Nioh Page 161

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  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 23 Dec 2017 22:31:41 2,433 posts
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    Beaten all missions and side-missions in the third region now. "Greater Demon Hunting" was a bit of a bastard, as the boss could easily one-shot me, but at least there were plenty of bloody graves around to charge my Living Weapon from. Got it down in the end through a mix of caution, long-range high-stance strikes and Sloth Talisman/Living Weapon when it hit 30%.

    I'm liking this, but it's missing a little of the Dark Souls magic. In particular, I never really get that "breakthrough moment" feeling on bosses I got in the first two Dark Souls games, Bloodborne and The Surge. It's still fun, though.
  • Mr_Sleep 23 Dec 2017 22:50:38 21,462 posts
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    Sloth is a monster spell, it was boderline broken until they patched it but it is still ace.

    I know what you mean about lacking the Souls touch, something about the world building and lack of enemy variety will mean it never quite reaches those heights but the combat is the best of anything. I really must return and finish off the DLC at some point.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 23 Dec 2017 22:55:25 2,433 posts
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    @Mr_Sleep It doesn't help that the whole story is basically a load of Sengoku wankery that seems to endlessly fascinate the Japanese, but which is basically impenetrable to anybody who hasn't studied a shitload of Japanese history.

    The combat's not bad. It's got more of a twitch-style to it than most Soulslikes. But I think the trade-off for that is a slight lack of depth. I'd love to see a sequel to this with more enemy and environment types (and preferably a single continuous world, rather than a mission-based structure).
  • Mr_Sleep 23 Dec 2017 23:00:50 21,462 posts
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    True, the story is pretty dull from start to finish and there is little to explore in the way of plotting or lore. I did learn some Japanese history, sort of, so that us something.

    You could be right about depth, the strict weapon choices and lkmited repertoire does reduce the possibilities but it is hard for me to iudge that as I have played it through three times and am pretty deep in the end game and DLC stuff so it obviously as enough for me. I think the firearms and ninjitsu do set it apart from souls somewhat as those are both cack and borderlime unusable in souslike games.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 23 Dec 2017 23:07:30 2,433 posts
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    @Mr_Sleep Depends. I've had highly viable caster builds in Demon's Souls (where they were OP), Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2. I've always thought of non-magical ranged attacks are more utility/pull tools than a viable style in the Souls games, but the same seems to be mostly true for Nioh (though you can use it to kill enemy archers, I guess).

    I'd just like to see a bit more potential for the slightly out-there builds you can do in the Souls games (except DS3). To be honest, this actually puts me in mind of DS3 quite a lot. It's well tuned and the combat is sharp, but some of the magic isn't there.

    I do like that it makes less use of i-frames than DS3 and Bloodborne (if From Software do another Soulslike, they should go no i-frames, as a counterpoint to Bloodborne's no shields). It might be interesting to see it go even further and reduce them to almost-none, like The Surge. In strict combat-style terms, The Surge is probably the closest Soulslike to this, though Nioh does have useful blocking, which The Surge doesn't.
  • RelaxedMikki 23 Dec 2017 23:21:50 2,349 posts
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    Yup. Agree with all the above.

    Combat is peerless. The hit boxes feel pretty much pixel perfect. And, without wanting to get too "neogaf" about it, 60 frames per second makes such a difference.

    But... the environments are bland, 'gamey' and repetitive, the story elements feel
    disconnected and inconsequential, the loot could be reduced by a factor of 10, and the way levelling works ties you into limited weapon choices.

    Still a beautiful game though.
  • FuzzyDucky 24 Dec 2017 18:10:12 2,733 posts
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    Halp!

    Picked this up again after having it near launch... Picking up my save I'm in the fifth region... I've also gone for the season pass. Everything is activated from the PSN store and the game is up to date. It says that the first one is in the north of the country but I ain't seeing it...
  • Magpie1862 24 Dec 2017 20:12:02 11 posts
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    Post deleted
  • Duffking 26 Dec 2017 15:20:55 15,144 posts
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    So I got this a couple of days ago and done the first proper mission. Boss took a couple of goes.

    I get that it's trying to do the dark souls thing of feeling out the right or wrong way to go by putting much stronger enemies in certain directions, but it doesn't feel all that intuitive when both possible directions seem to have stuff that 1 hit kills me anyway.

    Is that normal? Like I went back into that first stage and went into a side cave near the start and promptly got one shot killed by a Demon. I feel like the game probably wants me to level up a lot, probably every time I open a short cut up?

    Also not sure where to start with ninja skill points, supposedly I can increase the shuriken count I currently have but I wasn't aware I had any yet anyway...
  • UncleLou Moderator 26 Dec 2017 15:42:06 38,992 posts
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    @Duffking "Like I went back into that first stage and went into a side cave near the start and promptly got one shot killed by a Demon."

