Nioh Page 2

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  • grassyknoll 29 Apr 2016 17:35:46 619 posts
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    @OllyJ There's definitely a weapon, the glowing yellow thing. You have to pick it up & equip it. Watch a small tutorial first, as you loved Ninja Gaiden, you'll definitely enjoy this.
  • grassyknoll 29 Apr 2016 17:41:06 619 posts
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    I'm honestly blown away by this demo, there's definitely things that need changing (durability, weapon drops need reducing, a complete tutorial, better hitboxes for grabs) but the core game is fantastic. Customization is just incredible as well.
  • OllyJ 29 Apr 2016 18:19:40 3,886 posts
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    Rivuzu wrote:
    Because you need to use your eyes?

    I see, I see. :(
    It wasn't clear to me, it's just not really my kind of game. which is fine.
  • Bahamafish 29 Apr 2016 21:39:06 538 posts
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    grassyknoll wrote:
    @OllyJ There's definitely a weapon, the glowing yellow thing. You have to pick it up & equip it. Watch a small tutorial first, as you loved Ninja Gaiden, you'll definitely enjoy this.
    I loved ninja gaiden black for the original xbox, but this game is not similar at all. The combat and movement is super stiff compared to NG.
  • Dr.Haggard 29 Apr 2016 21:45:29 4,583 posts
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    I quite enjoyed it. It's ugly, the animations aren't great, the camera did my head in and worst of all I hate the weightlessness of it all, but it's in alpha and if at least some of that stuff improves I could see myself getting quite into it.

    As far as bare-faced souls ripoffs go I preferred the setting of Lords of the Fallen, but if the story/writing is good this could be really interesting (a jellyfish with a laptop could do better than Lords of the Fallen in that regard, but of course the souls games on the other hand are a high bar indeed).

    Hopefully there'll be another demo nearer release.

    Maybe it'll even scratch that Jade Empire itch :)
  • Tomo 29 Apr 2016 23:51:53 15,543 posts
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    Not a Souls player and unsurprisingly finding this rather difficult. Tbh, it's not for me but there is something compelling about edging through the level getting beyond where you just fell and figuring out the best path there.

    My 30 minutes have gone like this:

    -Oh he has a sword and I have fists... Dead
    -Maybe I can pull a sword out of the red glow... Dead
    -Ohhhh, you start with a sword but need to equip it... *grumble*... Where's the tutorial.
    -OK, sword out, this time I'll take that guy out... Run out of stamina mashing square... Dead
    -Easy does it... Killed him! Huzzah!
    -Next guy with spear... Dead
    -Kill guy with spear... Meet a pair of enemies... Dead
    -Attempt different stance... Dead
    -Try to use lock in system, somehow end up with back to enemy, insta... Dead
    -Get chased by three baddies... Dead x 5
    -Conserve stamina and swipe 3 baddies carefully to bring them down. Enter Hut... Dead
    -Take on 3 baddies again, not quite perfected... Dead x 3
    -Get past 3 baddies and man in hut. Walk up hill and meet a some bastard with actual AI programmed into him... Dead.
    -Try again. Dead
    -And again. Dead
    -And aga... FUCK IT.
    -Switch off PS4
  • grassyknoll 30 Apr 2016 07:45:49 619 posts
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    @Bahamafish It's more controlled as you don't have a jump & your heavily armoured, but if you use Ki Pulse correctly you're basically can play like Ninja Gaiden.
  • funkstar 30 Apr 2016 09:29:30 3,210 posts
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    @grassyknoll can you explain how ki pulse works please?
  • grassyknoll 30 Apr 2016 09:40:03 619 posts
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    @funkstar When you finish a combo you can recover all the stamina back by pressing R1 or changing stance when the blue particle effects surround your character (you'll see the stamina you've used turn blue in the stamina bar). It's about half a second after you've performed it.
  • Tomo 30 Apr 2016 09:53:20 15,543 posts
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    Omg. I had no idea about that. Think I'll actually give it another go later. Have woken up thinking about this game, so it's managed to get its claws into me somewhat.

    This exactly why it needs a tutorial and is a bit shortsighted on the devs part - not telling you the moves available to you, thus inadvertently making it even harder, is really going to limit progression.
  • nickthegun 30 Apr 2016 09:54:17 71,645 posts
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    Its weird. Ive never really played the souls games, so its all a bit intense for me. I also need a bigger tv as everything is tiny.

