Pro Evolution Soccer 2014 Page 27

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  • Deleted user 1 October 2013 21:01:33
    @FuzzyDuck

    I still haven't experienced any unexpected goalkeeper behaviour in the game (only playing offline) while using the follow settings with United's keeper Dea Gea.

    I've also managed to eliminate the game playing itself at times (like old PES) by using these three settings.

    Support settings:

    ...

    Auto-feint: OFF
    Auto Sliding: []OFF
    Teammate Controls:Manual
    Is it possible you are manually switching to control the goalkeeper (using L1 + R3) by accident at an in opportune time when the strike occurs?

    I find that I largely marshal the opposition striker all the way until the point of the shot and immediately use L-stick plus combinations of triangle, circle and square at the very last second to make some amazing saves. But then I've did this in every version of PES since Iss Pro evo on PS1 and always thought the “keepers are shit” criticism came from the EA Fifa shills (that also say the “animation is terrible”) or people that don't understand the link between defender and goalkeeper actions in real football and by extension PES' simulation of the game.

    Are you sure you are good at defending(marshalling, ball pressing) and using the goalkeeper in PES games?

    Edited by vizzini at 21:02:13 01-10-2013
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 1 Oct 2013 21:25:33 6,654 posts
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    To paraphrase, are you sure it's not that you're wank at the game?
  • Deleted user 1 October 2013 22:11:21
    @bitch_tits_zero_nine

    Not really. People can be good at the game; just better at attacking than defending or vice versa. I've always been able to defend well in the game, and varied with ability to score, since the game changed quite a bit around Winning Eleven 4 or 5 iirc.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 1 Oct 2013 22:12:30 6,654 posts
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    I'm just fucking with you :D
  • FuzzyDuck 2 Oct 2013 02:02:08 4,139 posts
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    L1 and R3 are too odd of a combination of buttons for me to be hitting without realising it. I've been playing on console since 1992 and my two main consoles this last decade have been the PS2 and PS3. With the exception of using an SLS Saturn pad for 2D fighters, the Dualshock 3 is the only controller I use with the PS3 and I seem to be one of the few who prefer it over the 360 pad, so I'm pretty comfortable with it.

    I've played more PES (during the PS2 era) than I've had hot dinners; any tournament I've ever won on it (and there were lots) involved a lot of 1-0 wins as I'm cautions going forward, and a defensive player. I also used to played in goals for years for a local team, so I understand exactly how defence and keepers interact :rolleyes:

    It's this kind of nonsense that I'm seeing almost every game that spoils it:



    And in this video (first, the keeper's initial positioning, second, the way he palms the ball into his own net). EDIT - looks like you can't post a video at a specific time, so skip to 2:58 or so and watch that sequence.



    Edited by FuzzyDuck at 02:03:37 02-10-2013
  • LastAngryMan 2 Oct 2013 06:36:11 35 posts
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    @FuzzyDuck I haven't seen anything as bad as the first example. And that's with the default Master League goalkeeper. The second one, I've seen similar from near post shots but not as bad. Feels like I see a goal that the keeper could have done better at once every 5-10 games or so.

    As an aside: does anyone know if the player development graph is hiding somewhere in Master League? All I can see is development status (Still Improving etc.) But without the graph or any post match feedback its hard to tell who is improving and how.

    Still enjoying this game but think I may bump up to Top Player soon, seem to be winning too many games with the default Master League players! Rustwyth (sic.) is a goal machine.
  • killersrquiet 2 Oct 2013 10:45:37 2,007 posts
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    I had 3 even worse howlers in my very first game of the demo. Thats how i knew the keepers were crap as pants... like always
  • Deleted user 2 October 2013 11:19:32
    @FuzzyDuck

    Looking at both of those I can see why you are complaining, but you had options to save both that aren't the games fault.

    The first one looks like your goalkeeping input reaction was too early or with the wrong l-stick button combination. But even still, at that range and power 1 in 10 should result in a goal even if palmed with a strong hand, the direction is crucial.

    The second video a 2:54 is likely the by product of the last three support options I last mentioned, and a lack of holding x to close down the near post. By why didn't you take full control of your keeper holding square and pressing L1 + R3 to close the near post? Or run the defender to close the far post to force the keeper near side? Yet again though, balotteli has hit the ball from close range with some power.

