Virtual Console 50Hz travesty

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  • ksvenheim 19 Dec 2006 17:23:43 32 posts
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    I am working on putting up a webpage detailing the travesty that is the PAL Virtual Console service, with the horrors that is 50 Hz borders and slowdown.

    And if you don't believe it is bad, take a look at Sonic: NTSC/PAL difference video on YouTube

    What I would like to have there is a list of which virtual console titles are affected and which are not.

    As far as I know all the SNES/NES/Megadrive-titles are running at 50Hz, but some are optimized, and some aren't. Legend of Zelda for example looks terrible with HUGE borders.

    Turbografx games seem to all be in 60 Hz, which is great, but those aren't really the games I was interested in buying.

    Great if some of you want to contribute by helping me find out which games are messed up. (Buying all the titles isnt really an option for me)

    I've emailed Nintendo of Europe about this of course, it was 11 days ago now and still no response, I also emailed Nintendo of America just to complain about how untalented their European branch is and they responded that all the Nintendo subsidiaries are run independently and they wished me luck in my efforts to get something out of NoE, so I guess I'll keep bugging them, please everyone do so at NintendoServiceCenter@codestorm.co.uk

    Thanks,
    Kjetil Svenheim

    Edited by ksvenheim at 17:38:57 19-12-2006

    Edited by ksvenheim at 17:39:16 19-12-2006
  • thefilthandthefury 19 Dec 2006 17:26:07 25,016 posts
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    They're exactly the same as the games 99% of us have grew up with. Just let it go people! I haven't noticed anything different with Sonic than the Sonic I had as a child.

    EDIT: Not that the 60hz NTSC versions aren't better or anything. They are.

    Edited by thefilthandthefury at 17:27:33 19-12-2006
  • Deleted user 19 December 2006 17:27:02
    /waves hello at 15 years ago
  • twinbee 19 Dec 2006 17:31:16 442 posts
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    We've have this rant before. I agree with you, although you seem to be 200 times angrier than I.

    Still, today I bought a points card for 14.

    \hangs head in shame
  • ksvenheim 19 Dec 2006 17:34:35 32 posts
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    I am probably 100 times angrier than you are, my main reason for getting the Wii was the Virtual Console, but I am not wasting any more money on it if it doesn't get sorted, I'll be forced to import a US console when availability improves.

    I wish more people who cared about the issue would voice their opinions, because I doubt NoE will do anything about it unless they get a lot of complains, it seems to be rooted in their tradition to give europeans inferior products.

    Anyway, I am not looking for a rant, I I am looking for accurate accounts of which games have problems.

    Edited by ksvenheim at 17:35:34 19-12-2006
  • TehPieBoy 19 Dec 2006 17:34:39 257 posts
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    I don't see much difference in the gameplay, just the music and sounds.
  • ecureuil 19 Dec 2006 17:35:01 76,801 posts
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    The ignorance line is complete crap. We pay higher prices and get worse games, I don't know how that doesn't bother people. "Oh but I don't know any better because I've never played the NTSC versions" is a cop out, and it's because of people with that philosophy that we've been anally raped on PAL conversions for years, and continue to be with VC games.
  • Rush2112 19 Dec 2006 17:40:31 105 posts
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    I really couldn't give a monkey's if it runs at 50hz or 60hz. I used to have a Japanese N64, but I've been happily playing Mario 64 without really noticing a difference. Granted, it's been years since I played it. Same goes for Ecco, Donkey Kong Country and F-Zero. All great fun.

    And ksvenheim, if your main reason for purchasing a Wii was the virtual console, wouldn't it have been cheaper and less stressful just to grab a few emulators and download the games?

    Edited by Rush2112 at 17:43:37 19-12-2006
  • morriss 19 Dec 2006 17:43:02 70,976 posts
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    I care because Mapster cares.
  • thefilthandthefury 19 Dec 2006 17:44:39 25,016 posts
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    Rush2112 wrote:
    And ksvenheim, if your main reason for purchasing a Wii was the virtual console, wouldn't it have been cheaper and less stressful just to grab a few emulators and download the games?

    Or even go to a retro games shop/ebay and pick up the originals.
  • ksvenheim 19 Dec 2006 17:48:16 32 posts
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    Rush2112 wrote:
    And ksvenheim, if your main reason for purchasing a Wii was the virtual console, wouldn't it have been cheaper and less stressful just to grab a few emulators and download the games?

    Unfortunately, yes, it should be one of the main reasons why NoE should fix this, but I actually want to buy and own my old favorites, I'm not condoning software piracy.

    Still, it's quite sad that you can get a better experience from a homebrewn emulator than from Nintendo's official one.
  • thefilthandthefury 19 Dec 2006 17:49:46 25,016 posts
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    ksvenheim wrote:
    but I actually want to buy and own my old favorites

    But these games are the old versions you used to play, if you're European.
  • Donny 19 Dec 2006 17:51:38 1,491 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    I care because Mapster cares.


