Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus Page 9

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  • JamboWayOh 29 Oct 2017 12:30:34 3,376 posts
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    @Malek86

    You should definitely play the game the references are not 'everywhere' as some people on twitter would lead you to believe. It's mainly found in the collectables and the Roswell level. What I've seen is that the current political climate seems so much like a parody of life that it seems like a perfect match for the cartoonish world of wolfenstein.
  • Furtive_Pygmy 29 Oct 2017 12:55:12 6,394 posts
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    Rogueywon wrote:
    @JamboWayOh They don't make me uncomfortable, they make me bored. Politics are very, very angry right now, across most of the world. I'd sometimes like to be able to play games without that being forced into them.

    The New Order was much better at the whole "life under Nazi rule" thing because it was more subtle about it. It was good at shocking through mundanity. You'd overhear conversations between Nazi soldiers about how bored they were, or about their girlfriends and so on. There were plenty of furniture-chewing villains, but it also got over that you were in a world where "Nazi was normal", which was pretty chilling.

    The New Colossus, by contrast, is drawn in much starker terms. It actually loses a lot of the impact of its predecessor and comes over as a lot more cartoonish. Sometimes, when it comes to storytelling, less really is more. That first hour of the New Colossus, in particular, really is an exercise in "going too far".
    Absolutely agree with all of this. I have to say the more I play this the less I like it, I thought New Order was noticeably better.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 29 Oct 2017 13:24:09 1,927 posts
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    @Furtive_Pygmy Jesus, I just played another hour and it gets worse, doesn't it?

    This is now beyond all bounds of plausibility and into the realm of the writer's masturbatory fantasy. I'll keep playing for the level design and gunplay, both of which are good. But this is the biggest plot fuckup I've seen since the creators of Modern Warfare 2 thought it was a good idea to have Russia invade the US.
  • Malek86 29 Oct 2017 13:36:37 6,318 posts
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    Rogueywon wrote:
    @Furtive_Pygmy Jesus, I just played another hour and it gets worse, doesn't it?

    This is now beyond all bounds of plausibility and into the realm of the writer's masturbatory fantasy. I'll keep playing for the level design and gunplay, both of which are good. But this is the biggest plot fuckup I've seen since the creators of Modern Warfare 2 thought it was a good idea to have Russia invade the US.
    I don't think anything could be woprse than Homefront and its North Korean invasion of the world.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 29 Oct 2017 13:40:08 1,927 posts
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    @Malek86 Let's be fair to Homefront here. That was, for most of development, supposed to be China and not North Korea. The switch to North Korea was imposed at a late stage because of the publisher's concerns about their access to the Chinese market. Switch "North Korea" for "China" and Homefront makes more sense.

    Edit: Though of course - as per your previous post - Homefront has dated badly because its references to contemporary politics and economics were out of date almost from the day it launched. Its whole "economic collapse of America" narrative was predicated on fuel prices soaring. In reality, by the time it hit the shelves, they were already retreating from historic highs and have plummeted since, due to a combination of over-supply, fracking and renewables.

    Edited by Rogueywon at 13:42:27 29-10-2017
  • Malek86 29 Oct 2017 13:43:17 6,318 posts
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    @Rogueywon it feels pretty stupid even with China, honestly. Besides, I can only judge what we got.

    Actually, a whole lot of military shooters have really stupid background plots. I think Splinter Cell, at least the first couple ones, did it decently (the most recent ones sucked). But maybe I just don't remember all that well. Besides, it has the advantages of not needing to drop you straight into war.

    Edit: as per your edit, I just want to point out that the story of Homefront was so absolutely inane that I never even thought of analyzing it from a contemporary point of view. Thanks for that head up - sounds like there was at least a bit more to it than I noticed.

    Edited by Malek86 at 13:50:14 29-10-2017
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 29 Oct 2017 13:53:18 1,927 posts
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    @Malek86 There were the seeds of something really decent in Homefront. They tapped into a school of thought that had a lot of traction in 2011, that the great recession had ended US economic supremacy. The best dystopian fiction works because it hits on themes that have real resonance. Homefront was 90% of the way there, with its premise. The background text about Walmart being out of medicine and four hour queues to buy petrol had - somewhere in early 2011 - a horrible sheen of plausibility.

