The Anime Appreciation Thread Page 19

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  • Deleted user 9 August 2017 12:07:45
    @Ror re:zero fuck yes 100%
  • Deleted user 9 August 2017 12:08:15
    @The_Goon if you have seen the last two dragonball z movies you can confidently skip the first two super arcs
  • Ror 9 Aug 2017 12:43:40 16,736 posts
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    FrostPan wrote:
    No probs, fellow Dragon Maid fan :)
    \o/



    Graxlar_v2 wrote:
    @Ror re:zero fuck yes 100%
    I guess I'll forget SoA then :p

    Edited by Ror at 12:44:14 09-08-2017
  • The_Goon 9 Aug 2017 12:46:10 623 posts
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    @Graxlar_v2 Cheers, I have. Knew that going in but feel like watching it through from scratch though anyway.

    Reading the DBZ manga for the first time too. It really is much more succinct than the anime, isn't it? Lol.
  • Deleted user 9 August 2017 12:49:34
    Re;Zero is doubly good cos my favourite character has (almost) the same name as my wife - Rem & Remi.
  • dankcushions 9 Aug 2017 13:37:45 327 posts
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    i've begun watching gundam because of the model kits. from what i've watched:

    the original mobile suit gundam series from the 70s is kind of great. i watch the 3 movie compilations, and the english dub is awesome. a bit cheesy but in a good way. there is a lot of Anti-War Stuff in between the Extremely War Stuff, but i kinda like that.

    the 08th MS team series was up next. it's a side story to the MSG one, set on earth. it's a bit more low key but the animation and voice acting is way ahead, whilst still keeping to the same style. the romance thread going through it is a little generic, but i was into it by the end.

    'war in the pocket' seems the next one in order. it's going to take me forever to get through all these (the good ones, anyway), but i've been pleasantly surprised so far.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 9 Aug 2017 15:30:27 2,099 posts
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    @dankcushions Seen way more Gundam than I care to think about over the years...

    In terms of the UC (Universal Century) shows, which are set in the same timeline as the original show...

    Zeta Gundam is probably the best of the old stuff (and has aged well). It's the direct sequel to the original series and basically laid down the template that much of the later stuff would follow. It's a fairly complex, political, multi-faction story with a lot of blurring of lines rather than traditional "goodies" and "baddies". Kamille, the protagonist, can be a bit whiny at times, but it's still generally a good show and was well ahead of its time.

    The direct sequel to that was Gundam ZZ, which is a very strange show indeed. The first half was an effort to get away from the darker tone of Zeta and back to a children's show look and feel. This makes bits of it (unintentionally) hilarious when watched back-to-back with Zeta. For instance, Yazan Gable - one of Zeta's few outright villains and a genuine psychopath with a sideline in implied sexual assault - is transformed into what is basically "naughty old uncle Yazan", who spends the opening episodes pratfalling and being thwarted again by those pesky kids. The second half of ZZ ditches this and goes right back to the tone and style of Zeta (and is pretty good).

    The Amuro/Char storyline from the original series then gets wrapped up in the fourth and final instalment of the "main plot" - the movie Char's Counterattack (which is good stuff).

    There are various other OVAs, movies and TV series set within the UC, of generally variable quality. You've seen 08th MS Team, which is probably the best of the OVAs.

    The next major instalment in the timeline-chronology (though by far the most recent in terms of air-date) is Unicorn. This is set a generation or so after ZZ and is very, very pretty, being made on a high budget and with modern animation techniques. It's available both as an OVA series and as a 2-cour TV series. The latter is generally better, but frankly, I hate both of them. They're slow, ponderous and think they're much smarter and more political than they actually are.

