NaNoWriMo 2017 aka write ten pages then give up Page 2

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  • Metalfish 23 Sep 2017 14:06:52 9,191 posts
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    Aw, Skirlas, you're a doll.

    Don't think for a moment I was intending to be rude about you or your feedback. All feedback is welcome and useful. I did find it really funny that you forced yourself through several pages of writing you didn't really like all that much, went to the effort of explaining what you thought was wrong and how to improve it, to which the author says "yeah, fair point: maybe don't read any further."

    And then you're like "Screw you! I'm going to eat even more of this bland word-pie just to check! And then provide more meaningful feedback! Hah!"

    Part of me loves the tradi-comedy of writing something for years at a time only to be told "yeah, it's a bit dull." Even if that isn't really what happened.
  • Skirlasvoud 23 Sep 2017 14:46:35 2,949 posts
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    Nah, I didn't force myself through more of it. ;-) That's about the point where I got the last time I read it.

    And hey, me digging up a section of your writing just like that and in a minute flat, does really prove that it stuck me by and remembered! I just CTRL+F'd fireplace and copy-pasted.
    The only reason I elaborated the last time, was because I didn't want to drop it without being more constructive, which I was already writing towards. Just leaving you with the notion it was boring is awful. I didn't go "screw you". That's not what happened either.

    Didn't want to bring it up again here either, but I just couldn't bear you beating yourself over your head with last year's critique for the third time! (which is exactly what I feared would happen) That was the second instance you called your work boring and referred to what I said. Just thought I'd do the same and add a little more context to it by recalling it. You seemed a bit dejected. It's not boring! It made an impact on me!

    Anyway, keep it up!

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 14:59:54 23-09-2017
  • SpaceMonkey77 23 Sep 2017 15:11:55 1,016 posts
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    @mrpon

    Patience is a virtue of worthy ones, friend.

    Everything I've written has its own start, middle & end, planned, but for security reasons I can't post here. Your interest is noted, though, so thank you kindly.
  • challenge_hanukkah 23 Sep 2017 15:16:58 5,240 posts
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    When you say security reasons are you worried that people may plagiarise your work?
  • Addy_B 23 Sep 2017 15:21:51 1,716 posts
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    The register he's on doesn't permit posting on forums.
  • sunjumper 23 Sep 2017 15:24:18 3,371 posts
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    @Metalfish

    As a counter balance.

    I think it is important to know that what was compared was a first draft which mjost authors would never show anyone ever, with a published book that has seen its share of editing.

    Another point, reading the examples I could see that yes indeed Martin's prose flows better. You read it and it just works. But in my personal opinion his style is pedestrian and his characters bland. Despite the great flow there was nothing in those paragraphs quoted that went beyond generic faux medieval fantasy. Good flow but not much else.

    While in 'fish's story the flow isn't as good, but pretty those few paragraphs are filled with more humanity and character than most other books. Which is why I personaly loved his story so far.

    I think that editing and polish will go a long way and that commets like those from Skirlasvoud will help identfying why things aren'T working as well as they could.

    And this is also a good example for the breadth of opinions you will encounter when writing.


    P.S. and just to make it clear this is not ment in any way as an attack on Skirlasvoud, whose feedback was great. Well argued with examples and suggestions.

    Edited by sunjumper at 15:26:15 23-09-2017
  • sunjumper 23 Sep 2017 15:29:26 3,371 posts
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    Rivuzu wrote:
    I'm really tempted by this every year, and I've got the same idea knocking in my head that's been there for close to a decade now. I know all the beats, all the characters, and every event.

    Every time I sit down to try and write something? BLAH, YOU FUCKING MORON, YOU CALL THAT WRITING? YOU COULDN'T WRITE YOURSELF OUT OF A PAPER FUCKING BAG YOU CUNT. DELETE THAT SHIT NOW BEFORE SOMEONE SEES IT. GO ON. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR, YOU WEAK WILLED SHIT, DO IT.

    CTRL+A, DEL, cry.
    Almost everyone I know and writes feels that way.
    Don't worry about it just write.

    This here, this thread is a safe place you are among friends and we will help you.
  • Skirlasvoud 23 Sep 2017 15:35:29 2,949 posts
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    challenge_hanukkah wrote:
    When you say security reasons are you worried that people may plagiarise your work?
    I think posting it here might actually be the best security you can afford. You can now point back at your forum post and prove you made that, with more than a dozen witnesses to back you up.

    I might simply be woefully naive though...

    sunjumper wrote:
    I think that editing and polish will go a long way and that commets like those from Skirlasvoud will help identfying why things aren'T working as well as they could.

    P.S. and just to make it clear this is not ment in any way as an attack on Skirlasvoud, whose feedback was great. Well argued with examples and suggestions.
    Plus, what the heck do I know? Far as I know, it's part of a greater series I have no knowledge of. Looks like there's plenty people here who have seen other examples and love it! I could COMPLETELY miss the nail, or my likes have no bearing at all.

    Also, my feedback CAN be a bit abrasive. In 2016, I got really hyped, outspoken and worked up when discussing writing. Sorry if I have been in any way crass or impolite.

