Tooth and Tail (Total War: Watership Down) PS4/Steam

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  • Skirlasvoud 13 Sep 2017 01:33:15 2,940 posts
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    Love me some new RTS titles and this one looks like a hoot:




    ACG has done a review and was very positive about it:





    Gonna check it out tomorrow and give it my 2 cents. Anyone else?

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 01:33:27 13-09-2017
  • mal 13 Sep 2017 02:27:39 28,505 posts
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    Fucking pixelart. That said, it does look like there's a lot of content there.
  • Trafford 13 Sep 2017 09:50:28 7,973 posts
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    I do like the look and sound of this.
  • LittleSparra 13 Sep 2017 10:02:41 6,997 posts
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    That looks cool! Will investigate...
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 13 Sep 2017 11:38:20 4,715 posts
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    Total War-tership Down, Shirley?
  • Trowel 13 Sep 2017 13:59:52 21,655 posts
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    Recommended

    Nice screenshot from UncleLou in the comments of the split-screen multiplayer too.
  • Skirlasvoud 13 Sep 2017 15:05:28 2,940 posts
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    Nice! Eurogamer was quick on the draw of a review this time. Mere hours after I put up this thread.
  • GloatingSwine 13 Sep 2017 20:35:46 3,603 posts
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    Grabbed this off GOG, will take a little getting used to the controls for an RTS but there's a fair amount of promise here.

    Presentation is great, nice animations, music and gravelly cod-Russian from all the various gribblies.
  • caligari 13 Sep 2017 21:19:21 17,644 posts
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    Looks fang-tastic - does anybody know how well it plays with a controller? Tempted by the PS4 version.
  • Trafford 13 Sep 2017 22:58:37 7,973 posts
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    12.99 on PSN, that's an impulse price point for me. I'm going in.
  • caligari 13 Sep 2017 23:01:29 17,644 posts
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    Trafford wrote:
    12.99 on PSN, that's an impulse price point for me. I'm going in.
    Report back to us, soldier - I've been buying far too much recently, but I'm being strangely drawn to this. Just want to make sure that controller doesn't make things too cumbersome.
  • Skirlasvoud 13 Sep 2017 23:15:03 2,940 posts
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    @caligari

    Just ran through the first two tutorial levels on PC, using an XBox controller.

    This is eminently playable on a controller! In fact, the game is build for a controller and I prefer it. It really allows you to hang back and just relax with a controller on your stomach.


    Where in any other RTS game you need to drag your mouse-cursor around the battlefield to select units and then drag the cursor again to give the order, in T&T you ARE THE CURSOR.

    The only character you need to control is a high-health, fast healing flag bearer who can recruit specific unit types, but cannot attack him/herself. All you need to do is use the thumbsticks/WASD to run up to an area where you want something to happen, then order (specific parts of) your army to either keep following you by holding the mouse button/right trigger, or advance towards the position you're in and stay there with a single tap.

    Want to punch through an enemy line? Walk up to it, stand in front of the turrets, order your siege units to advance and back out again. Your siege units will advance on your previous position and attack anything that gets in range, including the defences.
    Siege units getting attacked by aerial units while sieging the defences? Walk to a safe area and order your siege units towards you to pull them out, then order your anti-air to follow you and and walk into the aerial threat to counter them.

    It's very simple and pretty much eliminates everything that's accurate/finicky about Keyboard and Mouse. The controller scheme is very simple. Only problem of course is that your cursor in this game can get shot, so you need to be careful where you put it.



    It's not got the tactical depth that I crave yet, but hey, it's only the tutorial levels. I'm sure it'll pick up.

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 23:23:43 13-09-2017
  • Trafford 13 Sep 2017 23:53:41 7,973 posts
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    @Skirlasvoud

    That's a good descriptional post, thank you.
    I'm just on the menus, faffing around with a smoke and a pot of tea.
    Will report back later.
  • mal 14 Sep 2017 01:35:03 28,505 posts
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    How do you select different units then, if you don't lasso them with the mouse? Is it one unit type per button, or is there a menu that pops up that you need to choose from? I guess if it's designed for menus then it will allow for that.
  • Skirlasvoud 14 Sep 2017 03:00:39 2,940 posts
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    @mal

    No time for menus! Combat is too frenetic for that.

    You switch between unit types with the right thumbstick (waggling left to right). I've at most controlled 5 different units, so its doable. Right trigger commands your entire army to move towards your spot, left trigger just that unit type.

    Only drawback is that you can't spread out your units. Anti-air forms one big blob. Infantry comes in one big blob. Artillery comes in one big blob. And the entire blob moves with a single command. If you have five unit types, you have 5 blobs.

    However, maps are small and intimate in Tooth and Tail.
    In a bigger RTS, it's like you're on a football field. You have a team of twelve people, everyone has one hand and you're playing several instances of continues rock-paper-scissor matches all across the field until you can force a breakthrough somewhere.
    In Tooth and Nail, you and your opponent are sat opposite a kitchen table and the both of you are Vishnu, with 4-6 hands, permanently shaped like a rock, paper or scissor. You weave in with your gestures, slap away one of your opponents hands, back off somewhere else. It's quite visceral, immediate and satisfying.

    It still sorta boils down to making good trades until you have enough resources to simply crush your opponent through economic weight. The campaign AI (so far) is doing a shoddy job at cheating with an economic advantage and just sending out their single, strongest unit type until I can hard-counter and brush it away. I guess other players would be more clever and if you're into RTS, the subtle differences and detail T&T comes up with are still a very satisfying take on the formula.

    Plus, thanks to the control scheme: if you're a console player who wants a good RTS built for your machine and the controller, then Tooth and Tail is it. For PC players I would give it a "recommended", but it's an "essential" for those strategy lovers on PS4.

    I also like the worldbuilding.

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 03:17:35 14-09-2017
  • Skirlasvoud 15 Sep 2017 18:04:25 2,940 posts
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    Little warning to anyone considering this:

    The game is hard as nails when you're trying for the heroic objectives.

    So far I really like the campaign. The worldbuilding is pretty good and the missions revolve around interesting aspects of your units and different rulesets. It's like a little puzzle game.

    Problem is that the procedural generation can make it unnecessarily hard to finish some of them.

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 20:39:29 15-09-2017
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