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Coldplay X & Y - Let the love / hate relationship begin... • Page 3

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  • kdsh7 6 Jun 2005 15:58:59 1,130 posts
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    ssuellid wrote:
    Dull. Occasional catchy tune but to me its Dido with guitars.

    Thats of course we are still allowed to express and opinion around here?

    /reads thread.

    Doesn't look like it.
    Funnily enough, that's EXACTLY how Liam Gallagher described Coldplay. Except he used the word 'cocks'.

    As for the Oasis being music for Yobs argument, I don't think I'm a yob, and music telling people to be positive, aspiring to be greater (as opposed to being 98% melancholic) is not something to be looked down upon. I like Gretters' argument about Definitely Maybe and Morning Glory - people change, and letting the music change naturally as a result of that is infinitely more favourable than changing pretentiously to suit a target market ala Madonna/U2..etc
  • pjmaybe 6 Jun 2005 15:59:35 70,678 posts
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    It's a music thread though, like comedy threads and "birds I'd shag up the gary glitter" threads, it's usually a hotch potch of taste and opinion.

    Funny that...!

    Peej
  • bainbrge 6 Jun 2005 15:59:53 1,687 posts
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    duncan wrote:
    bainbrge wrote:
    Absolute

    Total

    Wank.

    Chris Martin is a prize tool, the evidence:

    1. "Shareholders are the greatest evil of the modern world"
    is true though
    I was taking exception to him being vacuous and vague. And, hypocritical considering his relationship with the commercial world, unless he's taking it down from the inside of course...
    Unfortunately that's what drives the industry. No one gives a monkeys about grass roots music, no one will pay a fat record contract out to anyone who only appeals to a very small section of music listeners...
    Who cares about the Coldplay end of the industry? Who should care? They support DRM, increasingly restrict our choices, and cynically market crap. There is another side to commercial music, for example, I love a lot of the music on Kompakt Records, and stuff like Basic Channel, Underground Resistance etc. These labels are not majors, and they have very specific artistic/political aims. They are also relatively successful and the music is easy to get hold of, even if you don't listen to Vinyl. Support the people making real music - I'd happily see the majors burn in a fire of their own making (thanks BPI and RIAA).
    And I won't even get started on hip hop, which continues on its path to becoming a self-parodying crock of corporate and money driven bullshit
    not all of it, but I agree. I was referencing the creation of a genre through a larger movement, i.e. "real" and not in the Ali G sense.
  • pjmaybe 6 Jun 2005 16:02:19 70,678 posts
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    Music shouldn't be about politics in any shape or form.

    U2 trying to save the poor? Fuck off...

    Chris Martin with his oh so clever (and censored on top of the pops) messages written on his hand? Fuck off...

    Music to listen to, enjoy in the car, or at home, or on your headphones as you bash out mindless PHP code at work - Yes please.

    Peej
  • boo 6 Jun 2005 16:02:55 10,777 posts
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    Lovemoose wrote:Of course, the other problem with them getting big is that they're also disliked by just the kind of people I really don't want to share the same taste in music with... bainbrge and boo for example. ;)
    /dons tin foil helmet

    And how exactly do you know what my taste in music is?

    All you know is that I'm none too fond of Coldplay and the new Oasis single...

    Just Another Lego Blog

  • pjmaybe 6 Jun 2005 16:04:23 70,678 posts
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    Aye you can't make a snap judgement on someone's entire taste in music just based on them liking / disliking a couple of things.

    I like Coldplay's stuff enough to have bought their three albums, but one look at my CD rack and you'd be hard pressed to find any other bands in there like 'em.

    Peej
  • Derblington 6 Jun 2005 16:04:31 19,633 posts
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    I think Coldplay and Oasis are both wank.
  • tannerd 6 Jun 2005 16:04:44 2,691 posts
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    bainbrge wrote:
    Khanivor has it in a nutshell.

    When they first arrived, it was due to marketing by EMI, who must have decided to sign them because they were "Radiohead Lite", which is what was popular at the time. All the other crock of shit bands like Travis were mining the same crapulent seam.

    Music is best when it has been built up from the grassroots, either in response to adversity, or to reflect new cultural trends (edit: disregarding individual talent, I'm thinking genres). See hip hop, and for a current example Grime.