    They fucked it up because the game they made was the wrong vehicle to explore that. A Fallout-type open world survival game that picked up that premise might have worked, but given how long those take to develop, work on it would probably have needed to start even before Lehman Brothers went down. The overseas invasion aspect wasn't particularly necessary, but if they'd stuck with China, at least it wouldn't have been completely ridiculous. There's a lot of clever writing lurking behind Homefront. It's just a pity that a) the 6-hour corridor shooter was the preferred genre at the time and was the wrong genre for that story and b) events moved fast enough that it was obsolete even before it launched. With the US economy more or less healthy and China starting to hit the second-world-ceiling, the scenario Homefront outlined feels a bit quaint and dated now.

    Homefront: The Revolution had none of this clever stuff in the background and is beneath contempt.
  • Malek86 29 Oct 2017 14:00:20 6,318 posts
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    @Rogueywon it doesn't help that, while the background plot sounds like it had more thought to it than I knew, the actual game story was pretty mediocre even by linear shooter standards (which means it was terrible by any other videogame standards). I don't even remember any of the characters or plot events, so heavy was their adherence to the cookie-cutting standards of the genre.

    In the end, even a game with a hardly believable setting, can still be good if the actual plot is well done (see Wolfenstein TNO). I'll take that over the vast majority of military shooters.

    Edited by Malek86 at 14:05:22 29-10-2017
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 29 Oct 2017 14:04:32 1,927 posts
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    @Malek86 Yeah, that's kinda the point. It feels to me like they had ideas for something much grander during pre-production, but then the publisher or somebody else in authority clamped down and insisted it be fit into the 6-hour-corridor-shooter template that was the norm back in 2011 (these days, it's open-world-with-loot-boxes). So all of the interesting writing they'd done ended up as background text, while the game itself was a boring shooter with predictable story beats.

    Go back and read that background text some time - I think you can find most of it online without replaying the game. There's some really good and unsettling stuff in there. Meanwhile the game itself was "press X to hide in mass grave". Because 2011.
  • Darth_Flibble 29 Oct 2017 18:36:21 2,832 posts
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    I really hope they can patch the game to make it more enjoyable (posted some comments in the completed games thread) I really don't understand why the devs need to mess with things they got right in TNO and old blood
  • Monsieur_Blade 29 Oct 2017 22:20:03 435 posts
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    This was supposed to arrive on Monday but dropped on my doormat yesterday morning which was a nice surprise. Wolfenstein TNO is one of my favourite games on the PS4 so I was pretty excited to get started on this.

    I don't know if it was just cos I had such high expectations but I really wasn't blown away by the first couple of hours. It wasn't bad or anything but it all just felt a bit underwhelming and familiar and wasn't really drawing me in. But then I arrived on the submarine and met all the team and I'm loving it again now. I've just arrived in Neu York and it all feels very atmospheric and I can't wait to push on with the game now :)

    I do agree that the damage is a bit strange though and I keep dying suddenly because I'd not realised my health was so low.
  • Salaman 29 Oct 2017 22:38:22 22,826 posts
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    @UncleLou
    Soooo been playing The New Order the last few nights. I'm near the end (chapter 15) and again came across a room that seemed impossible to clear. 2 regular soldiers that I could stealh kill with a silenced pistol and then two superrobosoldiers. When I attack the first, they both start gunning me and a handful of regular soldiers show up as well.

    Tried 4-5-6 times, deemed it impossible and looked for a walkthrough. I prefer text walkthroughs but the ones I found were very vague (take out the 2 big ones first), so I looked at a video tutorial. The fucker used weapons I don't even have and one-shotted the first of the bastards before rocketing the second.

