Political Correctness/Walking on Eggshells Page 2

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  • mal 8 Sep 2013 01:50:33 22,580 posts
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    EuroStalker wrote:
    If I am prejudiced against all races, religion and sexuality, does that make me a racist?
    The clue's in the word - prejudice. To prejudge anything, that is to judge it before you have enough evidence to make such a judgement, is a logical fallacy.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Mola_Ram 8 Sep 2013 02:12:55 7,410 posts
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    To me the term "political correctness" has lost a lot of meaning, owing to people using it to shut down further argument. Or as a cover for actual racism, as if putting "I don't want to be POLITICALLY INCORRECT, but..." before something racist actually cancels it out.
  • the_dudefather 8 Sep 2013 02:53:46 9,288 posts
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    You can't even have naked flames in the forecourt anymore!

    (ง ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)

  • Fake_Blood 8 Sep 2013 03:13:30 4,215 posts
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    It's simple, you're not allowed to dislike people you haven't met yet.
    Thanks a lot, Hitler.
  • PazJohnMitch 8 Sep 2013 05:44:12 8,078 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    It's simple, you're not allowed to dislike people you haven't met yet.
    Thanks a lot, Hitler.
    So I am not allowed to dislike all the cunts on Xbox Live because I have not met them yet! Fuck.
  • Dangerous_Dan 8 Sep 2013 06:25:28 2,380 posts
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    To me the term "political correctness" has lost a lot of meaning, owing to people using it to shut down further argument. Or as a cover for actual racism, as if putting "I don't want to be POLITICALLY INCORRECT, but..." before something racist actually cancels it out.
    It's the same for me...
    with the term racism
    or sexism
    or...
  • twelveways 8 Sep 2013 06:27:19 4,023 posts
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    Some of my best friends are pakis and chinks.
  • PazJohnMitch 8 Sep 2013 06:45:56 8,078 posts
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    A Pakistani girl I knew at University was trying to take the term "Paki" back. She liked the term as it was essentially a shorter more convient word than "Pakistani". She really hated white people calling her Indian in an attempt to be Politically Correct as she was not Indian.
  • PazJohnMitch 8 Sep 2013 07:27:46 8,078 posts
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    Not found anyone that is happy with the term "Chink" though. Also the suggestion that the colour "Yellow" is cowardish does not go down well in China. (Discovered that the Chinese do have the term "Chinese Whispers" but they either say Korean or Japanese instead).
  • kalel 8 Sep 2013 08:00:10 87,753 posts
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    sajasanman wrote:
    Inertia wrote:
    But why do you need to state the race? It's the behaviour that bothers you right? So criticise the behaviour, By saying the race you are also insinuating that it is common behaviour in this social group.
    True. But you do have organizations like the anti-defametion league set up just to attack any one that's anti-israel.

    But stuff like that guy in Ukip referring to foriegners as bongobongo land is something embarassing your grandad would say.
    Anti-defamation league was not set up to attack anyone anti Israel. It's about fighting anti-semitism. Many members are not zionists and officially it has no political agenda, although yes, it does admittedly fail to stay away from the subject, but then that's probably because most people struggle to seperate the issues, a bit like you just have.
  • Mola_Ram 8 Sep 2013 08:02:43 7,410 posts
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    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    To me the term "political correctness" has lost a lot of meaning, owing to people using it to shut down further argument. Or as a cover for actual racism, as if putting "I don't want to be POLITICALLY INCORRECT, but..." before something racist actually cancels it out.
    It's the same for me...
    with the term racism
    or sexism
    or...
    Well, that's sort of the point, isn't it. Misuse and overuse of the term has made it less useful in general. They've become loaded words.
  • Dangerous_Dan 8 Sep 2013 09:12:14 2,380 posts
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    Well, that's sort of the point, isn't it. Misuse and overuse of the term has made it less useful in general. They've become loaded words.
    Hm, now in general, and that's not addressed to you specifically -

    For example, I do treat women differently. Or maybe if I say I treat men differently then it sounds less severe but that's sexism, no? - So I'm a sexist. I have no problem with being a sexist, if that's the definition. I think it's stupid to NOT be sexist (if that's part of the definition). Categories are how our mind orders things. This is an apple, that's a tree. Don't eat the tree but eat the apple.

    I'm pro category, pro discrimination (that's what the word used to mean before it got hijacked). Does that mean that I hate the tree or the apple? Nope. But that's what some would suggest - if you don't think about AND treat everyone the same way. To get to the individual level, one has to be more discriminative not less. "I like Bob but I don't like Tom."

    Now if most of Tom's friends are also douchebags then I'll memorize that and act accordingly. If someone tells me that he's a friend of Tom then my first reaction will be to be very suspicious about him. If it turns out that he's alright then I'll come around - maybe.

    That kind of discrimination against Tom's friends is based on social association. Or cultural association if we are talking about a larger scale.

    I don't care if Tom had a difficult childhood. If he's a thug then I'll treat him accordingly.

    Additionally, there is a strong connection between culture and genetics.
  • Mola_Ram 8 Sep 2013 09:31:34 7,410 posts
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    Err, I think the point is to treat people based on how they act, not because of who they are. And that sort of "discrimination" isn't really the sort that people get offended about.
  • RedSparrows 8 Sep 2013 09:40:17 22,761 posts
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    You really have to qualify 'a strong connection between culture and genetics', I feel.
  • Mola_Ram 8 Sep 2013 09:47:59 7,410 posts
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    Yeah I'm not 100% sure what that post was about.
  • kalel 8 Sep 2013 09:58:44 87,753 posts
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    Oh boy.
  • morriss 8 Sep 2013 10:01:39 71,000 posts
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    Closet. Or maybe now not so much.
  • Syrette 8 Sep 2013 10:10:22 43,525 posts
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    /marks interesting

  • Mr-Brett 8 Sep 2013 10:18:06 12,799 posts
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    It makes about as much sense as his post on the previous page.

