The Israel/Palestine situation

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  • effinjamie 28 Jun 2006 12:43:51 882 posts
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    Three bridges linking the north and south of the strip and Gaza's main electricity transformer were bombed from the air

    Way to go, thats how to help the peace process and not encourage Terrorism, by bombing them into submission and denying them basic services such as power. What next?, attack there water supplys as well?!?!?!?!?

    PSN - effinjamie Xbox - effinjamie

  • Teeth 28 Jun 2006 12:47:43 7,987 posts
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    Not really a thing to make light of :(
  • Deleted user 28 June 2006 12:48:07
    Well, they can't make light without electricity.

    ..

    /coat
  • Teeth 28 Jun 2006 12:54:27 7,987 posts
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    /limps out of thread :)
  • Fatfish 28 Jun 2006 13:36:10 3,377 posts
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    EuroTV wrote:
    I think Israel is trying to exterminate the palestinians. Maybe not even consciously. As has been done time and time again, and don't kid yourself that because this is the age of enlightenment and democracy it can't happen.

    You don't say! Jeez, what would we do without your valued insight in to the modern world and it's machinations. Exactly how long did it take you to formulate that theory about the Israelis and the Palestinians? Some of us are still trying to figure out how it started

    /flips pages of the Old Testament

    Their forray in to the Gazza Strip with tanks et al was just a front. When have you ever seen sucha a tactical and assertive movement for the sake of one unknown soldier from any military/government? When we and most other countries go in to pull out one or two soldiers, it's done quickly, quietly and with small teams. Less hoo-ha the better. The excuse they've used for this is a front - they've been waiting for a reason, and now they've got it.

    I think it's commendable that a government should go in to get their men back (even more commendable if governments didn't got to war in the first place, but that's a different discussion). However, to use it as an excuse to blatantly move in on an already unstable situation is ludicrous and crass.
  • spindizzy 28 Jun 2006 13:38:04 6,433 posts
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    EuroTV wrote:
    Witchking wrote:
    Teeth wrote:
    Not really a thing to make light of :(

    They cant make light of anything now without electric... :)

    erm... anyway. Yes. I agree. I dont know what the hell Israel think they'll achieve from this, but I dont think that poor soldier will make it out alive.

    I think Israel is trying to exterminate the palestinians. Maybe not even consciously. As has been done time and time again, and don't kid yourself that because this is the age of enlightenment and democracy it can't happen.

    What, the Palestinians have been exterminated time and time again?

    Semantic nit-picking aside ... thanks for the piercing insight.
  • Darth_Flibble 28 Jun 2006 13:54:35 1,652 posts
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    EuroTV wrote:
    Well most of the people who I talk to in my life would deny this and find it shocking, I suppose we are all open minded and like minded-here...

    /shrugs

    Both sides of have done terrible things must some people who like to point out what israel has done
  • spindizzy 28 Jun 2006 13:55:07 6,433 posts
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    EuroTV wrote:
    Well most of the people who I talk to in my life would deny this and find it shocking, I suppose we are all open minded and like minded-here...

    /shrugs

    No, I just think it's obvious that SOME parts of the Israeli government would like to wipe out a people, of whom SOME have said that Israel must be wiped off the map! It would at a fell stroke make Israel far safer ... but cannot be done because even Israel's closest allies wouldn't stand for it.
  • Genji 28 Jun 2006 13:55:49 19,689 posts
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    LiquidSun wrote:
    So because of this more innocent Israeli's will die. Hamas will respond by being oh so brave and send a suicide bomber into a cafe and on and on it goes. :(
    It's the ciiiiircle of liiiiiiiife,
    And it mooooves us aaaaaall

    Sorry.
  • lucky_jim 28 Jun 2006 13:58:44 5,276 posts
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    Just to throw a different viewpoint into the mix, do any of the forum's Londoners remember the feeling after the 7/7 bombing? Or the much-more-jittery feeling after the failed 21/7 bombing attempt? I think we'd all be much less understanding if we were being subjected to that day in, day out for years, as Israel has been. They're encircled by people who want to destroy them, people who deliberately target innocent civilians, and their policy towards their neighbours reflects that.

    I'm not saying I agree with them, but it's important to look at every angle of any picture!
  • Spanky 28 Jun 2006 14:09:57 14,471 posts
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    LiquidSun wrote:
    So because of this more innocent Israeli's will die. Hamas will respond by being oh so brave and send a suicide bomber into a cafe and on and on it goes. :(
    Yeah because the palestinians have tanks, fighters, well equiped $$ bankrolled soldiers they can fight back with.

    I've got no sympathy for Israel, and it's got nowt to do with there religion, before anyone starts on that pish.

