Nintendo - sucking beyond redemption? Page 2

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  • spamdangled 2 Oct 2013 01:57:11 27,421 posts
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    @joeymoto108

    I'm fairly certain I said that :)

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  • joeymoto108 2 Oct 2013 02:24:32 654 posts
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    Maybe you did but I'm tired/tipsy and therefore currently have the reading comprehension skills of a 12 year old ;)

    'Look at you, hacker: a pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?'

  • spamdangled 2 Oct 2013 02:33:08 27,421 posts
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    @joeymoto108

    darkmorgado wrote:
    Lync wrote:
    Moral of the story then, don't expect good discussion, or even reasoned debate, or even reason, from a comments thread.
    By jove, I think he's got it!

    It's not a universal rule, but one that tends to hold true more often than not, by and large. And not just on this site, across most sites in general.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • FortysixterUK 2 Oct 2013 02:51:30 391 posts
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    Raiko101 wrote:
    As i've said already today, it's all about gaming tastes. Not a single one of the games Richardiox listed appeals to me at all. Well... With the exception of Rain. I've found that modern commercial gaming is moving away fromwhat appeals to me. Dark Souls, Oblivion, Fallout, Bioshock, Half Life, Uncharted, etc.. They either did nothing for me, or just don't interest me.
    I was happy to sit on the sidelines of this forum until I read this, simply stunning that some of the best games if this generation are so easily dismissed . Areyou sure you like video games at all? As these are all stunners.
  • spamdangled 2 Oct 2013 02:59:21 27,421 posts
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    I wouldn't say Rain is particularly, but then I admit I only have the Expo demo to go by. But my experience chimes with the EG review from earlier which was hardly glowing.

    I'll admit I think Uncharted is very overrated as well. As is Oblivion, which has come in for a lot of criticism over the years due to its level scaling, procedurally generated world with massive asset reuse and poor pacing and repetitive quest design - particularly in those hideous Oblivion Gates.

    I'll give you Fallout (1 and 2 anyway), Bioshock (up to and including the twist) and Half Life (except Xen, which is almost universally despised including by Valve).

    But we're getting dangerously close to a list thread.

    Perhaps the OP would like a thread merge with the general WiiU thread?

    Edited by darkmorgado at 03:02:06 02-10-2013

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • BinaryBob101 2 Oct 2013 04:18:00 24,038 posts
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    EG seems to be turning into a DM blog. It's getting very weird.

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  • redcrayon 2 Oct 2013 07:06:01 4,571 posts
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    richardiox wrote:
    Q3/Q4

    PS3 has Beyond, GT6, Rain, GTA5 and TLOU.
    XB1 has Forza 5, Dead Rising, Killer Instinct and Peggle 2
    PS4 has KZ4, Drive Club, Resogun and Knack
    (360 exists purely as a multi platform machine now)

    WiiU can't compete with next gen or PS3 for software nor can it compete with 360 for price, online or back catalogue. It's also massively lacking in the online features the new consoles are bringing to the table (streaming etc). It has 32gb storage compared to 500 on next gen. It needs three different controllers to get the most out of it. And now most third party publishers have dropped it.

    To be honest I really can't see how anyone could rationally argue it's got the best line up this winter, especially without GTA, FIFA, BF4 and Mario as its only stand out AAA exclusive.

    I take your point on the great lineups elsewhere but wasn't TLOU back in May/June?

    Shooting and driving games don't do much for me, but in terms of broad appeal, even as somebody who likes Mario and Zelda the other machines do look like more interesting lineups than Mario, Sonic, Mario&Sonic and Wind Waker HD.

    Edited by redcrayon at 08:43:00 02-10-2013
  • redcrayon 2 Oct 2013 07:11:07 4,571 posts
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    Raiko101 wrote:
    As i've said already today, it's all about gaming tastes. Not a single one of the games Richardiox listed appeals to me at all. Well... With the exception of Rain. I've found that modern commercial gaming is moving away fromwhat appeals to me. Dark Souls, Oblivion, Fallout, Bioshock, Half Life, Uncharted, etc.. They either did nothing for me, or just don't interest me.
    I'm much the same in terms of this years q3/4 console lineups, none of them really appeal to me, and that includes the new machines and the WiiU. I get just as bored by HD shooters and racers as I do by Wii sports and party games, it's a shame there isn't a big RPG or strategy game out on any of them this winter. I might give Beyond a go.

