The Pope Page 3

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  • Deleted user 1 April 2005 09:56:01
    sam_spade wrote:
    Well I'm sure all you detractors have been steadily petitioning the Vatican to change its stance.

    I'm sure you have no idea how many gay rallies, lobbying for harder punishment to paedophiles, and World AIDS day marches as well as donations to charites that support victims of sexual abuse and people suffering from AIDS I've been on and contributed to...

    Don't make wide sweeping accusations without knowing the people you carelessly speak about and judge please... It's not very Christian!

    ;P
  • Lutz 1 Apr 2005 09:56:51 48,854 posts
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    Peekaboo wrote:
    lol, I love the fact that I make one crass joke about the shell of someone who was the pope and everyone gets on their high horse. Lutz, did I say he deserved to die ???
    Not, but you said he needed to shoved onto a stick and paraded. You didn't make a joke (Or if it was it was utter shite and totally uncalled for and very disrespectful)
    No. And that my friend is the difference, come down from up there because the altitude is obviously affecting your judgement, did I flame anyone on this board ?
    Yes! You just insulted every Catholic on here!
    No, yet I've been flamed several times, yet no action is taken and the all pals act comes into play.
    You have been flamed for showing no respect for a dying person and to any Catholics here who are upset ATM.

    Good Modding mate, credit to the business.
    I've modded fuck all. Don't use that as an excuse as it's very weak and pathetic to attack what someone's role/job is rather than their post.

    Oh and Barton, what exactly did I say that would be so offence to the empty shell of a one time pope ?
    How would you like it if people said "Who Pekaboo is dying! Lets shove a stick up his back side and keep him clean and no one will actually ntice the difference?"
    And the other point is it's not JUST the pope you insulted!
    In fact, I'm not sure my reference was entirely offensive....Dare I say some people like to jump the gun ?
    Then you REALLY need to improve your empathy skills. Seriously.

    Edited by Lutz at 08:57:52 01-04-2005

    Edited by Lutz at 08:58:34 01-04-2005
  • Blerk Moderator 1 Apr 2005 09:59:47 48,225 posts
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    Whoa!

    /turns
    /runs
  • sam_spade 1 Apr 2005 10:04:09 15,745 posts
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    Djini wrote:
    sam_spade wrote:
    Well I'm sure all you detractors have been steadily petitioning the Vatican to change its stance.

    I'm sure you have no idea how many gay rallies, lobbying for harder punishment to paedophiles, and World AIDS day marches as well as donations to charites that support victims of sexual abuse and people suffering from AIDS I've been on and contributed to...

    Don't make wide sweeping accusations without knowing the people you carelessly speak about and judge please... It's not very Christian!

    ;P

    That's alright I'm not Christian or any faith. But I'm willing to listen to how many rallies you've (or anyone) have been to and how many charities you've given money to that gives a person a right to verbally spit on a dying man.

    Like I said, it's always when someone is dying that the detractors come out and start kicking up a fuss.
  • Peekaboo 1 Apr 2005 10:07:06 152 posts
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    Lutz -

    1. Never said he NEEDED to be paraded. Reread the post.
    2. Expressed my opinion about organized religion, people find that insulting then I can't help that. Am entitled to express it.
    3. Flamed for showing no respect to a dying person ? Hmmm, don't think so, I made a crass comment concerning the fact that for ages now he has been nothing but a shell held up by his cardinals everytime they want to make a point about something.
    4. I attacked the job/role because you obviously didn't take the time to digest my comment before jumping on the horse. A good mod should see both sides and take it from there. IMO btw. Not that my modding career shows this ;-)
    5. Actually wouldn't mind as I'm not self centered enough to bother about it, but however I will point out that their is a difference between some bloke in another country who you don't know and aren't related to and the more personal things like family.
    6. Seeing as I've already said my piece about whet he stands for is it any surprise I don't see the big deal ? Also, there are disagreements on here all the time, why such a hooha over religion and the death of one man ?

    Oh and 7. Has certainly made this morning far more interesting don't you think ?

