Has Been Heroes

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  • BigOrkWaaagh 2 Apr 2017 07:54:01 6,816 posts
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    Has anyone else got this or it it just me? It's got fairly, shall we say, middling reviews at best and I feel like I should stick up for it because I'm thoroughly enjoying it, despite still plugging away at my first run. I'll Ctrl & V my thoughts from the Switch thread.

    First impressions with it were generally positive but I could understand where the reviews were coming from. After a few days with it and 20 runs I now don't really get the bad reviews, unless they didn't spend very much time with it.

    At first, the controls feel very clunky and unintuitive. You have to pause the game (if you remember you can do that), look up who is assigned to which button, look at your buttons to see which one matches the hero (thanks to nintendo's arrangement), press it, then do all that again for the next hero. Additionally the mechanics of the game are not immediately clear which will lead to a lot of defeats early on.

    Now that I've had a bit of time with it and I've actually learned how to play properly, I'm really loving it. I still haven't had a successful run, but I can fairly reliably get through the normal battles and it's only the bosses that give me any real trouble, so the comments about a difficulty spike are fair. But again, a lot of it comes down to having to learn how the game plays, if you don't get it you'll lose every time until you do. So far I'm within one victory of beating a run, and I'll keep going because the 'just one more go' feeling is very strong. I really do recommend it if you're willing to put in a bit of effort to learn the ropes and git gud, even though I clearly haven't yet.
  • neems 2 Apr 2017 08:05:12 3,506 posts
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    I've seen a few videos and thought it looked quite interesting, I hadn't realised the Switch version was out. At this point I am actually in serious danger of developing a Switch backlog.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 2 Apr 2017 08:17:22 6,816 posts
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    I got it from the US eshop where it was released last week, EU release was delayed to April 4th I believe. Physical release is Gamestop exclusive because they had a hand in publishing it, or something, which is a huge shame as I wouldn't have minded that version.
  • rice_sandwich 2 Apr 2017 08:31:11 3,269 posts
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    @BigOrkWaaagh

    What about the difficulty spikes that allegedly make some of the levels impossible to complete? Is that a real issue or is it that the reviews perhaps didn't play the game enough to unlock different abilities etc? In some roguelikes things can be extremely hard (but not impossible) until you make certain amounts of progress.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 2 Apr 2017 09:28:07 6,816 posts
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    @rice_sandwich So far the only real spikes I've seen are the bosses. They are a lot harder than the main sections but I have won without any extra pickups so I don't really see them being impossible. It comes down to playing those levels very well, which again you can only realistically do if the game has clicked for you, and if you've tried and failed a few times so you know what's coming. They are still much harder than the main battles but I haven't seen anything yet that I would really call impossible.
  • Malek86 2 Apr 2017 12:09:30 6,334 posts
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    Frozenbyte has been in a rut since Trine 3. I don't know if this will be the game to break it, but the reviews so far don't instill me with confidence.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 2 Apr 2017 20:38:55 6,816 posts
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    Just completed my first run! :D
  • BigOrkWaaagh 4 Apr 2017 13:05:22 6,816 posts
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    I know I'm the only one who cares about this game, but I completed my second run today. I found it easier than the first time round. Although the game adds an extra level, you also get much better and much more stuff to help you out. I found the stuff a lot more necessary this time round however.

    It's out today in the EU, buy it!
  • neems 4 Apr 2017 13:21:19 3,506 posts
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    I suspect I will, but it would be nice to finish something first.
  • rice_sandwich 4 Apr 2017 13:22:41 3,269 posts
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    @BigOrkWaaagh

    What would say are the most enjoyable gameplay mechanics/part of the game? Can you jump in for 10 or 15 minutes or are longer play sessions needed?
  • UncleLou Moderator 4 Apr 2017 13:23:31 38,792 posts
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    @BigOrkWaaagh GameStop have - exclusively - the retail version, and they swap it against any game on their list of second hand games without surcharge here in Germany. Which isn't so bad an offer, but you're the only person so far who doesn't seem to think it's a bit shit! ;-) Mind, you're the only reason I've not written it off completely.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 4 Apr 2017 13:55:33 6,816 posts
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    @rice_sandwich 10-15 minute sessions are definitely possible. Each level from start to boss is probably about 10-20 minutes as a whole depending on how many stops you make. Each individual battle is on a timer of about 2 or 3 minutes, so you can easily visit a few shops, do a battle or two, sleep, then pick up where you left off. There is a 'continue' option in the menu aswell, I guess in case you lose battery.

    The best mechanic is the only mechanic really, it's really a puzzle game in disguise. Each of your guys has 1, 2 or 3 attacks, and each enemy has an amount of stamina, which is how many attacks they can block without taking HP damage. When the stamina is at zero, they become stunned, which means the next attack they receive hits their HP directly.

    As an example, you have an enemy approaching you with 2 stamina. You send your Mage out, who does 2 attacks but almost no damage per attack. He takes all the stamina off the enemy, who is now stunned. Now you switch in a heavy hitter who does one strong attack, and send him out, your enemy loses loads of HP and flies to the back of the approaching mob. Now the next enemy has 3 stamina so switch your heavy out for a rogue who does 3 damage, you send her out and she stuns him, switch your heavy back in and bam he loses HP etc etc etc.

    Of course, all this is over 3 lanes so you have to manage each lane individually. Each lane will have a few enemies with different amounts of HP and stamina which will all reach you at different times. So you have to plan ahead and decide who's going to occupy each lane and when. After every attack you want to be switching somebody else in, and everyone's melee attacks recharge at different speeds too so you have to plan if the guy you want in lane 1 is going to be ready to attack before the enemy gets to him. Across the map are items that give you various boosts and spells that can be very helpful when you're in a tight spot.

