The Pope Page 14

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  • jonsaan 16 Sep 2010 20:48:48 25,326 posts
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    Nice post steellam. Mod to reception please.

    FCUTA!

  • FWB 16 Sep 2010 20:49:02 43,853 posts
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    The minute you have some "greater good" you are supposed to be striving to, is the minute you start devaluing life.
  • Chopsen 16 Sep 2010 20:55:57 15,727 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    The minute you have some "greater good" you are supposed to be striving to, is the minute you start devaluing life.

    Erm, really?
  • FWB 16 Sep 2010 20:57:12 43,853 posts
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    Name me a regime where the "greater good" did not result in massive deaths?
  • Stickman 16 Sep 2010 20:58:16 29,661 posts
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    Tau.

    No, wait...

    THIS SPACE FOR RENT

  • jonsaan 16 Sep 2010 20:59:38 25,326 posts
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    The Village People.

    FCUTA!

  • LionheartDJH 16 Sep 2010 20:59:54 19,359 posts
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    Don't Buddhists believe that this life is crap (Dukha I think they call it) and that there's something a lot higher waiting for you if you achieve Enlightenment?

    And they're generally pretty peaceful are they not FWB?

    She dives for cheese pasties

  • Chopsen 16 Sep 2010 21:01:59 15,727 posts
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    Socialised heath care (someone's got to pay for it), public sewage works (someone's got to live by them), public funded education (as above), public funding of the arts, rationing of limited resources in tax breaks according to need, etc etc.

    I could go on. Surely if the "greater good" results in "massive deaths" it was not for the greater good by definition, no?
  • Rusty_M 16 Sep 2010 21:04:23 4,584 posts
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    LionheartDJH wrote:
    Don't Buddhists believe that this life is crap (Dukha I think they call it) and that there's something a lot higher waiting for you if you achieve Enlightenment?

    And they're generally pretty peaceful are they not FWB?
    Some of their monks are pretty good at fighting! j/k

    The world is going mad. Me? I'm doing fine.

  • FWB 16 Sep 2010 21:06:38 43,853 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    Socialised heath care (someone's got to pay for it), public sewage works (someone's got to live by them), public funded education (as above), public funding of the arts, rationing of limited resources in tax breaks according to need, etc etc.

    I could go on. Surely if the "greater good" results in "massive deaths" it was not for the greater good by definition, no?

    I placed it in brackets for a very, very good reason. Public works is not exactly what I'm talking about.
  • Deleted user 16 September 2010 21:08:28
    So basically, if you narrow the category down to just those that result in massive deaths, then it's hard to find one that doesn't result in massive deaths. Gotcha.
  • FWB 16 Sep 2010 21:10:18 43,853 posts
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    Err no, that's not what I said.
  • Deleted user 16 September 2010 21:14:20
    You'll probably need to clarify it, this time without putting things in brackets to exclude everything that contradicts your statement.

    (ps, these - " - aren't brackets)
  • FWB 16 Sep 2010 21:16:55 43,853 posts
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    Okay, since you seem to be struggling... by "greater good" I was referring to a single ideological goal, manifested in/by the state (or perhaps a institution such as the church). It's really not that difficult to figure out, since everyone else got it.
  • nickthegun 16 Sep 2010 21:20:20 58,851 posts
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    NHS? Although, technically, that resulted in massive deaths by virtue of people dyign in hospital.

    Damn... this IS hard...

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • LionheartDJH 16 Sep 2010 21:22:31 19,359 posts
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    Rusty_M wrote:
    LionheartDJH wrote:
    Don't Buddhists believe that this life is crap (Dukha I think they call it) and that there's something a lot higher waiting for you if you achieve Enlightenment?

    And they're generally pretty peaceful are they not FWB?
    Some of their monks are pretty good at fighting! j/k

    Heh, true.

    She dives for cheese pasties

  • Stickman 16 Sep 2010 21:22:39 29,661 posts
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    NHS doesn't count. Brackets.

    THIS SPACE FOR RENT

  • Deleted user 16 September 2010 21:22:56
    FWB wrote:
    I was referring to a single ideological goal, manifested in/by the state.

    So Chopsen's examples don't count because....?
  • Chopsen 16 Sep 2010 21:23:01 15,727 posts
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    "Single ideological goal manifested by in/by the state" would still include all my examples above (the state should ensure the greatest health/sanitation/etc as an ideology).

    Or are you objecting to the very nature of an organised state? Are you advocating anarchy?

    edit: blindingly slow in typing tonight
  • FWB 16 Sep 2010 21:25:18 43,853 posts
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    No it doesn't include it. If you think it does then you really need to go back and read up on concepts of statehood and sovereignty. While it is no doubt a specific policy, the NHS is not the foundation of the state.

    And of course I'm supporting anarchy. That's exactly what I said in my posts. You guys to brush up on your reading skills.
  • Chopsen 16 Sep 2010 21:30:48 15,727 posts
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    Wait, what? What exactly do you mean by greater good? Everybody else seems to have a very different idea of that than you do.

    Obviously NHS is not a founding principle of our society, but our society exists as a state with principles, and the nhs would not have existed without the machinations of that state's principles (democratic process says "Socialised health care, I chose you!")

    Restrictive autocratic ideological systems do cause harm, but "greater good" != restrictive autocratic ideology.

    Or something.
  • Deleted user 16 September 2010 21:30:49
    FWB wrote:
    You guys to brush up on your reading skills.

    With language skills like this, I'm amazed we didn't decipher your posts within the first few characters.
  • FWB 16 Sep 2010 21:32:56 43,853 posts
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    Please tell, what single ideological cause is our society based on, Chopsen?
  • nickthegun 16 Sep 2010 21:34:09 58,851 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    No it doesn't include it. If you think it does then you really need to go back and read up on concepts of statehood and sovereignty. While it is no doubt a specific policy, the NHS is not the foundation of the state.

    think the concept of universal health care does count. or at least it did before you started typing other words that make even less sense.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • Deleted user 16 September 2010 21:34:10
    FWB wrote:
    Please tell, what single ideological cause is our society based on, Chopsen?

    "The greater good".
  • FWB 16 Sep 2010 21:34:46 43,853 posts
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    Boy, you're simple. :)
  • LionheartDJH 16 Sep 2010 21:36:25 19,359 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    FWB wrote:
    No it doesn't include it. If you think it does then you really need to go back and read up on concepts of statehood and sovereignty. While it is no doubt a specific policy, the NHS is not the foundation of the state.

    think the concept of universal health care does count. or at least it did before you started typing other words that make even less sense.

    He's supporting anarchy, he obviously doesn't like things that make sense.

    She dives for cheese pasties

  • Deleted user 16 September 2010 21:37:35
    Anarchy is the only ideology that doesn't result in massive deaths.
  • FWB 16 Sep 2010 21:37:57 43,853 posts
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    How on earth does the NHS equate to the concept of statehood?
  • Chopsen 16 Sep 2010 21:38:44 15,727 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    Please tell, what single ideological cause is our society based on, Chopsen?

    Well, our society is a bit retcon'd according to the values it "inherits" from it's history, but so is the Catholic Church. It wasn't founded with the birth of Christ, and there has been reform and alteration along the way.

    But non of this has anything to do with the slightly retard position that that "greater good" is actually "the greater harm" under a different guise!

    /genuine confused face
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