Playstation 4 Pro Page 3

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  • Blackmarsh63 19 Mar 2016 09:41:03 1,024 posts
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    @Decks So,come E3 and they announce a new console,you'll be fine with that ?
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 19 Mar 2016 09:48:07 9,237 posts
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    Sure. If you can call WANTING TO KILL MYSELF ok.
  • ubergine 19 Mar 2016 11:26:36 7,161 posts
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    Don't tempt us.

    I don't see how anyone could take the 4K gaming notion as anything but nonsense. If 4K streaming and discs are going to be a thing, it makes perfect sense that both camps would put out hardware revisions with those capabilities. The Xbox 360 launched without HDMI at all!
    Maybe they'd add a little guts to stabilise framerate, Xbox surely want that 1080P target, but it's not going to "split the player base" or other such nonsense.
  • frunk 19 Mar 2016 11:28:54 46 posts
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    I don't think there is any merit in the PS4K rumour. I think they are sounding out PS5 hardware.

    The next logical step for Sony is to push VR to the next level with around 1920*1600 per eye running at 90fps. That is around half a billion pixels per sec (1920*1600*2*90). A squarer display to suit VR and probably slightly higher pixel density in the centre. At this level (about double Vive/Rift) you will eliminate the remaining screen artefacts especially when they add re-projection hardware to double the perceived frame rate.

    Why this resolution? Well Sony are also big sellers of 4K and that hardware has similar graphics requirements. i.e. you are looking at pushing half a billion pixels pers second (4096*2160*60).

    4K TV's are not prevalent enough in homes to be relevant just now - and certainly not enough to justify a whole new PS4 in the next year or so. That is pure "enthusiast level stuff".

    The graphics hardware to drive 4K60 on a single PC video card is probably releasing this year/next on PC. It makes sense that *that hardware* with some magic sauce (3D audio processing, re-projection, shared memory, upscaling, dual screen support, etc) is what will end up in the next Sony console in 2-3 years time, once it has dropped in price enough to be mainstream.

    Anything else would be a half-arsed attempt.

    Since VR & 4K are both big Sony pushes they will align them in the PS5 properly - So PS5 announced in 2018, released on 2019, based on hardware in high-end 2017 PCs.

    I *THINK* Sony may well release a 4K media capable PS4 as a straight SKU swap. i.e. update the "standby processor", drive and HDMI port to fully support 4K media for their VUE platform, 4K BD, etc. Some of this is probably in place in the current PS4. But nothing to support games themselves. Sony may well wish to talk to developers about this in case they have a use for it next year.

    ----

    Microsoft on the other hand I *CAN* see then dropping an updated model in the next year. Everything they are doing is pointing towards it and they actually have something to gain from a new machine and they will be able to do it without fragmenting their market too much.

    Spencer has clearly stated that they are unifying Windows 10 and XBox. Can you think of an XBox game in development that is also not coming to Windows 10? No? Why? Because they are increasingly becoming one and the same.

    Effectively the XBox becomes Microsoft's "Steam Box". The XBox consoles having highly optimised hardware & drivers to get more bang per buck, but ultimately use the same higher level API's as their PC brothers. Like Windows 10 tablets, the version of Win 10 they have is optimised for the user interface. So XBox becomes less "hardware" but a "flavour of Windows 10" designed for gamers.

    So with the right Win10 API's in place (most of them are there NOW) you write game that works 900*1080*30fps on the XB1, 1920*1080*60/4K*30 on the XB1.1, 4K*60 on XB2 or some high end PC hardware.

    This means the XB1.1 will work fine with Vive & Rift, so MS don't even need to pursue VR - let the other guys do it for them and work out a deal with the Oculus store to appear as XBoxVR on their store. Just a business deal.

    So MS keep XBox but back out of the traidtional "console market" a little. Their competition is now Steam Machines and by using their own development muscle to push peeps towards their platform and not Valve's. I don't think Valve will win this one. Their lacklustre attempts at getting a Steam Machine in place have not been very successful. So MS are coming in and taking Valves idea and running off with it.

    Valve will stick to PC space and be reasonably successful in the short to medium term. But MS will keep releasing "XBoxes" which may well begin to replace the "gaming PC" as cheaper, more powerful, more efficient alternatives.

    The "Big box" PC's days are numbered to all but the enthusiast. The rest of us want a tablet, a laptop, a phone and a box to play games. With cheaper hardware they don't all need to be the same box. This was Apple's discovery... and the one that MS wants to emulate. More profit, less hassle.. and giving people what they want.

