What would be your solution for bringing down the UK's debt? Page 3

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  • LeoliansBro 9 Oct 2013 09:23:05 43,156 posts
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    BonzoBanana wrote:
    Only spend what we have in the pot minus a percentage that pays back the national debt over the next 10-15 years.
    So you don't have a credit card then? And mortgages are to be frowned upon?


    Ensure education is geared towards economics providing a workforce that is educated as best as possible for commerce and industry.
    Sounds delightful - somewhere between Orwell and communism, just the kind of prescriptive world I want to live in.


    Ensure public sector workers are paid slightly below private sector wages and their wages are not set by strikes etc.
    Why? More to the point, who would work in the public sector? Wages are set at the level required to attract the right workforce, reducing them will not simply lead to a cheaper wage bill (else why not just forego paying them at all?).


    Do everything possible to make it easier to create jobs in this country and reduce imports.
    Job creation, yes. How though? And 'everything possible'? Like passing a law to oblige every UK registered company to double their workforce, and to hell with profitability? There needs to be a balance against corporate performance, and I rather suspect that job creation has been the primary focus of every post war Government (even Thatcher's eventually). As for reducing imports, again we can't do that in isolation - trade tarriffs and protectionism are Very Bad Things, and at the very least would hurt our own export markets as other countries act accordingly.


    Balance our world trade so we don't have a trading deficit.
    Why? Not sure this has any relevance. Also see above.


    Remove the influence of incompetent idealist and useless establishment figures from government and replace with sucessful businessman and scientists, engineers etc.
    Wonderful idea. One question though: who?


    Educate the young in school to destroy the 'entitlement' mindset and get people to understand you can't spend what you haven't earnt.
    Of course you can spend what you haven't earnt, you just need to be aware that you need to earn it eventually. Fiscal responsibility I'm all for, though obviously.


    Always be fair and moral so people who work hard at the bottom end of earnings do not receive less financial reward than those who do not contribute.
    How will this reduce the UK debt. But yes, I completely agree.


    Leave the empire mentality behind and start focusing on our own country rather than strutting about the world stage as if we mean something nowadays.
    Those Syrians should learn to take their dying in the hundreds of thousands like men. Seriously, our voting to ignore the potential genocide and turn away from offering to help is one of the most small minded and uncaring things I've ever seen our country do, we are diminished as a result and should be ashamed.


    Keep the 3 core values of free education, free health care at delivery and a fair justice system that makes this country so superior to most countries on this planet.
    And this helps reduce our debt levels, does it?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 9 Oct 2013 09:23:49 43,156 posts
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    Tonka wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    And please tell me how much police work solely targetting cannabis (as opposed to multiple illegal drugs of which cannabis is one) costs the exchequer?.
    It has to be all drugs.

    I seriously don't think legalising all drugs is a good idea.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • smoothpete 9 Oct 2013 09:25:41 31,320 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    I seriously don't think legalising all drugs is a good idea.
    It would be a lot of fun though, and that's the most important thing.
  • Armoured_Bear 9 Oct 2013 09:26:51 10,243 posts
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    Not really to remove debt but my uninformed twatbrain woul like to see..

    - More effort put into clamping down on tax avoidance than benefit fraud
    - Investment in public transport, infrastructure
    - Decrease the ridiculous focus on London above everywhere else
    - Massively improve apprenticeship schemes and improve real useful higher education
    - Re-nationalise the likes of Trains and stop this utter NHS stupidity
    - Try and re-establish more of a Manufacturing Industry
    - Do something about the uttter fuckwittery of the financial industry and 'the market' which provides very little benefit to the general public.
    - Build Council Houses
    - Educate people on personal debt and stop the obsession with having everything now whether you can afford it or not and the fuckwitted mentality of thinking that you're "successful' if you ownyourhousehaveanicecarinthegarageandgo2foreignholidaysayear

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  • nickthegun 9 Oct 2013 09:27:26 58,782 posts
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    I would be down for giving it a go. I actually dreamt of weed the other day. Big fat buds as big as corn on the cobs as far as the eye could see. It was a delight.... then I woke up and I was sad.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • smoothpete 9 Oct 2013 09:28:41 31,320 posts
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    I disagree with tax avoidance too, but only up to the point when my plumber says something like "by cheque it's 600, or for cash it's 550" then I am very much in favour of tax avoidance.
  • nickthegun 9 Oct 2013 09:28:57 58,782 posts
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    Also... there has been and will be some interesting data to come out of the shut down of The Silk Road.

    Thanks to the ebay style rating system, the drugs people were getting there were of a far higher quality than anything you would get off the street with the fringe benefit of not having to mix with vermin to get them.