    Edited by Peekaboo at 09:07:52 01-04-2005
  • ssuellid 1 Apr 2005 10:09:32 19,141 posts
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    Peekaboo wrote:
    4. I attacked the job/role because you obviously didn't take the time to digest my comment before jumping on the horse. A good mod should see both sides and take it from there. IMO btw. Not that my modding career shows this ;-)

    Mods on here IMHO are just here to tidy up and moderate the real obscene stuff not themselves or their own opinions. Even the staff mods are like this.
  • RubyRed 1 Apr 2005 10:10:03 4,303 posts
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    What is it with Catholicism that attracts so much abuse on this fucking forum? Why is it alright to slag off someone's ideals and shit all over their beliefs because they are Catholics or Christians, yet the second anyone criticises another religion such as Islam, they get banned? The stuff that's being said on here about Catholicism and the Pope, who is a highly respected human being, is considered 'the truth', yet to whinge about Muslim women having to cover themselves from head to toe because Muslim men won't let them is racist? Please, get your priorities right.
  • boo 1 Apr 2005 10:12:35 11,781 posts
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    Sad news - I think he was probably one of the more forward thinking Popes we've had.

    Presumably we'll now get another very old man elected. I read somewhere a long time ago that Pope's can't be 'stood down' - it's a job for life, and so the Cardinals always pick someone pretty old so that if they choose someone who doesn't fit and suddenly starts spouting radical ideas, it's only a matter of time before he dies.

    On a different note - as someone who's not religious at all, can someone explain to me just what it is that Catholicism has against contraception?

    Presumably given that 'the rhythm method' is approved of, they don't have a problem with intercourse for recreational rather than procreational purposes, so what's the problem with a barrier method?
    Given the number of starving and dying people around the world you'd think they'd be all for people not bringing unplanned children into the world.

    Or am I being a bit naive?

    Edited by boo at 09:14:05 01-04-2005

    Just Another Lego Blog

  • bainbrge 1 Apr 2005 10:15:33 1,687 posts
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    RubyRed wrote:
    What is it with Catholicism that attracts so much abuse on this fucking forum? Why is it alright to slag off someone's ideals and shit all over their beliefs because they are Catholics or Christians, yet the second anyone criticises another religion such as Islam, they get banned? The stuff that's being said on here about Catholicism and the Pope, who is a highly respected human being, is considered 'the truth', yet to whinge about Muslim women having to cover themselves from head to toe because Muslim men won't let them is racist? Please, get your priorities right.

    I can't imagine there are that many people (in this society) who see the treatment of women in many islamic societies as acceptable. I don't want to insult you in any way, but don't you accept that the pope had a responsibility to prevent suffering by moderating his church's view on contraception? He failed to do this, and it has directly contributed towards AIDS deaths.
  • Lutz 1 Apr 2005 10:16:54 48,854 posts
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    Peekaboo wrote:
    Lutz -

    1. Never said he NEEDED to be paraded. Reread the post.
    No, you didn't fair enough. But it was still disresepctful. Put a stick up him and no one will notice. Yeah, that's nice.
    2. Expressed my opinion about organized religion, people find that insulting then I can't help that. Am entitled to express it.
    You DIDN'T though did you? In that post you simple attacked the pope. I don't anyone here has a problem with you not liking the Catholic church. The church is NOT one man though.
    3. Flamed for showing no respect to a dying person ? Hmmm, don't think so, I made a crass comment concerning the fact that for ages now he has been nothing but a shell held up by his cardinals everytime they want to make a point about something.
    That isn't how it came across...
    4. I attacked the job/role because you obviously didn't take the time to digest my comment before jumping on the horse. A good mod should see both sides and take it from there. IMO btw. Not that my modding career shows this ;-)
    Being a mod has got fuck all to do with it.
    And you didn't attack the role, you attacked HIM, as a person. And if I was to fully "digest" every comment before posting I'd never have time to post.
    5. Actually wouldn't mind as I'm not self centered enough to bother about it, but however I will point out that their is a difference between some bloke in another country who you don't know and aren't related to and the more personal things like family.
    Yes, there is. However both of them are human beings, and thus should be treated like such.
    6. Seeing as I've already said my piece about whet he stands for is it any surprise I don't see the big deal ? Also, there are disagreements on here all the time, why such a hooha over religion and the death of one man ?
    That ISN'T THE POINT!!! Do you really not see?