    Edited by frunk at 11:40:03 19-03-2016
  • Deleted user 19 March 2016 12:00:44
    Finally, the voice of reason...
  • JoelStinty 19 Mar 2016 12:07:01 5,537 posts
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    I can understand why (if true) they are doing this. It looks like where the industry is going. Iwata mentioned it too, it seems there is a move towards OS/Libraries rather than a machine. IOS/Android have been so successful, i guess there has to be a move towards this , and it makes sense. If it means everything from here on out is playable on a ps4.23 in 40 years i be ok with that.

    It just kind of sucks to learn this a quarter of the way through a generation rather than the start. And i don't think ..well microsoft certainly didn't build the infrastructure to evoke this business model from the ground up which is concerning.

    Edited by JoelStinty at 12:08:46 19-03-2016
  • Deleted user 19 March 2016 12:07:31
    Dear God my head just exploded.
  • ubergine 19 Mar 2016 12:11:47 7,161 posts
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    I love how we get vast ropes of tl:Dr technical guff to explain why something won't happen when a couple of lines of market reality is enough.
  • Dirtbox 19 Mar 2016 13:04:36 89,008 posts
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  • ozthegweat 19 Mar 2016 14:47:50 1,461 posts
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    Is it possible for the HDMI port in the PS4 to be capable of HDMI 2.0 already hardware-wise and just needing a firmware upgrade?
    Like those wifi chipsets that were sold before some standard – I believe it was the N standard – was finalised?
  • Tryhard 19 Mar 2016 15:05:55 12,019 posts
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    PirateRoberts wrote:

    For games, hdmi 2.0 or HDCP 2.2 wouldn't necessarily be requirements. 10 or 8Bit per component at 4K60 keeps it inside hdmi 1.4 bandwidth, and Tvs like my X9 do support unencrypted 4K60 through the other (1.4)hdmi ports iirc, and if the current budget android 4K tvs only support 4k at 30hz, then the bandwidth need is even less.

    In fact, judging by 4K in pro-consumer cameras (by XAVC-S) being limited to 60mbps - as shown by the 4k media player help page below. The whole upper end of the UHD (BD) specification 120mbps is unlikely to be needed for at least another 5years, and unlikely to be hit by gaming or even commercial UHD-BD releases any time soon when coupled with the efficiency ofcompression using h.265 (instead of h.264). It might be a little like the transition from SD → HD-Ready → Full HD.

    http://sony-eur-eu-en-web--eur.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/41067/~/playable-video-file-formats

    Hdmi 2.0 is really just a way of sneaking in Warner Brothers' latest HDCP 2.2 drm nastiness in the most convenient form. For game purposes, whatever HDCP level the PS4 accepts will be considered fine.

    As for your comparison with discrete PC hardware, it sounds like you are still in denial about the end of the road for discrete CPU/GPU setups for mainstream gaming. That's the reality that's coming in the console and PC space in the next 5-10years. A 6000-8000 GFLOP version of the Liverpool processor, would play current games at 4K30 (or maybe 60) in ways that an equivalent metric PC setup would not.
    Psycho babble.
  • ChiefGB 19 Mar 2016 15:08:01 6,867 posts
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    *mental note; back up and walk away slowly from thread before anyone sees you.
  • Dirtbox 19 Mar 2016 15:13:52 89,008 posts
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  • SYS64738 19 Mar 2016 15:15:33 4,135 posts
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    PirateRoberts wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    Paulanator wrote:
    Surely it would need a massive power boost to be able to offer a stable 4k experience at all. Unless you're prepared to play at 10fps!

    It's the whole fragmenting the market thing that makes me think this is bullshit though. 30 odd million PS4 owners will be made to feel redundant and left behind and what developer is going to spend all of that extra time/money making their game 4k for the comparitively tiny portion of PS4 owners that would have this new hardware and/or a 4k TV to play it on.
    It doesn't take any more development, it's just a resolution and the higher res textures that would have to have been downscaled for the vanilla PS 4.

    The problem is that a PC that can output 4k comfortably is running hardware well above anything Sony has access to for a console. A single AMD Fury X chip would barely manage it and at Ł500 a piece, I can't see them squeezing 2 in a plastic box at a price point that will appeal.

    A current PS4 couldn't do 4k under any circumstance as it's HDMI 1.4. It would need at least 2.0 to hit a resolution beyond 1080p.
    For games, hdmi 2.0 or HDCP 2.2 wouldn't necessarily be requirements. 10 or 8Bit per component at 4K60 keeps it inside hdmi 1.4 bandwidth, and Tvs like my X9 do support unencrypted 4K60 through the other (1.4)hdmi ports iirc, and if the current budget android 4K tvs only support 4k at 30hz, then the bandwidth need is even less.

