Regarding Steam and the article "Microsoft kills game ownership and expects us to smile" Page 4

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  • Bremenacht 7 Jun 2013 16:26:51 17,600 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    Bremenacht wrote:
    Headline-grabbing sale items on XBL or PSN don't make those services comparable with the likes of Steam though, where 'bargains' are routine.
    Routine = 3 sales a year?
    Are you talking about XBL or PSN? Seems like something is on sale every day on Steam and the other demand sites. There is rarely anything of equivalence on XBL/PSN.

    or what Andy said.

    Edited by Bremenacht at 16:27:29 07-06-2013
  • TheSaint 7 Jun 2013 16:39:39 14,199 posts
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    I like Steam but I very rarely buy games from there outside of the three annual sales. Sure they have the daily deals and a few weekend sales here and there but they tend to just be the same few games repeated every few months along with indie games nobody has ever heard of. I hate to think how many times company of heroes, GTA, Metro, Defence Grid and the like have been on sale in the last year.

    PSN don't have the daily deals but they tend to have fairly frequent sales (one or two a month I'd say) with a good variety of PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP and Vita games doing the rounds.

    Don't XBox also have a few games on sale every week?
  • Bremenacht 7 Jun 2013 16:57:31 17,600 posts
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    Xbox 'sales' strain most people's definition of 'sale'. PSN have had the odd cracker (I bought ICO/SotC), but nothing compared to Steam, or Steam's on-line competitors.
  • sanctusmortis 8 Jun 2013 22:08:52 9,627 posts
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    XBL's had some good 50-66% off sales lately; nothing on Steam's >75% off in the big sales, though.
  • PenguinJim 9 Jun 2013 04:03:42 5,754 posts
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    Split/Second 400MSP. \o/

    Prince of Persia: Warrior Within 320MSP. \o/

    Max Payne 3 400MSP. \o/

    However much Alan Wake was (160MSP?). \o/

    And a couple of others, but generally so few and far between that I can name most of them off the top of my head. :mad:

    It'll probably be different on the One when "Games on Demand" (AKA One games) will be in retailers as well, and I could even see them moving to places like Amazon's Download Store (already a few XBLA games on there) or even Gamersgate, so it's not really a fair comparison. Just look at the prices of Games on Demand games with physical manifestations today - already we get games like Skyrim for a fiver.
  • Khanivor 9 Jun 2013 04:47:37 40,380 posts
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    I wonder if the One will only allow games to be downloaded from the Xbox Marketplace or if the kowtowing to publisher's demands will allow you to log into other services and download from there.

    If there happens to be competition then things will be even sweeter. I'd be surprised if EA hasn't at least thought of bringing Origin to the One/PS4.
  • UncleLou Moderator 9 Jun 2013 07:22:48 35,423 posts
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    Rhythm wrote:
    @mowgli But your ability to play "Steam" games is more luck than planning. It just so happens that the underlying platform (Windows) is still compatible with games that were coded for versions 18 years older (just about) but Valve/Steam won't (and couldn't ever) guarantee that things will work with every forthcoming version of Windows.
    That doesn't have anything to do with Steam though, it's a general PC gaming "risk".
  • CaptainKerbal 9 Jun 2013 09:00:43 357 posts
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    Except that nearly any games worth playing on Steam, or PC in general, has a community that, if it doesn't work on the latest OS, sets about finding how to make it work and rarely fails.

    One of the real problems, and this is being missed in most comments, is that Steam is not currently trying to sell a console on the back of it's service. It will, in the future, but it's not likely going to be a pc that will only work with Steam.

    Microsoft's challenge, which I say now is going to fail and die a slow painful death unless they change direction, is to sell a 500 box with 70 games, with draconic DRM, whilst its core markets are still in economic recession, whilst convincing retailers its really a good thing so they don't stab it in the back. In the face of a market that has gotten used to massive price discounts on hardware and being able to sell on a game they dislike, or at least return it to the store for some kind of exchange.

