Mario & Luigi: Dream Team Page 2

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  • Humperfunk 12 Jul 2013 12:42:00 1,913 posts
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    Kay wrote:
    Humperfunk wrote:
    Looking forward to putting a bit more time into the game on the bog at lunch.
    If you're on lunch, why do you have to play it on the bog?
    Because people will judge me.

    PSN & NNID: Wedjwants

  • Kay 12 Jul 2013 12:47:15 17,758 posts
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    But surely it can't be seen as more embarrassing than spending half an hour (or more) on the toilet? :)
  • GuiltySpark 12 Jul 2013 13:04:18 6,320 posts
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    "I was wanking, honest! I don't know why the Mario theme tune was playing in my stall!"

    Get bent.

  • Deleted user 12 July 2013 13:10:53
    roz123 wrote:
    Apart from Edge and Eurogamers 7s from what I can see its scoring 8s and 9s everywhere else so not bad at all. Animal Crossing is destroying my free time at the moment though so I am not going to get it yet
    Sounds mediocre TBH.

    Maybe nintendos reality distortion effect is starting to fail.
  • neilka 12 Jul 2013 13:19:03 15,623 posts
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    But if you ignore all the scores below an 8 then it sounds great!
  • captain_markyboy 12 Jul 2013 13:39:16 250 posts
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    It really deserves an 8 or even a 9 in my opinion so far.....

    I'm 3 hours in, and it's just getting better and better. Certainly as good as any of the others in the series, and I've got them all.

    It's keeping me from playing animal crossing, and Ive played that every day since I got it on day 1.
  • captain_markyboy 12 Jul 2013 13:40:49 250 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    roz123 wrote:
    Apart from Edge and Eurogamers 7s from what I can see its scoring 8s and 9s everywhere else so not bad at all. Animal Crossing is destroying my free time at the moment though so I am not going to get it yet
    Sounds mediocre TBH.

    Maybe nintendos reality distortion effect is starting to fail.

    Can't see how 7s,8s and 9s are mediocre? Well above average scores surely?
  • zoolophage 12 Jul 2013 14:02:19 1,576 posts
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    Well, any score of less than 7, to my mind, means that a game has serious issues of one type or another. And that's because of how reviewers use scores.Many games are probably over rated these days, with a few being under rated (Edge review of LCU, for example). If average games were given more 5s then review scores may be more meaningful, if you see what I mean.

    3DS: 2019-9957-3472

  • captain_markyboy 12 Jul 2013 14:19:21 250 posts
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    zoolophage wrote:
    Well, any score of less than 7, to my mind, means that a game has serious issues of one type or another. And that's because of how reviewers use scores.Many games are probably over rated these days, with a few being under rated (Edge review of LCU, for example). If average games were given more 5s then review scores may be more meaningful, if you see what I mean.
    Fair point.
    I really don't see this as mediocre or average at all. I suppose a 7 is fair. I would have given it more, but it's just someones opinion I suppose.
  • zoolophage 12 Jul 2013 14:28:37 1,576 posts
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    Exactly. If you're enjoying it that's all that matters.

    3DS: 2019-9957-3472

  • JinTypeNoir 12 Jul 2013 16:09:37 4,365 posts
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    Also, the review is written by Simon Parkin -- who along with Dan Whitehead, are the only two writers who have yet to write anything on this site that resembles intelligent thought. Everyone has their own opinion is one to look at it (its a fair bet Edge's 7 probably has a better written and thought out perspective), but whenever Parkin is involved, you can always count on something truly idiotic, along with a smattering of factual errors that show how sloppy he is.

    Edited by JinTypeNoir at 16:09:58 12-07-2013
  • kinky_mong 12 Jul 2013 16:15:40 9,944 posts
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    JinTypeNoir wrote:
    Also, the review is written by Simon Parkin -- who along with Dan Whitehead, are the only two writers who have yet to write anything on this site that resembles intelligent thought.
    Meee-ooow!

    I'll never get my Orc looking the same again.

  • voden 12 Jul 2013 16:32:46 65 posts
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    I have spent about 8 hours with this since getting it yesterday and a 7 seems a bit low to me. I would give it a 9 so far. I haven't played any other games in the series though so it's a new experience. Perhaps I wouldn't feel the same if I had played the others.

    Really enjoying it though the combat is a lot of fun. The exploration is nice too with some hints of Zelda.
  • JinTypeNoir 12 Jul 2013 17:05:49 4,365 posts
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    Scratch what I said about Edge. I just read it and while it doesn't have any of the truly horrendous writing Parkin likes to vomit into cyberspace (better editor?) they sound like they are written by the same incompetent writer. In fact, both reviews demonstrate a pet peeve I have about some of the game reviewers that stick around these days: they offer criticism that sounds no better than a high school paper dashed out in the morning because you forgot to do it last night while you were masturbating to midget porn.

