THe interesting question is whether they would have banned it if it hasn't been gay. I do wonder if there is another image like that somewhere on ComiXnolgy. I find it hard to believe there isn't, although I can't think of one. The only other comic i can think of which really showed graphic sexual imagery was Lost Girls, and I doubt that's on ComiXology. |
As I say there, Brown Bunny is on itunes and that has a full-on 100% real un-simulated blowjob in it. So a precedent has absolutely been set.
The **OFFICIAL** Comics thread. • Page 61
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khaz wrote:I thought it was interesting insomuch as there was a time when comics were finding their place alongside what it publicly considered as "serious" or even "respectable" literature, and then seemed to get cold feet and revert back to old, tried-and-tested trite tropes in order to satiate sales.
Again, like Nick i read the article and I can't take it seriously at all.
Comics are what they are. When people weren't fighting for comics to be taken seriously as an art form, millions of people were reading it. Now there's a few hundred thousand in the west.
Japan and some other Asian countries still have a very healthy readership but only because they accept comics for what they are, comics. If a work of art comes out of it, great. If it doesn't, it really doesn't matter.
There's no respect to be won or lost. I don't see why we should want a fucking justification or recognition for something that has validity and meaning in our lives. I couldn't give two shits beyond that.
tl;dr do you like comics? Yes? Awesome. No? That's fine too.
I can't stand operas and can't see it as art whatsoever but that won't stop others seeing it as an art form. So why should i care? The best works of art in my opinion are made when you don't give two shits about your audience but focus the entirety of your being on the work. It'll find an audience always. If its lucky enough to find a public recognition, even better.
A few comics have managed this so I don't know who these morons are who keep asking for comics to be accepted as an art form.
I also think he's talking (I might be wrong) from the perspective of a writer/creator, is he not? Rather than just a reader.
I also think it's important to discuss perception and how things are received and viewed by the general public, and how certain people who moan about not being taken seriously dress up in cheap spandex Spider-Man outfits thus perpetuating the very myth they're trying to dispel. As whether you care or not, there are people who want their passion to be taken seriously by society at large. And regardless of whether you find it folly, I think it's interesting to discuss why, as Nick puts it, most comics are stupid, when as the article states, they simply don't have to be. The industry has been shown the light, but for some reason has moved away from it.
Anyway, you don't agree, Nick doesn't; all good. Just thought I'd explain why I found it interesting to read and re-post.
...and Apple...oh Apple. /sigh
In fairness, the shift in quality is something that doesnt get a lot of regard, with the benchmark for your average superhero stuff having been raised.
I cant read 90's stuff anymore, its just terrible. Even the most generic shit is still better than most of the crap that came out over a near ten year period.
The one that makes me angry is The Secret Defenders. A team of third tier heroes and wolverine face off against a team of shitty, invented for the series villians to find out why old people are suddenly getting young.
It was the comic that made me think 'fuck this' and I virtually stopped buying comics overnight.
morriss wrote:Right here. The industry itself has to blame for this. Why did reader leave the industry in droves during the 90s? They took themselves so seriously it resulted in the most awful shit we've all read. They couldn't see beyond their own pens, let alone see how they were alienating their audience.
And regardless of whether you find it folly, I think it's interesting to discuss why, as Nick puts it, most comics are stupid, when as the article states, they simply don't have to be. The industry has been shown the light, but for some reason has moved away from it.
Comics, like every other piece of pop culture grows if you maintain a certain level of sobriety and understand that some parts of the public will think you're beyond stupid and others will think you're art. Trick is to find that sensible middle ground and let word of mouth take its course and build from there.
Comics should have been alongside gaming, animation, anime/manga and TV as one of the pop culture pillars of the internet but it pales in significance. The bigger publishing houses would kill to get the readership some of the web comics get. Its only in the last few years that comics and graphic novels are building a fan base again and i'm genuinely seeing a growth in popularity.
Here's hoping they don't shoot themselves in the foot again. :/
I can fully understand why some people would like their hobby/passion to be taken seriously. I'm not one of them though but before comic book fans start asking this, let the industry it self understand what its outputting first. Because frankly, I think they still don't get it. I mean, most of the new 52. Blurgh.
Edited by khaz at 11:49:36 10-04-2013
The crash wasnt really a result of comics taking themselves too seriously, it was a result of gouging the customer and a total plummet in quality.
The dark age was a trend and a bad one, but it was accompanied by some of the worst writing and art in the history of comics and a ceaseless expansion of lines to the point where the reader just gave up.
A lot of comics now are as dark if not darker than the worst of the early 80s, they are just better written and drawn by people who have a modicum of talent.
The big issue that comics have (and possibly will always have) as a medium, is that it is utterly dominated and virtually defined by one genre - superheroes. No other medium has this, and certainly isn't so massively swayed towards what is actually a very niche genre in truth.