    A side effect of Xbox One's handling of games is you can all wave goodbye to being able to return even a sealed game to a retailer as even a fault with a disc can just be corrected by the game installing the missing part. It would be easy to see how, depending on the install procedure, certain online retailers just sell you the code and then you download it. Xbox One owners will enjoy those 30gb+ downloads..... makes even the worst Steam downloads quite manageable.
  • TarickStonefire 9 Jun 2013 09:19:01 2,897 posts
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    @CaptainKerbal where do you get the 500 box and 70 game prices from? Also not sure how you're able to state with certainty that statutory customer rights to return unopened purchases will end.

    It all seems like speculation that supports a point of view rather than a reasoned argument.

    Edited by TarickStonefire at 09:21:14 09-06-2013

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • BAM! 9 Jun 2013 09:37:52 33 posts
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    Aretak wrote:
    Yes.

    Now fuck off.
    What a lovely community this is.
  • CaptainKerbal 9 Jun 2013 10:29:41 357 posts
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    @TarickStonefire

    Reasoned guesswork.

    500 ? The RRP of a 320gb, albeit with two controllers and a game, is 299.99 when the last one came out @ Game for Gears of War 3. That's a current gen console in mass production in an established market with proven demand, and a 320gb hard drive and 7 year old components in terms of technology.

    The RRP of a new Kinect sensor is currently still 129.99. Again we are talking old technology in mass production.

    299.99+129.99=429.98

    Now, of course, that is RRP, which neither of my examples are sold for right now, but that is because of Microsoft, via distributors, giving 20-30% off the cost price of most first party stuff, so that is being pass along in most cases by the retailers as they fight for the back end of the current market.

    New consoles, as we have seen with the Wii U, rarely get sold below RRP at launch for at least a few months, and even then the price difference to the RRP only drops a lot if the console is in trouble, as seen with the early days of the 3DS, Wii U, PS3. It took ages for a 360 real term price drop as the price stayed high but you got more for your money like games etc

    Xbox One is current generation pc tech, with a 500gb hd, with a more advanced controller, with the new HD Kinect sensor, and a massive online infrastructure to support it. It's not going to be under 499.99.

    Games ? RRP wise we are already at 54.99 for current gen with some stuff climbing higher for various special editions (ultimate team rrp 59.99) and online stuff like Battlefield 4 deluxe via Origin is 54.99. Look at Wii U games on launch, even something months old like Monster Hunter is not much below 40, and at launch it was everything from 40-50 most places, and that's for a DVD title which was a port. Online and at most retailers that are not GAME, I think we will see them about 59.99, but the RRP will be 70 IMO. Whether preowned is supported or not will make zero difference to lower pricing, it's absence will actually just keep prices high - no cheap copies, less sales, less retailers.

    As far as unopened purchases, well all that has to happen is to change the terms of the item being sold. Once it becomes a digital copy with a physical backup provided for free then it's quite easy as long as the retailer states so clearly before purchase. You're wrong to begin with in thinking that a consumer who hasn't bought online even has a right to return an item that is not faulty, and if full game downloads via the code become a reality then any argument a consumer could make up about a faulty disc becomes irrelevant as the console will just correct that with a download. As far as distance selling regulations go, UK trading standards actually states on their site that, as long as the retailer states it, digital codes are excluded from distance selling regulations.

    If you were an online retailer, currently being battered by rising costs, rising delivery costs etc, and Xbox One offers the chance to just sell codes, and eliminate many costs....what would you do ?

    So, there is my reasoning. Microsoft isn't killing gaming, it's in danger of killing itself in the videogame market and taking large chunks of the industry with it. Can Sony resist the urge to ride in and save the day ? Because if the worst aspects of Xbox One come to pass, say good bye to videogames ever getting to the point this generation reached for decades.
  • altitude2k 9 Jun 2013 10:35:33 3,750 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    I wonder if the One will only allow games to be downloaded from the Xbox Marketplace or if the kowtowing to publisher's demands will allow you to log into other services and download from there.