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 15:39:30 23-09-2017
  • Skirlasvoud 23 Sep 2017 15:50:39 2,949 posts
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    sunjumper wrote:
    Rivuzu wrote:
    Every time I sit down to try and write something? BLAH, YOU FUCKING MORON, YOU CALL THAT WRITING? YOU COULDN'T WRITE YOURSELF OUT OF A PAPER FUCKING BAG YOU CUNT. DELETE THAT SHIT NOW BEFORE SOMEONE SEES IT. GO ON. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR, YOU WEAK WILLED SHIT, DO IT.

    CTRL+A, DEL, cry.
    Almost everyone I know and writes feels that way.
    Yup!

    I follow a few writing channels. Self-doubt and anxiety seems to be a theme:



    ... that said, above video is a bit on the girly side, but hey!

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 15:54:22 23-09-2017
  • The12thMonkey 23 Sep 2017 15:56:52 494 posts
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    @Rivuzu

    If you know the story and the characters that well, then I'd say stick at it. The pleasure to be gained from actually putting it all down in real sentences is one of the things that really kept me going through my writing. And who knows? You might find that you write yourself to a point and the situation suggests something you haven't planned, and you react to it, choosing a new direction. Those are the most exciting times I've had while writing; the sensation that I'm discovering some new twist to the story in that moment, and the ramifications could be huge for the plot ahead.
  • SpaceMonkey77 23 Sep 2017 16:02:58 1,016 posts
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    Well I'm currently experiencing some plagiarism issues so I must be careful. A long time ago some of my creative files went missing so yeah, I have good reason to be wary of my future work, unless I work with others & receive payment for my works.


    As for the self doubt part, there's a place where all creators need to go to focus. Find yours & remove yourself from negative people & voices who like some kind of evil siren, will seek to sway your creative boat off course. I used to have such negative voices about me, but once I moved away from them, the creativity & imagination began to flow better. you have to fill your sail with your own creative winds inside (parp jest here, but its certainly true).

    What helps me focus is music without lyrics, sometimes silence & solitude. get up each day & push yourself or even let your characters spur you, when in doubt. Its always going to be a lonely creative path, but creators yet have each other, whatever walk of life you hail from, age, gender, rain or shine. Focus create, even if just a few ideas, it all counts & good luck, anyway.
  • challenge_hanukkah 23 Sep 2017 16:14:48 5,240 posts
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    @SpaceMonkey77

    Has any of your stolen work been published and credited to someone else?
  • SpaceMonkey77 23 Sep 2017 16:45:23 1,016 posts
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    @challenge_hanukkah

    Possibly so on some, for sale without my receiving any of that money, so I must be careful. I'll wait to see if some see funds due to me my way. Doubtful, while there are other projects I can't speak of for reasons. I have hope yet.

    Going forwards, I'll be more cautious & gladly the creativity will continue to flow well for me. I can remix some of my works & add new elements to differ. I've already bounced back from it thankfully.

    Edited by SpaceMonkey77 at 16:51:30 23-09-2017
  • Metalfish 23 Sep 2017 16:58:19 9,191 posts
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    The mainly way to deal with self doubt is to neck three scotches and hammer it out?
  • Skirlasvoud 23 Sep 2017 17:12:41 2,949 posts
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    @challenge_hanukkah

    Do we make jokes? Like saying the Russians doctored and credited it to Hillary, which made her delete her private server?

    Seems crass now that we went over the whole vulnerability thing.
  • SpaceMonkey77 23 Sep 2017 17:42:01 1,016 posts
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    Thing with me is I vary my writing. What began for me long ago with writing some hobby game reviews & book reviews, has since turned into a smorgasbord of game design concepts, loose scripts, plays & creating novel tales of my own as original & entertaining as I can make them. Maybe some graphic novel stuff too.


    All I have are okay but I won't brag. I just create what appeals to me most, which is tales crossing most genre or mashing two together.
  • Metalfish 23 Sep 2017 18:31:34 9,191 posts
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    Making stuff is great. It's amazing how much of the advice from successful creative types boils down to "make stuff."

    So who's going to do the weird project this year?
  • SpaceMonkey77 23 Sep 2017 19:58:19 1,016 posts
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    @Metalfish

    Weird! I have a few of those tales in my creative stable, but I won't spoil the cake before it rises. Best to make/create what you love most or would like to see, that you might not have seen yet.

    Most of my stuff is sci-fi, fantasy, some horror, crime, history fiction, but also some lighter works in tone & theme, regular slice of life, everyday stuff too, with maybe some romance & mature situations mixed in, while I'm no genius at that.

    What's important with your creations is to enjoy your world & characters & if you get bored, make it interesting & do crazy unexpected fun weird things.

    Edited by SpaceMonkey77 at 19:59:09 23-09-2017
  • rice_sandwich 25 Sep 2017 06:18:36 3,269 posts
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    I've started working on a plot outline for my entry. If I don't there's no way I'll have enough time to reach the 50000 word target in time.
  • wuntyphyve 25 Sep 2017 09:19:30 9,508 posts
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    Starting to formulate...something. But I'm not sure if I want to start something new or go back to some of the children I've neglected.

