The 'Official' UFC appreciation thread Page 117

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  • The-Bodybuilder 24 Aug 2012 07:39:28 14,202 posts
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    craigy wrote:
    What does all of this mean for Hendo? Past forty, torn knee -- is he done?
    IMO, he should've been.
    I don't agree with fighters continuing to fight whilst using PEDS, regardless if he "needs" it or not (that's age. We can't all start getting prescription for PEDs as soon as as age hit sus).
  • craigy Staff 24 Aug 2012 09:37:31 7,658 posts
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    Yep, I agree. I'd find it hard to have the motivation to rehab a knee at his age, especially if it means being out for a year like GSP/Cruz.

    There was an interesting piece about TRT in Men's Health this month -- the craze is spreading to city traders in London who've taken to using it to give them an edge over their peers. Crazy stuff, cos once you're on it, you generally speaking can't come off it.
  • The-Bodybuilder 24 Aug 2012 10:04:48 14,202 posts
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    Madness.
  • The-Bodybuilder 24 Aug 2012 13:32:32 14,202 posts
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    It's now Jones Vs Belfort.

    The original Young Phenom against the current Phenom.
  • El_MUERkO 24 Aug 2012 21:27:27 17,033 posts
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    @The-Bodybuilder I really want Belfort to destroy him in 30 seconds then walk away like Jones did to Machida.
  • El_MUERkO 24 Aug 2012 21:30:19 17,033 posts
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    Jones is 25 years old, and hasn't even entered his athletic prime. If all goes according to plan, he should be fighting in the UFC for another ten years, making Anderson Silva money the entire time. What's essential to that plan, however, is building and maintaining a solid relationship with the UFC and the consumers. Let me be absolutely clear about this at the outset: Jon Jones is absolutely nothing without the UFC. Ok, maybe not nothing - he'd still be the best light heavyweight, and possibly future heavyweight, on the planet. His future earning potential without the UFC, however, is drastically lessened: could he go to One FC and fight in Asia? Canada and the MFC? Jungle Fight? BAMMA? Bellator? Riiiiiiiight. You don't make Anderson Silva money fighting Babalu in Singapore or Attila Vegh at the Foxwoods Casino. You make better than Anderson Silva money fighting Junior Dos Santos at Cowboys Stadium on New Year's Eve in 2013.

    Jones' future - his brand, if you want to be all business-y about it - hinges on the future success of the UFC, and that's where Jones screwed up. It's not his responsibility to book fight cards or worry about the Fox deal, but it is his responsibility to surround himself with people who are capable of thinking about those things and helping him make important decisions; I leave it to the august minds of the BE community to decide whether Kawa and Jones' other management fit that description.

    By now, it should be clear that watered-down cards are a product of the UFC's rapid expansion, itself the result of the Fox deal. There simply isn't enough name value out there to both put on stacked cards and meet their obligations to Fox and PPV: this would still be true, though less so, if injuries hadn't been such a problem and Overeem/Diaz weren't suspended for the better part of the year. In the best-case scenario, Cruz headlines a PPV or two (and then gets blasted for not drawing), GSP would fight twice, and Diaz unsurprisingly (to everyone other than 209 fans) does worse numbers than expected. In hindsight, we should have expected this, but the afterglow of the Fox deal - "look, guys, it's a real sport!" - blinded us to the harsh realities of a small company having to adjust to operating in something resembling the actual spotlight that major sports face.

    The UFC was depending on Jones to carry them through this tough period of adjustment. That's not a one-way street: by acting as the temporary face of MMA, massive financial and exposure benefits accrue to Jones, the kind of name value on which stars in combat sports depend. That's the kind of name value that will carry him through the next decade of his career, and it creates the kind of goodwill with his employer that would carry him through the totally hypothetical situation in which he runs a Bentley into a telephone pole while driving with two women who aren't his fiancee, or a situation in which he's out for more than a year with an injury, and needs a tune-up fight rather than facing a hungry young contender immediately. I could continue, but there are innumerable scenarios in which a solid relationship with White and the Fertittas could help Jones in the future.

    More important, however, is the fact that the UFC isn't some unstoppable ATM that belches out stacks of hundred-dollar bills for Jon Jones' use. Canceling a PPV has very real consequences: first, it further strains the UFC's relationship with its fans, who have shelled out money for sub-par PPVs all year, and who knows what the impact will be with those who were unfortunate enough to have purchased flights and booked hotel rooms in Vegas for Labor Day weekend. Second, it costs the UFC money it can ill afford to lose: half a million in fighter pay alone for this lost card, according to some estimates, along with (I'd imagine) a substantial cancellation fee to be paid to the Mandalay Event Center, and that's without even mentioning the lost revenues. Finally, it damages the UFC's relationship with event venues: will the Mandalay really be eager to do business with the UFC again, knowing that the last canceled event cost them a pretty penny in concessions, booked rooms, and gambling revenues? I doubt it. It isn't inevitable that the UFC continues to succeed, and Jones needs the UFC as much as it needs him.

