Guy Fawkes protests - why is a suicide bomber held in such high regard

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  • LetsGo 6 Nov 2013 12:59:19 5,270 posts
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    Why is Guy Fawkes, a guy who hated the political system and wanted to kill innocent civilians instead of going through democratic means, held in such high regard by protesters who are protesting about political change?

    Could the same be said about Taliban suicide bombers who want to change political systems in Afghanistan?

    Both are wrong and should not be celebrated in this way IMO.

    Edited by LetsGo at 13:01:53 06-11-2013
  • Deckard1 6 Nov 2013 13:00:56 28,700 posts
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    Its celebrating him failing you mong. Hence why you throw him on a fire.
  • Deckard1 6 Nov 2013 13:02:03 28,700 posts
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    Which isn't what you were talking about but hey. He's a symbol of revolution, thats it really.

    Edited by Deckard1 at 13:02:20 06-11-2013
  • LetsGo 6 Nov 2013 13:03:01 5,270 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    Its celebrating him failing you mong. Hence why you throw him on a fire.
    I am not talking about that, I'm talking about the protests outside parliament with people wearing Guy Fawkes masks, celebrating how is was a hero for political change.
  • LetsGo 6 Nov 2013 13:03:27 5,270 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    Which isn't what you were talking about but hey. He's a symbol of revolution, thats it really.
    Fair enough :). But that's not right right way to go about revolution.

    Edited by LetsGo at 13:03:59 06-11-2013
  • neilka 6 Nov 2013 13:04:10 16,239 posts
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    I think it's from a film or something.
  • Mr_Sleep 6 Nov 2013 13:05:46 17,177 posts
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    V for Vendetta innit.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • LeoliansBro 6 Nov 2013 13:06:39 44,505 posts
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    He wasn't a suicide bomber.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • DFawkes 6 Nov 2013 13:09:55 23,315 posts
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    Wasn't it less to do with revolution, and more to do with simply killing the Protestant King and replacing him with someone Catholic instead? Also what LB said.

    Oh for goodness sake, I've caught my scrotum in my zip again - Margaret Thatcher, 1986

  • LeoliansBro 6 Nov 2013 13:10:43 44,505 posts
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    More about killing the Catholic King, or have I got mixed up (James I wasn't it?).

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LetsGo 6 Nov 2013 13:12:52 5,270 posts
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    DFawkes wrote:
    Wasn't it less to do with revolution, and more to do with simply killing the Protestant King and replacing him with someone Catholic instead? Also what LB said.
    He intended to destroy parliament whilst it was in session including killing himself.

    That is a suicide bomber.

    He said that under torture so you could argue he just said it.
  • Deleted user 6 November 2013 13:12:59
    The revolution part mainly comes from V for vendetta. People getting the two mixed up.

    Edited by SG59 at 13:13:58 06-11-2013
  • Deckard1 6 Nov 2013 13:13:02 28,700 posts
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    He's a symbol of CHANGE.

    Either that or a bunch of students going through their rebellious stage thought it looked cool in V for Vendetta.

    Edited by Deckard1 at 13:14:26 06-11-2013
  • craigy Staff 6 Nov 2013 13:14:22 7,718 posts
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    Bit of a mixup going on here.
  • Kew1Melon 6 Nov 2013 13:16:13 409 posts
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    The mask is used as a symbol of political descent. In the film, V blows up a corrupt governing body. He's an extreme voice of the people.

    You have an imagination barrier.

  • LeoliansBro 6 Nov 2013 13:17:41 44,505 posts
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    I'd never heard before that Guy Fawkes planned on killing himself.

