to make stuff better. When things are going well and people just cope, I think they effectively use a lot of the techniques CBT teaches without knowing it.

    quite right....i remember going through stuff and thinking, yep, just common sense....which is the first thing to go straight out of the window....
  • RedSparrows 17 Feb 2014 16:08:05 22,090 posts
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    People like to go for walks to be quiet and 'feel' nature around them, and such - 'clear their head' etc etc. Mindfulness is the next level, but there is certainly a common appreciation of its basic tenets, if not its basic methods.
  • drhcnip 17 Feb 2014 16:25:28 2,452 posts
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    agreed, its quite something when you achieve it

    its roots are in buddhism and it shows....
  • Deleted user 17 February 2014 16:29:18
    Chopsen wrote:
    Re mindfulness this:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guided-Mindfulness-Meditation-Jon-Kabat-Zinn/dp/1604077956/ref=la_B000AQ12GA_1_5/276-9385544-0697044?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392651257&sr=1-5

    I think is really good. Bloody expensive, but it uses guided meditation to explain the actual technique to you while also getting you to do it.

    He's got some other CDs, but I think that's the best one.
    I "think" its on Youtube for free. I'm not 100% though as I'm in work. Link
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