    This is one event, and it's not the end of the world. With that said, the UFC's future success, and that of Jon Jones, is a great deal more tenuous than it appears at first glance. It is, in fact, in Jones' best "business" interest to take one for the team by fighting a likely 6:1 or 7:1 underdog without a full camp who also happens to be moving up a weight class. He could be the superstar who carried the UFC on his back while it was making its way through a tough adjustment period. He could be Dana White's golden boy, a company man to be supported through thick and thin. Instead, he's the guy Chael Sonnen mocked on SportsCenter because his management was dumb enough to turn down an interview.
    Pretty much exactly what I was thinking, if it wasnt for the fact Dana needs more star power in the UFC Jones would be fucked the second he loses a fight.
  • thenastypasty 25 Aug 2012 02:13:35 5,182 posts
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    Out of curiosity, Who do you see him losing too?
  • El_MUERkO 25 Aug 2012 02:29:28 17,033 posts
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    I dont know, it's not my point, but Belfort has the speed to cause an upset, Machida rocked Jones and showed promise in there first fight, no-one is unbeatable.

    If Jones decides to avoid a rematch with Machida or Rua and goes to Heavyweight I could see White throwing him to the dogs, no easy fight, straight in their with Cain or Dos Santos or Overeem whose bigger frames and longer reach would be less disadvantaged to Jones.
  • thenastypasty 25 Aug 2012 02:40:48 5,182 posts
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    There is no chance that Jones will move to HW. Although he is 6'3" he cuts the weight without to much trouble, moving up a weight and getting done by better wrestlers I don't think Dana will let it happen.
  • El_MUERkO 25 Aug 2012 02:58:11 17,033 posts
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    Jones has said several times recently that he wants to. Dana has said he was agreeable to it. Heavyweight fights have always been the focus of casual fight fans in the US and an American Heavyweight Champion sells PPV's.

    Dana was grooming Jones to be the next face of the company, the next Brock Lesnar pushing PPV buys over 1,000,000; now he hates the guy, we'll see exactly how much in the next six months.
  • El_MUERkO 25 Aug 2012 03:01:58 17,033 posts
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    Off, Attila Vegh wins the Bellator LHW tournament with a 25 second first round knockout :)
  • craigy Staff 25 Aug 2012 11:33:39 7,658 posts
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    I'd be really interested in seeing Jones vs Dos Santos, or Jones vs Overeem. I don't think he'd do well in either of those matchups.

    After wondering about stylistic matchups that would stop jones, I think you'd be looking for someone who:

    - Matches his stature physically to cancel out his reach advantage
    - Has strong boxing skills, and isn't afraid to clinch, get inside or sit in the pocket
    - Can quickly get back to their feet should he try to takedown and smother

    Overeem and Dos Santos both fit the bill, but that's a while off. The only people at LHW that could maybe, maybe do it are Phil Davis (but his standup is awful) or Glover Teixeira. We'll see how he gets on against Rampage! If he storms Rampage I could see him getting a shot.
  • FalseAlibi 28 Aug 2012 12:38:51 89 posts
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    hmmm...

    so many issues swirling around over this one.

    I think Jones should've taken the fight and should not have had too tough a time finishing Sonnen, but then he's within his rights to not take a last minute change of opponent when his title's on the line. Throw in that supposedly Hendo knew about his knee a fortnight or so earlier and IIRC trains at Team Quest with Sonnen, who could therefore have started prep and a gameplan for Jones well before the initial fight was cancelled and I can see how a schemer like Jackson would do everything he could not to take the fight.

    And Sonnen in no way deserves the shot, even if he's playing company man for once by offering.

    Slightly tin-foil paranoid I'll grant, but it would only be side issue and dissapointment if Dana hadn't used it as an excuse for scrapping the whole card, which was due to it being overly watered down.

    Also if I'm to believe couchpotato, then Silver did offer to step up and fight at LHW, just as long as it wasn't against Jones.
  • Deleted user 13 September 2012 12:44:51
    Anderson Silva vs Stephen Bonnar at UFC 153..............wtf?
  • Blakester 13 Sep 2012 12:48:06 3,618 posts
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    TearYouAsunder wrote:
    Anderson Silva vs Stephen Bonnar at UFC 153..............wtf?
    That's one for the ages....

