UK General Election 2017: Scumbags vs. Clowns Page 109

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  • Saul_Iscariot 19 May 2017 14:07:56 2,951 posts
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    I hope that this works.

    https://www.facebook.com/StudioColibriUK/videos/455027904849853/

    Edited by Saul_Iscariot at 14:08:57 19-05-2017
  • DakeyrasUK 19 May 2017 15:05:04 1,182 posts
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    chopsen wrote:

    Labour are economically protectionist historically, LD strongly aren't.

    Labour strongly agrees with authoritarianism. LD strongly don't.

    Also, PR isn't some magic bullet that would eradicate the tories. They currently have >40% of the popular vote.

    I'm not talking historically here. I'm comparing their manifestos. Do you think them so different that they shouldn't put aside/compromise on their differences (Ok the eu would be tricky) in order to get the majority of what they want?

    They are cutting off their noses to spite their face.

    If they really think the Tories are that bad (as I do) then surely compromise between Green/Lib Dem/ Labour is better than nothing, which they will surely get as noseless splitters.

    I fucking hate the Judean's Peoples Front!
  • DakeyrasUK 19 May 2017 15:09:26 1,182 posts
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    @Saul_Iscariot That is pure gold!
  • Armoured_Bear 19 May 2017 15:11:21 20,472 posts
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    Go Tories!!!!

  • TheSaint 19 May 2017 15:25:05 17,402 posts
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    2007 - 2015 so more go Labour / Con/Lib Coalition.
  • Dougs 19 May 2017 15:44:58 83,763 posts
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    Yeah, an annual breakdown might be more useful
  • Deleted user 19 May 2017 15:48:31
    Dougs wrote:
    Yeah, an annual breakdown might be more useful
    NO. It is UNDENIABLE PROOF that the Tories are evil. I saw TM eyeing up your children to EAT in a PIE.
  • chopsen 19 May 2017 15:53:27 19,941 posts
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    DakeyrasUK wrote:
    chopsen wrote:

    Labour are economically protectionist historically, LD strongly aren't.

    Labour strongly agrees with authoritarianism. LD strongly don't.

    Also, PR isn't some magic bullet that would eradicate the tories. They currently have >40% of the popular vote.

    I'm not talking historically here. I'm comparing their manifestos. Do you think them so different that they shouldn't put aside/compromise on their differences (Ok the eu would be tricky) in order to get the majority of what they want?

    They are cutting off their noses to spite their face.

    If they really think the Tories are that bad (as I do) then surely compromise between Green/Lib Dem/ Labour is better than nothing, which they will surely get as noseless splitters.

    I fucking hate the Judean's Peoples Front!
    That *is* based on their manifestos. Their stance on brexit alone is like night and day so just waving that away because you don't consider it important is not going to work.

    There are those that are like you who put not liking the tories above everything. There are others that don't. And they are the majority by the looks of things. It's just that boo hiss le evil tories is a prominent and socially acceptable view to express. Hence the existence of the shy tory syndrome.

    Apparently a lot of historically labour voters have moved towards voting tory, so no, I don't think there is a broad support for a popular movement which is based exclusively to just keep the tories out because they're tories.

    Edited by chopsen at 15:54:46 19-05-2017
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 19 May 2017 16:08:48 11,020 posts
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    Wait a minute....you're... you're voting Tory aren't you?

  • chopsen 19 May 2017 16:09:48 19,941 posts
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    fuck no
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 19 May 2017 16:14:40 11,020 posts
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    UKIP?

  • Armoured_Bear 19 May 2017 16:18:35 20,472 posts
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    https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/865577364163411968
  • chopsen 19 May 2017 16:20:15 19,941 posts
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    Now you're just being silly..
  • chopsen 19 May 2017 16:20:35 19,941 posts
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    I don't think even UKIP is voting for UKIP any more.
  • Dgzter 19 May 2017 16:25:55 1,531 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/865577364163411968
    Ha! Love it :)
  • Deleted user 19 May 2017 16:32:20
    chopsen wrote:
    I don't think even UKIP is voting for UKIP any more.
    It makes you wonder why they haven't just packed up and gone home. Whomever's bankrolling Nutty "pathological liar" Nuttall must realise that they're throwing good money down the drain. There must be some kind of tax write off behind the scenes, it's the only explanation that makes sense.

    Having said that, I think it was pretty brave (mad?) to base their manifesto on an anti-religious bent, only it didn't go far enough as it only tackled the unpopular bogeyman religion. It's about time our political elite stopped pandering to purveyors of bullshit and concentrate on making real life better.
  • disusedgenius 19 May 2017 16:33:08 8,537 posts
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    Hey, they have two more years of gravy train money to skim.
  • GoatApocalypse 19 May 2017 16:43:10 3,097 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    The Left has an ideological purity problem.

    Which is not to say that elements of the Right do not have these problems. But at least recently they seem to have been better at putting those problems aside to form coalitions and such.
    FPTP encourages these broad churches.

    It's easier for the right to keep their church together as they own the media and the means of production. Their differences tend to be over how far and how fast; not about whether what they're doing is the right thing. UKIP is the Conservative spirit animal - its unrestrained, euphoric, elemental presence.

    It's worth saying that the left has very big disagreements with the liberals. Largely because of the latter's approach to the economy, which is more broadly aligned with the right.