    When you said goalkeeping howlers, I thought we were talking trickling on the ground moments like Gary Neville, Paul Robinson pass back pitch problems. I'm confident I would have saved at least one of those and don't agree that either are problems of the game.
  • LastAngryMan 2 Oct 2013 12:37:58 35 posts
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    vizzini wrote:
    @FuzzyDuck
    ...The first one looks like your goalkeeping input reaction was too early or with the wrong l-stick button combination.

    ... By why didn't you take full control of your keeper holding square and pressing L1 + R3 to close the near post? Or run the defender to close the far post to force the keeper near side?
    I think you're making a rather big assumption that most people use or are prepared to use manual goalkeeping controls.
  • FuzzyDuck 2 Oct 2013 12:57:07 4,139 posts
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    LastAngryMan wrote:
    vizzini wrote:
    @FuzzyDuck
    ...The first one looks like your goalkeeping input reaction was too early or with the wrong l-stick button combination.

    ... By why didn't you take full control of your keeper holding square and pressing L1 + R3 to close the near post? Or run the defender to close the far post to force the keeper near side?
    I think you're making a rather big assumption that most people use or are prepared to use manual goalkeeping controls.
    This x 1,000.

    I've NEVER played a sports game with a manually controlled goal tender... so why is the A.I. so laughably poor in this that I'm forced to do so?

    And for what it's worth, they're not my own videos, I just typed in something like "crap PES 2014 keepers".

    A quick Google reveals there's a lot of complaints about the keepers, so why try to make out people are shit at the game?
  • Deleted user 2 October 2013 13:10:25
    @LastAngryMan

    But the chances taken were hardly novice strikes. I'm pretty sure if you check prozone stats of shots from that range at that power you will see that the game is consistent with the real game of football; except when the defending player indirectly manipulates their own goal keeper AI (via defender movement) or split second reacts (correctly) or takes full manual control of the situation.

    The “PES goalkeepers are shit” routine has been the hallmark of players failing to acknowledge that real football is a “funny old game”, be self critical of their own defensive tactics or the Fifa viral anti-marketing (by players) to bad mouth the competition. It has been a baseless criticism for years that is wearing thin imo.
  • LastAngryMan 2 Oct 2013 19:38:15 35 posts
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    vizzini wrote:
    @LastAngryMan

    But the chances taken were hardly novice strikes. I'm pretty sure if you check prozone stats of shots from that range at that power you will see that the game is consistent with the real game of football; except when the defending player indirectly manipulates their own goal keeper AI (via defender movement) or split second reacts (correctly) or takes full manual control of the situation.
    That's true. But I don't think that "why didn't you use the manual controls?" is a fair response to someone that has an issue with those clips. The keepers could definitely be better, manual controls shouldn't be needed to make the goal keepers acceptable - no football game I'm aware of has worked this way. For what its worth, I can tolerate the keepers at the moment, they don't break the game for me.
  • LastAngryMan 2 Oct 2013 19:41:58 35 posts
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    On the other hand, the last FIFA I put any decent single player time in to was 10, and the keepers were total beasts in that. So many one on ones missed, full power shots to the corner from 10 yards out would be easily saved! It become so frustrating, would take 20+ shots to get a goal.

    Definitely prefer the PES 2014 goal keepers to that. I guess its all about balance.
  • Deleted user 2 October 2013 21:27:16
    @LastAngryMan

    I do agree on that front when playing on “normal” difficulty, but FuzzyDuck is playing on “Top Top Player”. Is the game really supposed to have option menu AI to detect user our typical hyperbole as gamers?

    But taking the topic more seriously, and with an apology to FuzzyDuck (if I seem a little heavy handed in my comments in his direction). I rarely use manual control of the goalkeeper and tend to focus more on picking a defender (with L1) near the keeper, so the keeper's actions are asymmetric mirror of the defender. Whether that is putting a defender to ground in an open pitch space (in line of a shot) for a block tackle or just marshalling I tend to find the game and goalkeepers are second to none.
  • LionheartDJH 3 Oct 2013 08:48:14 19,460 posts
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    @FuzzyDuck Just for future reference you can link to a specific part of a YT video: just add "&t=XXmXXs" to the video link, so yours would be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxWezgbmus&t=2m58s

    Or alternatively just use this site which does it for you.

    She dives for cheese pasties

  • FuzzyDuck 3 Oct 2013 08:57:36 4,139 posts
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    @LionheartDJH

    Ta mate!