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    He totally called it

  • nickthegun 9 Oct 2013 09:29:33 58,782 posts
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    smoothpete wrote:
    I disagree with tax avoidance too, but only up to the point when my plumber says something like "by cheque it's 600, or for cash it's 550" then I am very much in favour of tax avoidance.
    The bloke who did our gutters gave us a cash price. All hail the cash price.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • Chopsen 9 Oct 2013 09:31:06 15,702 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Ensure education is geared towards economics providing a workforce that is educated as best as possible for commerce and industry.
    Sounds delightful - somewhere between Orwell and communism, just the kind of prescriptive world I want to live in.
    I do generally agree with this. Look at the problem now we've got because we've had decades of churning out graduates that nobody needs, diluting the job market and clobbering people with debt and no hope of a (paying) job. And what about the recent OECD study that showed we've got appalling standards of literacy and numeracy despite apparently rising grades year on year in school exams.

    Part of the problem though is that it's not just about education. There needs to be economic and industry development to create a pull effect, as well as the push effect of educating people.
  • LeoliansBro 9 Oct 2013 09:31:30 43,156 posts
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    smoothpete wrote:
    I disagree with tax avoidance too, but only up to the point when my plumber says something like "by cheque it's 600, or for cash it's 550" then I am very much in favour of tax avoidance.
    That'll be tax evasion :)

    That one is illegal. Like how my local Alfa garage cannot accept payment in any form other than cash.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • smoothpete 9 Oct 2013 09:31:35 31,320 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    smoothpete wrote:
    I disagree with tax avoidance too, but only up to the point when my plumber says something like "by cheque it's 600, or for cash it's 550" then I am very much in favour of tax avoidance.
    The bloke who did our gutters gave us a cash price. All hail the cash price.
    We're worse than the Greeks!
  • nickthegun 9 Oct 2013 09:33:03 58,782 posts
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    I dont know what its like now, probably worse, but when I was doing my GCSEs the thickest people were pretty much encouraged not to do the exams to keep the schools grade average up.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • LeoliansBro 9 Oct 2013 09:35:04 43,156 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    Look at the problem now we've got because we've had decades of churning out graduates that nobody needs, diluting the job market and clobbering people with debt and no hope of a (paying) job. And what about the recent OECD study that showed we've got appalling standards of literacy and numeracy despite apparently rising grades year on year in school exams.

    Part of the problem though is that it's not just about education. There needs to be economic and industry development to create a pull effect, as well as the push effect of educating people.
    This is an unfortunate consequence of the freedom to pursue your own path, and in a sense it is balanced by the jobs market. we do have a lot of 'useless' degrees, it is true.

    But that doesn't mean we should force people to learn what our industries want them to learn just to improve profitability. If they don't want to do that I will absolutely not resort to coercion. Incentives, yes, but it should never be mandatory.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Chopsen 9 Oct 2013 09:41:34 15,702 posts
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    Oh aye. I'm doing a part time degree for the sheer hell of it, so I'm in no position to argue for a purely economically motivated education system. Variously though the idea pushing people in to education was with the promise of better employment prospects, with the government saying we "needed" more graduates. It wasn't sold on the basis of personal improvement, which I would agree with.

    Having said that, as this is a thread about reducing national debt, having an entire generation paying interest on a loan they've got from the state for the rest of their life might be a good thing!
  • doctor_nick 9 Oct 2013 09:42:12 172 posts
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    People are making this sound awfully complicated. Want to raise some cash? Add a micro-transaction to every forum post. Job done.
  • Armoured_Bear 9 Oct 2013 09:42:50 10,243 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Tonka wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    And please tell me how much police work solely targetting cannabis (as opposed to multiple illegal drugs of which cannabis is one) costs the exchequer?.
    It has to be all drugs.

    I seriously don't think legalising all drugs is a good idea.
    That was cool.

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  • Chopsen 9 Oct 2013 09:46:29 15,702 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    - Re-nationalise the likes of Trains and stop this utter NHS stupidity
    While there's a rational argument that renationalising trains may be good for public transport, it would be bad for the decifit as the private sector stakeholders are unlikely to just hand it over to the state for free.

    Re NHS it depends what you mean by "stupidity."
  • Jeepers 9 Oct 2013 09:49:44 13,173 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    - Re-nationalise the likes of Trains and stop this utter NHS stupidity
    While there's a rational argument that renationalising trains may be good for public transport, it would be bad for the decifit as the private sector stakeholders are unlikely to just hand it over to the state for free.

    Re NHS it depends what you mean by "stupidity."
    Doctors' Receptionists. And by "stupidity" I mean "How fucking rude are they?"

    Airline nuts etc.
  • tincanrocket 9 Oct 2013 09:50:51 2,897 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Tonka wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    And please tell me how much police work solely targetting cannabis (as opposed to multiple illegal drugs of which cannabis is one) costs the exchequer?.
    It has to be all drugs.

    I seriously don't think legalising all drugs is a good idea.
    Why not? Their being illegal doesn't nullify their existence, it just puts all trade and control into the hands of the black market. Aside from any economic or health-related arguments, at a basic level should the government and legal system of a country in the 21st century be making moral judgements on how people choose to spend their free time or what they choose to do with their bodies. Prohibition of this sort is as dated as (thankfully now defunct) laws against homosexuality. IMO.
  • Jeepers 9 Oct 2013 09:51:03 13,173 posts
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    Actually, you might know the answer to this: Do GPs deliberately hire miserable, rude unhelpful cunts to be their receptionists to deter patients from visiting?

