Discussion: is torrenting always wrong?

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  • SamNunn92 19 Aug 2013 10:43:08 265 posts
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    Just wanted to get an idea of what the general consensus was on an issue I've been having lately. I've been on a nostalgia trip and am trying to track down some old gems to replay. The ones that I still have on disc are obviously fine and many have been re-released on Steam, GOG etc, but what about the ones that I don't have anymore or can't get? Can I (morally) torrent them? And does that differ if I've never owned the title yet it's not available to buy?

    For example, my copy of Age of Empires 1 is scratched to hell and won't read any more but I can't find it anywhere to buy new - if Ensemble/MS won't be making any money from the sale, what do they care if I torrent it?

    Alternatively, a game I played in a Japanese arcade that I've always wanted to buy (Typing of the Dead) is also not available to buy new from anywhere. If I literally can't get hold of a new copy then is torrenting still wrong?

    Just interested as to other EG'ers thoughts on things

    Edited by SamNunn92 at 10:45:24 19-08-2013
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 19 Aug 2013 10:45:14 38,880 posts
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    Torrenting is perfectly legal.
    Sharing copyrighted material is not.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • THFourteen 19 Aug 2013 10:48:16 33,929 posts
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    its a victimless crime!

    DOWNLOAD IT ALL AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRR
  • kalel 19 Aug 2013 10:49:05 88,510 posts
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    As long as you're disregarding the law, and simply asking from an ethical/moral point of view, then you can potentially justify downloading and sharing copyrighted material in quite a large number of cases.

    Doesn't really matter though. The law doesn't give a toss about your ethical justification for breaking it, and most people can sleep perfectly well at night knowing they've done something potentially unlawful as long as they've got away with it and nobody else has been overtly affected. So it's pretty much a moot question.
  • -cerberus- 19 Aug 2013 10:49:25 3,188 posts
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    I'm in the grey zone: I own a boxed retail copy of Metro 2033 which I bought at launch, full price. But I don't allow Steam on my gaming rig. So I play a cracked version. If a GOG version gets released I will buy it again, for the sake of convenience and because I fully support DRM-free software.

    Edited by -cerberus- at 11:00:57 19-08-2013

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  • spamdangled 19 Aug 2013 10:54:42 27,413 posts
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    Ah, the age-old question of what constitutes Abandonware.

    If it's something that the publisher/developer genuinely hasn't shown any intention of re-releasing, then ethically speaking I don't generally see the problem. In my mind they can't exactly complain about not getting revenue from it if they are showing no will to do so anyway. The Law is pretty absolute on the matter though.

    If we're talking about Black and White specifically, I believe it's still commercially available - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sold-Out_Software

    Edited by darkmorgado at 10:55:46 19-08-2013

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • DFawkes 19 Aug 2013 10:58:37 23,431 posts
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    I think the only game I've torrented is Halo on PC, as I bought the italian version and used my key for that on it. Still illegal, but I used my legitimately purchased key on it so it doesn't feel unethical.

    I have also torrented a few MMO clients, which is totally legal and can be a lot faster than the official sites for some of them. There was also the bonus material for The Void, which they released as a torrent.

    Edited by DFawkes at 11:03:44 19-08-2013

    Oh for goodness sake, I've caught my scrotum in my zip again - Margaret Thatcher, 1986

  • MrTomFTW Moderator 19 Aug 2013 11:07:22 38,880 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Ah, the age-old question of what constitutes Abandonware.
    Fuck all, because Abandonware is a term made up by people who want to feel better about downloading old games.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • Fake_Blood 19 Aug 2013 11:10:12 4,313 posts
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    @-cerberus- what's wrong with steam?
  • Tonka 19 Aug 2013 11:33:23 20,879 posts
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    It's the moral obligation of everyone to torrent the shit out of anything with region locking, DRM or those fucking "You wouldn't steal a car" ads at the beginning.

    My wife recently bought a bunch of Disney and Pixar DVD's from China so that our kids can watch them with Chinese audio. Did they work in our DVD-player? Hell no they didn't. Because we were foolish enough to buy original copies and not the pirated ones the peddle on every street corner. (Well no anymore since people stream nowadays)

    Thank you Disney Corp for punishing me.