    In fact, judging by 4K in pro-consumer cameras (by XAVC-S) being limited to 60mbps - as shown by the 4k media player help page below. The whole upper end of the UHD (BD) specification 120mbps is unlikely to be needed for at least another 5years, and unlikely to be hit by gaming or even commercial UHD-BD releases any time soon when coupled with the efficiency ofcompression using h.265 (instead of h.264). It might be a little like the transition from SD → HD-Ready → Full HD.

    http://sony-eur-eu-en-web--eur.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/41067/~/playable-video-file-formats

    Hdmi 2.0 is really just a way of sneaking in Warner Brothers' latest HDCP 2.2 drm nastiness in the most convenient form. For game purposes, whatever HDCP level the PS4 accepts will be considered fine.

    As for your comparison with discrete PC hardware, it sounds like you are still in denial about the end of the road for discrete CPU/GPU setups for mainstream gaming. That's the reality that's coming in the console and PC space in the next 5-10years. A 6000-8000 GFLOP version of the Liverpool processor, would play current games at 4K30 (or maybe 60) in ways that an equivalent metric PC setup would not.
    This is like reading Matrix code. Jesus.
  • monkman76 19 Mar 2016 15:16:53 11,577 posts
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    We need to disguise threads better than this. Including the words 'PlayStation' and '4K' in the title was just asking for trouble.
  • Tricky 19 Mar 2016 16:37:51 4,781 posts
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    ozthegweat wrote:
    Is it possible for the HDMI port in the PS4 to be capable of HDMI 2.0 already hardware-wise and just needing a firmware upgrade?
    Like those wifi chipsets that were sold before some standard – I believe it was the N standard – was finalised?
    Nope.
  • Deleted user 19 March 2016 19:57:36
    Dirtbox wrote:
    PirateRoberts wrote:
    As for your comparison with discrete PC hardware, it sounds like you are still in denial about the end of the road for discrete CPU/GPU setups for mainstream gaming. That's the reality that's coming in the console and PC space in the next 5-10years. A 6000-8000 GFLOP version of the Liverpool processor, would play current games at 4K30 (or maybe 60) in ways that an equivalent metric PC setup would not.
    Seems you're the one in denial, seeing as you can't play a game at 1080p with 60 frames right now on anything but a PC. Gigaflop my cock.
    Is PB still going on .. Just set him to ignore, hopefully he will get the message then.
  • beastmaster 19 Mar 2016 20:38:00 17,049 posts
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    If Sony release a 4K machine at the end of the year, I'll not buy it!
  • Juz 19 Mar 2016 22:56:31 3,093 posts
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    Dumb question from a non hardware nerd like you fucking dweebs are:

    If the "PS4.5" IS an add-on as well as a whole new console, what the fuck could that be? Like an old 32X or something? Is that kind of thing even possible, or would it have to be joined to the existing PS4 via a bottle necked connection, rendering it even more fucking stupid than it already sounds?

    Non-technical/non-coma-inducing answers please.

    Nerds.

    /jealous of technical knowledge.
  • neilka 20 Mar 2016 00:13:50 20,274 posts
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    Never forget

  • Armoured_Bear 20 Mar 2016 00:20:56 19,939 posts
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    monkman76 wrote:
    We need to disguise threads better than this. Including the words 'PlayStation' and '4K' in the title was just asking for trouble.
    Sorry guys...
  • Armoured_Bear 20 Mar 2016 01:08:55 19,939 posts
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    PirateRoberts wrote:
    How exactly did you expect a thread to go - that links an article - that copies comments I made 6months into this generation? And how is it, that your linked article is forum worthy in your opinion, but when I predicted this, it was rambling?

    Maybe you should improve the title:

    Playstation 4K, will they finally add an ethernet port? :)
    Could we see the copied comments please?
  • richardiox 20 Mar 2016 01:50:26 6,733 posts
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    Fuck off Vizzini you weirdo.

    "if God created a console he would have called it ps3" - how anyone could take anything you say seriously ever again is beyond me.
  • ubergine 20 Mar 2016 02:05:59 7,161 posts
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    PirateRoberts wrote:
    How exactly did you expect a thread to go - that links an article - that copies comments I made 6months into this generation? And how is it, that your linked article is forum worthy in your opinion, but when I predicted this, it was rambling?

    Maybe you should improve the title:

    Playstation 4K, will they finally add an ethernet port? :)
    If your posts contain verifiable information, it's lost in impenetrable gobbledygook that presents as rambling. I don't reply much because engineering isn't my field, though one time you did post about some subject I did understand, and I could for once recognise that what you were posting was just random big words mushed into meaningless porridge.

    In this particular thread it's turned into a battle of numbers I'll never bother verifying. I don't need to. It remains a really obvious market reality that Sony will not put out a "4K Gaming" model any time soon, it's fucking idiotic.
  • neilka 20 Mar 2016 02:15:19 20,274 posts
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    The easiest way of confirming that vizzini hasn't got something right is looking outside your window to check that the universe hasn't descended into some kind of Heironymous Boschesque hellscape where literally nothing makes sense any more.
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