    Then there's Victory Gundam, which is set 50 years or so after Unicorn, by which time the setting is considerably more run-down and wartorn. It doesn't have many connections to the other UC shows. It was basically Tomino's attempt to end the Gundam brand (and its commercialisation) by train-wrecking it with an unspeakably bleak show (he was going through a bad divorce at the time). It's a bleak, bleak show, verging on sadistic in places, which kills most of its cast and severely traumatises the survivors (it also has the youngest Gundam pilot of any of the major shows). It's not really very good and is of interest mostly as a curiousity. Amusingly, Cross Ange, which is one of my favourite shows of recent years (and also by Sunrise) contains many nods to Victory Gundam and has a similarly bleak world-view, but is far, far more entertaining about it.

    Finally, while not strictly speaking a UC show, Turn-A Gundam basically wraps up the timeline. It's set a couple of thousand years into the distant future (a huge war 75 years or so after Victory apparently put technology back to the stone-age and Earth is only back to late-19th/early-20th century levels by the time the series opens). I actually like this show a lot. It's basically Tomino's "apology" for Victory and tackles some of the same themes, but in a much less nihilistic manner. It also has a really cool War of the Worlds vibe going on (particularly in its earlier episodes) - field guns and primitive bi-planes fighting giant robots from the moon.

    Then you've got the alternative timelines (which require no knowledge of the original show). The short version here is that Iron Blooded Orphans is excellent (and very dark), SEED is more or less a remake of the original show with a few names switched and better animation, 00 starts well and then descends into a mess, Wing is slow, political and deathly-dry, G is pure cheese and anything I haven't bothered to mention can generally be ignored.
  • dankcushions 9 Aug 2017 15:42:50 327 posts
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    @Rogueywon wow, cheers- very useful!

    i'll skip war in the pocket and go straight to zeta. 50 episodes.. i will be some time.
  • The_Goon 9 Aug 2017 18:51:53 623 posts
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    I'd love to get into Gundam but it seems so intimidating. No clue where to start!
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 9 Aug 2017 19:24:50 2,099 posts
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    @The_Goon The alternate universes are actually the easiest way in. The "main" timeline - the Universal Century - is kinda heavily loaded with lore and unfortunately begins with a very, very old show aimed directly at children.

    If you want to try something a bit like the original but more modern, then Gundam SEED isn't a bad place to start. Its direct sequel, SEED Destiny, tends to be marmite, but SEED itself is a good run through the main plot points of the original Gundam, but with more modern (though still dated) art and animation and stronger character arcs.

    If you want to try something very different, but more adapted to modern tastes, then the most recent major series, Iron Blooded Orphans, is a very good place to start. It's a dark and bloody war story with less of the pious sentimentality that often infests Gundam series. It's also fairly self-contained, being composed of two main series, each 2-cours long, but with no sequels or spin-offs.
  • FrostPan 10 Aug 2017 00:10:13 1,385 posts
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    @Ror

    Will always be an amazing gif.
  • dankcushions 10 Aug 2017 11:26:11 327 posts
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    Rogueywon wrote:
    @The_Goon The alternate universes are actually the easiest way in. The "main" timeline - the Universal Century - is kinda heavily loaded with lore and unfortunately begins with a very, very old show aimed directly at children,
    i actually found the original (at least, the 3 compilation movies) to be ok. i think there's far too much politics for kids to enjoy them. the whole reluctant, pacifist hero trope is a bit played out (and seems to be in every mecha series), and the whole 'new type' human evolution stuff seemed a bit insubstantial, but i feel like it's way north of its 80s western saturday morning cartoon peers.

    i imagine going through the whole tv series would be a slog, though. even the condensed movies seemed to go on forever.
  • Rivuzu 10 Aug 2017 12:37:55 16,715 posts
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    ... I still love Wing.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 10 Aug 2017 15:40:10 2,099 posts
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    @dankcushions The "reluctant, pacifist hero" thing does indeed get overdone in mecha anime and Gundam in particular. It's not actually a bad idea and a few series do it pretty well. Turn A Gundam's Loran is actually believable in the role; he has a foot in both the Earth and the Moon camps and genuinely seems invested in trying to stop the war from escalating. But too often, it's played as "character moans and whinges about how awful war is before flipping out and blowing everything up". The absolute nadir of this is Unicorn, where Banagher is possibly the most annoying, pious and preachy protagonist in any form of fiction ever. But it's not just Gundam; lots of other mecha shows (and indeed non-mecha shows) play the "pacifist hero" card, usually badly or at least awkwardly.

