Death Page 2

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  • sport 7 May 2014 10:32:38 12,711 posts
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    Why don't you guys just get reincarnated?


    /cheats Death
    /comes back as mowgli's pants
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 7 May 2014 10:36:34 38,132 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    Statistically speaking, one of the regs is going to die early. Probably in a horrible accident. I'm going with Mr Tom.
    My brain will implode from reading your posts.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • TheBlackDog 7 May 2014 10:38:22 392 posts
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    Unfortunately, the anxious worrying about your own death and the death of others is a complete ball-ache and is really not that different to the other common anxieties. I had that anxiety when we first had kids, and after years of "peace", I noticed that the idea returned when my 18 year old left home the other day and I caught myself thinking that I'll be content if I can hang around long enough to see the other one off in 6 years.

    On the other hand, I think that philosophical thoughts about death can be "useful" and can even bring about quite significant changes in how you act and perceive the world. As Socrates said, "the unexamined life is not worth living".

    I've practiced transcendental meditation for over 20 years, and I'm not trying to sell it to anyone but I find that anxieties come and go more easily now, and don't hang around or get caught up in the mind. The rare moments of deep meditation seem to go on for an eternity, and when I come back to the "real" world, there is something that gets brought back which makes me feel differently about the point of life, the nature of death, etc.
  • DFawkes 7 May 2014 10:40:49 22,938 posts
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    sport wrote:
    Why don't you guys just get reincarnated?
    You still have to die to get reincarnated. Can't speak for anyone else, but despite it being useless at stuff, I'm pretty attached to my body. Even assuming there's such thing as a soul, I've still been using this mortal shell for around 100% of my life so far. I'd really not want to change models to something else, even if it was objectively better.

    Edited by DFawkes at 10:41:07 07-05-2014

    Oh for goodness sake, I've caught my scrotum in my zip again - Margaret Thatcher, 1986

  • Load_2.0 7 May 2014 10:41:46 19,253 posts
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    Just one person in a sea of billions. Much as my ego would love to think I might leave a dent in the world unless I murder 1000 people or get hold of a nuke the ripple that my death will cause will be limited to the immediate family and friends. That will fade after a few years and all that will remain is FB pictures of me drinking jaeger bombs at the work Christmas do with no pants on.

    That is my legacy and it glorious!


    Today the sun is shining and I am alive.

    Carpe Diem gheylords.
  • Deckard1 7 May 2014 10:50:13 27,981 posts
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    Even i you only killed 20 people you'd still make a fair dint, generationally speaking. Something to think about.
  • zoolophage 7 May 2014 11:11:53 1,729 posts
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    My take on it is that the universe existed for billions of years before I did. I was not alive then and it was ok. I will hopefully live a bit longer and then things will go back to how they were before I was alive. That's ok.

    I do worry a bit about how my wife would cope if I died but I guess she'd get along ok in the end. We only live once (afaik) and should try to make the most of it by doing whatever seems worthwhile. I myself try to cultivate a sense of peaceful satisfaction and not lose sight of the big picture and the wonder that we are hear and that anything exists at rather than nothing.

    3DS: 2019-9957-3472

  • sport 7 May 2014 11:32:08 12,711 posts
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    My dad always used to say:

    "Death is but a door. Time is but a window. I'll be back."
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 7 May 2014 11:59:39 38,132 posts
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    sport wrote:
    My dad always used to say:

    "Death is but a door. Time is but a window. I'll be back."
    At least you've got that painting to remember him by.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • Madder-Max 7 May 2014 12:12:08 11,649 posts
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    I was in a coma for 3 days when I was 19 with bacterial meningitis and septacaemia (sp?) Was half an hour away from death when taken into hospital apparently.

    Came out of it with a curious wixture of feeling invincible and at peace. Went off the rails then for a couple of years with drugs etc but never once hesitated to see how far I could push things, until I got bored of the repetitious nature of drugs and the comedowns.

    Built up my life and got married, had kids and my only fear and worry about death is that ultimatley I will let my kids down because of it and will leave my wife to cope on her own (if I go first). I hate that idea.