    Clever ruse if so.
  • LeoliansBro 9 Oct 2013 09:57:25 43,156 posts
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    tincanrocket wrote:

    Why not? Their being illegal doesn't nullify their existence, it just puts all trade and control into the hands of the black market. Aside from any economic or health-related arguments, at a basic level should the government and legal system of a country in the 21st century be making moral judgements on how people choose to spend their free time or what they choose to do with their bodies. Prohibition of this sort is as dated as (thankfully now defunct) laws against homosexuality. IMO.
    This is a valid point, but it misunderstands how the legal system is designed. Going to get a bit psychology wanky here, but: laws are not 'things you must never do', they are 'things the majority of society considers bad and had attached a penalty to, but which you are free to pursue if you wish to run the risk of incurring the penalty'. The balance between adherence to the law and freedom to choose is something everybody works out for themselves. That's why different crimes carry different punishments, depending on how serious society views them as.

    Plus it's far too large a upheaval to society to risk, in the same way as we cannot make alcohol and cigarettes illegal. it's a judgement call, and while I think we are too conservative and restrictive at the moment, making all drugs legal is too far in the other direction.

    Maybe I'll look like a little-England set-in-my-ways dinosaur in 100 years. Could well be.

    Edited by LeoliansBro at 09:58:20 09-10-2013

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Fab4 9 Oct 2013 10:00:11 5,975 posts
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    I would implement a Logan's Run style population control. Its the grey-haired old biddies who cost the most to look after.
  • Chopsen 9 Oct 2013 10:00:24 15,702 posts
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    I'm surprised they're not homicidal and managed to somehow stop at just rude. I'd have gone stabby-stabby years ago if I had to put up with the shit they have to put up with every day.
  • Tonka 9 Oct 2013 10:01:44 20,007 posts
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    smoothpete wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    I seriously don't think legalising all drugs is a good idea.
    It would be a lot of fun though, and that's the most important thing.
    You're both wrong.

    @LeoliansBro, why don't you think it's a good idea? Did you watch the video?
    I'm personally very conflicted about it. It feels morally wrong. I do think drugs are a bad thing. Buurt, that ex cop makes sense and he has the experience and numbers to back it up where as I'm "But dugs destroy families"

    Another discussion though but one I enjoy just because I'm so torn on the subject.

    And then I saw that you already answered.

    Move on

    Edited by Tonka at 10:03:19 09-10-2013

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • the_dudefather 9 Oct 2013 10:06:45 9,178 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Thanks to the ebay style rating system, the drugs people were getting there were of a far higher quality
    ACE DRUGS ARRIVED FAST SELLER RECCOMENDED AAA+++++++!!

    (ง ͠ ͟ʖ ͡)

  • mcmonkeyplc 9 Oct 2013 10:11:22 39,384 posts
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    I would ban forums.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Armoured_Bear 9 Oct 2013 10:13:05 10,243 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    - Re-nationalise the likes of Trains and stop this utter NHS stupidity
    While there's a rational argument that renationalising trains may be good for public transport, it would be bad for the decifit as the private sector stakeholders are unlikely to just hand it over to the state for free.

    Re NHS it depends what you mean by "stupidity."
    I'd prioritise the actual service and long term benefits over the deficit tbh.
    As for NHS, the stupidity 'm referring to is the potential privatisation, look at how bad all the outsourcing has been..

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  • Chopsen 9 Oct 2013 10:14:54 15,702 posts
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    The way I view drugs is that harm is a function of use. The more drug use there is, the more harm to individuals you see. Use if a function of availability, and availability is a function of legality.

    (Legalise drugs, use will go up. I don't quite buy that cops argument that "everybody who wants it can get it" as there is a degree of opportunity. I'm absolutely not going to get heroin as things are at the moment, and I have no idea how to get some. If it was in Sainsbury's next to the fags... that's a different proposition.)

    However, there is another form of harm resulting from the fact that people are going to pursue the act of getting themselves off their tits, regardless of the law. By aggressively outlawing this, it makes this profitable for unregulated, uncontrolled market that resort to exploitation and criminality to function.

    I don't believe anybody who says they know for certainty they have a magic bullet to solve the drug issue.
  • DevilsKebab 9 Oct 2013 10:27:03 645 posts
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    Stop all gov. bodies outsourcing any IT to external companies.
    It shocks me when I see how much money has been wasted on IT white elephants.
    Create an IT support and development department to work on such things.
    Everyone knows when a company pitches for govournment work, the hike the price massively as they know then can get away with it.
  • Tonka 9 Oct 2013 10:32:26 20,007 posts
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    DevilsKebab wrote:
    Stop all gov. bodies outsourcing any IT to external companies.
    And in the same vein. Ban all MS products.

    Fuck me the money that is being wasted on trying to patch over Sharepoint. Or all the products that are being held back because of it.

    IE7 how I hate you.

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

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