    I think it's a bit of a Japanese cultural thing, with the strong emphasis that modern Japanese culture places on non-aggression.

    But there are also some welcome exceptions; mecha protagonists who are anything but pacifists and are usually much more interesting as a result.

    Even in Gundam, you have Iron Blooded Orphans, where Mikazuki is an emotionally scarred child soldier who almost always defaults to the most violent option possible. After a couple of opening episodes where IBO doesn't look all that different from normal Gundam fare, you get smacked with a scene where the protagonist executes unarmed prisoners in cold blood. It's a real slap in the face for the viewer and a statement of intent that IBO is going to be a very different kind of show. It doesn't endorse his actions (they're supposed to be shocking), but it does largely leave it up to the viewer how to feel about them.

    Not a Sunrise show, but Aldnoah Zero's protagonist is also no pacifist. He doesn't want to be involved in a war, but having found himself fighting in one, he's in it to win it. He's a difficult perspective character, because he's so damned emotionless.

    Then you've got the original Macross series and Macross Frontier, which of course have a lot of Top Gun in their DNA. Its mecha-pilots aren't the angsty children you usually get in the role in anime, but rather strutting, preening fighter-jocks. That said, Macross 7 goes to the far opposite end of the scale, with Neki Basara being a very well done version of the "pacifist protagonist" (not least because he's anything but limp and angsty).

    And yeah, I've mentioned Cross Ange before and I'm going to mention it again. It's another Sunrise show (with a lot of Gundam in its DNA) but it's also gloriously trashy and incredibly fun (and very much not for the easily offended); the polar opposite of the more pompous Gundam shows like Unicorn. Its heroine spends the second half of the series on a mission to make the world burn (spoiler: she succeeds) and has no qualms about killing civilians along the way.

    Oh yes, and of course there's Gurren Lagann. Which is... well... Gurren Lagann (and also fantastic). Hint: its characters are not exactly pacifists.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 10 Aug 2017 15:42:14 2,099 posts
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    @Rivuzu Wing's not bad as such - it was the first Gundam show to make it big in the West. But it's also a strange show and its success is surprising with hindsight. It has probably the most complex politics of any of the Gundam shows and its protagonists spend a good chunk of the mid section of the show spectating from the sidelines.

    I quite enjoyed it when I watched it, but it's very dry and I've never been tempted to go back and watch it again.
  • Rivuzu 10 Aug 2017 15:48:51 16,715 posts
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    @Rogueywon as true as that is, it really captured the angsty teenage years for those in my generation.

    It's a terrible anime really, making no bones about it, but it was fantastic at the time because of the audience.
  • dankcushions 10 Aug 2017 15:57:47 327 posts
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    @Rogueywon evangelion's shinji ikari also.. although he's not a pacifist as such, and that show is only ostensibly about mecha anyway. but that's a whole other subject...
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 10 Aug 2017 16:04:59 2,099 posts
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    @dankcushions Shinji is an example of the "whiny teenaged protagonist". But he's a well executed example of it; unlike most other examples of the type, the viewer is clearly supposed to get frustrated with him. There is actually a decent point to making him irritate the viewer on occasion and the show wouldn't have worked if he didn't.

    In many cases, though, the whiny pacifist protagonist is supposed to be seen as virtuous and admirable. Again, I come back to Gundam Unicorn as pretty much the worst example of this.
  • GarlVinland 10 Aug 2017 16:38:58 2,300 posts
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    That reminds me. I need to watch those Evangelion remake movies and see what the fuss is about. Worth splurging and getting those and the Berserk remakes too?
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 10 Aug 2017 16:58:30 2,099 posts
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    @GarlVinland Kind of. A lot depends on how they land things with the 4th movie, if it ever comes out.

    The first is mostly (until the last 10 minutes) a straight re-make of the first half dozen episodes of the series, albeit with more modern and higher budget animation.