    99 problems and being ginger is one

  • StrikeForce 7 May 2014 12:45:43 89 posts
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    Anyone in this thread that is interested in different ideas about death I'd recommend the book Sum by the neuroscientist David Eagleman. It's sort of a collection of short stories about what might happen when you die, each taking a different theme or concept based on religion, or science fiction, philosophy etc. It's entertaining, funny, profound and opens your mind to a huge variety of concepts about life, death and our place in the universe.
  • FogHeart 7 May 2014 13:34:28 946 posts
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    We get all squirly about death when we have children because the primary goal of everything alive is to propagate its genes, and to be absurdly reductive about it everything we do ultimately has that goal in mind. So we fret that unless we are very careful about staying alive our progeny will perish shortly afterwards. We still have deep anxieties over it, despite living in a civilised society with so many safety nets to catch them...I'm sure the great majority of people who lose a parent early go on to lead successful and fulfilling lives. Our instincts are left over from primitive times when one in five of us met death early at the hands of another human being.

    We all have a purpose as a member of the human race, even though we don't know what it is: even the most brain-damaged child who is pretty much guaranteed to die early has a purpose as a member of the human race, it's to keep up the spirits and occasionally put a smile on the face of a parent who needs to love them, so they in turn can keep about their own business of doing it is whatever they do that contributes to the human race in some small part.

    But for quite a while now we are past the point where all these tiny lives doing their multifarious tiny jobs were needed to keep the human race going - as a species we are self-sustaining. You and me, and everyone from politicians to athletes are all part of the support system for a comparative few people who are fumdamentally altering the definition of a human being. It's just that the support system has so many layers, and bits supporting each other in different ways.

    The people who 'are altering the definition of a human being' are the ones who change what we are capable of doing, how long we live, how rich and productive our lives are, what risks of injury and illness we are susceptible to, where in the universe we can travel to. Those who make the next generation of human beings a little bit better and happier than our one.

    So when you're staring death in the eye remember that just by existing you played your part. You made it so a parent was motivated to get up every day and contribute, you may have contributed yourself, you may have sired children who have already contributed by motivating you. I think, rather contrary to an existential angst I had right up until a couple of years ago - that as a species we will 'get there'. We'll end war, disease, poverty, we'll all lead fulfilling and interesting lives and leave the bonds of Earth for other parts: and once we do that, because that process will continue on with colonies begetting other colonies, the race will live forever, and we helped that happen.
  • LeoliansBro 7 May 2014 13:42:34 44,168 posts
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    TheBlackDog wrote:
    I've practiced transcendental meditation for over 20 years, and I'm not trying to sell it to anyone but I find that anxieties come and go more easily now, and don't hang around or get caught up in the mind. The rare moments of deep meditation seem to go on for an eternity, and when I come back to the "real" world, there is something that gets brought back which makes me feel differently about the point of life, the nature of death, etc.
    Weed does that too.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • jablonski 7 May 2014 13:47:00 4,121 posts
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    Madder-Max wrote:
    I was in a coma for 3 days when I was 19 with bacterial meningitis and septacaemia (sp?) Was half an hour away from death when taken into hospital apparently.

    Came out of it with a curious wixture of feeling invincible and at peace. Went off the rails then for a couple of years with drugs etc but never once hesitated to see how far I could push things, until I got bored of the repetitious nature of drugs and the comedowns.

    Built up my life and got married, had kids and my only fear and worry about death is that ultimatley I will let my kids down because of it and will leave my wife to cope on her own (if I go first). I hate that idea.
    Had double-pneumonia when I was 21 and was quite near death when I finally got diagnosed and taken to a hospital
    (I was in a foreign country and refusing to go to the doctor, just stayed in bed for 4 or 5 days – I thought it was bad food poisoning).

    I had a form of the ‘tunnel of light’ thing, and I can honestly say that is felt like the most reassuring and peaceful/calming feeling I have ever experienced. I would have been quite happy to slip away.

    Whenever I think of death, I just think about that (I’m not religious in the slightest).
  • TheBlackDog 7 May 2014 14:10:23 392 posts
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    @LeoliansBro I was going to offer the analogy of an mdma/acid cocktail but I thought it would undermine my mystical credentials and then you go and lower the tone anyway. And I think I must have been smoking the wrong weed too.
  • Defecationqueen 7 May 2014 14:15:45 550 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    Having kids kinda "broke" me as far as thinking about death is concerned. I'm a little bit better now, but for a while there it got to the point where I couldn't sit alone at night as I'd think about it.

    I mean, I won't give a shit once I'm dead but I don't want my life to end. I want to see everything my kids ever achieve and do, and to think I won't see all of their potential made me very... sad.