    Coldplay/Keane/Travis are the result of marketing men seeing and exploiting the unfortunate predilection of the UK "record buying public" (i.e. 3 CDs a year from fucking ASDA) for safer versions of good music (in this case Radiohead). Marvel as exactly the same process occurs with bands like the Kaiser Chiefs/Franz Ferdinand (not that bad)/The Kills or is it Killers? etc fucking cetera.

    Edited by bainbrge at 15:47:53 06-06-2005
    What a load of fucking bollocks.

    Take Travis. Oasis called them the best band in the world in the mid 90's. First album was meh. Then they come up with The Man Who and sold a shit load. Do you think that was down to "marketing men", or the fact that lots of people liked the music and bought it?

    Coldplay - again make music that lots of people like to buy. Shock! Horror!

    If lots of people like it, it must be shit and they must all be idiots!

    Edit: All IMHO, naturally...

    Edited by tannerd at 16:05:01 06-06-2005
  • pjmaybe 6 Jun 2005 16:10:05 70,678 posts
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    He's right.

    And as I said, it's gotta be so obscure no one's ever heard of it, otherwise you're some sort of corporate-led moron incapable of rational thought and lacking individuality...

    /dons "Oasis (and after lunch Curve)" t shirt

    Peej
  • boo 6 Jun 2005 16:10:48 10,777 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    Aye you can't make a snap judgement on someone's entire taste in music
    Trout.
    Mask.
    Replica.

    You're still in the doghouse for that one!
    ;o)

    Just Another Lego Blog

  • pjmaybe 6 Jun 2005 16:13:24 70,678 posts
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    boo wrote:
    pjmaybe wrote:
    Aye you can't make a snap judgement on someone's entire taste in music
    Trout.
    Mask.
    Replica.

    You're still in the doghouse for that one!
    ;o)
    I know...!

    I just...well, I just can't apologise enough...! :)

    Peej
  • Lovemoose 6 Jun 2005 16:13:39 999 posts
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    boo wrote:
    Lovemoose wrote:Of course, the other problem with them getting big is that they're also disliked by just the kind of people I really don't want to share the same taste in music with... bainbrge and boo for example. ;)
    /dons tin foil helmet

    And how exactly do you know what my taste in music is?

    All you know is that I'm none too fond of Coldplay and the new Oasis single...
    Quite simple, if you don't like coldplay, I'm not really very likely to like your taste in music. I guess you'd say the same in reverse for me. Its the way of the world.

    twitter: @chockey

  • bainbrge 6 Jun 2005 16:13:43 1,687 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    Music shouldn't be about politics in any shape or form.
    Music can be a very effective response to a political issue, its a very powerful form of protest - look at slave songs. Underground Resistance are very political in a weird black power kind of way. This is slightly different to being political for the purposes of self aggrandisement a la U2 (although I might be being harsh).

    What is wrong with expecting a little bit more than mindless crap from the music you listen to? I want to be engaged physically, intelectually and emotionally by music. Thats why I joined a brass band to play the euphonium.

  • ssuellid 6 Jun 2005 16:14:30 19,141 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    otherwise you're some sort of corporate-led moron incapable of rational thought and lacking individuality...
    You have to be or you get dropped from your label. The vast majority of record companies won't take risks promoting anyone who won't fit into the mainstream anymore. They won't take a risk on a band that doesn't fit the mould.
  • Lovemoose 6 Jun 2005 16:15:38 999 posts
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    ssuellid wrote:
    pjmaybe wrote:
    otherwise you're some sort of corporate-led moron incapable of rational thought and lacking individuality...
    You have to be or you get dropped from your label. The vast majority of record companies won't take risks promoting anyone who won't fit into the mainstream anymore. They won't take a risk on a band that doesn't fit the mould.
    Much like the games industry eh?