    But, yeah, I did exactly the same as other people. Ran around pressing buttons and then got caned by the first guy because I didnt know to equip my sword.

    Once equipped, I killed him pretty easily, got cocky and resurrected one of the dead guys on the ground, who are input reading shitfucks and kill me instantly.

    Only played about 20 minutes but it seems pretty cool. Its going to take some getting used to, though.
  • Tomo 30 Apr 2016 09:55:30 15,543 posts
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    Ahh, that's it. Input reading, yes, it certainly felt like that. And a bit cheap.
  • nickthegun 30 Apr 2016 22:05:52 71,645 posts
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    Jeez, is this what a souls game is like, then? Its less that its hard, more that its just a fucking chore. Its a memory test to remember where people are going to jump out from and if you take a hit early on, you may as well, just go back to the shrine as there are bugger all chance of completing a run.

    And the KI management is fucking ridiculous. Goad an enemy into attacking, dodge, strike a couple of times, run away, goad enemy into attacking, strike a couple of times...

    Its so weird... I can see what they are trying to do and there seems to be a really good game lurking under there but its just a slog to get through it. Its like a feudal rick dangerous.

    Anyway... I know a *lot* of people have sacked this off after ten minutes so here are my top tips:

    - theres a sword on the beach. equip it.
    - if you die, the fox thing guards your dropped experience points, grab that when you can or lose it forever
    - the axe in medium stance kills a lot of enemies in one combo
    - hit R1 after any combo
    - when you get them, you can use ninja stars to lure an enemy away from a group and kill them individually, because they are stupid


    So... yeah... I can see what they are trying to do and I enjoyed it a lot more as I got better. I was able to actually intentionally drain the stamina of enemies and leave them there panting like a fat kid, but its still a bit of a faff. Anyone who tries to play it like ninja gaiden (like I did) will die immediately because it really wants you to duel with them rather than roll them over like meat sacks.

    Finished the demo but im not 100% sold unless a few things change.
  • SomaticSense 30 Apr 2016 22:10:31 15,057 posts
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    It's a fair bit more punishing than a Souls game. A lot more in fact.

    I've beaten all the Souls games and feel like I'm pretty competent at them, and yet I never even made it to the second shrine in this. Or opened the shortcut. It's several leagues more brutal.
  • nickthegun 30 Apr 2016 22:21:00 71,645 posts
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    Having *all* of the enemies reset when you use the shrine is just bullshit. It puts you off going back and exploring. I opened that shortcut but never used it as you would have had to fight your way past half the fucking stage again.

    It should definitely at least save your progress behind you and if you want to farm, just raise up the ghost things.
  • Malek86 30 Apr 2016 22:28:53 6,096 posts
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    It feels even less accessible than Souls, if that's actually possible.

    I think the combat just doesn't feel as rewarding, that's all. Because of that, I lose my patience more often, and try to strike when I shouldn't.

    Uhm, we'll see when it comes out, but it's too bad. Tecmo could have had a chance to make something more accessible to welcome new players to the genre (all of the people I know who got introduced by DS2 or BB, all of them gave up very soon), instead they went the other way and made something even tougher.
  • grassyknoll 2 May 2016 19:48:00 619 posts
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    @Malek86 The game doesn't need to change, the mechanics just need to be explained properly, Ki Pulse in particular. Once you understand that, the whole game clicks.
  • Malek86 2 May 2016 20:46:43 6,096 posts
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    That Ki Pulse thing sounds like a pain in the neck, it reminds me of when I always had to press R1 every time Squall attacked the enemy to increase the damage output. Most annoying mechanic ever.

    Edited by Malek86 at 20:46:58 02-05-2016
  • SomaticSense 2 May 2016 21:26:07 15,057 posts
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    grassyknoll wrote:
    @Malek86 The game doesn't need to change, the mechanics just need to be explained properly, Ki Pulse in particular. Once you understand that, the whole game clicks.
    I'd enjoy the game a lot more without that tbh. Souls didn't need a gimmick like that, and neither did Ninja Gaiden.

    I'd managed to suss it out, but it never stopped being annoying. It's a pointless mechanic you have to nanny that doesn't, imo, make the combat any more fun. Like having a reload in an old school schump.
  • nickthegun 2 May 2016 21:36:12 71,645 posts
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    Yeah, it's not great. I can see what they were going for but if it's something you have to do by default, it's not worth having in the game. It's just a tedious amount of meter management.