    I don't care because I have a mind of my own you Mapster fanboy. :)
  • ksvenheim 19 Dec 2006 17:52:52 32 posts
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    thefilthandthefury wrote:
    But these games are the old versions you used to play, if you're European.

    The fact that we were shafted in the past is perhaps the worst reason for why we should accept it now. It's not like they can't do it, the Zelda collector's disc was 60Hz on Gamecube (in fact, 60Hz only, just like Metroid Prime 2, and I don't know of any PAL gamers complaining about that) and the Sonic Mega Colection on Gamecube also supported 60Hz mode.

    It's obviously an oversight and/or laziness and/or ignorance on Nintendo's part.

    Edited by ksvenheim at 17:53:49 19-12-2006
  • Kami 19 Dec 2006 17:53:33 2,435 posts
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    Why can't they just do what they used to do with the back-compat stuff? Ya know, special borders that can go around the titles, flashy graphics things with the game scaled nicely in the middle?

    I don't want shoddy conversions.

    Master of Tekisuto No Kabe. *bows*
    And you're reading this why?!

  • TriodeBliss 19 Dec 2006 17:54:47 724 posts
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    Surely nobody cares about the NES titles though? Nintendo would have to pay me to download them from the VC.
  • Donny 19 Dec 2006 17:55:15 1,491 posts
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    Mapster wrote:
    Donny wrote:
    morriss wrote:
    I care because Mapster cares.


    I don't care because I have a mind of my own you Mapster fanboy. :)

    Everytime you don't care about something, a small kitten dies.

    I don't care if a small kitten dies every time I don't care. :)
  • [+..] 19 Dec 2006 18:10:07 341 posts
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    Donny wrote:
    Mapster wrote:
    Donny wrote:
    morriss wrote:
    I care because Mapster cares.


    I don't care because I have a mind of my own you Mapster fanboy. :)

    Everytime you don't care about something, a small kitten dies.

    I don't care if a small kitten dies every time I don't care. :)

    ...another dead kitten...
  • eviltwin 19 Dec 2006 18:34:49 408 posts
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    So other than the borders there's no difference. The screen goes black when sonic shoots of the top of screen having exited the tunnel. I suggest you have a look at the times on screen just before this happens. I think you'll find it's at the 30 second mark in both videos.
    It's a bit sad that I bothered to look at that really. It's made this argument pointless and saved some kittens along the way, and everybody knows kittens smell and deserve to die.
  • ecureuil 19 Dec 2006 18:39:04 76,801 posts
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    eviltwin - the clock runs slower on the PAL version. Even though they both stop at 30 seconds, the NTSC section is 44 seconds long, and the PAL section is 54 seconds long.

    It's a huge difference. After 30 seconds of play it's already 10 seconds off. That's pretty bad IMO.
  • GiarcYekrub 19 Dec 2006 18:40:08 3,752 posts
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    Has any1 got a US Wii and tryed the downloading things from the US VC?
  • GiarcYekrub 19 Dec 2006 18:40:28 3,752 posts
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    Post deleted at 18:40:42 19-12-2006
  • Whizzo 19 Dec 2006 18:42:11 43,121 posts
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    eviltwin wrote:I think you'll find it's at the 30 second mark in both videos.
    The clock is lying in the PAL version.

    edit: bugger I'm too slow! A bit like the PAL version...

    The speed is so noticeably different it's astonishing. I've only ever played the PAL version, many years ago on a friend's MegaDrive and even my foggy memory knows it was never like the NTSC version on it.

    Edited by Whizzo at 18:43:44 19-12-2006

    This space left intentionally blank.

  • Retroid Moderator 19 Dec 2006 18:44:48 44,725 posts
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    Can't anyone post the link to that MeanMachines 'review' site I nicked from someone in the comments section which says which games run at 60hz and which don't?

    Hint: PC Engine games are 60hz! \o/
  • Whizzo 19 Dec 2006 18:45:40 43,121 posts
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    The PC Engine never got a PAL release though did it? So 50Hz versions shouldn't exist.

    This space left intentionally blank.

  • ekko 19 Dec 2006 19:12:23 904 posts
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    Whizzo wrote:
    The PC Engine never got a PAL release though did it? So 50Hz versions shouldn't exist.

    I don't know about this, but surely if they can run the PC Engine games at proper speed why can't they do this with the other ones? It doesn't make sense to me.

    Also, are they then converting certain games twice? Once for NTSC and one for PAL? Are they then doubling the testing, QA, etc.?

    know you can just get a decent emulator, but it's the principle.
  • ksvenheim 19 Dec 2006 19:29:43 32 posts
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    True, the Turbografx/PC Engine games are safe buys and are emulated perfectly. Everything else is a gamble.
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