I don't see it as a problem personally. It is what it is and I'm not one of these people who gives a shit that comics are a medium that is widely misunderstood and under-appreciated. In fact I despise most attempts to legitimise comics, especially painful terms like "graphic novel" that have been adopted to this end.
However, if comics are ever to be truly taken seriously, that's the issue that needs to be addressed.
Hmm, valid point. But I think what's even more important than addressing the domination of superheroes is that comic book writers and artists and fans (especially) need to remove the idea of being taken seriously completely.
That is something that will happen in its own time. Gaming is suffering from this syndrome right now.
JUST LET IT GO GODAMNIT!
Also nick, the dark age. I lolled solid for a minute.
Anyone else read that issue of saga yet? The funny thing is thats not even the worst picture. The one on the following page is even more explicit.
I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but Saga #12 is back on Comixology. According to Brian K Vaughan, it wasn't Apple that banned it but Comixology who did because they misinterpreted Apple's rules on content.
Oh, huzzah. Heh, poor old Apple, they took a lot of shit for that.
Is it always that leftfield? I've never heard of probably about 80% of them.
20th Century Boys has a nomination! FUCK YES! Best sci-fi, thriller, suspense, conspiracy thing i've EVER read!
DC has a grand total of 3 nominations. Good job on that 52 stuff DC...
Hawkeye is that good, it has 8 nominations? Wait, almost all of Marvel's nominations are from Hawkeye? WTF? /buys instantly
Apart from Saga, no clue about the rest. The writer even states that the judges went super indie this year in particular. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was a backlash against the majority of superhero bullshit we get so often from the big guns.
But I think it has more to do with the judges panel being very left field also; more literary than comic book industry people.
Edited by khaz at 07:25:47 18-04-2013
I don't really care about the Eisner's, but any award system that wants to reward creativity will leave all superhero books off their nominees lists entirely.
Edited by senso-ji at 16:14:38 19-04-2013
Good to see Hawkeye get a nod, bro.
Also pleased to see Prophet in there too.
opalw00t 12,460 posts
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Yay Hawkeye and Saga!
I fucking love Saga.
Strange you pick Tec over Snyder's Batman run. The difference in quality is huge. IMO obv
Nice to see Image kicking the shit out of Marvel and DC. The latter in particular should be ashamed.
beastmaster 15,339 posts
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I've been downloading Fatale onto my iPad but not had a chance to read it yet.
Can anyone recommend the best Daredevil and Elektra graphic novels out there? Not together but seperate (but any with both in would be great as well). I seem to remember Frank Miller doing some that were very critically acclaimed when they first came out.
Singularity 2,490 posts
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Fatale is amazing.
As for DD, I'd go through Bendis' DD run, which is in DD Volume 2. Top stuff.
Daredevil: Born again is great.
spamdangled 29,651 posts
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SambaApe wrote:Completely agree! Just as good as Hawkeye, if not better.
I'd agree re: Bendis, but the current DD run is sublime also. One of Marvel's finest.
Spanky 14,814 posts
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Miller and Sienkiewicz Electra Assassin. Fucking amazo!
Anyone have any tips for getting comixology to unbreak? I've got about half way through a collection and it doesn't seem to want to load any more.
Detective Comics is fairly shit nowadays. To go from Snyder's truly excellent run at the end of DC into the wankity of the New 52, it's a shame really.
I haven't read Daredevil recently (ie the last five issues or so) but up until that I can say that it's uniformly amazing.
The best comics of the last year or so have been Waid's Daredevil, Snyder's Swamp Thing and Batman, and Remender's Uncanny X-Force.
Truly awesome stuff.
Tom_Servo 18,082 posts
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Is this Hawkeye thing worth picking up? I don't really read comics much (put off by the prices more than anything), but I saw it had been nominated for quite a few awards and the cover looks pretty cool.
Also, the recent Batman thing with the Joker wearing his own face as a mask. Is that out as a compilation or is it still single comics at the minute?
(And yes, I know next to nothing about comics)
Hawkeye is great. Its the story of what a not-very- super hero does on his days off.
mikeck 1,936 posts
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I was in Forbidden Planet on Friday and wanted to pick up some trades of Lucifer, Transmetropolitan and #17 of Walking Dead (still not read the infamous issue 100 yet), but they didn't have the issues I needed.
So I spent a long time browsing and decided to start a couple of new series, so I picked up the first trade of Image's Morning Glories, and the first two trades of Locke & Key.
Really glad I did, as they're both really good. Morning Glories raised the wife's eyebrows when I brought it home "was it the school uniforms that caught your eye", but besides the guilt-inducing cover art the story is strong, and I can see the characters developing nicely. Good art too, nice and clean.
Locke & Key is something I've been meaning to check out for a while and I can see why it's well rated, it's got some great elements, the Locke children are developing into well rounded characters (especially young Bode) and I love the aspect of the different keys. A good antagonist too, who is continually keeping me guessing.
I don't pop into FP very often (instead keeping up to date with ongoing series using Amazon), because I always come out with new trades, but it's always worth it.