Ponomusic - new "HD" music player and store Page 3

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  • mrpon 12 Mar 2014 13:17:34 28,914 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    THFourteen wrote:
    i'm alright with my crappy music quality thanks.

    When you're on a train shit sounds crap however its recorded.
    This is bollocks really. A half decent pair of headphones that isolate noise will mean it doesn't really matter what environment you listen to music in.
    But I'm not going to wear them running or down the gym, which for me is my main music intake.

    Give yourself 5 or gig, you're worth it.

  • mal 12 Mar 2014 13:19:15 22,536 posts
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    If you listen to a MP3 or a FLAC of the same song on your iDevice through Apple headphones, you're less likely to be able to tell the difference between the two.

    I still buy CD and rip to FLAC personally (then transcode to MP3/whatever). Sometimes the MP3 version of obscure stuff is cheaper than the CD version, but often there's not a lot in it, and you can do so much more with uncompressed 44.1kHzx16bit. 192kHzx24bit might be nicer, but I'm not sure I could really tell the difference personally.

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  • Mr_Sleep 12 Mar 2014 13:21:09 17,064 posts
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    CosmicFuzz wrote:
    I was chatting to a guy doing a phD in linguistic stuff, and he said that although the sound quality on LPs was technically of a better quality than CDs, it was impossible to detect the increase in quality with the human ear.

    I've never listened to proper "HD" music, but is there an actual, proper difference worth the money?
    It's a complicated subject, it is impossible to hear above a certain frequency, in theory we hear 20hz to 20KHz but actually most people can't really hear much above 15-16KHz. So there is a range of sounds that aren't represented to the human ear, this is one issue.

    The issue with LP vs digital relates more to the rounding off of information to fit into the binary method, digital has to lop off small amounts of information that LPs don't. Also, due to the way that harmonics work the information that is outside of what we hear still affects the information that we can hear so while the sound that is outside our ability to hear isn't technically audible it can still play a part.

    A lot of it is opinion tbh, I think LPs sound better but I think there is a certain level of fetish around LPs. I have blind done comparisons between high quality MP3, CD and studio quality recordings and there is a noticeable difference but I have never done blind comparisons between LP and CD and I suspect the difference is fairly negligible.

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  • Mr_Sleep 12 Mar 2014 13:24:12 17,064 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    I don't really believe in supporting niche enterprises just for the sake of it tbh. I buy from whoever best addresses my needs as a consumer.
    Fair enough, I was just curious because I always tend towards the niche wherever possible because I'd rather support smaller businesses but that's probably a different philosophical position, also I have found in the past that the niche tends to address my needs in a better way as well as me getting some kind of smug middle class glow about the whole thing ;-)

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • CosmicFuzz 12 Mar 2014 13:24:14 24,353 posts
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    mrpon wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    THFourteen wrote:
    i'm alright with my crappy music quality thanks.

    When you're on a train shit sounds crap however its recorded.
    This is bollocks really. A half decent pair of headphones that isolate noise will mean it doesn't really matter what environment you listen to music in.
    But I'm not going to wear them running or down the gym, which for me is my main music intake.
    This is it, really. If I wanted to hear some really great music I'd probably rather have it through proper speakers at home. No chance I care enough about it to a) get those speakers, or b) get equivalent headphones. Especially if I'm running/gymming, it's perfectly good enough as it is for me.

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  • tincanrocket 12 Mar 2014 13:29:05 3,000 posts
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    I know loads of people who only listen to music when they're commuting, at the gym, or in the car. In fact, I'm increasingly like that myself - I find I listen to more audiobooks these days (currently about 3/4 of the way through Shirer's History of the Third Reich)
  • kalel 12 Mar 2014 13:29:14 87,687 posts
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    CosmicFuzz wrote:
    mrpon wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    THFourteen wrote:
    i'm alright with my crappy music quality thanks.

    When you're on a train shit sounds crap however its recorded.
    This is bollocks really. A half decent pair of headphones that isolate noise will mean it doesn't really matter what environment you listen to music in.
    But I'm not going to wear them running or down the gym, which for me is my main music intake.
    This is it, really. If I wanted to hear some really great music I'd probably rather have it through proper speakers at home. No chance I care enough about it to a) get those speakers, or b) get equivalent headphones. Especially if I'm running/gymming, it's perfectly good enough as it is for me.
    The only point I was objecting to what the idea that all music sounds shit on a train regardless. Again, it's simply bollocks.

