Straw Poll - should all religious related threads be banned? Page 4

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  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 17:02:59
    Oh and I've only ever mentioned religion in two threads out of hundreds I have posted in so that's unfair.
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 17:07:44
    Khanivor wrote:
    revan8 wrote:
    No you assuming things. I know history, just because I didn't write the entire history of the area doesn't mean I don't know it. Just posting about the modern era. I can't debate with you because you have no content, just sweeping rebuttals and insults.
    If you know the entire history of the era then you would know that Israel doesn't exist simply because the surviving Jews were given land. They had to fight to make their land into a state. WWII set the ball rolling but Zionist actions, in play long before Hitler came to power, led to the creation of the state of Israel.

    Going out on a limb here, but I'm thinking your knowledge is an awful lot less than you claim it to be. This is not a personal attack, this is a direct observation based on what you have contributed to this, (and other) threads.

    PS - a rebuttal is by definition content.
    I know I know.

    It's refreshing to see you know history but when I post sadly I can't do page long posts with in depth analysis. It has to be short and to the point, yes wars can have elements of religion to them but I was arguing that there is an unfair label from areas of society on religion that it is somehow to blame for human conflict.
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 17:10:14
    Maybe you shouldn't try to get involved with lengthy and complex debates when you're on your phone at work? Just a thought.
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 17:12:21
    You said ... This is not a personal attack, this is a direct observation based on what you have contributed to this, (and other) threads.....

    See that's just over the top, you could have ended that on 'contributed to this' but you added other threads. 95% of my posts are in the gaming forum and that is one topic where I am confident to say I know my stuff. You just making assumptions on me again drawn from a few sloppy quickly typed posts.
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 17:13:36
    meme wrote:
    Maybe you shouldn't try to get involved with lengthy and complex debates when you're on your phone at work? Just a thought.
    A fair comment but I love a debate and I dont use EG outside of work generally.
  • Khanivor 25 Aug 2012 17:14:16 40,401 posts
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    It so very often is though. That isn't to say humans would refrain from conflict in a world free from religion. Yet history - and the present - is littered with misery where the catalyst has been religion. Religion also makes excellent fuel for fires that would otherwise burn but not turn into all consuming conflagrations.

    Religion is not to blame for all wars. I don't think many people have ever claimed such. Yet is is also most certainly not free from taking a lot of the blame for many, many wars. Christ, even Budhists will kill over religious differences.
  • Khanivor 25 Aug 2012 17:15:29 40,401 posts
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    revan8 wrote:
    See that's just over the top, you could have ended that on 'contributed to this' but you added other threads. 95% of my posts are in the gaming forum and that is one topic where I am confident to say I know my stuff. You just making assumptions on me again drawn from a few sloppy quickly typed posts.
    Based on the paralympic thread, primarily, where you spouted a lot of ill-informed shite and then started banging on about whether Jesus was the son of God, for some reason that eluded the entire forum.
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 17:15:53
    Ok, but if you can't post properly and even miss other people's posts entirely there's no debate to be had. Have it with your colleagues if they're the ones who started it and you're confident in your knowledge.
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 17:21:12
    Khanivor wrote:
    It so very often is though. That isn't to say humans would refrain from conflict in a world free from religion. Yet history - and the present - is littered with misery where the catalyst has been religion. Religion also makes excellent fuel for fires that would otherwise burn but not turn into all consuming conflagrations.

    Religion is not to blame for all wars. I don't think many people have ever claimed such. Yet is is also most certainly not free from taking a lot of the blame for many, many wars. Christ, even Budhists will kill over religious differences.
    you don't feel it is not religion its self but rather people of power using it as a tool to control their people to their ideology? Look at Islam now, I have read the quran and it never told me the things they do in Saudi Arabia or Iran, the men in powerful positions have corrupted and twisted a beautiful thing into hatred and fear. Religion isn't the issue, people are. I hope the youth of Iran can one day win their freedom. I could go into the crusades to but oh my that would take ages.
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 17:23:21
    Khanivor wrote:
    revan8 wrote:
    See that's just over the top, you could have ended that on 'contributed to this' but you added other threads. 95% of my posts are in the gaming forum and that is one topic where I am confident to say I know my stuff. You just making assumptions on me again drawn from a few sloppy quickly typed posts.
    Based on the paralympic thread, primarily, where you spouted a lot of ill-informed shite and then started banging on about whether Jesus was the son of God, for some reason that eluded the entire forum.
    because Jesus was mentioned by two people in jest, I then replied in jest and it went from there. Clearly I'm not the only person who misses posts.

    Edited by revan8 at 17:23:57 25-08-2012
  • Khanivor 25 Aug 2012 17:31:36 40,401 posts
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    Religion can be seen as a set of rules based on a consensus interpretation agreed upon by a group of people. Arguing whether one interpretation is right or wrong is a) somewhat futile and b) the cause of many arguments which often degenerate into a shooting match.

    You can say people are the issue but that is a non sequiter. It's how those people behave that is the core issue, and their behaviour is directed by the interpretations that they have come to believe in. We can sit back and say that, for example, Christians in the US who believe in the prosperity gospel are fucking looney tunes, but because religion is a subjectively defined practiced you cannot prove them wrong, no more than they can prove themselves right, without finding oneself spinning around in circles.