    When you can't see the angles on the wall you're in trouble.

  • Deleted user 13 September 2012 12:52:20
    Blakester wrote:
    TearYouAsunder wrote:
    Anderson Silva vs Stephen Bonnar at UFC 153..............wtf?
    That's one for the ages....
    Its so depressing, that card looked to be one of the best of the year until guys started dropping out. I really wanted to see Teixeira/Rampage :(

    edit: though to be fair, even though he doesnt have the name value, Maldonado has some pretty tasty standup. Stylistically its a sound replacement.

    Edited by TearYouAsunder at 12:55:58 13-09-2012
  • craigy Staff 13 Sep 2012 16:25:00 7,658 posts
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    Man Maldonado's last fight was great -- he lost via decision but spent the entire fight cliching and ripping to the body. How the guy he fought was still standing is anyone's guess.

    So when the spider wins at LHW, will he stay there? I'd much rather see a Jones/Silva superfight than a GPS/Silva superfight.
  • Blakester 14 Sep 2012 11:31:35 3,618 posts
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    craigy wrote:
    Man Maldonado's last fight was great -- he lost via decision but spent the entire fight cliching and ripping to the body. How the guy he fought was still standing is anyone's guess.

    So when the spider wins at LHW, will he stay there? I'd much rather see a Jones/Silva superfight than a GPS/Silva superfight.
    I think a lot might depend on what type of shape GSP is in when he returns. If he wins big I expect the Silva fight to be made asap.

    However, bearing in mind the injury he's had, and the lack of active competition, he could well lose the belt to Condit. At that point I would expect him to seek out another title shot rather than focus on a superfight.

    When you can't see the angles on the wall you're in trouble.

  • craigy Staff 14 Sep 2012 11:46:38 7,658 posts
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    Yep, makes sense. If GSP loses to Condit the superfight to make is Silva/Jones.

    Man, I'm itching to see GSP fight again. His jab clinic against Koscheck is one of my favourite fights of all time.
  • Deleted user 21 September 2012 12:02:53
    So any chance of Belfort shocking the world this weekend?

    Also, anyone else think that beard makes Jon Jones look like an Islamic fundamentalist?

    Edited by TearYouAsunder at 12:03:08 21-09-2012
  • craigy Staff 21 Sep 2012 13:22:01 7,658 posts
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    I know it's not a perfectly scientific way of predicting fights, but Jon Jones looked pretty spooked at the press-conference face-off. I'll be rooting for Belfort.
  • SuperCoolEskimo 23 Sep 2012 01:25:05 9,829 posts
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    craigy wrote:
    Yep, makes sense. If GSP loses to Condit the superfight to make is Silva/Jones.

    Man, I'm itching to see GSP fight again. His jab clinic against Koscheck is one of my favourite fights of all time.
    Same here, was the first UFC PPV I watched properly since getting into it. The atmosphere in Montreal that night was just nuts.

    Anyone up for 152? Some good prelim fights so far, pretty neat that ESPN show them live too.
  • SuperCoolEskimo 23 Sep 2012 05:50:41 9,829 posts
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    WOW - that first round had me out of my seat! Great fight Vitor.
  • El_MUERkO 23 Sep 2012 07:45:11 17,033 posts
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    Couldn't watch the fights as I had to get up early. Reading Belfort broke his hand in training. So a middleweight with a broken hand nearly beat a light heavyweight.
  • craigy Staff 23 Sep 2012 16:05:40 7,658 posts
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    Vitor so close to submission in the first round!

    So, what we know of Jones:
    - If you pull guard on him he'll punish you with his elbows
    - If you stand and wait on the outside he'll punish you with his weirdo legs kicks
    - If you try and get inside or clinch with him he'll take you down and submit you

    I did laugh when Vitor tried to kick him at the start of the first round. Jones shouldn't fuck around like that.

    Who next for Jones? The more I consider it, the more I think Silva will bypass the GSP superfight completely and go for the megafight with Jon Jones. Fighting Bonnar at LHW is a smart way to test the water: it's not a title fight, and if he makes quick work of Bonnar then it's an easy next fight to make for both Jones and Silva, as there's nothing left for either of them in their respective weight classes.

