Union Jack is re-designed Page 2

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  • AaronTurner 13 Jul 2005 08:56:09 7,787 posts
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    Surely if you are English then you are British whether you like it or not. What is wrong with being British anyway?
  • Lutz 13 Jul 2005 09:29:20 48,854 posts
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    Furbs wrote:
    Hence I list myself as English, but am British in the same way I'm European.
    Erm... not quite. You're British, as that is the country you are from (presumably).

    You're English in the same way that you're Cumbrian. Or Cornish.

    You have never been born in England as a country, as England as a Country no longer exists, it is merely a section of a larger country.

    So ATM it's:

    British > English > Mancunian > Ashtoner (Some on from Ashton)

    And when Europe falls into a super state it'd then be preceeded by European > French > Normandy etc.
  • scitzoid-pingu 13 Jul 2005 09:35:12 786 posts
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    Trust the BBC to fuck up on terminology. It's only a jack if it's on a ship, everywhere else it's the union flag

    /turns off pedantic mode
  • darkmorgado 13 Jul 2005 09:50:30 15,566 posts
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    deem wrote:
    there aint no black in the union jack!

    Ain't no fleshy pink either.

    Are we the only people that sees our own flag as symbol of racism and oppression? Never understood that way of thinking. Waving a flag doesn't make you a racist, not that i've any great desire to do so myself.

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  • phAge 13 Jul 2005 10:56:17 24,386 posts
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    Fozzie_bear wrote:
    deem wrote:
    there aint no black in the union jack!

    Ain't no fleshy pink either.

    Are we the only people that sees our own flag as symbol of racism and oppression? Never understood that way of thinking. Waving a flag doesn't make you a racist, not that i've any great desire to do so myself.
    I think the Germans could tell you a lot about having a flag with unfortunate connotations...
  • darkmorgado 13 Jul 2005 11:00:18 15,566 posts
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    phAge wrote:
    I think the Germans could tell you a lot about having a flag with unfortunate connotations...

    Are the germans ashamed of their flag? Seems a bit odd if they are. Surely everyone associates the red / white / black swastika flags with nazism rather than the german flag.

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  • Ecanem 13 Jul 2005 11:00:42 5,035 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    Danes fly their flag all the effing time!
    ....
    I don't have a problem with it.

    Its true.. and until recently I didn't have a problem with it either.. I used to think of Denmark as a little nation that didn't go to war but rather worked politically against it.. now, sadly, the times are changing and whats even worse is that a far right party called "Dansk Folkeparti" (danish peoples party, I guess they'd be an equivalent to the BNP in England) are using the flag heavily in their campaigns to such an extent that you can now hardly see a danish flag without thinking about those scumbags.. Its kinda like how the nazis stole a symbol of the sun and turned it into the hated swastika.. =(
  • Khanivor 13 Jul 2005 11:02:58 40,952 posts
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    phAge wrote:
    Fozzie_bear wrote:
    deem wrote:
    there aint no black in the union jack!

    Ain't no fleshy pink either.

    Are we the only people that sees our own flag as symbol of racism and oppression? Never understood that way of thinking. Waving a flag doesn't make you a racist, not that i've any great desire to do so myself.
    I think the Germans could tell you a lot about having a flag with unfortunate connotations...

    That was still only the flag of a political party.

    Anyway, although this is indeed a lot fo BS drummed up by racists after the bombings, it was a stupid idea in the first place. 20 quid to the first one who finds me a blue person.

    Also, while nationalism has a lot of negative effects, in this day and age of total fragmentation of society I think we could be well served by bolstering a sense of community and commonality. I'd take some flag-waving jingoism over a bomb on the way to work anyday.
  • Ecanem 13 Jul 2005 11:04:43 5,035 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    Also, while nationalism has a lot of negative effects, in this day and age of total fragmentation of society I think we could be well served by bolstering a sense of community and commonality.

    If that means that everybody belong to that community it'd be ok.. but in real life it seems just the opposite is happening (witnessed by the attacks on mosques etc following the bombings)
  • ssuellid 13 Jul 2005 11:04:47 19,141 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    20 quid to the first one who finds me a blue person.