    After some more research, it seems I missed some weapon upgrades in chapters 11 and 12. :/

    That explains some of the difficulty spikes. =D
  • SomaticSense 30 Oct 2017 18:40:51 15,093 posts
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    I feel so torn with this game.

    There are times when the gameplay is simply fantastic, and the writing, cutscene direction, and characterisation are among the best I've experienced in a game. In those moments it's a 9 or even 10/10.

    But man is it the pits sometimes. I'm only just past Roswell and some of the encounter design so far has been straight awful, and the difficulty balance feels almost busted in a few of the set pieces. The courtroom scene for example... who the fuck thought that was good level design? Spawn you in the middle of an arena, no ammo, barely any health, with a bunch of enemies in all directions shooting hitscan weapons at you. And I'm only on normal difficulty.

    It reminds me of that one setpiece in Killzone Shadowfall. I'm sure some of you know the one I mean. Well, this has had three moments like that already, and I'm not even halfway through. It's spoiling what is otherwise a fantastic game.

    Having your character feel like you are made of tissue paper in a game where it encourages you to go full ham with dual-wielding has to be up there among the stupidest design decisions ever.

    Edited by SomaticSense at 18:46:43 30-10-2017
  • askew 30 Oct 2017 18:54:55 15,571 posts
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    Mmm! Just came across a set-piece like that in The Old Blood - when Rudi gets you in the torture chamber.
  • JamboWayOh 30 Oct 2017 19:08:26 3,376 posts
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    @SomaticSense

    That courtroom bit was ridiculous, I had to game the section through a combination of grouping the enemies through the back walkways and save scumming. If quick save wasn't an option I wouldnt be as positive as I am about the game.
  • Furtive_Pygmy 30 Oct 2017 19:30:15 6,394 posts
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    SomaticSense wrote:
    But man is it the pits sometimes. I'm only just past Roswell and some of the encounter design so far has been straight awful, and the difficulty balance feels almost busted in a few of the set pieces. The courtroom scene for example... who the fuck thought that was good level design? Spawn you in the middle of an arena, no ammo, barely any health, with a bunch of enemies in all directions shooting hitscan weapons at you. And I'm only on normal difficulty.
    I did that part a few hours ago, I can't imagine any game tester saying "yep, that was really good, keep it as it is".

    Go knows what the developers were smoking.
  • Furtive_Pygmy 30 Oct 2017 19:32:34 6,394 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    @SomaticSense

    That courtroom bit was ridiculous, I had to game the section through a combination of grouping the enemies through the back walkways and save scumming. If quick save wasn't an option I wouldnt be as positive as I am about the game.
    Lol spot on, I hate that I have to "cheat" by abusing the quicksave like that but these kind of sections would be utterly infuriating without it.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 30 Oct 2017 19:42:58 11,008 posts
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    I was pretty close to buying this but you're not really selling this.
  • JamboWayOh 30 Oct 2017 19:49:45 3,376 posts
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    Decks wrote:
    I was pretty close to buying this but you're not really selling this.
    Despite that it is an exceptionally entertaining experience
  • Malek86 30 Oct 2017 19:52:53 6,318 posts
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    Furtive_Pygmy wrote:
    I did that part a few hours ago, I can't imagine any game tester saying "yep, that was really good, keep it as it is".

    Go knows what the developers were smoking.
    Tbf there have been a whole lot of times in games when I've thought "did anyone even playtest this part?".
  • Darth_Flibble 30 Oct 2017 20:20:59 2,832 posts
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    Sure it was play tested but it was just ignored by the devs. I don't get how any dev thought a number of things in the game was good when it loads better in the last 2 games. The gun fight in the courtroom was a pain even on medium. There is harder difficulties including the hardest where you have no saves or checkpoint and if you die you start at the very beginning of the game. Which gormless pleb of a developer thought that was good idea? (as mentioned there is not much feedback if you get shot)

    Its such a shame its going to put people off the game especially when some publishers are trying to turn games into a service rammed with shitty p2w lootboxes

    edit: there is a "Petition to change the Mein Leben Trophy" wtf some gamers are idiots

    Edited by Darth_Flibble at 20:29:54 30-10-2017
  • Furtive_Pygmy 30 Oct 2017 20:30:03 6,394 posts
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    Darth_Flibble wrote:
    (as mentioned there is not much feedback if you get shot)
    I know we've mentioned this before but I feel I have to emphasise how bad it is, there's almost nothing to indicate you are being hit, that combined with armour that is seemingly made from cotton wool results in many a game over screen.