    One of the great disservices that religion has done humanity, in my opinion, is the power it has to divorce people from responsibility for their actions. If those with religious beliefs would stop trying to deny religions culpabiulity in many of humanity's most heinous endeavours then perhaps folks might get around to accepting responsibility for keeping believers of their faith, irrespective of sect or denomination, in check. Realise that the damage being done comes not from condemning those who twist but from the ineffectiveness of mumbling disapproval, of silence.

    There is no objectively right or wrong interpretation of a religion but there are interpretations that allow us to not be such colossal dicks about those who believe differently, in so far as feeling the need to persecute and kill.
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 17:38:12
    Fook me, good post. See there is no chance I can reply to that on my phone. I will say though that I nearly completely agree with your whole post.
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 17:40:37
    One thing I will add about the last part is that in Islam they are putting into practice things that are simply not in the book. It has become a deeply cultural thing that uses religion as a cover for oppression.
  • kalel 25 Aug 2012 18:34:15 86,409 posts
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    You could say the same about any religion, including (or even especially) Christianity.
  • bladdard 25 Aug 2012 18:49:00 900 posts
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    Yes, religion perpetrates myth and cult as fact to indoctrinate the young, simple minded and vulnerable and has no place at all on a gaming forum.

    Edited by bladdard at 18:50:11 25-08-2012
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 19:14:23
    Um why? There are sections for everything. Not just gaming.
  • bladdard 25 Aug 2012 19:37:40 900 posts
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    @revan8

    I can't answer that without offending someone.
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 19:47:39
    I'm not particularly religious but it is an important subject that people on both sides have strong views.
    it has defined our past, affects the present and will shape the future. It has its place in any forum that has lots of sections like EG.
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 20:18:59
    You really are using a lot of posts to say fuck all.
  • malloc 25 Aug 2012 20:33:23 2,300 posts
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    I think people here have stronger disagreements about being Nintendo fanboys than we do on religion.

    Bit of a sad day ifwe can't even discuss things because the thread may get derailed. If it does then act as you would on any conversation and exit.
  • Deleted user 25 August 2012 21:00:48
    Blah blah blah little boy. I'm out.
  • AaronTurner 25 Aug 2012 21:52:05 7,594 posts
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    I refer you all to me post on the previous page. Someone please take offence.
  • elstoof 25 Aug 2012 22:14:53 6,631 posts
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    I'm sure we'd all give anything to be offended by you, but unfortunately you're just too painfully dull to care.
  • AaronTurner 25 Aug 2012 22:58:44 7,594 posts
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    Well now
  • kalel 26 Aug 2012 11:27:59 86,409 posts
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    EyeLand wrote:

    But then no civilization would have been possible in the first place without religion, as an intelligent society evidently can't cope and thrive without some mystical element that assauges the grief and misery of life. So the same power of compassion and humanity is the same power that has been used for gross inhumanity.
    People like an explanation, and in the absence of a better one religion does a job, but society has no basic need for mysticism as you suggest. Religion is prohibitive to society thriving in many ways I'm fact, because the certainty that comes with it halts progress and makes demons out of the likes of Galilleo and Darwin.
  • redcrayon 26 Aug 2012 11:41:59 4,544 posts
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    Compassion and humanity have never been the sole preserves of religion, they are human traits, just like the capacity for violence and bigotry, and we are a species capable of all of the above with or without religion.

    The argument that religion was necessary to provide a sort of 'social glue' for early societies is an interesting one, but it's not like it was a golden age, it would have been a cause of fear and pain as well as hope and faith from the moment the second religion came in contact with the first.

    /generic analogy full of historical inaccuracy starts
    When everyone in mudsling village worshipped the big rock, it was all good. They were all looking in the same direction, good luck to them. It enhanced a sense of 'place' in the world as the sabretooth tigers roamed around outside, eating them and shitting on the lawn. The problem was that when knowledge, food technology etc (these seeds are tasty, light and fill you up, we can hunt further now) allowed our mudsling village to meet the next one over, that unfortunately thought that the big rock was an imposter compared to their sun god, it all went a bit bloody as the thing that binds the village tightly together is strong but hard to disprove, and inflexible to new ideas and things that challenge it's superiority, which leads to hatred, ideas of difference that are hard to overcome or at least a deep mistrust.
    /generic analogy full of historical inaccuracy ends

    I think, for good or ill, religion has always had a habit of enhancing the best and the worst of the human condition, as the supernatural is something that can provide a deep, unshakable motivation to a whole society going beyond cynicism for the human failings of the earthly representatives, something it's leaders discovered very, very early on. Unfortunately that same deep, unshakable motivation has a habit of eyeing any kind of progression with mistrust, even as society changes around it.

    Edited by redcrayon at 11:46:19 26-08-2012
  • redcrayon 26 Aug 2012 11:43:28 4,544 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Religion is prohibitive to society thriving in many ways I'm fact, because the certainty that comes with it halts progress and makes demons out of the likes of Galilleo and Darwin.
    Yeah, I wonder how many inventions were held back. Perhaps my fictional 'running seed technology' was frowned upon by the witch doctors!
  • kalel 26 Aug 2012 11:44:15 86,409 posts
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    You could suggest rape was necessary for the early thriving of humanity. It's not really a very convincing argument for its relevance today.
  • disusedgenius 26 Aug 2012 11:44:16 5,224 posts
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    @kalel

    Sounds like that's more an issue of ultra-conservationism than mysticism.

    I'm also not sure where you get the idea that mysticism isn't an essential part of human development, even if it is something which diminishes slightly over time. At it's core it's us just doing that 'everything must be connected! Even these two completely unrelated things which which just so happen to be all I have to think about all day' thing we do so well.
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