    DrStrangelove wrote:
    That's one central thing I was trying to get at. Political Correctness is a term abused by rightists to no end. Sadly, they're not entirely wrong about that matter. There is a political correctness that ignores problems. Problems, sometimes unreal but sometimes real, felt by people but are only voiced by right-wing extremists.
    I agree, it does go too far occasionally but I think RedSparrows covered this better than I could in his big rant :)


    I am concerned about the people behind the stereotypes, the actual humans. And I believe we don't do them any favour by denying actual problems, instead insisting on that there were no problems. That's not true, and people feel that. I believe that to solve problems, you have to realise them. Not just claim they didn't exist. Which is what our politically correct politicians do.

    My concern is that a) there's no solving of actual problems and b) people are driven to racist wingnuts because everyone else claims there were no problems.
    There is a real danger there yes, but you have to remember that there's a whole host of issues that politicians have to be very careful talking about. The press is always ready to throw a poorly phrased comment back in their faces and demand a resignation. So it's no surprise that they'd err on the side of caution.

    DrStrangelove wrote:
    But that's exactly what I meant. Many people here, not without reason, feel they'll be condemned as Nazis if they criticise Israeli settlement policy. I am absolutely aware that that policy doesn't represent "the Jews". I don't know if it's more or less than 50% of Jews who support the settlement policy, I suspect it's less, but the problem is: you voice your anger, you risk being defamed yourself as anti-semite. That's what some (not all!) pro-Israeli interest groups claim. You criticise Jewish settlements, you're a nazi. You can ignore those extremists of course, but they do have influence on public opinion.
    This surprised me, it's not racist or anti-semitic to disagree with the actions of a country, either you're having problems separating the will of the country's government with the entire populace or you're self-censoring way beyond what so called political correctness would deem necessary.

    Personally I think the state of israel is stubborn and antagonistic, does this mean I apply that to the entire nation's people? no, that would be silly.

    Level 37 Social Justice Warrior

  • OptimusPube 8 Sep 2013 10:24:08 3,034 posts
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    Do Americans get offended if you call them yanks?

    You better watch out.
    You better beware.
    Albert said E=MC˛

  • Dangerous_Dan 8 Sep 2013 10:28:49 2,380 posts
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    A lion has a different culture than a sheep. Sure I could train them to behave in a similar way but they'd still be a lion and a sheep respectively. Without the training, similar to a lion trainer, they'd revert back to being a lion and a sheep.

    Now with humans it's similar - without an external force, the police, they'd revert back, closer to their innate behavior which is determined by their genes. Different regions, climates and conditions formed different groups and sub-groups of people.
    That's a remnant of the past.

    In this globalized culture of one (with different kinds of restaurants, of course) slowly, the trained behavior has become similar while the genetics take a longer time.

    Behavior is based on training and the brain. The brain is part of the body and so it's part of the genetics. Most will accept that black athletes are faster runners than other races, on average but it's very rude to make claims about behavior being dependant on genetics and therefore making race a factor.

    Of course it's not the only factor, it's more like a potential, a shifted distribution.

    But it's evil to say so because it runs counter to the current ideals (ideas) of equality.

    There is no enough - equality. And for anything to be truly equal it has to be the same. And if, someone would argue - 'No, equality is not sameness.' Well, if you make everyone equal by laws, if you actively invest to make it equal then, over a long time, they will become the same.

    But turns out, life isn't about sameness and that's why this attempt of imposing equality is running out of steam. The efforts and costs of keeping things in check grow exponentially.
  • RelaxedMikki 8 Sep 2013 11:41:19 929 posts
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    @Dangerous_Dan

    I am sure we have been through this before...?

    The variance between individuals within any particular race, culture or nationality is far greater than the variance between races, cultures and nationalities. Doesn't matter how much of that variance is genetic and how much is cutural...

    i.e. some races, cultures or nationalities might tend to be taller or shorter than others. But within any single race there is a much greater range of tall and short people. To assume that everyone in a particular race, culture or nationality is going to conform to somekind of steroetype is incorrect, regardless of whether people find it tasteful or not.

    EDIT: some crappy grammar and typos fixed

    Edited by RelaxedMikki at 11:50:34 08-09-2013
  • Dangerous_Dan 8 Sep 2013 11:51:29 2,380 posts
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    To assume that everyone in a particualy race, cluture or nationality is going to conform to somekind of steroetype is incorrect, regardless of whether people find it tasteful or not.
    Who says that?
  • Rodney 8 Sep 2013 11:53:21 1,900 posts
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    Are those variances distributed differently between different groups though?
  • kalel 8 Sep 2013 12:07:35 87,753 posts
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    When someone starts implying that different races are comparable to different species, it's the point at which you realise that person is a stone cold bonafide racist. Astonishing stuff. Ridiculously ignorant and a frankly terrifying thing to read.
  • sirtacos 8 Sep 2013 12:13:07 7,280 posts
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    [youtube]watch%3Fv%3DrHLnf5H4soU[/youtube]

    Damn it Mr Sleep, you beat me to it. Still have no idea how to format these pesky youtube links

    Edited by sirtacos at 12:29:27 08-09-2013
  • Mr_Sleep 8 Sep 2013 12:17:48 17,082 posts
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    I am very surprised no one has posted the relevant Stewart Lee joke

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Dangerous_Dan 8 Sep 2013 12:23:06 2,380 posts
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    When someone starts implying that different races are comparable to different species, it's the point at which you realise that person is a stone cold bonafide racist. Astonishing stuff. Ridiculously ignorant and a frankly terrifying thing to read.
    Diversity is not your thing then.
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