Mentalgate Page 6

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  • Deckard1 22 Oct 2013 15:35:56 28,704 posts
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    My head looked like an engorged bell-end for much of my teens.
  • Deckard1 22 Oct 2013 15:36:13 28,704 posts
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    Oh hai new page
  • Alastair 22 Oct 2013 15:41:07 16,045 posts
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    Does it now look like a flaccid one?
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 22 Oct 2013 15:41:51 38,664 posts
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    This one is presumably from the TNG/Power Rangers cross over episode

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  • Load_2.0 22 Oct 2013 15:55:22 19,442 posts
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    Michael Myers is not a mental patient, he is a supernatural being.

    No-one ever thinks of their feelings.
  • Deckard1 22 Oct 2013 15:56:38 28,704 posts
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    WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF MARSHMALLOW MAN
  • Megapocalypse 22 Oct 2013 16:00:44 5,468 posts
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    Wasn't it more that Michael Myers became supernatural as the films progressed. He stated off as just a hard as fuck nutter.

    If anything it sends a positive message that the mentally ill can look after themselves.

    Edited by Megapocalypse at 16:02:17 22-10-2013
  • glaeken 22 Oct 2013 16:03:35 11,221 posts
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    @MrTomFTW Even Wesley's jump suit is a particularly bright grey.
  • nickthegun 22 Oct 2013 16:09:43 60,435 posts
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    Megapocalypse wrote:
    Wasn't it more that Michael Myers became supernatural as the films progressed. He stated off as just a hard as fuck nutter.
    With Captain Kirks face, which was the thing that always freaked me out more than anything else.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Deleted user 22 October 2013 16:13:13
    Megapocalypse wrote:
    Wasn't it more that Michael Myers became supernatural as the films progressed. He stated off as just a hard as fuck nutter.

    If anything it sends a positive message that the mentally ill can look after themselves.
    Dunno, knives.. Girls use knives. If he wants to play the hard man fair enough, I know I'm not hard, but then he's revelling in his hard man rep.
  • Dangerous_Dan 22 Oct 2013 16:25:58 2,378 posts
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    Look, horror films put "mental health patient" in a similar category to vampires and zombies. That is not ok, and is clearly symptomatic of a deeper societal issue that we don't really understand and yes, fear people with mental health problems.
    Why are you not discriminating among the various health problems? Someone who is psychotic is very different from someone who is depressed or who is neurotic.

    I'd never have thought of someone who is depressed or neurotic as someone who is a psychotic killer. But that kind of crude and thoughtless kind of labeling does that. Creating a problem where non existed.

    Those who are psychotic killers, well, I think it's alright to portray them as psychotic killers.
  • Deleted user 22 October 2013 16:41:18
    Wasn't Derrick Bird said to be depressed when he went on his rampage. I don't think the individual diagnoses are that clearly defined.

    How someone reacts to stress.
  • Deleted user 22 October 2013 16:43:17
    I thought of an interesting corollary whilst in the shower. I'll let that image hang for a moment.

    Anyway. Prisoners. Would there be a similar outrage if the halloween thing at Thorpe Park was a mockup prison where people had to run the gauntlet against prisoners escaping and running riot? Is an Escaped Convict outfit as stigmatising as an escaped mental patient? Do shows and films like Prison Break, Shawshank or American History X perpetuate misunderstanding and fear of convicts and the prison system? One of the many reasons for the cycle of recidivism by released prisoners is their rejection by society. But the same internet mums who get uppity about "oh no a mental patient costume" are probably* the same ones who go "get them away from me lest they abduct and murder my children" when hearing news of a jailbreak.




    * probably probably. Maybe. definitely
  • Dangerous_Dan 22 Oct 2013 17:23:13 2,378 posts
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    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    Wasn't Derrick Bird said to be depressed when he went on his rampage. I don't think the individual diagnoses are that clearly defined.

    How someone reacts to stress.
    To some degree, everybody has mental health issues. It's the degree that matters. A society decides what kind of behaviour is tolerable and what kind isn't. If a society would allow every kind of behaviour then it would destroy itself.

    Every society decides where to draw the line. What's okay and what isn't. There are pros and cons for keeping it stricter or more loose. Psychotic killer is not okay, not in my book at least.

    When you draw a line in theory then it will in reality always be blurry. There isn't always a perfect distinction possible between what is on the 'lock away' side and what is on the 'hello dear neighbour side'.

    People who are close to that line on the 'hello dear neighbour' side will sometimes get treated unjustly.

    To call for more tolerance on behalf of 'psychos', the real ones, won't solve the problem - It's just drawing the line somewhere new.
    That's eventually very problematic for the cohesion of society itself.
  • Deleted user 22 October 2013 17:28:39
    Schizophrenics or people that suffer psychotic episodes are very rarely violent. Mostly they withdraw from society.
  • kalel 22 Oct 2013 18:11:05 88,371 posts
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    As it happens my experience with mental illness is from a loved one suffering from quite a serious psychosis. It was my experience of what she suffered and her institutionalised recovery that made me really understand just how very wrong the broad societal view on this kind of thing is.
  • Deleted user 22 October 2013 18:15:19
    Yeah I had a nervous breakdown and was diagnosed schizophrenic ten years ago. I'm a massive pussy irl.
  • kalel 22 Oct 2013 18:16:01 88,371 posts
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    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    Psychotic killer is not okay, not in my book at least.
    Take for example a women who is suffering from post-natal psychosis (relatively common form), who thinks her new born child can fly so throws him down the stairs. and kills it

    That is a deeply deeply tragic scenario for all involved. Her illness has caused a truly awful thing to happen, and while she should of coursed be institutionalised, she should not be branded a "psycho killer".