    The negative reviews have basically all centred of the fact that it's too hard. And it kind of is at first because all that I've just said isn't really explained to you very well, so the learning curve is steep. Also you're all fingers and thumbs at first because you have to figure out which button controls which hero. I can only assume they played for an hour or two sending people out willy nilly and not getting anywhere, and wrote it off. But once you've got it, it's not hard at all. And I don't say that with snobbery, it just comes naturally, like figuring out where best to place your blocks in Tetris.

    Edited by BigOrkWaaagh at 14:07:48 04-04-2017
  • rice_sandwich 4 Apr 2017 14:04:39 3,269 posts
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    @BigOrkWaaagh

    Thanks, that's a good summary. When you put it like that it sounds quite appealing. I'm a fan of tower defence games and it sounds like its leaning towards those a little bit.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 4 Apr 2017 14:06:32 6,816 posts
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    @rice_sandwich Yes, it's a lot like the original PvZ, but you are a lot more involved in managing the enemy.
  • rice_sandwich 4 Apr 2017 14:24:45 3,269 posts
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    @BigOrkWaaagh

    I'm in. Downloading it now.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 4 Apr 2017 14:27:00 6,816 posts
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    \o/ I've doubled their sales
  • rice_sandwich 4 Apr 2017 14:33:02 3,269 posts
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    It's more that I remembered that I decided to make the Switch my primary gaming platform, so I might as well but stuff for it that looks interesting.

    I'm easing back on gaming and only looking to play complicated strategy games and management/tycoon sims on pc from now on. It'll be Switch for everything else as I have little interest in 3rd party AAA stuff. It's much more comfortable to sit in the living room etc. with the Switch.
  • rice_sandwich 4 Apr 2017 14:50:07 3,269 posts
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    The font is tiny. I'm going to have to play on the gamepad.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 4 Apr 2017 14:54:43 6,816 posts
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    @rice_sandwich How small is your TV/how far away are you? I never struggled to read it!
  • rice_sandwich 4 Apr 2017 15:13:00 3,269 posts
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    About 4m-5m away on a 42/46/48? tv. Anyway, I've played a couple of battles and my initial impressions are that it's pretty good. It basically looks like a turn based tower defence game. I'm using the pause a lot to figure out attacks.
  • rice_sandwich 4 Apr 2017 15:22:49 3,269 posts
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    Beaten by the first boss. I almost had him but then he touched one of my heroes and that was it for some reason.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 4 Apr 2017 15:31:21 6,816 posts
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    @rice_sandwich Which boss did you get?
  • rice_sandwich 4 Apr 2017 15:37:57 3,269 posts
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    It was a skeleton, I think. Just lost the second run on the second battle. One column had loads of enemies and overwhelmed my guys. Looks like you lose as soon as an enemy touches one of your heroes (maybe if they aren't ready?)

    The tutorial isn't great but from playing for 30 minutes I'd call it at least a 7/10 if you like tower defence games. Not a bad game at all.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 4 Apr 2017 15:50:35 6,816 posts
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    rice_sandwich wrote:
    It was a skeleton, I think. Just lost the second run on the second battle. One column had loads of enemies and overwhelmed my guys. Looks like you lose as soon as an enemy touches one of your heroes (maybe if they aren't ready?)

    The tutorial isn't great but from playing for 30 minutes I'd call it at least a 7/10 if you like tower defence games. Not a bad game at all.
    They're all skeletons! :)

    There is one boss who sends loads of ghosts out who I believe kills you in one hit. He is probably the easiest boss to kill, but only if you know a certain trick that I'll let you figure out for yourself. He is not easy at all the first few times.

    Your guys will probably die if they have no stamina (the green boxes by their health bars). If a strong enemy hits your mage 3 times he will likely die as he only has one stamina.

    Edited by BigOrkWaaagh at 15:51:12 04-04-2017
  • rice_sandwich 4 Apr 2017 16:01:30 3,269 posts
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    Lost again on the first boss. He had a purple headband. At one point there were fourteen enemies on screen. I killed loads but it seems easy to be overwhelmed. I need to pay more attention to the stamina rules and stuff. When it unlocks stuff does that mean it has a chance to appear in game as a collectible item?
  • BigOrkWaaagh 4 Apr 2017 16:07:56 6,816 posts
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    He's the worst one. It's either him or the one I mentioned earlier on the first level. I don't really have any advice for beating him aside from git gud. And by that I mean once you have the mechanics down to a science you should be able to sort him out quite handily, I don't think there's anything really special about him other than he has an awful lot of stamina and HP.

    Re unlockables, yes. :)
  • BigOrkWaaagh 4 Apr 2017 16:13:39 6,816 posts
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    @rice_sandwich Oh, also. Don't forget your spells. The rogue's starting spell is a lot more useful than it might first appear. Also the fireball will cause insta-stun and cause lasting splash damage if there is a mob (but it will also hurt you if you attack while they are on fire).

    Edited by BigOrkWaaagh at 16:13:48 04-04-2017
  • rice_sandwich 4 Apr 2017 16:22:53 3,269 posts
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    Yeah, I've been using the spells a lot. Lost again on the first boss but the game definitely has that 'one more go' appeal. It is pretty tough although I don't think I'd call it unfair. I'm really enjoying it so far.
  • rice_sandwich 4 Apr 2017 19:15:02 3,269 posts
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    Ten games played and zero wins against the first boss. The one with the butterfly hat seems a bit easier. Played about 3 hours so far and I'm getting a bit better at it. I've got the stamina and hits system down now. It's pretty much a puzzle game at heart. More people should buy it, it's good! (but tough!!!).
  • rice_sandwich 4 Apr 2017 19:53:01 3,269 posts
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    Best the first boss (butterfly hat). Lost quickly on the second region. This is gonna take a while!
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