    twitter: @chockey

  • Mr_Sleep 6 Jun 2005 16:15:45 13,567 posts
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    tannerd wrote:
    If lots of people like it, it must be shit and they must all be idiots!
    Erm, Crazy Frog? The fact that loads of people buy it doesn't make it good and vice versa. I hate the thought that anything is viable as music if enough people like it. Sometimes opinions are wrong and a classic is that for a very good reason. Because it's fucking good.
  • Zoltar 6 Jun 2005 16:17:14 628 posts
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    Can someone define "good music" for me please? I'm a bit confused, I wasn't aware that there was a universal system for measuring the quality of artistic mediums.
  • pjmaybe 6 Jun 2005 16:17:40 70,678 posts
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    bainbrge wrote:
    I want to be engaged physically, intelectually and emotionally by music. Thats why I joined a brass band to play the euphonium.
    Same here - but music used to ram a politcal agenda down my throat? No ta, if I want that, I'll go along to a rally and listen to someone talk. I don't need it playing on my stereo at home.

    Ssue, my comment about corporate-led morons was about consumers not about musicians but yeah I can see how the same rules apply.

    Does anyone get into music just for the love of it any more? When I was in a band that's all we did it for, that and being bloody big showoffs and maybe earning a free pint or two here and there...

    Peej
  • kdsh7 6 Jun 2005 16:18:43 1,130 posts
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    Zoltar wrote:
    Can someone define "good music" for me please? I'm a bit confused, I wasn't aware that there was a universal system for measuring the quality of artistic mediums.
    Hence all the IMHOs all over the place.

    (despite there being nothing humble about them!)
  • lost_soul 6 Jun 2005 16:20:22 9,369 posts
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    I quite like X & Y, I'd give 6 or 7 out of 10, same for Rush of Blood.

    I absolutely loved Parachutes though, Yellow, Trouble, Don't Panic, Shiver, all fantastic tracks.
  • tannerd 6 Jun 2005 16:21:03 2,691 posts
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    Mr Sleep wrote:
    tannerd wrote:
    If lots of people like it, it must be shit and they must all be idiots!
    Erm, Crazy Frog? The fact that loads of people buy it doesn't make it good and vice versa. I hate the thought that anything is viable as music if enough people like it. Sometimes opinions are wrong and a classic is that for a very good reason. Because it's fucking good.
    The point I was making was that if lots of people buy something it doesn't automatically mean that it is rubbish. I certainly wasn't saying that if lots of people buy it then it must be good. However, as lots of people have bought Crazy Frog, then it must get something right. I'm not sure that something is musical though...
  • Mr_Sleep 6 Jun 2005 16:23:02 13,567 posts
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    Zoltar wrote:
    Can someone define "good music" for me please? I'm a bit confused, I wasn't aware that there was a universal system for measuring the quality of artistic mediums.
    I tend to think that sometimes an album is well made, well written and just rather well performed that it transcends whether anyone likes it to the point of just being good through sheer excellence. Witness Marquee Moon by Television or There's a Riot Going on by Sly & the Family Stone.

    Personally I'm sick of IMHO when it comes to music, of course it's your opinion otherwise what would be the point. There are few absolutes but music taste is one of them, everyone has a different one and if they don't then they're copying someone else.

    I have friends whose music taste is very similar but he really likes Reggae where as I don't particularly etc.
  • Mr_Sleep 6 Jun 2005 16:25:27 13,567 posts
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    tannerd wrote:
    The point I was making was that if lots of people buy something it doesn't automatically mean that it is rubbish. I certainly wasn't saying that if lots of people buy it then it must be good. However, as lots of people have bought Crazy Frog, then it must get something right. I'm not sure that something is musical though...
    Oh absolutely, Santana 1 is a blinding record and it sold really well or any other number of Beatles, Stones or Who records. Sold well but doesn't make them shit.

    I misunderstood then and I apologise.

    The Crazy Frog just used a classic track and is a typical novelty tune.
  • Zoltar 6 Jun 2005 16:27:48 628 posts
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    Mr Sleep wrote:
    Zoltar wrote:
    Can someone define "good music" for me please? I'm a bit confused, I wasn't aware that there was a universal system for measuring the quality of artistic mediums.
    I tend to think that sometimes an album is well made, well written and just rather well performed that it transcends whether anyone likes it to the point of just being good through sheer excellence. Witness Marquee Moon by Television or There's a Riot Going on by Sly & the Family Stone.