    That has no bearing on what choices individuals make as to when or where they want good quality audio.

    FWIW I use a pretty decent pair of in-ear noise isolating headphones in the gym. Why not? They're the very same headphones I use on the Tube in fact.
  • Armoured_Bear 12 Mar 2014 13:31:39 11,239 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    CosmicFuzz wrote:
    mrpon wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    THFourteen wrote:
    i'm alright with my crappy music quality thanks.

    When you're on a train shit sounds crap however its recorded.
    This is bollocks really. A half decent pair of headphones that isolate noise will mean it doesn't really matter what environment you listen to music in.
    But I'm not going to wear them running or down the gym, which for me is my main music intake.
    This is it, really. If I wanted to hear some really great music I'd probably rather have it through proper speakers at home. No chance I care enough about it to a) get those speakers, or b) get equivalent headphones. Especially if I'm running/gymming, it's perfectly good enough as it is for me.
    The only point I was objecting to what the idea that all music sounds shit on a train regardless. Again, it's simply bollocks.

    That has no bearing on what choices individuals make as to when or where they want good quality audio.

    FWIW I use a pretty decent pair of in-ear noise isolating headphones in the gym. Why not? They're the very same headphones I use on the Tube in fact.
    Kalel's totally right.

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  • Armoured_Bear 12 Mar 2014 13:32:35 11,239 posts
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    Vinyl and occasionally CD when listening at home.
    Lossless streaming at home when people are round
    Lossless files are transcoded to AAC when updating iPhone to listen on the move.
    That's what works for me :-)

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  • Mr_Sleep 12 Mar 2014 13:33:08 17,064 posts
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    tincanrocket wrote:
    when the iPod took off it was because of the convenience it offered over CDs etc.,
    The ipod took off due to it hitting the right notes of style and accessibility, there were other, better quality and cheaper things out there at the time but Apple got the style just right and that won out over everything else.


    edit: I actually think that my tinnitus is equally attributable to damned fans on server and switch cabinets, having worked in server rooms for many years - I always seem to have a vague high pitched electrical whine in my poor ears, but everyone tells me it's my fault for playing in bands etc.
    That is actually a fair shout to some degree, tinnitus is generally caused by long exposure rather than short bursts of loud noise. If I recall correctly it's something like 5-6 hours at 89db or above which is linked to tinnitus. Tinnitus is caused by the hairs which vibrate snapping off or being permanently stuck down, they're set to a certain frequency so it could be that the frequency matches your assumption.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Armoured_Bear 12 Mar 2014 13:33:44 11,239 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    I don't really believe in supporting niche enterprises just for the sake of it tbh. I buy from whoever best addresses my needs as a consumer.
    Fair enough, I was just curious because I always tend towards the niche wherever possible because I'd rather support smaller businesses but that's probably a different philosophical position, also I have found in the past that the niche tends to address my needs in a better way as well as me getting some kind of smug middle class glow about the whole thing ;-)
    You can't underestimate the worth of that "smug middle class glow "...

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  • kalel 12 Mar 2014 13:35:43 87,687 posts
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    But what do you do when a niche enterprise that you like addresses a need so well it becomes massively successful and grows into a huge corporation with a virtual monopoly?

    You know...like Apple...
  • Mr_Sleep 12 Mar 2014 13:40:47 17,064 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    But what do you do when a niche enterprise that you like addresses a need so well it becomes massively successful and grows into a huge corporation with a virtual monopoly?

    You know...like Apple...
    Then you move to the next niche enterprise because that one has become too big, I have done the same with Amazon, they used to do all the things I needed, then there was the revelations about tax - which applies to Apple too - and I changed my retailer of choice.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Tom_Servo 12 Mar 2014 13:40:49 17,953 posts
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    I simply go for who offers me the best price, whether that's iTunes, Amazon, Boomkat or Bandcamp. Perhaps not the most ethical position with regards to things like tax (I have a lot of respect for people who manage to boycott Amazon, it's basically mission impossible as far as I'm concerned), but there you go.

    Although, I should say, it's very rarely iTunes. They're pretty expensive in comparison to basically all their competitors, although I guess the way it's integrated into the program means people will just click buy in that rather than shopping around.
  • CosmicFuzz 12 Mar 2014 13:46:26 24,353 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    CosmicFuzz wrote:
    mrpon wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    THFourteen wrote:
    i'm alright with my crappy music quality thanks.

