The Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild

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  • the_milkybar_kid 1 Feb 2017 11:48:01 5,408 posts
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    Couldn't find a thread on an categories and it seems strange not having a thread for the second most anticipated Switch game next to 1-2 Switch.

    It's the first Zelda game since Majora's Mask I'm really looking forward to playing but the size of the map concerns me. Zelda over-worlds haven't been exciting places to explore, so I hope they've managed to find a way of making a map of this size an interesting place to traverse. I don't expect it to be brimming with life given the clue in the title, but having enough in there to make it interesting at the very least.

  • DangerousDave_87 1 Feb 2017 11:55:35 1,821 posts
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    Zelda maps haven't been exciting places to explore? This may be true of the 3D entries, but the original Zelda, along with A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening had brilliant maps. They were literally the most appealing aspects of those games.

    I remember as a kid wanting to explore every single area/screen. For the latter two games you had maps to refer to, which kindly teased areas you hadn't seen yet, whilst the original game was a pleasure just piecing together a mental map of the game. One in which you'd remember chunks of it, but you'd still have to figure out how those chunks all glued together.

    Figuring all that stuff out in the original game is one of my fondest gaming memories and I hope Breath of the Wild follows in those footsteps.
  • DFawkes Friendliest Forumite, 2016 1 Feb 2017 11:56:07 31,071 posts
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    I hope they have boats in it. I quite liked sailing about in a boat in Wind Waker, so a little optional sailing would be nice at some point. Maybe some fishing too.

    I'm mostly going dark on this though as I don't want to learn too much. It certainly seems like more of a return to the original LoZ, where you're pretty much plonked onto a map and you just get on with it. To be honest I missed the cave with the Sword the first few times I played that :p
  • DangerousDave_87 1 Feb 2017 11:57:04 1,821 posts
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    Also, was Wind Waker really smaller than Ocarina of Time? I find that hard to believe. I got sick of how large Wind Waker felt (I had played the smaller Phantom Hourglass first, I suppose).
  • elstoof 1 Feb 2017 11:58:41 18,125 posts
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    I guess they're talking about landmass in WW

    Edited by elstoof at 11:58:49 01-02-2017
  • Deleted user 1 February 2017 12:03:38
    DangerousDave_87 wrote:
    Also, was Wind Waker really smaller than Ocarina of Time? I find that hard to believe. I got sick of how large Wind Waker felt
    If you took out all the ocean and smooshed all of the islands together (along with the space for dungeons etc.) there is no way that OoT is bigger than Wind Waker. The infographic creator has a questionable methodology fo'sho'.
  • the_milkybar_kid 1 Feb 2017 12:04:26 5,408 posts
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    DangerousDave_87 wrote:
    Zelda maps haven't been exciting places to explore? This may be true of the 3D entries, but the original Zelda, along with A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening had brilliant maps. They were literally the most appealing aspects of those games.
    That's why I stopped myself at saying 'traditionally' they haven't been exciting. The 2d ones in particular are great to mince around in, but by comparison they were relatively compact. But as the maps got bigger, there's next to nothing in them. I'm hoping it's something resembling Witcher 3 where there's lots of empty space, but it all makes sense, doesn't feel like someone's just designed it and there's plenty of things to happen upon.

    Edited by the_milkybar_kid at 12:05:57 01-02-2017
  • DangerousDave_87 1 Feb 2017 12:06:11 1,821 posts
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    @the_milkybar_kid It's a genuine concern, but I feel it's a mistake Nintendo wont make. They did get a lot of help from Monolith Soft, who managed to justify the insanely large world that was Xenoblade Chronicles X.
  • the_milkybar_kid 1 Feb 2017 12:07:47 5,408 posts
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    @DangerousDave_87 I wasn't aware of that. Good to hear. I sold my Wii U before Xenoblade came out but I'd be interested to try the sequel, it's got a beautiful art style.
  • DangerousDave_87 1 Feb 2017 12:10:33 1,821 posts
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    @the_milkybar_kid As am I. As much as I love Xenoblade Chronicles X, I much prefer the original and from what we've seen of 2, it seems to be more similar to that one.
  • Derblington 1 Feb 2017 12:20:15 28,612 posts
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    Wasn't the help from Monolith tech related (how you build an open world) rather than design related (how you populate an open world).
  • JiveHound 1 Feb 2017 12:20:47 7,978 posts
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    That map is in serious danger of being way too big.

    I'm hoping it's not, Nintendo are master craftsmen but they have bitten off a lot with this. I hope they have strong teeth.
  • Deleted user 1 February 2017 12:25:35
    DangerousDave_87 wrote:
    Zelda maps haven't been exciting places to explore? This may be true of the 3D entries, but the original Zelda, along with A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening had brilliant maps. They were literally the most appealing aspects of those games.
    Agreed with the above. Every "screen" in a 2D Zelda game had secrets to uncover - there was very little/no "filler". I only wish they could recreate this feeling in the 3D world. I think they succeeded to some extent in WW by sectioning off the overworld into their own discrete areas, but the concept fell flat with all the sailing/wind direction malarkey (and I don't know how those few people unfortunate enough to not learn the Ballad of Gales coped - they must've been suicidal) which they partially resolved in WWHD with the Swift Sail.

    Making a huge overworld is only impressive if you can do it without it being just filler, and then you risk it being too overwhelming.
  • DangerousDave_87 1 Feb 2017 12:34:13 1,821 posts
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    @Derblington It'll mostly be the former, but then they seem to be very smart about how they design their open worlds. Performance has never really impacted the design of their worlds. There's a few routes between continents on XCX which allow for a smoother transition of visuals, but there's never any open areas with nothing going on (for the purpose of breaking up more detailed and performance heavy areas). It's something a number of open worlds are guilty of, and it's certainly something Nintendo would likely do if Monolith Soft weren't helping them out from a technical perspective.