    Other thoughts on 152:
    - Skipped the flyweight fight. Was it any good? I see it went the full five.
    - Magalhaes has a wicked armbar. Absolutely beautiful.
    - Roger Hollett looked so stiff. What's the point in being twice the width of a normal guy if you can't defend a takedown?
    - TJ Grant looked great. I love watching guys who have a good plumb clinch. Knee! Knee!
    - Bisping, as expected, ground out a UD. It would be a shame if it happens, but I can see him being dumped into yet another eliminator against Weidman. Give the guy a shot already!
    - Jimy Hettes must have a sore head this morning.
    - Expecting Walel Watson to get released, as he's now lost his last three in a row.
    - Brenneman could be next for the chop, as he's dropped two straight, and lost three in his last four.
  • SuperCoolEskimo 24 Sep 2012 01:15:41 9,829 posts
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    The flyweight fight was an engrossing fight, I enjoyed it although the moronic crowd booed it at certain times.
  • Blakester 24 Sep 2012 10:24:51 3,618 posts
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    152 was actually a pretty good card, so colour me surprised.

    Bisping is something of a survivor when it comes to the UFC, but I don't ever see him as anything more than a gatekeeper. I think he summed it up perfectly himself when he said he doesn't have much talent but he has great cardio. Basically if you're going to be the champ you have to overcome Bisping-type fighters by utilizing your superior skill-set against them. Stann is in the same mould so there was little surprise they went the distance with each other. Frankly, both get destroyed in one or two rounds by Anderson.

    The co-main event was entertaining but just lacked the finish. Might Mouse has unbelievably footwork and didn't even look like he'd been in a fight at the end. Already looking forward to see him match up against Dodson.

    As for the main event, it was fascinating and bizarre in equal measure. That armbar was fucking brutal and I fully expected the break to occur when Jones acted like an idiot and didn't tap. Still can't understand why Vitor loosened the grip. Something tells me he'll regret that for a long time.

    What was up with Vitor though? I refuse to believe he fought with a broken hand, so why was he so eager to pull guard? Seemed like a dumb strategy to pin all your hopes of catching Jones in a sub when the guy has the most devastating elbows in MMA. Possibly time for Jones to move up, even if he says he has unfinished business with Henderson. I'd put him in with someone like Frank Mir who will test his ground game without him having to worry about crazy knockout power.

    When you can't see the angles on the wall you're in trouble.

  • Deleted user 24 September 2012 13:15:46
    Man, have to give it to Jon Jones, certainly no flake, lesser men would of tapped from that. Huge props.

    Speaking of flakes, Charles Oliveira should stick to winning BJJ tournaments, the guy has no fucking reslove when he gets hit.
  • The-Bodybuilder 25 Sep 2012 07:31:33 14,202 posts
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    El_MUERkO wrote:
    Couldn't watch the fights as I had to get up early. Reading Belfort broke his hand in training. So a middleweight with a broken hand nearly beat a light heavyweight.
    I'm sorry, but this is such bollocks.
    1. The old "broke his x" excuse is always in fullforce after a fight these days. It's a joke.
    2. Middleweight? You mean the same Belfort that competed as a heavyweight? If anything, THE heavyweight champ. Ofcourse, let's overlook the use of special sauce during those times.

    Seriously, the whole Anti-Jones hype needs to just chill. People seem to be acting more like heat magazine readers these days. What happened to judging fighters and supporting fighters based on....you know? Fighting ability.

    For months, all I heard from people is "Jones can't deal with an elusive fighter", then he ragdolled Machida. Soon after, it was he can't take a shot, suspect chin. Then he took hits from Evans and Rampage, and remained standing to deal with them.
    Then it was "Jones has no heart. It's easy for him to beat up on smaller folks, but let's see his heart when he's up against adversity". He escapes a brutal armbar and goes on to win (via sub, against a blackbelt BJJ), yet gets no prop for that too. It's such a lose-lose situation for him, almost like fighting a woman; no matter what, you're a c*nt.

    Leave your hate at the door and just give the guy the props he deserves for crying out loud.
    /rant over.

    PS: As for the whole "he should be a heavyweight", NO, he shouldn't. He's a cruiserweight; too big for LHW, too small for heavyweight. I find it odd people claim all his advantage is due to size, but if he were to lose against a large HW, no one will claim he lost because of size too.
    It's Dana's fault for not making a criuserweight division, something inbetween too-small LHWs, and the 265lbs monsters of the HW.

    Edited by The-Bodybuilder at 07:32:20 25-09-2012
  • craigy Staff 25 Sep 2012 11:05:22 7,658 posts
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    Fair points -- the only thing I'd say hasn't been fully debunked is his weak chin. I don't remember Rampage connecting with one good, grounded strike when they fought. He was mostly swinging wild haymakers and hooks at thin air. Same to a lesser extent with Evans. Did he really land any clean shots to Jones when they fought?
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