    One of the Edge reviewer's complaints is that Bowser and Fawful are a lot more compelling than the new villain. Instead of getting an explication of this, its just left at that. Much better to give us an idea WHAT is unappealing about the new character compared to the others, instead of charming "2 + 2 = score!" type of writing, "I did not like Antasma as much because of writing reasons!" Good for you, C-.

    Parkin's review, on the other hand, has a little section of praise about how the timed-base commands give it a different feel than other Japanese RPGs. Truly insight for the ages, here. It's not like the past, oh, 8 or so Mario RPGs didn't have that too. Or Shadow Hearts. Or Valkyrie Profile. Or Xenoblade. Or Lost Odyssey. Or many a Final Fantasy. It's not like that mechanic hasn't been around for nearly 20 years. Can we find something new to say? Something perhaps helpful? An exposition sentence enumerating something for people new to the series is fine -- but it practically commands that you then elaborate on how it is unique if there are all sorts of stuff that is similar to it. Simon is the one who always gets the Japanese RPG review assignments here. He should know this. It is helpful to hardly anyone anymore to say "Mario RPG shave timing-based battle systems and that makes them stand out." What's different about Dream Team compared to the other games?

    The reason I always take these reviews to task in such detail is because I can't stand bad gaming criticism anywhere -- but I'm not able to detect it as well in reviews for say, The Last of Us, or the latest Call of Duty, because I'm not at all familiar with a great deal of the tropes and conventions of those games, so even I could detect lazy writing (Parkin's first paragraph is so bad that even I had no idea about Mario & Luigi RPGs I would circle in red pen and write "No, no, no. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Go back to 7th grade. Were you drunk?" ), I couldn't accurately connect it with lazy criticism due to a general lack of knowledge to back me up.

    However, everyone here knows that I play tons of RPGs, so I tend to focus my comments on this forum to RPGs. But if you're thinking I only ever pick on Simon because I'm so in love with my RPGs and he dared criticize them, think again. I want better criticism that leads to better evaluation that may lead to creators getting better feedback which may lead to better games. At the very least, I want an elevation on the standard of games discourse.

    There are probably going to be more 7s for Mario & Luigi. Who cares? Its inevitable that even if, 10 years from now, when people are writing retrospectives people find it to be the Yoshi's Island level of brilliant, some people will still find it underwhelming. Its just proof that no matter how brilliant something is, nothing can please everyone. There are probably lots of dumb positive reviews of it too (there's a 5/5 review of Shin Megami Tensei IV on USGamer that is so appallingly dumb the writer should be arrested for crimes against human thought).

    I'm just really tired of lazy reviewers and a culture of gamers who resort to "You're just butthurt" when these reviewers get criticized.

    Edited by JinTypeNoir at 17:06:18 12-07-2013
  • Kay 12 Jul 2013 17:19:48 17,758 posts
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    JinTypeNoir wrote:
    One of the Edge reviewer's complaints is that Bowser and Fawful are a lot more compelling than the new villain. Instead of getting an explication of this, its just left at that. Much better to give us an idea WHAT is unappealing about the new character compared to the others, instead of charming "2 + 2 = score!" type of writing, "I did not like Antasma as much because of writing reasons!" Good for you, C-.
    That's Edge's style, though - they'll always tell you what's good and what's bad about the game without going into too much detail. Which is how it should be for a review, imo, although others may disagree. Stuff like "this character isn't as compelling because etc." is best left for a retrospective, and not the sort of thing I want to be reading for a game I haven't yet played.

    I'm sure many will say that that's exactly the sort of thing that a review should be discussing, but it's difficult to critique a game properly without hindsight, and especially not when you have to rush a review for release date.
  • RyanDS 12 Jul 2013 17:27:09 9,052 posts
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    @JinTypeNoir someone is a bit butthurt...
  • JinTypeNoir 12 Jul 2013 17:48:54 4,365 posts
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    Kay wrote:
    JinTypeNoir wrote:
    One of the Edge reviewer's complaints is that Bowser and Fawful are a lot more compelling than the new villain. Instead of getting an explication of this, its just left at that. Much better to give us an idea WHAT is unappealing about the new character compared to the others, instead of charming "2 + 2 = score!" type of writing, "I did not like Antasma as much because of writing reasons!" Good for you, C-.
    That's Edge's style, though - they'll always tell you what's good and what's bad about the game without going into too much detail. Which is how it should be for a review, imo, although others may disagree. Stuff like "this character isn't as compelling because etc." is best left for a retrospective, and not the sort of thing I want to be reading for a game I haven't yet played.

    I'm sure many will say that that's exactly the sort of thing that a review should be discussing, but it's difficult to critique a game properly without hindsight, and especially not when you have to rush a review for release date.
    I'm not talking about detail. I'm talking about picking the wrong details and writing about them in the wrong way.