    What do you mean, the Twilight mission?

    Usually, you're supposed to (be able to) kill anything in a mission. There's no "come back later" stuff within one level.

    As for the ninja skills, don't forget to scroll down to get an overview of what's available. You want the "stealth kill from behind" asap.

    The shurikens are something you can prepare at the shrines, don't remember if you need another skill as prerequisite, I never used them.
  • Duffking 26 Dec 2017 16:17:58 15,144 posts
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    @UncleLou I'll have a look for that one

    By going back I mean that there was a new mission I could do at the same place as the first mission I did (listed as level 10) as well as mission 2 elsewhere.
  • UncleLou Moderator 26 Dec 2017 17:02:42 38,992 posts
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    @Duffking Ah, I see. I just worked through all the side and main misisons one after another based on their level.
  • GarlVinland 27 Dec 2017 10:10:30 2,425 posts
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    @Duffking aside from the 'backstab' skill UncleLou mentioned, the quick-change ninjutsu skill is incredibly useful, it grants you a one-time revive upon death and you can eventually have up to 3, and it gets refreshed at shrines. Also if you're going to be speccing into ninjutsu at all, make sure to increase your capacity (very bottom right of the menu) so you can carry more skills, or space runs out quickly.

    Kunai are better versions of shuriken, but both do piss poor damage unless you spec heavily into it so I wouldn't bother.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 27 Dec 2017 21:48:26 2,433 posts
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    So I'm back into this. Just got Giant Toad down. Pretty easy - got him on the first try. Doesn't have any moves we haven't seen before in Souls games. Also did the Warrior and Onmyo Mage Veteran missions at the Dojo.

    I'm guessing I want to stay in set-bonus equipment for the most part, as the set bonuses seem absolutely devastating. I've been using Warrior of the West gear, nabbing upgrades from Bloody Graves. Seems to be working so far.

    Edited by Rogueywon at 21:52:49 27-12-2017
  • GarlVinland 28 Dec 2017 09:19:33 2,425 posts
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    Always set bonus, all the time. And when you reach NG+, nab the accessory that lowers all set bonus requirements by one ASAP, then wear more set bonuses at a time!

    Warrior of the West and Red Demon is 90% of what you'll see for most of NG, but eventually the number of sets balloons, and again drastically in NG+4.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 28 Dec 2017 10:30:17 2,433 posts
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    @GarlVinland Yeah, some of those set bonuses are amazing. I'm paying much more attention to those and to Guardian Spirits this time around.

    One other question: I'm still using the very first Guardian Spirit (I picked the fire-dog one), because the Ki and Attack bonuses from it actually seem better than those from any of the other Guardian Spirits I've acquired. Am I missing something here?
  • GarlVinland 28 Dec 2017 10:55:56 2,425 posts
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    @Rogueywon Depends on your playstyle. Kato, the fire dog, remains one of the best GS because of the extra skill damage it grants, so if you use things like Iai often it can be a huge boost. Other excellent ones are;

    - Enko, from beating the Red Demon spear guy in his sub-mission. Grants extra grapple and strong attack damage.
    - Tengen the peacock, from beating Oda Nobunaga near the end of the game. Grants extra elemental attack damage.
    - Suzaku the fire bird, from beating the sexy gun bandit guy, it automatically puts you into Living Weapon if your amrita gauge is full and your HP drops to 0.
    - Kara Jishi the lion, from beating Shima Sakon, grants an extra ~60(!)% damage for a brief time after landing a skill.
    - Aya komori the bat, from a sub-mission in the first region, grants bonus damage when attacking from behind.

    You can equip a second guardian spirit in NG+ which gives you one of it's passives, and lets you switch between them at will. Definitely worth paying attention to all of their buffs because some can mean huge damage boosts, just make sure you have a high enough level of Spirit to activate them.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 28 Dec 2017 21:42:03 2,433 posts
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    And that's Ogress down. Might just be me, but while the boss wasn't too bad, I found that mission a big step up in terms of difficulty. The first time I've really struggled with this game since switching to PC.
  • FuzzyDucky 29 Dec 2017 04:06:00 2,733 posts
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    Dunno if I can continue with this. I'm mopping up the 4th region (and have done a bit of the 5th) and everything feels like a chore.

    Anything other than a fast build feels like suicide, but I'm getting pretty bored getting one and two-shotted. Plus the builds/weapons take an eternity to upgrade and experiment with, plus I've been using the same gear for what seems like another eternity.

    Oh and I picked up the season pass in the sale and sure all the content is end game...