    I think you'll also find it'll be the palestinians that'll be doing the dying.

    Plubs

  • kalel 28 Jun 2006 14:13:39 86,787 posts
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    As I believe Uncle Lou once said, it will never fail to amaze me how people who clearly know absolutely nothing about something, can talk with such authority on a subject.
  • effinjamie 28 Jun 2006 14:16:59 882 posts
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    lucky_jim wrote:
    Just to throw a different viewpoint into the mix, do any of the forum's Londoners remember the feeling after the 7/7 bombing? Or the much-more-jittery feeling after the failed 21/7 bombing attempt? I think we'd all be much less understanding if we were being subjected to that day in, day out for years, as Israel has been. They're encircled by people who want to destroy them, people who deliberately target innocent civilians, and their policy towards their neighbours reflects that.

    I'm not saying I agree with them, but it's important to look at every angle of any picture!

    It's probably the only way they can fight back against a Heavily Militarized neighbour. Lets put it this way, AND BY NO MEANS AM I ENCOURAGING OR SUPPORTING TERRORISM, If I returned home to find a crater where my home and Family was, all because an Israeli Attack Helicopter or Tank had mistakenly believed Terrorists to be hiding there, You couldn't strap the explosives to me or put a Gun in my hand fast enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    PSN - effinjamie Xbox - effinjamie

  • Fatfish 28 Jun 2006 14:19:53 3,377 posts
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    I think we can all safely say that we agree on one thing - war is bad, hmm'kay? :)
  • Genji 28 Jun 2006 14:20:23 19,689 posts
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    I can say, with ABSOLUTE, INFALLIBLE AUTHORITY, that people will die because of this decision. And it will continue for the forseeable future, barring some miracle.
  • Fozzie_bear 28 Jun 2006 14:22:19 15,498 posts
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    effinjamie wrote:
    lucky_jim wrote:
    Just to throw a different viewpoint into the mix, do any of the forum's Londoners remember the feeling after the 7/7 bombing? Or the much-more-jittery feeling after the failed 21/7 bombing attempt? I think we'd all be much less understanding if we were being subjected to that day in, day out for years, as Israel has been. They're encircled by people who want to destroy them, people who deliberately target innocent civilians, and their policy towards their neighbours reflects that.

    I'm not saying I agree with them, but it's important to look at every angle of any picture!

    It's probably the only way they can fight back against a Heavily Militarized neighbour. Lets put it this way, AND BY NO MEANS AM I ENCOURAGING OR SUPPORTING TERRORISM, If I returned home to find a crater where my home and Family was, all because an Israeli Attack Helicopter or Tank had mistakenly believed Terrorists to be hiding there, You couldn't strap the explosives to me or put a Gun in my hand fast enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What about if you got home and found out that loved ones had been blown up in a cafe or on a bus? Would they be unable to put a gun in your hand fast enough then too? Not going to get very far, that attitude, is it?

    Support the Mowgli Dirty Protest!

  • Fatfish 28 Jun 2006 14:26:29 3,377 posts
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    Furbs wrote:
    Speak for yourself. Theres no World Cup matches today.

    /tunes to CNN and munches popcorn

    Trolling..........yet strangely amusing.

    Crass and shallow comment = humour and slight smirk......

    /head spins
    /sparks fly

    I think my 'moral responsibility' chip has just shorted out.....
  • Fatfish 28 Jun 2006 14:31:14 3,377 posts
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    @fozzie & effinjamie - the bible summed it up best:

    An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

    Problem is, mankind isn't happy with equal justice. Most people have a slightly jaded view and to them, it's not justice unless it exceeds the original crime or misgiving. For many, justice isn't about equaling the action of the crime, it's about bettering it.

    And so wars are born.....

    Here's a good example - in the middle east, the punishment for theft (no matter how small), is the removal of your hand(s). Fair? I think not.
  • drumbaby 28 Jun 2006 14:31:47 2,688 posts
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    Fatfish wrote:
    When have you ever seen sucha a tactical and assertive movement for the sake of one unknown soldier from any military/government?

    Yep, whatta mistaker to maker!
  • PES_Fanboy 28 Jun 2006 14:33:57 14,560 posts
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    lucky_jim wrote:
    Just to throw a different viewpoint into the mix, do any of the forum's Londoners remember the feeling after the 7/7 bombing? Or the much-more-jittery feeling after the failed 21/7 bombing attempt? I think we'd all be much less understanding if we were being subjected to that day in, day out for years, as Israel has been. They're encircled by people who want to destroy them, people who deliberately target innocent civilians, and their policy towards their neighbours reflects that.

    I'm not saying I agree with them, but it's important to look at every angle of any picture!