    Saying:

    "If you stuck a stick up the pope you wouldn't even know he was dead"
    And
    "The Catholic church have used him as a puppet for years" are two VERY different things! Yes, I understand what you meant in your post now, but it's not a very nice way of saying it. There's also the fact that you "don't see the big deal". If you don't why are you commenting on it? People here are religious, people here will be upset when he dies, and you're effectivly taking the piss out of a dying man.

    Can you not see that?

    Oh and 7. Has certainly made this morning far more interesting don't you think ?
    Not really. It's year end and I've got far better things to do thanks.


    @Ssue: Exactly.
  • ssuellid 1 Apr 2005 10:17:16 19,141 posts
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    boo wrote:
    On a different note - as someone who's not religious at all, can someone explain to me just what it is that Catholicism has against contraception?

    A rough summing up.

    Sex = trying to create new life = good. Sex and contraception = preventing new life = bad.

    or

    "In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (Latin, "Human Life"), which reemphasized the Churchís constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence. "

    "Contraception is wrong because itís a deliberate violation of the design God built into the human race, often referred to as "natural law." The natural law purpose of sex is procreation."

    Edited by ssuellid at 09:19:51 01-04-2005
  • kalel 1 Apr 2005 10:18:01 87,627 posts
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    Imho Peekaboo, you've just shown a bit of a lack of tact. Whilst it wasn't a viscious attack on Catholicism, it was just a bit insensitive, and I think you chose entirely the wrong time and place to say it. Backtracking is just going to make you look like an arse I'm afriad.
  • Deleted user 1 April 2005 10:18:08
    Post deleted
  • Lutz 1 Apr 2005 10:18:12 48,854 posts
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    RubyRed wrote:
    What is it with Catholicism that attracts so much abuse on this fucking forum? Why is it alright to slag off someone's ideals and shit all over their beliefs because they are Catholics or Christians, yet the second anyone criticises another religion such as Islam, they get banned? The stuff that's being said on here about Catholicism and the Pope, who is a highly respected human being, is considered 'the truth', yet to whinge about Muslim women having to cover themselves from head to toe because Muslim men won't let them is racist? Please, get your priorities right.
    Roobs, as far as I know no-one has ever been banned for that.

    You're right though. The Catholic Church has done many bad things in the past, but IMO there's far wrose religions around.
  • Lutz 1 Apr 2005 10:21:46 48,854 posts
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    ecosse_011172 wrote:
    Well we live in an overly PC world where criticism of certain groups is taboo. e.g. Muslims, Jews, Immigrants...
    Too true.
  • sam_spade 1 Apr 2005 10:24:44 15,745 posts
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    boo wrote:
    Presumably given that 'the rhythm method' is approved of, they don't have a problem with intercourse for recreational rather than procreational purposes, so what's the problem with a barrier method?

    Sex in the Catholic world is supposed to be for a man and wife; pre-marital and extra-marital sex are forbidden. Which is where the don't use condoms comes a cropper because people can't seem to keep their dick in their pants.


    Given the number of starving and dying people around the world you'd think they'd be all for people not bringing unplanned children into the world.

    But every child is imbued with a soul by God. Hence the anti-abortion stance.
  • Deleted user 1 April 2005 10:24:50
    sam_spade wrote:
    gives a person a right to verbally spit on a dying man.

    Who the fuck 'verbally spat on' a dying man?
  • Lutz 1 Apr 2005 10:27:46 48,854 posts
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    Djini wrote:
    Who the fuck 'verbally spat on' a dying man?
    Peekaboo wrote:
    Prop him up on a stick, keep the flies off him and no-one will notice for years. Sorted.
  • UncleLou Moderator 1 Apr 2005 10:30:05 35,553 posts
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    Your comment was just tactless and immature, Peekaboo, don't try to sell it as some rebellious free thinker's act now.
  • RubyRed 1 Apr 2005 10:30:28 4,303 posts
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    bainbrge wrote:
    I can't imagine there are that many people (in this society) who see the treatment of women in many islamic societies as acceptable. I don't want to insult you in any way, but don't you accept that the pope had a responsibility to prevent suffering by moderating his church's view on contraception? He failed to do this, and it has directly contributed towards AIDS deaths.