    Personally I'm sick of IMHO when it comes to music, of course it's your opinion otherwise what would be the point. There are few absolutes but music taste is one of them, everyone has a different one and if they don't then they're copying someone else.

    I have friends whose music taste is very similar but he really likes Reggae where as I don't particularly etc.
    No, I know and I agree.

    Edited by Zoltar at 16:27:11 06-06-2005
  • tannerd 6 Jun 2005 16:29:04 2,691 posts
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    Mr Sleep wrote:
    The Crazy Frog just used a classic track and is a typical novelty tune.
    Think of the generation growing up that will forever associate Axel F with a stupid frog...

    I reckon it would've gone to number 1 without the Axel F anyhow. I guess it was just a new version to sell more ringtones. How long before they start giving ringtones away with singles? Think of the sales you'd get...
  • pistol 6 Jun 2005 16:30:12 12,851 posts
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    pjmaybe wrote:
    Music shouldn't be about politics in any shape or form.

    U2 trying to save the poor? Fuck off...

    Chris Martin with his oh so clever (and censored on top of the pops) messages written on his hand? Fuck off...

    Music to listen to, enjoy in the car, or at home, or on your headphones as you bash out mindless PHP code at work - Yes please.

    Peej
    Peej, I'm with you. I think people try way too hard to over analyse everything. I really don't understand it. Why can't people just enjoy music for what it is anymore. My music tastes are so varied. I couldn't care less about who makes it, how cool they are, what they stand for etc. If I like it I like it, that's it.
  • unwashed 6 Jun 2005 16:31:30 1,857 posts
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    tannerd wrote:
    Mr Sleep wrote:
    tannerd wrote:
    If lots of people like it, it must be shit and they must all be idiots!
    Erm, Crazy Frog? The fact that loads of people buy it doesn't make it good and vice versa. I hate the thought that anything is viable as music if enough people like it. Sometimes opinions are wrong and a classic is that for a very good reason. Because it's fucking good.
    The point I was making was that if lots of people buy something it doesn't automatically mean that it is rubbish. I certainly wasn't saying that if lots of people buy it then it must be good. However, as lots of people have bought Crazy Frog, then it must get something right. I'm not sure that something is musical though...
    To put crazy frog in perspective slightly, my mate (who works in marketing) has found out that Jamster (the fun people behind the frog, and others...) are spending approx. £0.5m a week on TV advertising at the moment... His company normally spends approx. £2m on TV advertising in a year...
  • Khanivor 6 Jun 2005 16:32:37 38,680 posts
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    bainbrge wrote:
    There is another side to commercial music, for example, I love a lot of the music on Kompakt Records, and stuff like Basic Channel, Underground Resistance etc. These labels are not majors, and they have very specific artistic/political aims. They are also relatively successful and the music is easy to get hold of, even if you don't listen to Vinyl. .
    +5

    Basic Channel and UR are teh r0xx0rz, and make no mistake about that.
  • tannerd 6 Jun 2005 16:32:46 2,691 posts
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    Right, I can't take it any more.

    /stand up

    I like Ocean Colour Scene! Still! And not just the popular stuff!

    And...

    I like Nelly Furtado!

    /sits down
  • pistol 6 Jun 2005 16:33:33 12,851 posts
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    unwashed wrote:
    tannerd wrote:
    Mr Sleep wrote:
    tannerd wrote:
    If lots of people like it, it must be shit and they must all be idiots!
    Erm, Crazy Frog? The fact that loads of people buy it doesn't make it good and vice versa. I hate the thought that anything is viable as music if enough people like it. Sometimes opinions are wrong and a classic is that for a very good reason. Because it's fucking good.
    The point I was making was that if lots of people buy something it doesn't automatically mean that it is rubbish. I certainly wasn't saying that if lots of people buy it then it must be good. However, as lots of people have bought Crazy Frog, then it must get something right. I'm not sure that something is musical though...
    To put crazy frog in perspective slightly, my mate (who works in marketing) has found out that Jamster (the fun people behind the frog, and others...) are spending approx. £0.5m a week on TV advertising at the moment... His company normally spends approx. £2m on TV advertising in a year...
    Yeah, apparently the guy who developed the character hates it now. Think's it's had way too much exposure.

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