    I dunno. Maybe i'm just chatting bananas.
  • Daryoon 1 Feb 2017 12:45:26 5,755 posts
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    This is a better comparison



    The WW map is 7km x 7km.
  • Derblington 1 Feb 2017 12:48:59 28,612 posts
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    each comparison shows two very different sizes.
  • Daryoon 1 Feb 2017 12:53:28 5,755 posts
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    It's the Internet, somebody figured out the actual map size using convoluted mathematical reasoning...

    https://www.reddit.com/r/zelda/comments/5olf6h/oc_i_fixed_my_zelda_map_size_comparison_graphic/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Breath_of_the_Wild/comments/5amsmj/analyzing_botw_map_size_cad_approach_google_earth/

    Edited by Daryoon at 12:56:21 01-02-2017
  • Mfolf 1 Feb 2017 13:12:14 864 posts
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    All the videos I've seen have involved completely empty locations. I have very high hopes but there is the fear that it will be like the old flat Zelda where you have a few filler screens of grass and pathway before you got to something interesting. But this will be the equivalent of 50+ empty screens before anything happens.
  • DFawkes Friendliest Forumite, 2016 1 Feb 2017 13:20:32 31,071 posts
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    I've largely tried to avoid videos, but thankfully all the ones I've seen (mostly the earlier ones) have been pretty encouraging. There is always something close to get on with, with very little in the way of featureless nothingless. Of course, that isn't really that meaningful as they'd hardly put out videos of the emptier parts of the map.

    As long as your get the traversal gadgets and Epona fairly early it shouldn't be too bad :)
  • Graxlar_v2 1 Feb 2017 13:28:02 6,607 posts
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    I read an article that said Nintendo started with an empty map and then added stuff to do by playing it and spotting areas where it was a little empty.
  • the_milkybar_kid 1 Feb 2017 13:29:05 5,408 posts
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    @Mfolf They did say they've purposely stayed off showing too much . Most of the stuff has been shown in the Great Plains so hopefully it's just that.

    Edited by the_milkybar_kid at 13:40:41 01-02-2017
  • Mfolf 1 Feb 2017 13:32:37 864 posts
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    Graxlar_v2 wrote:
    I read an article that said Nintendo started with an empty map and then added stuff to do by playing it and spotting areas where it was a little empty.
    That's pretty cool if so.
  • JoelStinty 1 Feb 2017 13:32:37 5,452 posts
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    I was reading gaf earlier and someone brought up some of the play tests that the dev team have done (from interviews)

    Apparently after the end of each major dev milestone they would sit down for a week and play the game, in which they would track testers routes through the world and tweaked the environment/gameworld on those sessions.

    edit: Grax beat me by a few minutes. Bastard.

    Edited by JoelStinty at 14:06:35 01-02-2017
  • Zomoniac 1 Feb 2017 13:45:41 9,283 posts
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    Daryoon wrote:
    It's the Internet, somebody figured out the actual map size using convoluted mathematical reasoning...

    https://www.reddit.com/r/zelda/comments/5olf6h/oc_i_fixed_my_zelda_map_size_comparison_graphic/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Breath_of_the_Wild/comments/5amsmj/analyzing_botw_map_size_cad_approach_google_earth/
    That first link says the Wind Waker map is 1.8x1.8km.

    If that's the case then I can casually walk about triple the speed of that boat, even with the fast sail.
  • DFawkes Friendliest Forumite, 2016 1 Feb 2017 14:03:19 31,071 posts
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    He has an amended one if you read the whole post that has it at roughly 6km squared, which feels about right. He doesn't outright replace the first one as he feels that is too big, but there's no way his original one was right. It would've had Lon Lon Ranch in Ocarina about as big as some of the larger WW islands!

    Edited by DFawkes at 14:07:20 01-02-2017
  • Rivuzu 1 Feb 2017 15:00:18 15,975 posts
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    Soooo this is going to be my first Zelda game. I've always put off playing the others, mostly because of not owning the right console, but even when I did I was just a bit meh. I feel like I've played so many other Zelda like games that playing an ACTUAL Zelda game would have been disappointing.

    Still, this looks fun.

    I look forwards to setting fire to basically everything.
  • Derblington 1 Feb 2017 15:09:19 28,612 posts
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    There actually aren't many other games that really play like Zelda. There's a feel to them that gets lost.
  • Daryoon 1 Feb 2017 15:32:22 5,755 posts
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    Graxlar_v2 wrote:
    I read an article that said Nintendo started with an empty map and then added stuff to do by playing it and spotting areas where it was a little empty.
    I think this is where they had Monolith helping them out.
  • Rivuzu 1 Feb 2017 16:22:34 15,975 posts
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    Derblington wrote:
    There actually aren't many other games that really play like Zelda. There's a feel to them that gets lost.
    Wouldn't know anything about that, but if you're talking about "Go here, clear this area, get the tool to go to the next area" mechanic I've been briefed was so prevalent in early Zelda games at least, there is a metric fuckton of those.

    Proof in the pudding and all that. Though this looks a bit Skyrim-esque, which is cool.
  • Carlo 1 Feb 2017 16:24:38 19,755 posts
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    I'm playing through Wind Waker with the kids, so it being that small sort of cheers me up a bit!

    It's all in the details anyway right? The map size doesn't man a hell of a lot.
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