    I had tried using the addition of "&t=xxmxxs" to the video on the page, it didn't work and was just quicker to leave as it was than go back to Youtube! (although I could've just hit ctrl+shit+T to bring the vid back up after I closed it, so my 'lazy' way round was actually slower :D!)
  • Deleted user 3 October 2013 09:09:02
    Back in the day of PC pes4, then xb360 pes5 & 6 I always loved the feeling of skipping past players using skill rather than pace. Can you still do this is modern pes?

    Just downloading the demo.. Is there a preference for platforms? PS3/360 owner.
  • FuzzyDuck 3 Oct 2013 09:37:15 4,139 posts
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    @-2013-

    I'm using some of my old PES moves with the slower Master League playersto get past defenders, and while you can sprint past them with fast players, it's pretty fair in that you have to look for and make that opening to run, and if you just charge at a defender they will get a good tackle in.

    I opted for the PS3 version because of free online (and PES feels at home to me on the Dualshock)- if like my old beast of a consoles, your disc drive is a bit loud, there's a full optional install that lets it run nice and quietly and I believe it's a bit easier to get edit files transferred to the PS3. I've read nothing about any major difference between the two console versions.
  • LastAngryMan 3 Oct 2013 12:56:59 35 posts
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    @-2013- Yes, especially so in 2014 I think. Player movement and momentum plays a huge part in beating your man, you don't need to be fast just change direction at the right moment. Kind of related, one thing PES 2014 does very well I think is modelling player physicality - one of the first things I noticed in the demo was how hard it is to win the ball back from a player once he is goal-side. You can't just sprint through the back of people.
  • THFourteen 3 Oct 2013 13:39:07 33,439 posts
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    I can't work out any skill moves on this.

    No matter what I do with the right stick, nothing happens.
  • dunny 3 Oct 2013 13:47:38 445 posts
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    Try this: moving left to right.

    Push the left stick right to move in that direction. Let go of that stick so that it returns to the central position, then quickly move the right stick up. Then left stick right again to continue the run.

    You should do a stepover move thing. Took me a while to master too, but can do it most times now.
  • Cannon_Fodder 3 Oct 2013 13:52:08 219 posts
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    @THFourteen Press the right stick in when not moving to fast to do a rainbow flick.

    Not all that handy in most situations when you're surrounded, but it's a good one when you're facing off with the last defender. It nearly always catches them out if you do it at the right time.

    Twitch TV: http://twitch.tv/drunk_geordie

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  • THFourteen 3 Oct 2013 13:55:30 33,439 posts
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    @dunny

    I have to let go left stick, then press right stick, then press left stick again! now i understand

    why make it so complicated? in FIFA i could move both right and left sticks at the same time
  • Deleted user 3 October 2013 13:56:12
    Thanks guys. Looking forward to giving this a bash in a bit.
  • Deleted user 3 October 2013 14:08:53
    .

    Oops :)

    Edited by -2013- at 14:17:03 03-10-2013
  • imamazed 3 Oct 2013 14:09:24 5,621 posts
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    Still no PC demo?
  • binky Moderator 3 Oct 2013 14:12:18 9,633 posts
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    So almost inevitably all my friends poo-pooed the PES demo and have all gone FIFA14. This is cool and groovy I guess (especially as I've been sent a copy of F14) and because Pro Clubs is awesome fun with 3+ players but it does mean that I'm going to be left out in the cold with PES.

    I'm not going to have time to play 2 football games and they really are at their best when playing with friends, as we all know.

    Hope they Konami start to sort out their netcode in the next gen as that alone might pull a few more FIFA players over. As much as I think PES is brilliant fun solo this year, it's not as fun as playing with my friends on FIFA.

    *sad-face*

    (stoopid friends... grumble grumble)
  • Deleted user 3 October 2013 14:55:05
    @THFourteen

    I've found starting with L-stick movement with a little R2 works better for ball position and tricking reliably. Also, if you struggle to get away after the trick, try using R1 x2 (double tap) when using L-stick direction (after the r-stick input), this will give a big speed boost into space.

    To be fair, this is the only really big flaw in the new version of the game; which is brilliant for local multiplayer. But they really need a much bigger (and in-depth) tutorial system for all the feints/tricks to get people using them as second nature.
  • Deleted user 3 October 2013 15:16:56
    How good is this compared to ISS 64? Surely not as good :cool:
  • THFourteen 3 Oct 2013 18:46:40 33,439 posts
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    @vizzini

    Thanks! I use the double tap sprint thing a lot, because it always does what I expect. Inevitably the second tap always results in me losing the ball though.

    Need more practice, but practice means playing games and I don't like losing games so I never practice during them haha.
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