Checkerboard rendering

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  • Farhat27 7 Dec 2017 08:31:26 3 posts
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    Hello, i need some explanation about checkerboard rendering used in ps4 pro.
    It is a hardware method ?
    It is happen in the processor ? if yes, what is the added value or the modification hardware added to the processor ?
    How it work ?

    Please if some one can help me and reply to my questions , because i have a project in my university related to this topic.
    Thx in advance.
  • superdelphinus 7 Dec 2017 08:55:15 9,522 posts
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    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=Google+Spaz&=true
  • Psiloc 7 Dec 2017 09:38:25 4,168 posts
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    superdelphinus wrote:
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=Google+Spaz&=true
    Ha, the irony.
  • Ragnor 7 Dec 2017 09:43:30 202 posts
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    Got to be honest, I haven't the first clue what checkerboard rendering is or does. I did look it up out of curiosity, but decided it made about as much sense to me a VHS instruction manual in Russian. What I did garner, however, is that checkerboard rendering didn't make me enjoy my games any more than usual, but is quite important to console fanboys and that little war of words they're having. Something to do with 'true 4k' or not.
  • neilka 7 Dec 2017 09:48:07 20,692 posts
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  • crashVoodoo 7 Dec 2017 09:49:01 5,547 posts
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    Did Google stop working recently? Why the fuck are all these asshats coming on here wanting us to do their fucking work for them?

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Checkerboard+rendering

    Edited by crashVoodoo at 09:51:23 07-12-2017
  • Psiloc 7 Dec 2017 09:59:43 4,168 posts
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    In fairness, the guy specifically says that he wants to know whether there is discrete hardware specifically for the checkerboard upscaling built inside the PS4 Pro or whether it's done in software. The information is still out there of course but it's not a completely uninformed question.

    Anyway, from the DF article last year:

    Speaking to developers on site, several aspects of the checkerboard technology came into focus. Up until now, we've seen it as a software post-process upscale, but in actual fact, it's one of a number of new custom features backed into the PS4 Pro's GPU and as such comes with zero cost to game developers. We also understand that while it is a hardware feature, game-makers do seem to have a certain level of control - which may perhaps explain why different games exhibit varying levels of artefacting.
    So it sounds like it's not a dedicated chip or anything, but there is a dedicated API on the GPU.
  • Ra_ra_rasputin 7 Dec 2017 10:50:45 311 posts
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    I cant help feeling this post is intended to lure Vizzini out of hiding... Like a fly fisherman just tapping the surface of the water with discussion on PlayStation technology...

    Or maybe more like one of those duck 'quackers'
  • Tonka 7 Dec 2017 11:06:53 26,601 posts
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  • Fake_Blood 7 Dec 2017 11:12:49 7,895 posts
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    It's not a stupid question, I've wondered the same myself, especially why pc gpus don't have this option.
    Also you could google 99% of what gets talked about on this forum, kind of defeats the purpose of a forum.
  • Psiloc 7 Dec 2017 11:22:52 4,168 posts
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    Tonka wrote:
    Erm... I'm pretty sure that description of checkerboarding is completely wrong. I don't think there's a temporal element to it is there?
  • Phattso 7 Dec 2017 11:24:54 22,091 posts
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    Indeed. Temporal anti-aliasing is a thing, but checkerboarding is just duplicating pixels, isn't it? So one pixel becomes a 2x2 grid of that pixel's colour, as a crude example.
  • CrispyXUKTurbo 7 Dec 2017 11:35:50 1,293 posts
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    Nah, that's just standard scaling.
  • Sharz 7 Dec 2017 11:36:33 1,715 posts
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    If you are at university studying something related to rendering techniques I feel you might be out of your depth if a gaming forum is your primary resource.

    May I suggest you get some actual books and/or go to lectures on the subject.
  • Fake_Blood 7 Dec 2017 11:44:54 7,895 posts
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    I have no idea how it works, but here's my guess.
    You're still rendering the same amount of pixels, but their physical location on the screen is spread out. Instead of redering every pixel side by side, line by line, you render one, skip one. Next line you do the same but offset by one. The gaps you interpolate, although there probably is some more clever math than just taking the average between pixels.
  • crashVoodoo 7 Dec 2017 12:07:29 5,547 posts
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    @Fake_Blood understood but the citation he has to put in for it will bit a bit iffy (User Fake_Blood, EG forum : Checkerboard Rendering 2017)