    Having said that, all the design decisions I found annoying will really come into their own at high level play. The game is based around duelling and choosing your gear, perks and stance all fit around that with the ki pulse being a strong move when you level it up to do other things.

    The problem is at lower levels it's just annoying. I don't mind having the dodge hooked up to it, though. You could also throw a parry in there too. You get some reward for the little timing game but you aren't left panting if you fail.
  • grassyknoll 2 May 2016 23:39:24 619 posts
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    @Malek86 I think it really works, the game adds so many facets to its combat. I'm genuinely think everything is so well designed the more you play it. If the quality is consistent it'll be my game of the generation. It's so good (for me) that I'm actually spoiling my enjoyment of Dark Soul's 3 (something I never ever imagined).

    Edited by grassyknoll at 23:50:13 02-05-2016

    Edited by grassyknoll at 23:55:03 02-05-2016
  • grassyknoll 2 May 2016 23:47:09 619 posts
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    @SomaticSense It's adding another skill based dimension to RPG combat. I think it's absolute genius personally. Best mechanic in a game since Viewtiful Joe's VFX powers. Personally, I think the game isn't too popular because you really can't fluke or tank anything, you really have to embrace & understand how the game works. My main criticism is it needs to full on tutorial from the very beginning, the game is far to complex to start the way it does (I'm pretty patient when it comes to read & understanding games).

    Edited by grassyknoll at 23:58:27 02-05-2016

    Edited by grassyknoll at 00:31:16 03-05-2016
  • OllyJ 3 May 2016 10:06:05 3,886 posts
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    Phew, i'm glad i'm not the only one who didn't realise there was a weapon to use at the start.
  • Rivuzu 3 May 2016 10:25:39 16,510 posts
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    "less accessible than souls", "more punishing than souls", etc.

    Guys, this isn't Souls. It's something different. It has flavours of souls in stamina management ("Ki" in this, which is bullshit) and enemy/item placement, but it's no where near the same type of game. It isn't even particularly difficult. The Ki Burst thing makes combat ridiculous as you can just mash out anyone, and if you drain their Ki and stagger them you can riposte - and everyone seems to fall over in about 4-5 hits. Enemies have no real poise/hyper armour on their moves (aside from the big Oni dudes), and the weird spirit sword thing destroys anyone and makes you completely safe.

    I don't feel like any enemy in this is a threat yet. Ki Burst needs balancing, and other styles need adjusting to make them feel more useful (anything aside from Medium is moot, as you gain no poise/armour on strong and light attacks have awful range).

    This game feels more Dynasty Warriors than it does Ninja Gaiden.
  • OllyJ 3 May 2016 11:30:16 3,886 posts
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    In my experience this game initially seems very much like a Souls clone, it has many of the same mechanics and the combat is near on identical, I don't think it's without good reason that Nioh and Dark Souls always end up in the same sentence.

    Agreed, it's not Ninja Gaiden, hopefully they will come back to that at some point though.
  • Baddamobs 3 May 2016 11:39:16 136 posts
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    I really liked the demo, it's super cool, but can we talk about that second boss?

    That one hit lightning attack got SUPER aggravating.
  • Tuffty 19 Jul 2016 15:38:36 3,991 posts
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    A new demo comes out on the 23rd August, including a new stage and other gameplay tweaks the development team was working on.
  • grassyknoll 17 Aug 2016 19:30:38 619 posts
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    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lJdJ4Y0iohs

    Don't believe no one has put the new trailer up yet. Looking absolutely incredible and most likely (head & shoulders from the demo) going to be my game of the generation.
  • Tuffty 23 Aug 2016 16:46:01 3,991 posts
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    Gentle reminder, a new beta demo is out now free to download and runs from now until September 6. The demo includes new areas and bosses in addition to everything seen in the Alpha. Like before, clearing the demo will unlock a special DLC item that will be used to get exclusive bonuses in the final game. If you missed the first bit of DLC from the Alpha you can still earn it in this beta in addition to the new DLC only available in this beta.

    General feedback is that the game has improved since the Alpha so I'm curious to see it for myself. Sounds like a really substantial demo.

    Edited by Tuffty at 16:46:42 23-08-2016
  • Malek86 23 Aug 2016 17:11:03 6,096 posts
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    Combat still doesn't click with me. Dodging is very hard, if you get hit once you'll be almost always stunlocked for the whole combo, and a bunch of skills seem to rely on that annoying Ki Pulse thing.

    I guess being a Souls fan doesn't mean I'll like anything that looks like Souls.
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