    If there happens to be competition then things will be even sweeter. I'd be surprised if EA hasn't at least thought of bringing Origin to the One/PS4.
    I'm guessing that they will only be downloadable from XBL, but the licence can be bought from any retailer.
  • wogsy81 9 Jun 2013 10:52:49 717 posts
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    BAM! wrote:
    Aretak wrote:
    Yes.

    Now fuck off.
    What a lovely community this is.
    Thats actually a pretty funny comment actually.
    There are 2 things you need to enjoy the eurogamer forums to their fullest. A thick skin and a sense of humour.

    It seems you have neither.
  • DrStrangelove 9 Jun 2013 12:10:19 3,369 posts
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    cunts
  • RobTheBuilder 9 Jun 2013 12:40:57 6,521 posts
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    CaptainKerbal wrote:

    Xbox One is current generation pc tech, with a 500gb hd, with a more advanced controller, with the new HD Kinect sensor, and a massive online infrastructure to support it. It's not going to be under 499.99.
    Yeah I think you might look back on this comment as a bit silly.
  • Syrette 9 Jun 2013 14:14:32 43,062 posts
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    wogsy81 wrote:
    BAM! wrote:
    Aretak wrote:
    Yes.

    Now fuck off.
    What a lovely community this is.
    Thats actually a pretty funny comment actually.
    There are 2 things you need to enjoy the eurogamer forums to their fullest. A thick skin and a sense of humour.

    It seems you have neither.
    You're a prick, m8.

  • sanctusmortis 9 Jun 2013 18:11:41 9,627 posts
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    This whole site's turned into the typical New Generation shit show. People arguing about unconfirmed stuff, calls for bans and boycotts, name-calling, insults, fanboy wars, fanboys calling people fanboys...
  • RobTheBuilder 9 Jun 2013 18:18:23 6,521 posts
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    People have got seven years of new gen frustration stored up it seems!
  • morriss 9 Jun 2013 18:28:53 70,911 posts
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    ..and even with all this going against it, the Xbox One will still be better than the PS3.
  • RobTheBuilder 9 Jun 2013 18:46:30 6,521 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    ..and even with all this going against it, the Xbox One will still be better than the PS3.
    You KNOW this, even before games, pricing, release dates, drm or real world performance have been fully announced?
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 9 Jun 2013 18:52:17 37,318 posts
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    He knows. Trust in morriss.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • skuzzbag 9 Jun 2013 18:56:52 5,636 posts
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    But my dads Morriss Marina rusted to fuck.
  • Whizzo 9 Jun 2013 19:04:13 43,033 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    ..and even with all this going against it, the Xbox One will still be better than the PS3.
    Better than the PS3? Well it's a lot newer and has much better specs so it's not too difficult to make that assumption.

    Better than the PS4? Doesn't look likely from what we know so far.

    This space left intentionally blank.

  • Syrette 9 Jun 2013 19:54:26 43,062 posts
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    morriss is on the wind-up.

  • DrStrangelove 9 Jun 2013 21:41:47 3,369 posts
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    How can you say the XBone will be better if we're still months away of getting them in our hands?

    Besides, the PS4 will be better.
  • dsmx 9 Jun 2013 22:24:33 7,555 posts
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    Price wise it will probably be pretty close between the 2, but I can't see the XBone being cheaper than the PS4 simply because of kinect.

    Sony will probably end up pricing the PS4 less than the One and I can see the cost of making the PS4 dropping quicker simply because it appears to have the simpler design overall. Things may be different when we finally get to see them both in the flesh but if everything we have heard so far is true sony could genuinely have a real winner so long as they don't fuck it up.

    Lets face it since the PSN hack sony have had a massive culture shift and have really got themselves together on most fronts.

    "If we hit that bullseye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a a house of cards, checkmate." Zapp Brannigan

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