    Let me give you an example of what I mean by picking another review of a sequel that compares it past games written for the magazine -- meaning it had a strict word count and was of similar length. I pick Final Fantasy XII, written in 2007:

    "Final Fantasy games (the revered VII in particular) tend to hang on their plots, but XII's, acted out in muted voices and formal language, is more peripheral. It works best as part of the incredibly rich tapestry of background colour in the world of Ivalice, in tandem with the stunning production design."

    Now here's the Mario & Luigi snippet:

    "The Piíillosí dialogue is typically a snoozefest, and itís really only when Bowser shows up with his elite team that the jokes start to hit home, a maddening five to six hours in. Oh, and new baddie Antasma is a poor substitute for Fawful screen time in this or any other world."

    Around the same amount of words (around 50), much better communication of a stronger and richer perspective in the Final Fantasy XII review. The Mario stuff is the Pi'illos' aren't generally amusing and the new villian isn't as good as the old ones. The Final Fantasy stuff tells you that while plots are important to Final Fantasy games, XII's is good only in context with the other elements, what those elements are and why it works better that way than the conventional way. There really should be something similar, like for instance, "Nintendo aims for another funny dialect for the Pi'illos', but the effect comes off as trying too hard. Similarly, Antasma is all typical megalomaniacal villain bluffing compared to Bowser's rough and tumble nature or Fawful's bizarre logic." I don't know why he thought that about the NPCs or the villain, but if I'm reading review, devote your precious words to the why instead. I get that why and a very succinct, intriguing idea of what the plot meant to the author in the Final Fantasy XII case.

    That's what criticism should aspire to, no matter the word count. Economical writing can also involve good details.

    Edited by JinTypeNoir at 17:50:08 12-07-2013
  • captain_markyboy 12 Jul 2013 19:58:34 250 posts
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    Christ! That was a long winded response..... I switched off after The first paragraph.
  • Deleted user 15 July 2013 11:50:31
    Is there any point in this game when your not getting told what to do?

    While there is some genuinely inspired stuff going on, the flow of the game is seriously hampered by constant, long winded explanations of every new mechanic you run into. There is even times where puzzle solutions are pointed out to you :/
  • neilka 15 Jul 2013 12:25:15 15,623 posts
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    Please understand, that is "the Nintendo magic".
  • Deleted user 15 July 2013 12:59:25
    + it's Japanese who channel the gods when they give birth to their games.
  • Singularity 15 Jul 2013 13:39:13 2,434 posts
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    I'm five hours in now, and I'm loving it. First thing to drag me away from Animal Crossing.
  • captain_markyboy 15 Jul 2013 13:51:37 250 posts
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    Singularity wrote:
    I'm five hours in now, and I'm loving it. First thing to drag me away from Animal Crossing.
    Same here. My C town is severely neglected.
  • Deleted user 16 July 2013 15:38:15
    The soundtrack is fantastic btw, Mushrise Park being my favourite theme so far, it has a certain Xenoblade vibe to it when it kicks in!

  • captain_markyboy 22 Jul 2013 14:04:17 250 posts
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    Dozin sands is a bit confusing......getting a bit stuck now.
  • Wavey 24 Jul 2013 19:57:19 353 posts
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    So updated impressions? I'm on the fence. I've got alot of reward points and can get the download code from game online. I'm hankering for a rpg!
  • addyb 25 Jul 2013 00:39:54 1,019 posts
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    Got this at launch but its still sealed. No idea when I will get round to playing it.
  • neilka 25 Jul 2013 00:46:11 15,623 posts
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    IS BEEF!!!

    (Buy it!)
  • Sessile 26 Jul 2013 10:31:57 24 posts
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    Greatly enjoying it, 9 hours in. It's the only game prying me out of my ACNL town. It keeps throwing new things at me, every half hour there's a new mechanic - but the old ones are still in play too, they're not one-shot. The writing is what you'd expect from a Mario RPG - decent, often actively funny. It's perhaps a little heavy on scripted sequences for cutscenes, but it's no MGS!

    There are a couple of UI niggles; getting to the items (outside of battles) is a trifle cumbersome, and triggering badge effects in battles often takes me a couple of goes - I've not internalised that I need to tap the badge twice, since there's no feedback after the first tap. The level map hides when you're in dream country in preference of a closeup of Luigi's face that's only useful sometimes. None of these are at all serious.

    So far I'd say it's better than Bowser's Inside Story, but not quite as good as Partners In Time as it's not tied together so tightly by story. Definitely better than RPG1 which I never bothered to finish.
  • ChillDude 26 Jul 2013 10:55:57 34 posts
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    Really fancy this but bought Pikmin 3 instead. How do you guys compare this to Bowser's inside story? I really enjoyed that game especially the gameplay and humour.

    PS thanks for your thoughts Sessile :)

    Edited by ChillDude at 10:56:52 26-07-2013
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