    Look, I wasn't saying the above in response to people's opinions on what the Pope's done, I'm just on about the immense disrespect people have on this forum for other people's beliefs. I'm not a devout Catholic or anything, but I've got my beliefs and I would never jam them down someone's throat the way people who have no beliefs at all do to me. Lord knows it's hard enough being on this forum when you're female/English/from London without people telling you that everything you've been brought up to believe in is bollocks and that you and the others who have a similar background are responsible for everything that's wrong in the world.

    That is all.

    EDIT: Lutz - sorry, not banned, but you know what I mean. Sacrificed to the lions, whatever ;)

    Edited by RubyRed at 09:34:46 01-04-2005
  • Peekaboo 1 Apr 2005 10:31:44 152 posts
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    Ruby -Thats a bloody good point, not the banning, but the perception that people can't talk about them in such a manner. Why not ? Personally I think things are too PC these days but I'm sure I'll be pulled up for that ;-)

    Lutz -See I really, honestly don't see why Religion (And politics) gets people so riled. I really don't. I genuinely find it all most amusing. I can only apologise if I have upset people but to be honest, I don't see how people can get so upset over such a thing. Call me an insensitive bastard, buts thats the way I see it.
  • UncleLou Moderator 1 Apr 2005 10:34:03 35,553 posts
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    To lighten things up a bit: Here's my favourite picture of the Pope. :-)

    Edited by UncleLou at 09:34:24 01-04-2005
  • MetalDog 1 Apr 2005 10:34:19 23,697 posts
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    Whether or not one is Catholic or has hatered for the pope or Catholosism itself, to voice those opinions at this precise time is to do so /knowing/ that you are going to hurt other people. It's cheap, it's nasty and it's an inclination best avoided.

    I'm not a blinding fan of Catholosism on some grounds, but the Pope has clearly tried to be progressive in some areas, he's been ill for a long time now and I hope he goes to his rest soon, so that his suffering will end.

    From a religious persepective, if he has anything he needs to pay penance for (and I believe /all/ of us do), it's for God to judge.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • sam_spade 1 Apr 2005 10:36:06 15,745 posts
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    "Anyway, despite being brought up a catholic I disagree with a lot of the catholic beliefs and think that most relighions (except Buddhism) have done as much harm as good. The condom thing has to be sorted out right now. Hello vatican, Africa, AIDS!"

    I don't see how the Pope can be blamed for people who so heartless that they spread diesease or don't get checked up.

    People have to taken personal responsibility for themselves. You can't point at a Pope who says, don't wear condoms and also don't have sex with anyone else but your wife/husband. If you obey those simple laws, your chances of getting AIDS are pretty slim.
  • Lutz 1 Apr 2005 10:36:32 48,854 posts
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    Ruby -Thats a bloody good point, not the banning, but the perception that people can't talk about them in such a manner. Why not ? Personally I think things are too PC these days but I'm sure I'll be pulled up for that ;-)
    Probably not. Having an opinion on something is one thing, how you say it is another thing, and attacking someone or something without justification or back up is yet another thing. It's all about how you say it. It's very rarely why you say that is an issue. As you say, you don't like the catholic church. Hell, join the club, me neither. But do you respect peoples beliefs?

    Lutz -See I really, honestly don't see why Religion (And politics) gets people so riled. I really don't. I genuinely find it all most amusing.
    Then don't go and wind people up if you don't understand what you're doing.
    People get riled about religion and politics a lot because these two issues, more than most, are at the centre of a persons life. Many people grow up believing in a God and/or religion, so to attack it is to attack their way of life. If you attack it you have to accpet the fact you're going to get a response. Same goes for politics.
    I can only apologise if I have upset people but to be honest, I don't see how people can get so upset over such a thing. Call me an insensitive bastard, buts thats the way I see it.
    Well if you can't see it I'd say you do lack empathy. Really.