    I guess I might be slightly older than some here, but I remember commuting to London every day wondering about a terrorist attack (for years), way before 7/7.

    So it's not like London's reaction was as "WTF?" as America's was - while we didn't face it day to day at that point, there was history of terrorism in London before.
  • BillGaitas 28 Jun 2006 14:44:19 276 posts
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    Ive got a solution for the conflict.

    They should build a new country unifying both Israel and the Palestine. They could call it Super Happy Country and use a smiley as a flag.

    The problem is that both sides want to wipe out each other and no one would accept it
  • PES_Fanboy 28 Jun 2006 14:49:35 14,560 posts
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    To twist on your idea - if they renamed the Gaza Strip 'Gheyland' nobody would want to claim it / live there...instant DMZ!
  • Fatfish 28 Jun 2006 15:05:45 3,377 posts
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    PES_Fanboy wrote:
    To twist on your idea - if they renamed the Gaza Strip 'Gheyland' nobody would want to claim it / live there...instant DMZ!

    Well, covering it in landmines and having laser guided missiles and heavy artillery constantly trained on it hasn't stopped anyone yet - so I doubt the association with being gay would make much difference!
  • Deleted user 28 June 2006 15:37:59
    EuroTV wrote:
    Well most of the people who I talk to in my life would deny this and find it shocking,
    Very true. I couldn't believe some of the interpretations I heard (from some of my friends); really didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

    I suppose we are all open minded and like minded-here...

    /shrugs
    Eh? We are? Nice!

    Edit: Grr.

    Edited by ZeroToHero at 15:43:24 28-06-2006
  • Ginger 28 Jun 2006 15:39:33 6,829 posts
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    BillGaitas wrote:
    Ive got a solution for the conflict.
    Nuke em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure

    London open taekwondo champion

  • effinjamie 28 Jun 2006 15:51:05 882 posts
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    Fozzie_bear wrote:
    effinjamie wrote:
    lucky_jim wrote:
    Just to throw a different viewpoint into the mix, do any of the forum's Londoners remember the feeling after the 7/7 bombing? Or the much-more-jittery feeling after the failed 21/7 bombing attempt? I think we'd all be much less understanding if we were being subjected to that day in, day out for years, as Israel has been. They're encircled by people who want to destroy them, people who deliberately target innocent civilians, and their policy towards their neighbours reflects that.

    I'm not saying I agree with them, but it's important to look at every angle of any picture!

    It's probably the only way they can fight back against a Heavily Militarized neighbour. Lets put it this way, AND BY NO MEANS AM I ENCOURAGING OR SUPPORTING TERRORISM, If I returned home to find a crater where my home and Family was, all because an Israeli Attack Helicopter or Tank had mistakenly believed Terrorists to be hiding there, You couldn't strap the explosives to me or put a Gun in my hand fast enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What about if you got home and found out that loved ones had been blown up in a cafe or on a bus? Would they be unable to put a gun in your hand fast enough then too? Not going to get very far, that attitude, is it?

    That's exactly what I am saying. Blindly lashing out doesn't help anyone. It just compounds the problem, whilst bringing more people into the conflict with a desire for revenge.

    But using military might in populated areas is disgraceful and shows an equal disregard for Human Life as any Suicide Bomber.

    Just Imagine the reaction, if for anytime over the past 30 years, everytime the IRA set off a bomb or shot someone, we sent the bombers into populated areas of Southern Ireland or sent the Tanks rolling into Dublin to randomly demolish a few Housing estates!

    Edited by effinjamie at 15:56:25 28-06-2006

    PSN - effinjamie Xbox - effinjamie

  • MetalDog 28 Jun 2006 16:09:07 23,697 posts
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    Fatfish wrote:
    @ fozzie & effinjamie - the bible summed it up best:

    An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

    Problem is, mankind isn't happy with equal justice. Most people have a slightly jaded view and to them, it's not justice unless it exceeds the original crime or misgiving. For many, justice isn't about equaling the action of the crime, it's about bettering it.

    ...

    In the 'eye for an eye' biblical references, the law was referring to financial compensation not physical dismemberment. You need to understand more than the words on the page before you start plucking verses out and waving them around. =) There's a ton of contextual stuff that would have been much more obvious to any jew at the time, but is not obvious to us gentiles now.

    In the main, though, I agree with you. Even if we did have a dismemberment based justice system, people would want two eyes for an eye, because they are vengeful, not just.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • jellyhead 28 Jun 2006 16:15:37 24,350 posts
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    The Law and Justice are Cold, Revenge is Warm and visceral.
    That's why it's harder to accept the Law but it's not wrong, the Law should be Cold.
    If you see what i mean. :(

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