    Do they have to be alive?
  • phAge 13 Jul 2005 11:06:21 24,386 posts
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    Fozzie_bear wrote:
    Are the germans ashamed of their flag? Seems a bit odd if they are. Surely everyone associates the red / white / black swastika flags with nazism rather than the german flag.
    Not sure they're ashamed of it as such - probably more that the German flag (unfairly) becomes a signifier for the WWII-guilt that a lot of Germans (AFAIK) still have. We should ask Uncle Lou or some other German, tho - I could be completely on th ewrong track here.
  • Razz 13 Jul 2005 11:08:24 61,400 posts
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    deem wrote:
    there aint no black in the union jack!

    You are offically ignored.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Steam/PSN/XBOX: Razztafarai | 3DS: 1246-9674-8856
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  • darkmorgado 13 Jul 2005 11:16:21 15,566 posts
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    phAge wrote:
    Fozzie_bear wrote:
    Are the germans ashamed of their flag? Seems a bit odd if they are. Surely everyone associates the red / white / black swastika flags with nazism rather than the german flag.
    Not sure they're ashamed of it as such - probably more that the German flag (unfairly) becomes a signifier for the WWII-guilt that a lot of Germans (AFAIK) still have. We should ask Uncle Lou or some other German, tho - I could be completely on th ewrong track here.

    When i see the german flag i just don't associate it with the war or the nazi party at all. Surely the guilt thing has gone now too? Everyone must accept that it was pretty unique set of circumstances which lead to what happened. Could have happened anywhere. It just wouldn't have been so bloody efficient and well organsied ;o)

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  • Xerx3s 15 Jul 2005 16:30:41 23,944 posts
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    To fuck the UJ is the most insane, retarded idea that ive ever heard.

    "reflecting a more modern society" - So what they are saying is; "There are so many foreigners here that we think that putting in a black line will make things oke." - what a bunch of wankers.

    It just wouldn't have been so bloody efficient and well organsied ;o)
    - true :o


    Khanivor wrote:
    20 quid to the first one who finds me a blue person.



    Do they have to be alive?

    Priceless. :D
  • tengu 8 May 2007 19:54:54 10,294 posts
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    Post deleted
  • Furbs 14 Jun 2007 22:45:51 45,699 posts
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    Didnt this idea get rolled out a while ago? I thought it (rightly) got laughed out of town.
  • Furbs 14 Jun 2007 22:45:51 45,699 posts
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    I think the flag is slowly coming round to being accepted again. Certainly when the major sporting events are on it seems alot more acceptable to have St Georges hanging out your window.

    If more public buildings put the flag up, it would be a huge step forward in reclaiming it. And whilst I used to hate the idea, given the way "recent events" seem to be panning out, I'd be quite happy to support a pledge of allegiance to the country (not the monarchy!) for school kids once a week or so like in the States.
  • Furbs 14 Jun 2007 22:45:51 45,699 posts
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    What I mean is the kids would have to pledge allegiance to the country rather than the royals, the church or anything like that.

    So the line "I swear to burn down the residence of the inbreds when I'm old enough" probably wouldnt get in :)
  • Furbs 14 Jun 2007 22:45:51 45,699 posts
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    Yeah like morris says. The Union, GB, which evers the more politically correct. Unless the jockos didnt like it in which case screw them, do it by each individual country.
  • Furbs 14 Jun 2007 22:45:51 45,699 posts
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    WoodenSpoon wrote:
    I wouldn't want to swear alliegence to the flag :/

    Either way, there's no way you'd get that to work in a UK secondary school, there are too many wannabe rebels.

    Not wishing to sound like a BNP thug type (I only really believe in nationalism when it comes to sport!) but why would you have a problem with it? You live here (I assume), it wouldnt be politically based, nor religion based. More along the idea of Nelsons "England Expects" sort of view.