    Edited by Furtive_Pygmy at 20:31:37 30-10-2017
  • Vortex808 30 Oct 2017 20:36:46 11,690 posts
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    Furtive_Pygmy wrote:
    Darth_Flibble wrote:
    (as mentioned there is not much feedback if you get shot)
    I know we've mentioned this before but I feel I have to emphasise how bad it is, there's almost nothing to indicate you are being hit, that combined with armour that is seemingly made from cotton wool results in many a game over screen.
    Obligatory "git gud" etc
  • Darth_Flibble 30 Oct 2017 21:00:36 2,832 posts
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    Before I posted it off to its new owner, I tried the most easy difficulty and its complete joke how easy it is. One level the enemies were just standing still and you run up to them and just melee to death without them doing anything. Also the commanders that can raise alerts tend to stand together if there is 2
  • Furtive_Pygmy 30 Oct 2017 21:05:13 6,394 posts
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    Vortex808 wrote:
    Furtive_Pygmy wrote:
    Darth_Flibble wrote:
    (as mentioned there is not much feedback if you get shot)
    I know we've mentioned this before but I feel I have to emphasise how bad it is, there's almost nothing to indicate you are being hit, that combined with armour that is seemingly made from cotton wool results in many a game over screen.
    Obligatory "git gud" etc
    I suggest the developers "git gud" at making a game rather than trying to be film makers with their abundant and frankly tedious cinematic cut scenes.
  • UncleLou Moderator 30 Oct 2017 21:12:04 38,786 posts
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    @Furtive_Pygmy Well, 89 on Metacritic. I would say they're "gud" at making a game by all measurable standards.

    I am confused though why you all bought the game, have you not played the first one? I loved it to bits, and this is 100% more of the same.
  • Furtive_Pygmy 30 Oct 2017 21:24:15 6,394 posts
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    @UncleLou

    When I say get good at making a game I mean concentrating on the core aspects of the actual gameplay mechanics. Feedback from combat being a rather important one. I'm not going to blindly accept a high metacritic rating means it's not immune from criticism.

    It is a good game on the whole, but there is a lot that isn't right at all.

    And what the fuck is up with how fast BJ runs when sprinting, it's like Road Runner on coke.

    Edited by Furtive_Pygmy at 21:29:58 30-10-2017
  • Malek86 30 Oct 2017 23:21:15 6,318 posts
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    Furtive_Pygmy wrote:
    And what the fuck is up with how fast BJ runs when sprinting, it's like Road Runner on coke.
    Maybe a throwback to the old Doom school of shooters?
  • Duffking 31 Oct 2017 09:30:22 14,856 posts
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    I'm guessing I'm at the halfway point of this now. It's decent, which is about what I thought of the first. Head and shoulders above the general shooter market these days, but not exactly DOOM. It's also laying it on a little too heavy with the cutscenes. Like the first, I wouldn't mind so much, but the missions in between are often too short.
  • SomaticSense 31 Oct 2017 09:33:00 15,093 posts
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    Vortex808 wrote:
    Furtive_Pygmy wrote:
    Darth_Flibble wrote:
    (as mentioned there is not much feedback if you get shot)
    I know we've mentioned this before but I feel I have to emphasise how bad it is, there's almost nothing to indicate you are being hit, that combined with armour that is seemingly made from cotton wool results in many a game over screen.
    Obligatory "git gud" etc
    Seriously though, it feels less like 'difficult bro!' and more 'critical balancing issues'. It's really quite ridiculous.

    Normal diff can feel at times like a challenge mode. Like DMC's one toouch death for you and enemies. It's really quite stark.
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