    Edit - maybe I shouldn't be trying to play this at 4am after a night on the razz 🤔😁🤔

    Edited by FuzzyDucky at 04:06:54 29-12-2017
  • UncleLou Moderator 29 Dec 2017 10:55:49 38,992 posts
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    GarlVinland wrote:
    @Duffking aside from the 'backstab' skill UncleLou mentioned, the quick-change ninjutsu skill is incredibly useful, it grants you a one-time revive upon death and you can eventually have up to 3.
    Wait, what is this you're talking about? A one-time revive? Where!? :)

    edit: Found it now. Bloody hell, never knew this.

    Edited by UncleLou at 11:10:49 29-12-2017
  • shamblemonkee 29 Dec 2017 12:20:01 17,759 posts
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    @UncleLou now enjoy dying while trying to cast this, instead of dying trying to fight :p
  • bighairybear65 29 Dec 2017 12:33:31 210 posts
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    Nioh vs Bloodborne vs Dark Souls 3?

    Which is best?
    Which order would you play above games in?

    (Considering I've never played any dark souls games)

    Eh? 🤔
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 29 Dec 2017 12:36:32 2,433 posts
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    @bighairybear65 The first Dark Souls is still the best. But of the three titles you mention, my ordering would go (from best to worst): Bloodborne > Nioh > Dark Souls 3.
  • UncleLou Moderator 29 Dec 2017 12:44:37 38,992 posts
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    bighairybear65 wrote:
    Nioh vs Bloodborne vs Dark Souls 3?

    Which is best?
    Which order would you play above games in?

    (Considering I've never played any dark souls games)

    Eh? 🤔
    Can't go wrong with any of those. I probably like DS3 best simply because I prefer the setting (and I do like shields, mind). Both Bloodborne and DS3 have much better level design than Nioh, but Nioh is just so damn ... playable. And it has random loot.

    Honestly, I'd prpbably make it depend on the setting you prefer - the more medieval Dark Souls, the more Gothic Bloodborne, or old Japan in Nioh. It's as good a criterion to pick one of the three as any. :)

    Edited by UncleLou at 12:45:48 29-12-2017
  • GarlVinland 29 Dec 2017 13:28:58 2,425 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    GarlVinland wrote:
    @Duffking aside from the 'backstab' skill UncleLou mentioned, the quick-change ninjutsu skill is incredibly useful, it grants you a one-time revive upon death and you can eventually have up to 3.
    Wait, what is this you're talking about? A one-time revive? Where!? :)

    edit: Found it now. Bloody hell, never knew this.
    And get the 'instant cast of ninjutsu' mystic art too if you can, so you don't get killed immediately after being revived. :)

    Also, it's creaky but Dark Souls 1 is still the greatest game of all time IMO. Bloodborne is a close second. Nioh has far better combat but the world just isn't as interesting to explore, and consequently can become a bit of a chore to play because the loot system isn't great either, so you're really just playing it for the combat.

    The developers just this week said they'd want to expand Nioh further if they could. More DLC with more weapons and useful skills would be huge!
  • nickthegun 29 Dec 2017 14:51:03 72,328 posts
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    I'm coming up to the end (I think) of my first BB playthrough and I do think I prefer Nioh but a lot of that is thanks to it having 2 years worth of improvements and refinements under its belt (namely the camera and scenery don't constant try to kill you in Nioh).

    But, yes, they are pretty different. The best things about Nioh are the worst things about BB and vice versa.

    Edited by nickthegun at 14:51:29 29-12-2017
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 29 Dec 2017 18:47:33 2,433 posts
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    So... any good tips for fighting those bird-demon guys? Most of the other demon enemies I've met so far, I've basically got figured and can usually kill quite efficiently without using consumables. One of those bird-guys, though, and I'm usually popping a couple of Elixirs and Sloth Talismans.

    Are they just harder than everything else I've met so far, or am I missing a trick?
  • nickthegun 29 Dec 2017 18:59:14 72,328 posts
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    They are probably the hardest regular enemy, imho. You just have to take your time and not get greedy.

    Invest in a few magic points and get the sloth spell and/or run a weapon with lightning to slow him down.

    Bait the punch, kick combo and land a heavy or a couple of lights then immediately hold block.

    He's one of the enemies that convinced me to abandon my heavy axe build because he was absolutely rinsing me until I went down to my pants and katana. You are just too slow to get anything as I don't think you can stagger the bastard.

    Edited by nickthegun at 19:00:44 29-12-2017
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 29 Dec 2017 19:04:32 2,433 posts
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    @nickthegun Cheers, that's useful. I've got quite high magic skill and sloth talismans are godly, but I'm certainly finding these guys a struggle. Good to know that, if nothing else, they're about as hard as regular enemies get.
  • Rajin 29 Dec 2017 19:38:42 753 posts
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    Are the three dlc combined worth it? Been thinking of buying them but I am unsure whether they add enough to make it worth the cost.
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