    As for the rebels, you cant say that otherwise you may as well say "theres no point teaching them anything since they wont want to do it".
  • Furbs 14 Jun 2007 22:45:51 45,699 posts
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    Yeah its one of the things I really admire about the Canadians. They are nation of migrants (with apologies to any Native American and Innuits who might be reading) but they are really proud of their flag and it is used to give everyone a shared identity or something in common. Not saying you have cultural harmony over there, but it was nice to see people take pride in who they were without being jingostic.
  • Furbs 14 Jun 2007 22:45:51 45,699 posts
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    BartonFink wrote:
    @Furbs
    Ye see this gets back to what I was originally getting at what country and what flag. You seem to talk about the UK as being England which is totally wrong and as I said I am not sure but wouldn't it be treason or something?

    Edited by BartonFink at 00:55:50 13-07-2005

    I dont see how I said I see UK as England? Put it to the assemblies. If they are happy for it to be the Union Jack then great, even though I'm English, NOT British, at the same time I'm more than happy to be part of GB/UK/whatever. If feeling is really that strong against the Union Jack, then as I say, let the Scots pledge allegiance to the St Andrews, the Welsh to the Dragon and the Irish to the ummm other one (sorry, English ignorance mode here).

    I'm not sure where how it could be seen as treason though unless I'm missing something?
  • Furbs 14 Jun 2007 22:45:51 45,699 posts
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    Ah thanks, thought it would be St Patrick, but I wasnt sure and didnt want to upset anyone!
    As for the Queen, screw her! I dont cheer her on every two years in a tournament :)

    I wouldnt have thought it was that much of a constitutional issue though since we all have our own national anthems...
  • Furbs 14 Jun 2007 22:45:51 45,699 posts
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    Well, the Scots, Welsh, Irish and the English have their own identity so by calling yourself British to some extent you are diminishing that. Hence I list myself as English, but am British in the same way I'm European.

    Db, is that the current pledge of allegiance? Eugh, as I say, I'd hate to see anyone pledge allegiance to an individual or group of individuals (or a deity for that matter), so for the idea to get my backing it would have to be changed!
    Similarly BartonFink, if thats the case about being mutually exclusive, I'd say we ditched the monarchy :)

    Metaldog, the way you'd have to look at the pledge of allegiance isnt that you dont criticise it, the opposite in fact. By promising to uphold/defend the nation, you'd actually be stating that to the best of your ability you'd do so. Therefore if you felt your country was acting wrongly, your pledge states you will act to prevent it. Yanno, standing up for truth, justice and the English/British/United Kingdom way :)
    Surely pride in our countries/Union history and culture is no bad thing? As is always pointed out all the time, the Irish and Scots really enjoy their patron saints day but dont get criticised for being xenophobic about it. Other countries all over the world have a national day where their celebrate their individualism.

    The whole purpose behind the idea is to be a means of being more inclusive and give us a shared identity. Sure, its alot of idealism, and its not going to have an effect on every kid, but it might make a few of them realise we are compatriots.

    Dont take the American pledge as being typical of such things, other countries do it too.
  • Furbs 14 Jun 2007 22:45:51 45,699 posts
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    Lutz wrote:
    Erm... not quite. You're British, as that is the country you are from (presumably)
    If the Scots can claim to be Scots then I'm going to be English damnit! :p
    Why do we have seperate national anthems and sports teams then?
  • Deleted user 12 December 2012 09:50:45
    Interesting read. Only found it as was seeing if there were opinions on the northern Ireland situation.

    What did the council expect? The loyalists to thank them from removing the union flag except on special occasions.
    Northern Ireland is in the union, so it flys the flag?

    As bad as the Scottish, although I'm pretty positive they wont vote independence as there wouldn't be a long list of positives.
    Some may hate the English but are not foolish to think there aren't loads of benefits of being in the union.

    If they vote independence I say we just invade the next day. :p.
  • Weebleboy 12 Dec 2012 09:53:11 369 posts
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    'We' _can_ hear you, you know?
  • LeoliansBro 12 Dec 2012 09:54:54 44,512 posts
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    What the actual fuck are you on about Pepsipop?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

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