    Trouble is, is that the two nearly-books I've done, I've written so many characters and so many plot strands and so much, well, shit, that I'm never going to tie either of them together. So I'm thinking either something new or go back to last years, keep it really bloody simple, as few characters and shit as possible and see if I can actually finish something.

    Yeah, that might work. Maybe.
  • neilka 25 Sep 2017 09:20:59 20,596 posts
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    Could we read some of your works please user SpaceMonkey77?
  • SpaceMonkey77 25 Sep 2017 18:55:44 1,016 posts
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    @neilka

    I would but I don't think you'd like it at the moment, as said I'm working on multiple projects all the time, too many but today I did some major brainstorming for more, so I got some new stuff to work on. I got loads to write, so not yet. Glad to see your enthusiasm, which helps me. Thanks. When I have something I'll come find you.

    @wuntyphyve

    I think you need to edit your book down, friend. Far too many threads will be confusing for your reader. I'd say cut back to five-six threads max or your reader may get lost. Its up to you & anything you cut out can always be added in a second book, if you want to do more in a world. Don't be scared to edit, so long as it remains fun to read. Tis up to you. Good luck.

    Edited by SpaceMonkey77 at 19:27:07 25-09-2017
  • sunjumper 26 Sep 2017 11:40:24 3,371 posts
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    Skirlasvoud wrote:
    Plus, what the heck do I know? Far as I know, it's part of a greater series I have no knowledge of. Looks like there's plenty people here who have seen other examples and love it! I could COMPLETELY miss the nail, or my likes have no bearing at all.

    Also, my feedback CAN be a bit abrasive. In 2016, I got really hyped, outspoken and worked up when discussing writing. Sorry if I have been in any way crass or impolite.
    Feedback is very important. Especially coming from people who are enthusiastic. About what they are reading, about the craft, about the potential of a story.
    I was criminally absent in the 2016 thread, so I can comment on your feedback style there. What I have seen so far seems pretty good. The energy is there alright and you back-up everything you say. You certainly are on the shortlist for the “Most impressive use of quotes giving feedback” award. It is easy to see what you are talking about.

    Talking about feedback in general there are two things I found:
    First of all feedback should help the recipient becoming better at what they are doing. There should always be an element that shows them how and where to grow.
    Everything else is complaining which is both artless as well as destructive. Telling someone that their work is shit full stop, does not help them understand why it was bad or how it could be improved.

    This leads to my second point, that whenever possible feedback should be anchored in something positive. Helping someone understand what works and how to reinforce that. How to recognize and avoid the things that weaken these qualities. Thus they can build on their strengths instead of being reminded of their failures.
    In the end people tend to be their own worst critics, they don’t need help eviscerating their work.

    It is also worth considering that the things that appear here are first drafts, the versions most authors are loath to show even to themselves. These are bound to be flawed. It is also the point where good feedback can help the most.
  • HarryPalmer 26 Sep 2017 11:52:48 5,271 posts
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    I seem to remember the last time I tried this I ended up writing about a sinister assisted suicide clinic and a main protagonist who could use cats to travel between time and space.

    I usually enjoy it until I realise I have no idea where the story is going and get scared.
  • sunjumper 26 Sep 2017 12:27:01 3,371 posts
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    HarryPalmer wrote:
    I seem to remember the last time I tried this I ended up writing about a sinister assisted suicide clinic and a main protagonist who could use cats to travel between time and space.

    I usually enjoy it until I realise I have no idea where the story is going and get scared.
    Just follow the crazy thoughts. I know the feeling of a story desintegrating in your hands really well, but it is a good excercise.
    Also if you do get feedback people tend to ask questions that help you advance your plot.

    In the end this isn't a competition. At least not against others, if at all you are competing against yourself.
  • wuntyphyve 26 Sep 2017 12:28:25 9,508 posts
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    HarryPalmer wrote:
    I seem to remember the last time I tried this I ended up writing about a sinister assisted suicide clinic and a main protagonist who could use cats to travel between time and space.

    I usually enjoy it until I realise I have no idea where the story is going and get scared.
    Was that a few years back? I was enjoying that!
  • HarryPalmer 26 Sep 2017 14:16:03 5,271 posts
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    Thanks, Wunty. Yeah, it was probably a couple of years ago, which is sad. The only writing I have done since is a very short story about a guy having an affair with his toaster.

    I'm down to try again this year though.
  • rice_sandwich 26 Sep 2017 14:24:19 3,269 posts
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    After reading a couple of novellas in the past few days I've decided to stick to fitting my story into 50k words. It's probably better to keep things tight and focus on the story than to ramble on for hundreds of pages.
  • SpaceMonkey77 26 Sep 2017 14:58:53 1,016 posts
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    Also be wise to plan the beats of your story out. There are plenty of books on writing let alone podcasts, so go nuts & enjoy.
  • rice_sandwich 26 Sep 2017 15:14:48 3,269 posts
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    I'm doing that now. I have a title and about a dozen bullet points for different parts of the story. It's a skeleton to hang stuff off.
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