    It seems easy to say that Labour and the Lib Dems should just work together but there are fundamental differences of values that prevent it from happening (those differences aren't there, or aren't as fundamental, between the Libs and the Tories). That's not about ideological purity - it's compromising on the core of what they're about. They're not two sides of the same coin.
  • hedben2013 19 May 2017 16:52:39 498 posts
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    chopsen wrote:

    There are those that are like you who put not liking the tories above everything. There are others that don't. And they are the majority by the looks of things. It's just that boo hiss le evil tories is a prominent and socially acceptable view to express. Hence the existence of the shy tory syndrome.

    Apparently a lot of historically labour voters have moved towards voting tory, so no, I don't think there is a broad support for a popular movement which is based exclusively to just keep the tories out because they're tories.
    This nails something I've been trying to put my finger on for a while. My FB feed gets more rabid each day with poorly sourced, misleading or plain made-up posts attacking the Tories or claiming there's a groundswell of Corbyn support not being reported by the biased BBC. It would be easy to get swept up in all this rhetoric and parrot how all Tories are evil and selfish and how there's a shock coming on June 8th. But I don't see it happening.

    I won't be voting Conservative, but I have good friends at work who'll vote blue because they think it's best for the country, including the country's working class. They're not posting about it on Facebook every day and they're nowhere near as passionate about May's government as Corbyn supporters are about his, but this is the shy/silent majority that will probably lead to the kind of Tory win the polls are predicting.
  • whatfruitlivesagain 19 May 2017 16:56:36 550 posts
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    99.9% of people who post on social media about hating the Tories will never get off their arse and actually do something like canvas or volunteer.

    They just want people to strongly agree with them and tell them their right.

    /cynical bastard.
  • chopsen 19 May 2017 17:01:28 19,941 posts
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    neptunium wrote:
    Whomever's bankrolling Nutty "pathological liar" Nuttall must realise that they're throwing good money down the drain. .
    That'd be Aaron Banks, mainly, and yes there is talk of him setting up a new party.

    Honestly, I don't think it's a tax break or anything like that. He's silly rich and he probably views paying for a political party to fuck things up in the same way you or I would view paying for a cinema ticket.
  • Deleted user 19 May 2017 17:03:21
    Yeah I get the sense a lot of tory supporters vote consistently and as a matter of course, hardly even talking about it. Partly, it has to be said, because a lot of tory policies are simply indefensible.
  • reviewer 19 May 2017 17:19:21 4,747 posts
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    Anyone that thinks Tories are going to do anything good for working class has a strange view of the world.
  • DakeyrasUK 19 May 2017 17:48:35 1,182 posts
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    @chopsen I dont put not liking the tories beyond everything. But I do put all the left parties before the tories. Hence my frustration at the left of centre vote being split. The right is not split so with FPTP I cant see it changing...

    I still havent decided how to vote (will be labour, lib dem or green) not that it matters as i live in tory heartland where the last election had a ridiculous majority where my mp got more than 50% of the vote.

    Fptp also helps instill voter apathy, as my vote means next to fuck all. Doesn't matter if the party I align with gets 5%, 10% and or 30% of the vote, they won't be represented as such.

    I'm also not suggesting PR would rid us of Tory influence. I dont think it is right to. I think compromise is important, maybe essential to bridge the differences in society. With PR we would have to have coalitions to get things done and compromise would have to happen.


    What is often forgotten is post referendum all speeches spoke of the need to bring everyone together due to how close the result was, yet May had flung that out the window and she'll eventually get whats coming. I hope it is sooner rather than later...
  • Mfolf 19 May 2017 18:15:45 1,428 posts
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    Always assumed chopsen was a Tory voter tbh.
  • mothercruncher 19 May 2017 18:24:33 14,111 posts
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    In a climate where it's way too frequent to ask WTF these days, this is a jaw dropping fleshing out of their snooper's charter.
    That's what our democracy needs at the moment- more control of discourse, not less. Fuck you if you support them.
  • Deleted user 19 May 2017 18:52:46
    So they basically want to ruin the internet. Yeah that's sure to entice new business when we leave the EU. The potential of revenue and suppression is too tempting I guess.

    Edited by ViperDrive at 18:53:18 19-05-2017
  • MrFlay 19 May 2017 19:01:02 3,597 posts
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    mothercruncher wrote:
    In a climate where it's way too frequent to ask WTF these days, this is a jaw dropping fleshing out of their snooper's charter.
    That's what our democracy needs at the moment- more control of discourse, not less. Fuck you if you support them.
    Well on your way to a fascist dictatorship. Scary.

    The Conservatives will also seek to regulate the kind of news that is posted online and how companies are paid for it. If elected, Theresa May will "take steps to protect the reliability and objectivity of information that is essential to our democracy" and crack down on Facebook and Google to ensure that news companies get enough advertising money.
    Mrs May has always seem to be attracted to totalitarian solutions.
  • El_MUERkO 19 May 2017 19:14:27 18,259 posts
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    mothercruncher wrote:
    In a climate where it's way too frequent to ask WTF these days, this is a jaw dropping fleshing out of their snooper's charter.
    That's what our democracy needs at the moment- more control of discourse, not less. Fuck you if you support them.
    I'm Irish, I married and English woman and settled here happily, while Brexit would suck a bag of dicks I'd still live here, we're happy here.

    But that'd be the last straw. I will sell up and take my family back to Ireland. No way in hell I'm putting up with Orwellian nonsense like that.
  • macmurphy 19 May 2017 19:22:50 2,510 posts
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    I was in a pub in Essex the other day and two blokes were going at it hammer and tongs from either side of the divide.

    One of them said some very rude things about 'Fackin' Treeza Mayhem.'
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