    But still, my mind works against me. I'll literally be sat reading, or driving or lying in bed etc and my mind will say to me "You'll die and you don't know when", that familiar anxious feeling hits and it'll be all I can think about for a while. I'm actually able to tell myself to stop it which seems to make it go away a lot quicker now though, so my outlook is brightening for the first time in about 4 years. Which is nice.
    You pretty much sum-up exactly how I feel about death. Prior to the birth of my child, the thought of death didn't bother me in the least. After the birth of my child I started to give a lot more thought to death - my death and theirs. My biggest concern is not being there for them, it terrifies me. I would worry about things like house fires, and not being able to save my trapped child. It's horrifying.

    I think it was Keats who said that the most painful aspect of human existence is our foresight to know that one day we/all that we love will die.
  • LeoliansBro 7 May 2014 14:15:55 44,168 posts
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    I've come up with more answers that way. I have a desk stuffed full of scrawled wisdom based on such moments of clarity.

    None of it makes sense.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 7 May 2014 14:17:44 44,168 posts
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    Defecationqueen wrote:

    I think it was Keats who said that the most painful aspect of human existence is our foresight to know that one day we/all that we love will die.
    Yeah, he was obsessed with legacy, in that whiny Romantic way he had. And then they trolled him by writing his most famous point about the brief, passing temporary nature of existence on his gravestone, where it endures to this day.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Defecationqueen 7 May 2014 14:21:50 550 posts
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    I've often envied religious fundamentalists for their certainty of an afterlife. It must be deeply reassuring believing in an afterlife.

    On a different point, I read an article in the Mail the other day that said the NHS is considering prioritising expensive cancer treatment for young people over the old. Personally, I'm happy for this measure to be enacted. Many in the comments section were not. What do you all think of the proposal?
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 7 May 2014 14:35:13 38,132 posts
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    You know what? Another way I'm completely broken is when it comes to watching TV/film where kids are in danger of any sort. Especially kidnapping, and especially girls. Started watching Grimm on Tuesday and the pilot episode has a young blonde girl was kidnapped. It gets my panicky parental instinct going and I suddenly have that little voice that wants to fight and save them!

    News stories get to me as well, I used to be fucking dead to it all. Damn this empathy!

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • MrTomFTW Moderator 7 May 2014 14:36:13 38,132 posts
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    Defecationqueen wrote:
    I've often envied religious fundamentalists for their certainty of an afterlife. It must be deeply reassuring believing in an afterlife.
    Suddenly the "why" of people turning to religion makes sense doesn't it? Anything to comfort us about the inevitable.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • Steve_Perry 7 May 2014 14:40:12 4,149 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    Defecationqueen wrote:
    I've often envied religious fundamentalists for their certainty of an afterlife. It must be deeply reassuring believing in an afterlife.
    Suddenly the "why" of people turning to religion makes sense doesn't it? Anything to comfort us about the inevitable.
    I don't really like this guy as a 'personality', and the way the internet bum him (as I am about to), but this is one of my favourite quotes about death:

    “I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime” Neil deGrasse Tyson

    That's reincarnation for me and I would be content knowing that I have returned to the earth.

    Edited by Steve_Perry at 14:40:33 07-05-2014

    VIVA STEFANSEN

  • stryker1121 7 May 2014 14:40:38 692 posts
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    @LegacySystem Has mindful meditation helped you? Would much appreciate if you could point me toward a good primer for it. Could certainly use some quiet mind time these days :-)
  • zoolophage 7 May 2014 14:44:26 1,729 posts
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    Headspace is a good website to learn meditation. My wife has been doing it for 2 years (20 minutes daily...without missing a day!) and it has helped her. Costs about £60 a year but well worth it and they're about to add a lot of new content very soon.

    3DS: 2019-9957-3472

  • DUFFMAN5 7 May 2014 14:48:52 14,661 posts
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    I cant bear the thought of leaving my kids :(
    I dont plan on dieing until Im 86, otherwise I will be most upset! my kids will be into their 50's with their own families I would hope. It will still break my heart saying goodbye.

    "Duffman the grey is thrusting in the direction of the problem! Oh, yeah!"

  • Deleted user 7 May 2014 16:04:44
    @stryker1121 This place has a 5 day introductory course if you're interested. You can find many such sites on the internet that can take you further than the Intro Course. You can also tend to find meditation courses in your local town which I'd recommend as its a different experience.