    That aside, I thought checkerboard rendering was to do with removal of higher levels of detail outside of normal eye focus areas and then scaling upwards to meet resolution?
  • Psiloc 7 Dec 2017 12:20:22 4,168 posts
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    @Phattso Yeah thatís standard scaling. Checkerboarding takes a 2x2 grid and turns it into a 4x4 grid, with the extra pixelís colours being created from an approximation of itís nearest neighbours. Or at least thatís the jist. You can see why it produces a much better effect than just duplicating pixels (integer scaling).
  • Psiloc 7 Dec 2017 12:26:25 4,168 posts
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    Iím 90% sure thereís no temporal element by default. Devs have all sorts of different methods at their disposal, but that graphic is definitely misleading. I think the way it categorically ranks different methods as better or worse is also a bit daft. What if a game was dynamic resolution, but spent the majority of its time above 1440p?
  • Phattso 7 Dec 2017 12:52:35 22,091 posts
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    Ah, gotcha. I was fairly sure it was a straight upscale, but a smarter upscale makes more sense.
  • Fake_Blood 7 Dec 2017 13:01:16 7,895 posts
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    Smarter pixels.
  • crashVoodoo 7 Dec 2017 13:29:45 5,547 posts
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    Just been reading about it and there are 2 methods. An older interpolation method and a newer temporal one used by the new consoles.

    https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/20/ps4-pro-mark-cerny-interview-hardware/

    Checkerboard rendering changes the shape of pixels; they're no longer square. Instead, this process relies on delineated horizontal rectangles that each include one color, one Z value and one ID buffer (the building blocks of game graphics). Using data from previous frames to fill in information gaps, checkerboard rendering enables developers to build a more complete, crisp image that, according to Cerny, is nearly identical to native 4K.
    Edited by crashVoodoo at 13:31:01 07-12-2017
  • crashVoodoo 7 Dec 2017 13:38:33 5,547 posts
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    In fact everywhere I go most are referencing this post on gaf

    http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1330505
  • CrispyXUKTurbo 7 Dec 2017 14:17:35 1,293 posts
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    Think of it in a similar way to an interlaced TV image, but in a chess board fashion. But obviously with a few more steps.
  • Psiloc 7 Dec 2017 14:28:55 4,168 posts
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    Checkerboard rendering changes the shape of pixels; they're no longer square. Instead, this process relies on delineated horizontal rectangles that each include one color, one Z value and one ID buffer (the building blocks of game graphics). Using data from previous frames to fill in information gaps, checkerboard rendering enables developers to build a more complete, crisp image that, according to Cerny, is nearly identical to native 4K.
    That is the only time I've heard checkerboarding described like that. Everyone else describes the technique based on interpolating alternate square pixels, kind of like a checkerboard.
  • b0rk 7 Dec 2017 14:39:27 7,445 posts
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    If it's built-in to the Pro GPU then why do so many Devs choose 1440? The Pro is a 1440p box at this point.
  • ZuluHero 7 Dec 2017 14:42:58 5,945 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Smarter pixels.
    Or Smixels. Sounds edgy enough to be a games industry buzzword. ;)
  • Psiloc 7 Dec 2017 14:57:22 4,168 posts
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    @b0rk There's still a performance impact, it's just better than it would have been without the API.

    Don't most of those 1440p games actually use checkerboarding?
  • Malek86 7 Dec 2017 15:51:42 6,440 posts
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    Even ND used standard upscaling, and Insomniac preferred their own temporal solution, so I always assumed they must have had some sort of reason to avoid checkerboarding.

    Fake_Blood wrote:
    It's not a stupid question, I've wondered the same myself, especially why pc gpus don't have this option.
    Also you could google 99% of what gets talked about on this forum, kind of defeats the purpose of a forum.
    Many of these techniques imho rely on the viewer being a fair distance from the screen. On a PC monitor that usually doesn't happen, so any artifact would become more visible.

    Rainbow Six did have an implementation of the thing. I remember it wasn't very good. It's better to just stick with resolution scaling.
  • Fake_Blood 7 Dec 2017 15:59:34 7,895 posts
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    ZuluHero wrote:
    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Smarter pixels.
    Or Smixels. Sounds edgy enough to be a games industry buzzword. ;)
    :D You'll never beat "emotion engine"
  • mal 7 Dec 2017 16:35:04 28,625 posts
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    Psiloc wrote:
    @Phattso Yeah thatís standard scaling. Checkerboarding takes a 2x2 grid and turns it into a 4x4 grid, with the extra pixelís colours being created from an approximation of itís nearest neighbours. Or at least thatís the jist. You can see why it produces a much better effect than just duplicating pixels (integer scaling).
    That sounds like bilinear interpolation. I used to know all this stuff, but thankfully I got better.
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