    Or to be insulting, you're an insensitive bastard. (j/k) ;)
  • bainbrge 1 Apr 2005 10:38:01 1,687 posts
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    sam_spade wrote:
    "Anyway, despite being brought up a catholic I disagree with a lot of the catholic beliefs and think that most relighions (except Buddhism) have done as much harm as good. The condom thing has to be sorted out right now. Hello vatican, Africa, AIDS!"

    I don't see how the Pope can be blamed for people who so heartless that they spread diesease or don't get checked up.

    People have to taken personal responsibility for themselves. You can't point at a Pope who says, don't wear condoms and also don't have sex with anyone else but your wife/husband. If you obey those simple laws, your chances of getting AIDS are pretty slim.

    You've just won the thread, that was astounding.

    What about people who don't have a choice about who they have sex with, i.e. lots of African women in patriarchal societies?
  • Lutz 1 Apr 2005 10:39:06 48,854 posts
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    sam_spade wrote:
    "Anyway, despite being brought up a catholic I disagree with a lot of the catholic beliefs and think that most relighions (except Buddhism) have done as much harm as good. The condom thing has to be sorted out right now. Hello vatican, Africa, AIDS!"

    I don't see how the Pope can be blamed for people who so heartless that they spread diesease or don't get checked up.

    People have to taken personal responsibility for themselves. You can't point at a Pope who says, don't wear condoms and also don't have sex with anyone else but your wife/husband. If you obey those simple laws, your chances of getting AIDS are pretty slim.
    Exactly. It sounds like people are laying all the blame at the doors of the vatican.

    For example:

    ...


    Actually, I'm not sure *how* true this is, and I can't recall the source, but I'm pretty certain that in Africa AIDS was viewed as a curse, and for a man to clense himself he had to have sex with a female. The younger the better. That was a view held by the "elders" or "witchdoctors" or similar in their society.

    As I say though, I can't recall the source.
  • Lutz 1 Apr 2005 10:40:40 48,854 posts
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    bainbrge wrote:
    You've just won the thread, that was astounding.

    What about people who don't have a choice about who they have sex with, i.e. lots of African women in patriarchal societies?
    Then that is society that is fucked up. At no point (AFAIK) as the catholic faith said "You shall have sex with many many women if they like it or not".

    If they did, well... that's pretty fucked up. :)
  • Clive_Dunn 1 Apr 2005 10:41:03 4,780 posts
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    RubyRed wrote:
    bainbrge wrote:
    I can't imagine there are that many people (in this society) who see the treatment of women in many islamic societies as acceptable. I don't want to insult you in any way, but don't you accept that the pope had a responsibility to prevent suffering by moderating his church's view on contraception? He failed to do this, and it has directly contributed towards AIDS deaths.

    Look, I wasn't saying the above in response to people's opinions on what the Pope's done, I'm just on about the immense disrespect people have on this forum for other people's beliefs. I'm not a devout Catholic or anything, but I've got my beliefs and I would never jam them down someone's throat the way people who have no beliefs at all do to me. Lord knows it's hard enough being on this forum when you're female/English/from London without people telling you that everything you've been brought up to believe in is bollocks and that you and the others who have a similar background are responsible for everything that's wrong in the world.

    That is all.

    EDIT: Lutz - sorry, not banned, but you know what I mean. Sacrificed to the lions, whatever ;)

    Edited by RubyRed at 09:34:46 01-04-2005

    I think there is a massive difference between criticising the Catholic church as an organisation and criticising someone's belief in God. Forgive me if I'm wrong but the doctrine of Papal infallability was repealed centuries ago, saying that perhaps the Pope / church is wrong in its stance on a number of issues isn't an attack on God or an individuals beliefs.
  • Retroid Moderator 1 Apr 2005 10:41:27 44,729 posts
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    He's an old bloke who has truly been through a lot of shit health-wise. I just hope that anyone in the same position doesn't have to linger much longer in pain.

    That is all.
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