    I can't agree with you on the others though- Dark Souls and Fallout NV are two of my favourites of the generation. And wasn't Half-Life 2 ten years ago now? Even with the episodes I'm not sure it counts as 'modern' in the gaming sense of the word you are using! :-)

    Edited by redcrayon at 07:14:28 02-10-2013
  • Load_2.0 2 Oct 2013 07:12:42 19,506 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    As for downvotes, who cares? It's like crying because the school dunce gave you a bad rating in a competition for "most stupid comment of the year". Personally I take them as a badge of honour. 90% of the time, the comments with the most downvotes are the most sensible and balanced
    No.
  • Load_2.0 2 Oct 2013 07:17:24 19,506 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    you're better off ignoring the comments, by and large. There's only a small percentage of ones worth reading. I mainly go there out of morbid curiosity :)
    Lol, yeah says the guy with almost 10,000 comments.
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Oct 2013 07:40:26 11,652 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Perhaps the OP would like a thread merge with the general WiiU thread?
    How many times are you going to suggest this?
    The thread is fine, just leave it FFS.

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  • Deleted user 2 October 2013 07:45:35
    BinaryBob101 wrote:
    EG seems to be turning into a DM blog. It's getting very weird.
    This. In every fucking thread.
  • dominalien 2 Oct 2013 07:51:38 7,027 posts
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    Feel free to be more prolific than he is. :-)

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  • jellyBelly 2 Oct 2013 07:54:31 434 posts
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    Eurogamer should publish a histogram of post counts. I bet it's fat tailed

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  • Punctum 2 Oct 2013 08:02:59 1,022 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Lync wrote:
    Moral of the story then, don't expect good discussion, or even reasoned debate, or even reason, from a comments thread.
    You'll end up attempting to build a warp drive when all you wanted to do was work out why Windows wasn't booting as fast as it used to.
    glol
  • JinTypeNoir 2 Oct 2013 08:33:16 4,392 posts
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    I'm going to ignore everything you've said about console lineups, because it's kind of like reaching into the toilet and playing chess with your turds.

    Instead I'm going to respond to the wider question of, "Why does Nintendo get so much flack?" The answer is that they don't, not really. If you were to survey the wider world, as in all the toddlers, kids and teenagers and young adults, old adults, decrepit, one-foot-in-the-grave adults Nintendo's probably got a great image, overall. It really doesn't matter if they're stuck in some bizarre media spin cycle where reality is of no importance. You see a different sort of it for Sony, where just about everything from the wider media is, "Why aren't you kicking as much ass as you did in the 80s and 90s? When are you going to get your shit in gear?" and for Microsoft I get an impression of "Countdown to death in the absence of Bill Gates" in a similar fashion to Apple with Jobs.

    I'm just going off what I read about in articles. And I see a lot of writers kind of go out of their way to create a story that they can use to milk and run with, and quite a few readers just nod their heads as if they are correct, when if you stopped to think about some of these things they posit, they have a retardation level of pure down syndrome.

    I mean right below me I can read an article that says, "Is Zelda Finally Evolving?" at US Gamer. Really, US Gamer, REALLY? I know it's popular: the idea that Zelda is in a rut, but in some parts of the world incest is popular, so shit for that, eh?

    The real story ought to be an article titled correctly about whether Nintendo ought to be or is targeting who is disgruntled with recent Zeldas, or it is just Nintendo being Nintendo. Because there is no doubt Zelda has been evolving for a long time. It's gone from being almost advante garde and way ahead of its time in open-world building in Majora's Mask to completely changing its art style into a stunning cartoon makeover and ditching the usual progression flow in Wind Waker to bizarre detours in touch-based gaming and of all things, a train-based title, to embracing complete motion control for the entire basis of the game. It has evolved significantly. To debate otherwise is to be critically dishonest, which is what the press loves doing.

    The issue is that there is a school of thought that thinks that Zelda should have evolved differently, into different areas, along different lines. They want something more like Assassin's Creed, or Ico, or Journey, or Tomb Raider, or Darksiders, or Dark Souls, or any number of other things.