    When you're on a train shit sounds crap however its recorded.
    This is bollocks really. A half decent pair of headphones that isolate noise will mean it doesn't really matter what environment you listen to music in.
    But I'm not going to wear them running or down the gym, which for me is my main music intake.
    This is it, really. If I wanted to hear some really great music I'd probably rather have it through proper speakers at home. No chance I care enough about it to a) get those speakers, or b) get equivalent headphones. Especially if I'm running/gymming, it's perfectly good enough as it is for me.
    The only point I was objecting to what the idea that all music sounds shit on a train regardless. Again, it's simply bollocks.

    That has no bearing on what choices individuals make as to when or where they want good quality audio.

    FWIW I use a pretty decent pair of in-ear noise isolating headphones in the gym. Why not? They're the very same headphones I use on the Tube in fact.
    Kalel's totally right.
    Sorry, I wasn't saying that there's no way to have good noise isolating headphones that make your music sounds as good as it can be. You're totally right. I just meant that for me, I wouldn't bother spending the money on super expensive headphones - mainly because I seem to have borked my last two pairs through sweating in them after monster runs (pretty horrible, I know). I'd be terrified of breaking them.

    Although I've had a play around with the noise-cancelling Bose headphones in John Lewis and they do sound amazing. I can totally see why folk would buy them. Just can't justify the cost/reason right now.

    Edited by CosmicFuzz at 13:47:06 12-03-2014

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  • nickthegun 12 Mar 2014 13:51:44 59,932 posts
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    I just use Spotify, tbh. 320kbps OGG is fine for what I have as I no longer have equipment to take advantage of higher fidelity and I cant really see that changing in the near future.

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  • kalel 12 Mar 2014 13:57:31 87,687 posts
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    You can btw get yourself a pretty ok pair of noise isolating headphones for maybe 25-30. I'm really not talking about something with noise-cancelling tech or whatever. Anything with a good seal will mean background noise is minimal.

    Noise cancelling is imo a bit of a nonsense. It degrades the quality of the music and is not really that important if the seal is good. In fact it's more useful for when you don't want to listen to music.
  • Tom_Servo 12 Mar 2014 13:58:10 17,953 posts
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    I'm not really a fan of streaming services like Spotify for a few reasons that I've probably gone into before.

    1) They don't give enough money to the artists, IMHO (this is why my preferred service is Bandcamp)
    2) While we can have a debate about whether you really 'own' digital files, they're at least stored locally on your hard drive. With streaming services in general you're at the mercy of licensing. It's not uncommon for artists to have their music removed from things like Spotify now.

    For 'try before you buy' I just use album streams on places like NPR or Pitchfork or use YouTube for stuff that's already been released.
  • CosmicFuzz 12 Mar 2014 14:03:21 24,353 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    You can btw get yourself a pretty ok pair of noise isolating headphones for maybe 25-30. I'm really not talking about something with noise-cancelling tech or whatever. Anything with a good seal will mean background noise is minimal.

    Noise cancelling is imo a bit of a nonsense. It degrades the quality of the music and is not really that important if the seal is good. In fact it's more useful for when you don't want to listen to music.
    That the type of earphone that you squeeze and let it expand in your ear? If that's the price, I could be tempted actually. For some reason I've always had trouble with in-ear phones staying in, which is a right pain in the arse when running. Always had to use sports ones that loop over the ear. Might have a look.

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  • kalel 12 Mar 2014 14:04:36 87,687 posts
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    It's any type of headphone that produces a seal. Could be over-ear, on-ear or in-ear. All can do it.
  • nickthegun 12 Mar 2014 14:16:41 59,932 posts
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    Tom_Servo wrote:
    I'm not really a fan of streaming services like Spotify for a few reasons that I've probably gone into before.

    1) They don't give enough money to the artists, IMHO (this is why my preferred service is Bandcamp)
    2) While we can have a debate about whether you really 'own' digital files, they're at least stored locally on your hard drive. With streaming services in general you're at the mercy of licensing. It's not uncommon for artists to have their music removed from things like Spotify now.