    The second goes off in a new direction and is pretty entertaining about it.

    The third is definitely going into the "abstract wibble" space that NGE is known for. It's pretty, but hard going in places. I'll accept it if it's a prelude to a decent fourth movie, but it's not necessarily a fun movie to watch.
  • GarlVinland 10 Aug 2017 17:32:21 2,300 posts
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    Cool, wouldn't be Evangelion without wibbling (so I hear)! I hear movie 4 should end the revival, so 3/4 of the way there. I've always heard such divergent things about it, might as well watch it and make up my own mind. Same with Berserk. And Stein's Gate.
  • CosmicFuzz 10 Aug 2017 17:41:55 32,057 posts
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    Heh, I love Evangelion, one of the first anime I watched. Never knew wtf was going on at the end, mind :D

    Finished first part of FMA:B. Brilliant.
  • dankcushions 10 Aug 2017 18:05:39 327 posts
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    i think the evangelion rebuilds are total horseshit. every parallel they have with the original series is tonally way off.

    i do kind of like how much it irritates me/fans, though. that's kind of the most evangelion thing about it. maybe that IS evangelion?
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 10 Aug 2017 18:24:26 2,099 posts
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    @dankcushions Indeed. Trolling the audience has always been a big part of Evangelion. First you had the infamous last two episodes of the TV broadcast. Then you had End of Evangelion, which was billed as the "proper" ending and then, around the halfway point, becomes every bit as headfuck as the TV ending. And then you've got the end of the second Rebuild movie and pretty much the whole of the third one.

    Hideaki Anno really loves trolling the audience. We keep watching his stuff because he's so damned good at it.
  • dankcushions 10 Aug 2017 18:54:31 327 posts
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    thing is i LOVED the original series ending. i think a lot of good art has come from running out of money and this is a perfect example.

    EoE i can take or leave. i think it explains too much and gets really cruel, compared to the hope of the original. but i can appreciate the unbridled rage at the half of his audience who didn't get the ending first time around.

    i guess the movies are there to troll the other half.
  • Ror 10 Aug 2017 19:13:25 16,736 posts
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    @FrostPan I agree.



    I started Re:Zero last night. I was a bit confused when the first episode just abruptly ended, so had a quick look online and found out it had a 50 minute premiere. I'll have to watch the other half later, as it was about 2am when I watched that.

    GarlVinland wrote:
    And Stein's Gate.
    If at all possible, play the game rather than watch the anime. It's so, so, soooo much better.
  • blackbeard777 10 Aug 2017 19:51:00 18 posts
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    Gotta get on Boku no Hero Academia. One of the best animes I have seen in a while. Takes me back to when I used to watch Anime as a kid. It is really well made.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 10 Aug 2017 19:53:41 2,099 posts
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    blackbeard777 wrote:
    Gotta get on Boku no Hero Academia. One of the best animes I have seen in a while. Takes me back to when I used to watch Anime as a kid. It is really well made.
    Yes, it's got a few pacing issues, but it's generally a lot of fun and much better than most of the stuff that comes out of Shonen Jump. Has a nicely well-rounded side-cast whose lives don't all revolve around the protagonist. That's often one sign of a high quality show.
  • GarlVinland 10 Aug 2017 20:24:13 2,300 posts
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    Ror wrote:
    GarlVinland wrote:
    And Stein's Gate.
    If at all possible, play the game rather than watch the anime. It's so, so, soooo much better.
    I hear this. What makes it so much better? Is it that you're making the choices, or is the story quite different?

    I have a Vita so it's an option. :)
  • OmniaVincitAmor 10 Aug 2017 20:28:14 2,371 posts
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    Only seen a couple of episodes of FMA on Netflix so powered through loads over the last 2 days cos of your guys praises. Holy shit it's good. At episode 10 of series 2 and man oh man it's solid. Great characters well animated great fight scenes and not scared to get disturbing. It's climbing my best of list very quickly.

    And that "dog" story arc. Fucking hell.
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