    If these vomit-spewers took a moment to be critically soul-searching and write something that was well-thought-out for a change, this would be blazingly obvious. However, a headline like "Has Zelda evolved?" will attract the so-shal networks (!) and all the goodies that implies while people endlessly go on fanboy rants about whether it has evolved or not, which is a stupid, moot, idiotic point that is easily understood if you take a critical step back and survey it coldly.

    So what to do about this? Just do what you do when you read the umpteenth "Is Vita dead this time, is it dead now, how about now, 20 minutes from now, no not yet?" article or "Does a microsecond less versatility in the boomshakalaka chips at the graphics core of the hurmdergerderger in the Xbone make it DOOMED?" news report. Ignore the fuckers until they fuck their sisters and brothers into an inbred katamari damacy of doom.
  • jellyBelly 2 Oct 2013 08:39:25 434 posts
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    Jin although i agree with a lot of what you said, the real problem for Nintendo is the loss - or near loss - of confidence by investors about the current market share and growth prospects of the company. Although the company has been in a tight spot before they are now not just competing with Sega, but in a way with Sony, MS, Apple, Google, Samsung and co. for our entertainment dollars/time/attention that have further been limited due to macroeconomic enviroment.

    Can the company compete with all of the above, or if not can they carve a profitable niche, albeit small, that they can call their own and succesfully defend in this environment? I believe this is the real cause of concern for the board and its investors

    PSN:lumulata, NN Dollodon

  • Armoured_Bear 2 Oct 2013 08:40:58 11,652 posts
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    JinTypeNoir never disappoints.

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  • quadfather 2 Oct 2013 08:48:27 13,144 posts
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    Jins post has just set me up for the day. Muchas gracias

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Blerk Moderator 2 Oct 2013 08:54:47 48,225 posts
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    As an outsider looking in, it seems to me that Nintendo has become so dependent upon its own games carrying its systems that it's become afraid to branch out above and beyond what they are 100% certain will sell.

    This comes not just at the expense of new IP development but also at the expense of less-well-loved Nintendo franchises, many of which seem to have been unceremoniously shelved.

    While they'll quite often try to innovate within the few franchises they do throw their weight behind, for anyone other than the Nintendo fan much of that effort is often wasted as whatever they do is seen as 'just another Mario game'.

    With their own titles taking longer and longer to arrive and their apparent unwillingness to take any risks or branch out further or properly court third party or indie developers I can't help but wonder if they've backed themselves into a corner. Rather than the market shunning them it's almost as if by being ultra-conservative they're actually slowly killing themselves.
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Oct 2013 09:09:28 11,652 posts
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    Blerk wrote:
    As an outsider looking in, it seems to me that Nintendo has become so dependent upon its own games carrying its systems that it's become afraid to branch out above and beyond what they are 100% certain will sell.

    This comes not just at the expense of new IP development but also at the expense of less-well-loved Nintendo franchises, many of which seem to have been unceremoniously shelved.

    While they'll quite often try to innovate within the few franchises they do throw their weight behind, for anyone other than the Nintendo fan much of that effort is often wasted as whatever they do is seen as 'just another Mario game'.

    With their own titles taking longer and longer to arrive and their apparent unwillingness to take any risks or branch out further or properly court third party or indie developers I can't help but wonder if they've backed themselves into a corner. Rather than the market shunning them it's almost as if by being ultra-conservative they're actually slowly killing themselves.
    I think there's a lot of truth to this, such a shame.

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  • nickthegun 2 Oct 2013 09:10:01 60,970 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Perhaps the OP would like a thread merge with the general WiiU thread?
    How many times are you going to suggest this?
    The thread is fine, just leave it FFS.
    Its funny to think how different your opinion would be if that one little question mark was missing at the end of the thread title.

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  • redcrayon 2 Oct 2013 09:11:06 4,571 posts
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    @Blerk
    They do make new IP, Xenoblade for example, but they do just seem to be averse to starting anything else off as a big-budget, high profile thing until they've found something that works. While they've created various party games, Wii fit etc, in terms of stuff that's more like their classic games, it's not like either Dillons Rolling Western or Steel Diver set the world on fire.