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • kingcrowbar 19 Aug 2013 12:07:12 917 posts
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    TotD
    AoE

    Whether they are prices you want to pay, only you can answer but they are certainly available. That they are not available on some download service is a shame but you are not entitled to these things no matter how much you want them.
  • -cerberus- 19 Aug 2013 12:17:32 3,188 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    @-cerberus- what's wrong with steam?
    Invasive shite DRM. An nuisance that comes between me and my game.

    Take the plastic bag challenge to cure stupidity.

  • Deleted user 19 August 2013 12:24:19
  • Deleted user 19 August 2013 12:28:32
    Torrenting is always wrong.

    Surely EVERYONE uses NZBs now ?!?!
  • -cerberus- 19 Aug 2013 12:47:03 3,188 posts
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    @graysonavich The bigger picture is treating gamers as customers with respect, instead of criminals. The basic functionality of my games don't rely on a third-party program. Enter GOG. The end.

    And "little crusade", d'you have any idea how big GOG has become?

    Edited by -cerberus- at 12:48:27 19-08-2013

    Take the plastic bag challenge to cure stupidity.

  • Rodpad 19 Aug 2013 12:49:50 1,989 posts
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    Classic thread topic by a lurker to get attention - http://www.eurogamer.net/profiles/SamNunn92

    Boring done to death discussion.

    Torrenting is X because Y
    Torrenting is N because Zzzzzzzzzzzz
  • Deleted user 19 August 2013 12:55:36
    -cerberus- wrote:
    @graysonavich The bigger picture is treating gamers as customers with respect, instead of criminals. The basic functionality of my games don't rely on a third-party program. Enter GOG. The end.

    And "little crusade", d'you have any idea how big GOG has become?
    Steam doesn't treat people like criminals.
  • Benno 19 Aug 2013 12:58:40 10,110 posts
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    Post deleted
  • captainrentboy 19 Aug 2013 12:59:41 1,034 posts
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    I'm a gigantic hypocrite, when folk brag about all the 40 AAA games they've downloaded for free on their modded consoles, or they make money from selling pirated movies, I can't help but think "You scummy cunt!"

    Yet I'll quite happily download the latest US TV show to avoid waiting for it to air over here, or putting up with ad breaks, and I'll occasionally download a movie that doesn't have any UK release date in sight (Most recently Man of Tai Chi, and if they're good I do buy them when they finally show up) and attempt to justify it by thinking about the ridiculous amount of money I do spend going to the cinema each week, or topping up my ever growing Blu Ray collection.

    Although to be honest, I literally can't remember the last time I paid for a music album.

    So to sum up, torrenting content is bad, but I do it anyway. :/
  • kalel 19 Aug 2013 13:00:40 88,510 posts
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    Steam is a good example of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". It's mutually beneficial and hard to begrudge the DRM aspects given how they're handled, and the huge benefits the service broadly offers.
  • -cerberus- 19 Aug 2013 13:04:54 3,188 posts
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    @Aargh. If that were true, all of the games you bought on Steam would function without a third-party program. Sadly, they don't. The honest customer is being kept on a short leash.

    Take the plastic bag challenge to cure stupidity.

  • kalel 19 Aug 2013 13:09:08 88,510 posts
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    elmastero wrote:
    go on , torrent all you want , you have every right to.
    This is categorically, indisputably incorrect.
  • Ziz0u 19 Aug 2013 13:10:14 8,514 posts
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    People need to learn how to go without.
  • senso-ji 19 Aug 2013 13:11:13 5,972 posts
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    Torrents are such a big waste of time and effort that I'd rather wait until a steam (and others) sale to buy a game I can't afford to get on release. If developers/publishers are going to offer ridiculous discounts, I'll take advantage of those and stay guilt free.
  • -cerberus- 19 Aug 2013 13:18:48 3,188 posts
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    kalel wrote: hard to begrudge the DRM aspects given how they're handled
    Help me understand how a game becoming totally fucking useless without Steam is an acceptable form of DRM to you?

    Games do not need third-party programs to function, people.

    Take the plastic bag challenge to cure stupidity.

  • MrTomFTW Moderator 19 Aug 2013 13:22:38 38,880 posts
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    Nope, but when that third party software makes buying, installing and updating your games almost effortless and also provides benefits such as cloud saving and cheat protection... Well you're missing out, I'll just leave it at that.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • Deleted user 19 August 2013 13:22:56
    It depends how you think about it imo. I like the functionality of having a central hub that organises my programs into one searchable system.
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