    For 'try before you buy' I just use album streams on places like NPR or Pitchfork or use YouTube for stuff that's already been released.
    I dont really care about either of those, tbh. I dont really lose sleep over the artist situation and ive reached an almost zen like state where I not really that fussed about owning things.

    Yeah, it sucks when people like four tet take their stuff off spotify but i can console myself by listening to one of the other billion artists that do put their stuff up.

    For someone who is a bit of a magpie and a bit schizophrenic with the stuff I listen to, its ideal.

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  • Armoured_Bear 12 Mar 2014 14:20:45 11,239 posts
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    Tom_Servo wrote:
    I'm not really a fan of streaming services like Spotify for a few reasons that I've probably gone into before.

    1) They don't give enough money to the artists, IMHO (this is why my preferred service is Bandcamp)
    2) While we can have a debate about whether you really 'own' digital files, they're at least stored locally on your hard drive. With streaming services in general you're at the mercy of licensing. It's not uncommon for artists to have their music removed from things like Spotify now.

    For 'try before you buy' I just use album streams on places like NPR or Pitchfork or use YouTube for stuff that's already been released.
    I use as my "try before you buy" source as it's so convenient and easy.
    Anything I like will be bought on vinyl.

    XBL : ecosse011172
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  • graysonavich 12 Mar 2014 14:24:23 7,352 posts
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    Ah yes, the cool kid version of the 30 vs 60 fps argument
  • Mr_Sleep 12 Mar 2014 14:36:28 17,064 posts
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    I would caution against using in-ear headphones as they are not good for the health of your hearing.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Salaman 12 Mar 2014 14:37:52 19,063 posts
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    I read it as ponomusic the first time I entered the thread but now I keep seeing pornomusic on the front page. Arhg!

    /goes off for a stealthy wank in the bogs at work
  • Fake_Blood 12 Mar 2014 14:41:10 4,209 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    PearOfAnguish wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Bring back SACD I say.
    That might well be one of the most pointless formats to ever exist.
    It really was rubbish and I speak as the owner of this 25KG monster
    Love the styling of old gear like this. They look like props from an 80s sci-fi movie.
    It's utterly obscene, it weighs more than my Power Amps or Home Cinema Receiver.
    The build quality is amazing though, I'd probably get a great price for it if I hadn't dropped the puck and slightly dented it :-(
    Ah well, I only tried a few sacd's on my ps3 and thought it sounded really good. Surround sound and everything.
  • kalel 12 Mar 2014 14:41:48 87,687 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    I would caution against using in-ear headphones as they are not good for the health of your hearing.
    There is some debate about that, although you definitely can do damage to your ears with in-ear headphones.

    But there is also a point of view that a pair of good quality in-ear headphones with a good seal will result in your listening to music at much lower volumes.

    So I think it probably depends on the headphones. But yes, you're in danger of damaging your hearing with shit ones. You may even find yourself turning them up even louder.
  • mal 12 Mar 2014 14:47:06 22,536 posts
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    I think a combination of ear sealing and active noise cancelling would work best. I've a pair of cheapish Sony over-ear noise cancellers I bought in the sales a while back that do nothing do stop you hearing people talking or so on, but really cut down on engine noise on planes and trains. A seal on the other hand is unlikely to be able to do much about powerful low frequency bass notes which will just resonate your whole ear, the headphones and probably your skull a bit too.

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  • kalel 12 Mar 2014 14:51:33 87,687 posts
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    I've never really had a problem with powerful low frequency bass notes making my ear and skull resonate on trains and planes. Not that I've noticed anyway.

    There's engine noise sure, but I find the combination of noise-sealing headphones and music playing through them blocks that out.

    Again, if you don't listen to music, then I can see the point of noise-cancelling. Generally though I think it's a bit of an expensive gimmick, plus I hate having to power my headphones separately.
  • Mr_Sleep 12 Mar 2014 14:53:29 17,064 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    But there is also a point of view that a pair of good quality in-ear headphones with a good seal will result in your listening to music at much lower volumes.
    It's not an unreasonable argument. I contend that even with good quality ones you are still forcing a lot of sound pressure on your ears and with prolonged use it can lead to, at the very least, ear fatigue. I would be quite interested to know if my supposition has any weight though as one of my lecturers at uni was very against in-ear headphones and his argument came back to the fatigue and sound pressure argument but he didn't have too much proof.

    You are a factory of sadness.

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