    Also, if you're talking about VfV, the Guy mask was used by Anonymous to obscure identity (and provide a common image associated with disruption and subversion) rather than celebrate Guy Fawkes, and has sort of filtered through to the wider world from that. Might as well ask where any internet meme comes from. Or why Starbucks uses a mermaid on their logo - 400 years ago they were seen as dangerous creatures luring sailors to their deaths.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • nickthegun 6 Nov 2013 13:17:58 60,428 posts
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    Ironically, the guy fawkes mask things comes from the wachowskis misunderstanding the point of V for Vendetta.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Deleted user 6 November 2013 13:20:07
    @LetsGo He was simply there to watch the gunpowder and light the fuse when parliament opened. He got caught though.

    Guy Fawkes was one of a small group of Catholics who felt that the government was treating Roman Catholics unfairly. They hoped that King James 1st would change the laws, but he didn't. So they took action.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 6 Nov 2013 13:23:05 38,651 posts
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    According to Wikipedia the plan was to light the fuse and scarper across the Thames. But hey, Wikipedia so you never know.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_Plot#Monteagle_letter

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • Shikasama 6 Nov 2013 13:23:14 6,958 posts
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    James was a Calvinist. Although it's technically a branch of Protestantism it's considered bad form to label him as such as he was like, a proto-calvinist.
  • DFawkes 6 Nov 2013 13:25:06 23,315 posts
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    LetsGo wrote:
    He intended to destroy parliament whilst it was in session including killing himself.
    Ah, I wasn't aware of that. I'd always thought it likely he intended not to be blow up, hence him being found with a pocket watch to time the fuses properly. I'd have thought if you're really intending to blow up with it, you'd do it manually to ensure you've done it right.

    Just conjecture on my part, obviously. It just seems if he was a suicide bomber, he wasn't a very good one (assuming he hadn't been caught, obviously). But that could've been just to time the secondary explosions, so I suppose it could've been either way.

    Oh for goodness sake, I've caught my scrotum in my zip again - Margaret Thatcher, 1986

  • RedSparrows 6 Nov 2013 13:25:31 23,247 posts
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    LetsGo strikes again.
  • vijay_UK 6 Nov 2013 13:26:16 2,258 posts
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    @DFawkes

    You're not related are you, by chance?
  • Tonka 6 Nov 2013 13:27:02 20,776 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    V for Vendetta innit.

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • LeoliansBro 6 Nov 2013 13:27:58 44,505 posts
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    Shikasama wrote:
    James was a Calvinist. Although it's technically a branch of Protestantism it's considered bad form to label him as such as he was like, a proto-calvinist.
    I've realised how thick I was in thinking him a Catholic, cheers for the extra info though.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • StarchildHypocrethes 6 Nov 2013 13:28:21 26,138 posts
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    RIP Guy Fawkes
  • Cappy 6 Nov 2013 13:29:03 12,020 posts
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    Guy Fawkes' plan was to be a safe distance away from the Houses of Parliament when the gunpowder ignited. So, more like the IRA than tactics associated with Al-Qaeda.

    The fate of Guy is pretty horrifying, the criminal justice system of the day still clung to a lot of Medieval 'traditions', it wasn't exactly a fair and just society and the Parliamentarians weren't exactly innocent.

    Edited by Cappy at 13:31:06 06-11-2013
  • Grax 6 Nov 2013 13:29:25 2,296 posts
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    yeah, no suicide for Guy Fawkes, the plan was to light and scarper (though i guess he was always intended to be the scapegoat (not that he knew it)
  • TheSaint 6 Nov 2013 13:29:35 14,602 posts
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    I really don't think he was planning to kill himself. This is from the BBC history page:

    Back in London in October, with only weeks to go, the final details were planned. Fawkes was to light the fuse and escape to continental Europe. To coincide with the explosion, Digby would lead a rising in the Midlands and kidnap King James's daughter, Princess Elizabeth, ready to install her as a puppet queen. In Europe, Fawkes would be arguing the plotters' case to continental governments, to secure their passive acceptance, even support.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 6 Nov 2013 13:30:58 38,651 posts
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    I seem to remember he took a leap from the scaffolding as his mutilation/execution was about to begin, saving himself from that.

    But still, the torture would have been horrific.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
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