    As you say, they are in trouble and now almost entirely reliant on their own IP. However, when that includes Mario, Mario Kart, Pokemon etc etc, it's not surprising they lean on the games that provide the big numbers at the expense of F-Zero and Metroid. Still, Punch-Out and Kid Icarus were resurrected out of the blue, so who knows. I think with F-Zero the territory of HD sci-fi racer has been so thoroughly explored by wipeout etc that maybe they just aren't sure if the investment would pay off to compete, especially when MK sells CoD numbers for piss-all effort.

    I think they've realised that they need more AAA action games, but also that they aren't necessarily the best people to make loads of them, hence deals with Platinum etc. I suspect Retro have only been doing Donkey Kong as it's popular and they could turn it around fast, which were understandable priorities last year. Funny that they are doubling down on platformers with Sonic, Yoshi etc, as if they are saying 'this is our territory!'.

    Edited by redcrayon at 09:20:41 02-10-2013
  • beastmaster 2 Oct 2013 09:13:26 11,789 posts
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    "Why does Nintendo get so much flack?"

    They don't. They just get ignored by the very markets it's trying to capture with the Wii U.


    Here's how I see it, with broad sweeping generalisations and some factual in-corrections and the use of hardcore and casual :-)

    1. Wii becomes a spectacular success, to everyone's surprise.
    2. Uncles, grannies, sister and brothers all partake because it is revolutionary at the time.
    3. They get bored very quickly and either get rid or put in the cupboard along with the curtains. Some quicker that others.
    4. Shitware comes out in droves and gets purchased by people who don't know any better.
    5. They learn quick (factual in-correction)
    6. The vast mahjority of the people who bough it do not buy games and realise it was a fad.

    Nintendo needs to get gamers who buy games back to the Wii and come up with the Wii U. On the announcement, everyone realises that it's...it's...it's...umm...not sure really. Is it a controller? Is it a console? Is it both?

    I think the casual gamer either doesn't know there's a new console by Nintendo out there. If there's a big marketing push, then they will know but will not care.

    All of the new Wii Sports type games? Do they really expect people who abandoned the Wii years ago to suddenly go "Oh my god! I must get a new console to play the same kind of game I stopped playing years ago!!"? No, this will not happen.

    The hardcore gamer who may well be a Nintendo fan who hasn't got one yet (and wants one) are probably the ones who are quite vocal. Myself included. I have other consoles though.

    Why would I want to play the new Batman game on a Wii U if it'll be better supported, with online features and look and sound better on another format? Answer, I don't.

    There are lots of other games coming out on 360 and PS3 which are multi-platform and not make it to the Wii U. Again, it's being dropped by most third-party developers as their titles don't sell.

    The first party games do look mighty impressive but there's simply not enough of them yet. I know there's only so many games those hard working bods at Nintendo can do.

    However, first party titles are the only reason to get one. Personally, there's just not enough for me to warrant a purchase.

    There's also the price. Still too expensive for what it is. A bundle with a game for sub 200... :-)

    But I do think that would fly off the shelves. I'd buy one without hesitation.

    Oh and as for this push by Nintendo and Tesco(?) to try and get the message out there that there is a new console by Nintendo? There are two more new kids on the block which ARE new consoles and will be getting all the attention.

    After Xmas, I think it'll drop to sub 200 with a bundle. Before Easter it'll be 150.

    The Resident Evil films. I'm one of the reasons they keep making them.

  • Armoured_Bear 2 Oct 2013 09:14:35 11,652 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Perhaps the OP would like a thread merge with the general WiiU thread?
    How many times are you going to suggest this?
    The thread is fine, just leave it FFS.
    Its funny to think how different your opinion would be if that one little question mark was missing at the end of the thread title.
    It's funny to see how pathetic you are with your endless attempts to pick petty internet fights. Grow the fuck up.

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  • nickthegun 2 Oct 2013 09:16:50 60,970 posts
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    Its also funny to see that you never miss an opportunity to get all sweary and manly.

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    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • redcrayon 2 Oct 2013 09:19:24 4,571 posts
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    This is why we can't have nice threads.
  • neilka 2 Oct 2013 09:19:26 16,445 posts
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    Didn't Nick get put back on THE LIST yesterday?

    BAAANG!!!!! EXPLOTION!!!!!

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