    This is the point. Yes, mentally ill people can be "killers", but painting them as monsters is wrong.
  • Deckard1 22 Oct 2013 18:24:46 28,704 posts
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    But that's not what films like silence of lambs are though is it. They're about serial killers.
  • kalel 22 Oct 2013 18:28:20 88,371 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    But that's not what films like silence of lambs are though is it. They're about serial killers.
    Again, I think Silence of the Lambs isn't the best example as it kinds of surfs the line between serious drama and horror film.

    But it's still really the same point. Films that paint these people as "monsters" are adding to the problem that society has with really understanding why these things happen, and adds to the wider stigma attached to mental illness.
  • Deckard1 22 Oct 2013 18:38:02 28,704 posts
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    I don't really agree with that. Serial killers are serial killers. I don't think anyone really relates them to your average mental patient. Yes there's obviously a lot of stigma attached to mental health problems but films about psycho killers has very little to do with it. Imo. Agree to disagree. Now let's fuck.
  • Load_2.0 22 Oct 2013 18:52:16 19,442 posts
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    Post deleted
  • Load_2.0 22 Oct 2013 18:52:19 19,442 posts
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    kalel wrote:

    Take for example a women who is suffering from post-natal psychosis (relatively common form), who thinks her new born child can fly so throws him down the stairs. and kills it.
    Be a pretty short film.

    Just feels like a real stretch to link movie
    creature to someone with mental health issues.
  • kalel 22 Oct 2013 19:15:06 88,371 posts
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    Load_2.0 wrote:
    kalel wrote:

    Take for example a women who is suffering from post-natal psychosis (relatively common form), who thinks her new born child can fly so throws him down the stairs. and kills it.
    Be a pretty short film.

    Just feels like a real stretch to link movie
    creature to someone with mental health issues.
    I don't quite understand what you think I'm saying, but the likes of Norman Bates and Michael Myers are effectively "monsters" in their respective movies.

    But really they're playing the role of someone who isn't unlike the woman I've described in my post above. The difference between the Hollywood portrayal and the reality is clear. Hollywood paints them as monsters to be feared (and dressed up as on Halloween), and that adds to the wider ignorance and misunderstanding of mental illness.
  • kalel 22 Oct 2013 19:16:09 88,371 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    Yes there's obviously a lot of stigma attached to mental health problems but films about psycho killers has very little to do with it. Imo.
    Pretty amazing that you actually used the phrase "psycho killer" there. It really just proves my point.
  • Deleted user 22 October 2013 19:21:50
    In absolute fairness, Norman Bates and Hannibal Lecter et al are based on real people, so it isn't wholly just Hollywood. And in the example of Bates, the film is surprisingly sympathetic to him rather than making him a generic monster (Hitchcock wanted the audience to like him, even at the end). Same with Lecter, although to a much lesser extent--we're supposed to admire, even envy him, at times. The "monster" thing happened beyond the scope of the original portrayal.

    Michael Myers less so, but the recent remake vaguely attempted to give him a sympathetic backstory. So did the Texas Chainsaw Massacre reboot.

    It doesn't really change your point at all, but it's still worth highlighting.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 22 Oct 2013 19:24:24 38,664 posts
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    What about Jason Vorhees? I always felt kinda sorry for him.

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  • Khanivor 22 Oct 2013 19:29:16 40,938 posts
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    I am going to start a petition against Forest Gunp and its portrayal of wounded veterans all being angry drunks. Lt Dan besmirched all who have served and been wounded and this sort of thing must stop.
  • Deleted user 22 October 2013 19:31:40
    I found the Hannibal film with Julianne Moore pretty funny

    How can we make a serial murderer a
    protagonist that people will root for?

    Answer: pitch him against a child molester
  • Dangerous_Dan 22 Oct 2013 20:18:19 2,378 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    Psychotic killer is not okay, not in my book at least.
    Take for example a women who is suffering from post-natal psychosis (relatively common form), who thinks her new born child can fly so throws him down the stairs. and kills it

    That is a deeply deeply tragic scenario for all involved. Her illness has caused a truly awful thing to happen, and while she should of coursed be institutionalised, she should not be branded a "psycho killer".

    This is the point. Yes, mentally ill people can be "killers", but painting them as monsters is wrong.
    For me, a monster is someone who I can't empathize with. (that's not the same as compassion btw.) If she feels strong remorse and wouldn't want to have another child, because that terrible, tragic thing could happen again and she couldn't live with herself then I'd definitely not call her a monster.

    The psycho killer monsters of movies and books and myths are fascinating because they go to the limits of our empathy and beyond - for most people.

    About that woman you described - On the other hand, I think that part of remorse comes from pressures of reality. If everybody was like 'It's not so terrible, you are quite alright' then that wouldn't be an appropriate response from her environment either. No easy answers, no definite answers.
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