    Its helped me a great deal to be honest and I tend to meditate each lunch time during work. It gives me calm. There was also a program on TV where they proved that 6 weeks of mindfulness meditation increased brain activity in those areas of the brain that are associated with happiness. I find it has helped an awful lot in just keeping me in "now" and no longer dwelling on what I screwed up in the past or what is going to happen in the morning at work. I find if I wake with my mind full of "crap" in the night, I can settle it and get back to sleep with the meditation where before my mind would be racing.

    I only do about 10 minutes a day. I've been recommended 10 minutes morning (sets you up for the day) and night (ends the day and helps you sleep), but I'm not that organised.

    I'm still a worrier at times, but it takes more to get to me and my g/f says she's not met anyone so calm and positive... and I know for a fact I was a stressed up miserable git in the past! :)
  • Deleted user 7 May 2014 16:06:46
    DUFFMAN5 wrote:
    I cant bear the thought of leaving my kids :(
    I dont plan on dieing until Im 86, otherwise I will be most upset! my kids will be into their 50's with their own families I would hope. It will still break my heart saying goodbye.
    Wait until your kids hit 18, they say goodbye to you...

    I know my girls have just "vanished" into the void that is Facebook and Uni.
  • Deleted user 7 May 2014 16:14:05
    This BBC article about aging might help people come to terms with the inevitable a little better.
  • DrStrangelove 7 May 2014 18:06:42 3,925 posts
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    Thought a lot about it over the years, but stopped at some point when I didn't go anywhere anymore with my thoughts.


    Psychologically, there's something of you living on (more or less depending on your life), your deeds, creations, impressions you made on others, things that others learned from you etc.; or simply family and friends who will hold you in dear memory (hopefully) and keep photographs of you, thinking of you and about what you told them, taught them etc. Like you may have a picture of your uncle who meant a lot to you and still means a lot to you, in a sense he's living on inside your mind. Not literally like an immortal spirit, but I think symbolically it's related. I actually think our ancestors believed in souls of the dead still being alive and around, just like we try to keep memories alive and can't accept that not only the mortal body, but the whole being, the whole existence was undone as if it never existed.

    If you die, for you it probably won't matter anymore, it won't make a difference if you ever existed or what you did. For the living, you'll have made some impact on the world they're living in, some huge, some small, and more often than not only superficially small.

    It really depends if you follow your (usually natural) feeling that you want good to your fellows and relatives after your death, or not care at all what happens later. I mean, for you theoretically it makes not the slightest difference after your death if your wife/husband/children will be tortured to death by whoever, but I don't think there are a lot of people who really don't care about that. Usually, by nature, people have wishes for what happens after their death, even if superficially it wouldn't make a difference for them really, except for making the time before death more or less enjoyable.



    But then, if you think about it biologically, there's actually good reason to care about what happens after your death, and it's not by accident that most do instinctively imo.

    You, as an individual, cease to exist, but if you procreated, your genes live on, or if your closer relatives did, a smaller part of your genes lives on. What lives on through the ages is the genes, and in the end every creature is a vessel, or a huge machine or whatever, with the purpose to ensure the living on of the genes. Well, like this it's maybe a bit misleading, genes aren't a parasite that uses you, you are your genes and they are you, except that they can live on by mixing with someone else's genes, and that your relatives with some shared genes are partially you, so to speak.

    And so it's only natural (in many cases it is at least, especially among animals) to protect your offspring with your life, because they're more important for "your" ongoing existence than you are yourself. Or even protect your relatives with your life, because genetically they are at least partially you, and their survival is a triumph for your shared genes.

    Long story short: Biologically, it'd be self-destructive to not care about what happens after your death, and so we have a natural tendency to care. Not caring should be something that goes fundamentally against our instinct.



    And then, other than animals, humans have developed a different way of living on, not of genes, but of the actual individual. By speech, teachings, learnings, and culture. Living on by leaving a creation behind is probably at core some psychological substitute/parallel for living on genetically, and humans have developed a desire to live on not only genetically, but also culturally. We have developed the possibility to live on (in some way) not only as an intermittent carrier of genes, but individually. Some of us died but became culturally immortal.



    And then again, when everything's too much and you just want everything to end, you can still remind yourself that for you personally, immediately, nothing will matter, nothing before and nothing after. And once mankind has ceased, nothing will matter genetically and culturally. By means of cold reason, death is the ultimate, inevitable nothingness that annihilates everything that ever was. On the individual level, your death is the undoing of the whole universe, past, present and future.


    Really depends on what you wish, or want to put your emphasis on, I suppose.
  • DrStrangelove 7 May 2014 18:10:50 3,925 posts
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    Btw, Symbolic is fucking awesome.
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